Bontrager Carbon wheels

[ghisallo-bda]

Anyone riding these wheels, and in particular, the XXX lite wheelset? I am curious about how they ride and hold up to usage. Are the bontrager (dt?) hubs good and solid?

Bontrager touts the XXX as having good braking. Are that noticeably better than other carbon rimmed wheels?

thanks

[jerk]

they are the best carbon wheels out there. the jerk was on some prototypes and helped with some constructive criticism. they brake better than anyone elses carbon wheel in all conditions. these are the wheels that got lance off of ADA/Lightweights. they are lighter than anything else out there, torsionally stiff and use a great hub (swiss made). they are probably the best wheels out there.
the only negative thing the jerk can think of is that they are not deep enough to be considered aero. if this is a concern think abou the new ADA's.
the jerk




:beer:

[ghisallo-bda]

Hey Jerk,

what's new about the new Ada wheels? Has he changed the carbon construction much or is it more in the hub workings?

thanks

[jerk]

basically from what cees told the jerk the new wheel is a little more aero and much lighter. he's using a higher modulas(sp?) graphite and has changed the orientation of the spokes to allow for a reduced frontal area....now the thing about meneer beers is that he is a bit of a charlatan and a bit of a genius and a bit of a stodgy old dutchman. he won't sell you **** unless he likes you... (must be why the jerk was on a waiting list for adas that lasted longer than his cyclign career!) anyway, if you want to shoot me an email off the board i'm working on becoming a sort of USA distrubutor for his junk....i still a haven't finalized anything because i'm feeling out a couple of different partners....

love,
the jerk

[BigMac]

I would disagree with the "Jerk" in his assesment of the Bontrager Triple X. I am a big fan of Bontrager alloy wheels and their rims as well, however the Triple X does not share the most important factor in making the alloy prebuilts and rims so good; the Triple X is not assymetrically drilled in rear to reduce dish. They are also not the equivalent of Race XLite's in terms of braking feel and performance.

That's not to say these are not good race only wheels, they are. Their