? Re: Campagnolo Delta brakes

[ERK55]

OK, so here's the question.
I've been thinking of a build that would pair a nice of later-gen set of Campagnolo delta brakes with a NOS Chorus alloy group.
Internet searchs suggest that the Delta brakes don't work so well with modern brifters due to pull ratios or something like that. Or at least not optimally.
It's also been stated that these brakes tend to work better with wider rims. 20mm better than 18mm etc.
If I were to use some "modern" wider (eg 23-25 mm) would this somehow mitigate this issue??

Thanks for any input.

[buddybikes]

What type of terrain and usage are you using it for? Wouldn't use these (however don't have first hand experience) in Vermont gaps.. Pack riding in busy area, probably not also.

[oldpotatoe]

OK, so here's the question.
I've been thinking of a build that would pair a nice of later-gen set of Campagnolo delta brakes with a NOS Chorus alloy group.
Internet searchs suggest that the Delta brakes don't work so well with modern brifters due to pull ratios or something like that. Or at least not optimally.
It's also been stated that these brakes tend to work better with wider rims. 20mm better than 18mm etc.
If I were to use some "modern" wider (eg 23-25 mm) would this somehow mitigate this issue??

Thanks for any input.

Not true. They do work best with older gen brake levers or first gen ERGO but they work fine with even lastest gen ERGO.

Last gen Deltas came with two width spacers, 4.3 and 5.6...fat rims and narrow rims. Earlier 3 pivot did not. 5 pivot best, btw. I have a set FS, maybe. Expensive.

As for right above, they work fine for hilly stuff around here and riding in groups. Gotta be set up right(see spacers above) but modulate really well, easy to skid tires. The above is often third-fifth hand 'info' for people who have never used/seen/set them up.

[malcolm]

I don't know the answer as to use with modern components. Delta's have always had the reputation of not stopping as well as they should. I've owned several bikes over the years with deltas and just have not found that to be true or at least not noticeably true to me, maybe I just don't ride/stop that aggressively, but I think properly set up they stop fine and beyond that they are pure art and everybody knows it's better to look good than stop good.

Mine were always used with period correct levers. OP will chime in and I'm sure he'll know the answer.

Too late

[merckx]

The best thing about Delta brakes is the blog. It appears to now be defunct. I miss it.

[choke]

I currently have bikes with Deltas and a) non-aero Campy levers, b) 8sp Ergos, c) 10sp Ergos and d) 11sp Ergos. If there's any difference in the cable pull I'm not sensitive enough to notice it.

If Deltas are set up right they work well IMO. You can also use more modern Campy 11sp holders/pads with them, they'll bolt on with no mods* and you can even use the original flat headed nut. I think that the modern pads do make a difference, though I rode my first set for several years with the original pads and never had a problem.

*You might have to add another thin washer to get them to tighten down but that's the extent of it.

[Brian Cdn]

Agreed w/ OldPotatoe.

no issues stopping with the delta brakes, but they have to be set up right. I've ridden the Vermont gaps and raced with them. Again no probs at all.

[ERK55]

Thanks for all the responses.

I just think it would be a fun (and pretty) project.
In the future I could always switch the Deltas for silver Chorus brakes, should the need arise.

[Black Dog]

Not true. They do work best with older gen brake levers or first gen ERGO but they work fine with even lastest gen ERGO.

Last gen Deltas came with two width spacers, 4.3 and 5.6...fat rims and narrow rims. Earlier 3 pivot did not. 5 pivot best, btw. I have a set FS, maybe. Expensive.

As for right above, they work fine for hilly stuff around here and riding in groups. Gotta be set up right(see spacers above) but modulate really well, easy to skid tires. The above is often third-fifth hand 'info' for people who have never used/seen/set them up.

Tell us more about the set you have for sale? I may be interested.

[bikinchris]

Not true. They do work best with older gen brake levers or first gen ERGO but they work fine with even lastest gen ERGO.

Last gen Deltas came with two width spacers, 4.3 and 5.6...fat rims and narrow rims. Earlier 3 pivot did not. 5 pivot best, btw. I have a set FS, maybe. Expensive.

As for right above, they work fine for hilly stuff around here and riding in groups. Gotta be set up right(see spacers above) but modulate really well, easy to skid tires. The above is often third-fifth hand 'info' for people who have never used/seen/set them up.

What you need to remember is that most people are not as good of a mechanic as they think they are. Delta brakes are a work of engineering art on several levels and they are good enough for anyone when set up well. Yes there are more powerful brakes available. The internet allows people to besmirch a product's reputation with no real authority to do so. On the last touring bike I built, the guy couldn't believe how good the disc brakes worked "and they don't squeal" he said. Screw the internet and the hack mechanics passing themselves off as being knowledgeable.

[FlashUNC]

The price delta between, say, Deltas and eeBrakes is getting close to being a wash. That being the case, I'd go with ee's.

[oldpotatoe]

Tell us more about the set you have for sale? I may be interested.

Nice shape, last gen(black bellows), 5 pivot...$550 with period levers.

[ERK55]

In the end I don't think my project idea will work out.

This was to have been for a custom build (builder posts here)... for a road bike made for "standard" reach brakes, but with the brake holes maxed out so as to allow slightly wider tires, up to 27/28. Looking at the Delta brakes and comparing them to Chorus skeleton brakes (or even Monoplanars) the slot in the brake arm is significantly shorter in the Deltas. Much less downward range in extending the brake shoes. So, it doesn't seem you'd be able to slide the brake pads down low enough to allow the 27/28 tires to clear. I'm kind of disappointed.

[Black Dog]

Nice shape, last gen(black bellows), 5 pivot...$550 with period levers.

Even my love and deep desire for these brakes can not justify that kind of coin, especially with the s**t exchange rate between CDN and USD. Thanks for the info.

[oldpotatoe]

In the end I don't think my project idea will work out.

This was to have been for a custom build (builder posts here)... for a road bike made for "standard" reach brakes, but with the brake holes maxed out so as to allow slightly wider tires, up to 27/28. Looking at the Delta brakes and comparing them to Chorus skeleton brakes (or even Monoplanars) the slot in the brake arm is significantly shorter in the Deltas. Much less downward range in extending the brake shoes. So, it doesn't seem you'd be able to slide the brake pads down low enough to allow the 27/28 tires to clear. I'm kind of disappointed.

Slot in back of caliper for fixing bolt allows for up and down adjustment of entire caliper also-Delta.

[oldpotatoe]

Even my love and deep desire for these brakes can not justify that kind of coin, especially with the s**t exchange rate between CDN and USD. Thanks for the info.

Y'all ought to join the EU...there's a vacancy.:D:p

[ERK55]

Slot in back of caliper for fixing bolt allows for up and down adjustment of entire caliper also-Delta.

Well I've revealed my ignorance and thank goodness for experts. Maybe all is not lost.

Thank you Peter!

[choke]

In the end I don't think my project idea will work out.

This was to have been for a custom build (builder posts here)... for a road bike made for "standard" reach brakes, but with the brake holes maxed out so as to allow slightly wider tires, up to 27/28. Looking at the Delta brakes and comparing them to Chorus skeleton brakes (or even Monoplanars) the slot in the brake arm is significantly shorter in the Deltas. Much less downward range in extending the brake shoes. So, it doesn't seem you'd be able to slide the brake pads down low enough to allow the 27/28 tires to clear. I'm kind of disappointed.I think that it will be tough to make Record Deltas clear a tire that really measures 28mm. The nature of the way they adjust means there's only so much room under the body and IME a 25 or 26 is the limit.

However, if you use Croce d'Aune Deltas then you would have no problem since they adjust like normal brakes. I am in the minority but I prefer them to Records and that is one of the reasons why.

In this pic the pads are at the very bottom of the slot and the tire measures 30.8mm.

http://www.cycle.ciocctoo.com/losa2.jpg

[bikinchris]

With delta brakes, the location of the brake bridge and fork crown height can limit your tire size. If your bridge and crown are the perfect height, you can get 28c Continentals. In there, but most race bikes won't allow bigger than 23 in front and 25 in the rear.

[Polyglot]

I'm so happy that others are finally coming around to defend the "honor" of delta brakes. For years all that you heard was that they were terrible brakes that didn't work well. I have always maintained that they work very well and it simply a question of adjustment. Unfortunately there are so few people that are capable and willing to take the time to adjust them properly. I have both 3 and 5 pivot models on bikes right now and they all work well and I would be hard pressed to identify the model in a blind test. I have been able to fit a 30 mm tire with one specific frame but that can also be related to the position if the brake mounting bolt in the fork crown r brake bridge. Most frames will max out at 28 mm.

[donevwil]

I'm running a set of last gen 5-pivot Croce Deltas with gen 2 10spd ergos and OP built 23mm TB14s on an old Merckx. I'm using a set of Kool Stop cartridge holders with salmon pads in place of the originals and the brakes have no problem stopping my 240#. They don't have the max power of modern dual pivots with good pads, but modulation is noticeably better. They're certainly not the easiest to set up, but with practice (and trial and error) perform FAR better than any side-pull single pivot I've ever used (monoplaner, Dura-Ace, etc.). The Croces also clear a true 28mm tall tire on my Merckx whereas my Records only cleared a 25 on the same bike.

[fogrider]

Slot in back of caliper for fixing bolt allows for up and down adjustment of entire caliper also-Delta.

True, but the fixing bolt is just a few mm from the bottom of the caliper and the cable has to be cut perfectly the first time. Knowing that once the bolt is tightened, the cable will fray when compressed. Once cut and tightened, the only adjustment is in the bolt at the top.

I rode the mountains in the San Francisco Bay Area for years back in the day, but with modern brakes, I'm not going back. Modern brakes are lighter action and have more power. I've always thought that one does not need a whole lot of power on the brakes unless you are riding in traffic. On the open road, you should be able to see the stops a long ways out and descending, you really just need to modulate your speed. And I've always been one to say that good descending depends more on skill than equipment but I'll stay on dual pivots.

[gfk_velo]

Just to add to the chorus of positive comments about Deltas, we've used them on our racing tandem for the last 23 years and we are still alive, so I guess that means that when we have needed them to stop us, they have ...

OK,, I know I have a vested interest but vested interest or not, 23 years on a tandem with no disasters must suggest something about them as a brake ... :-)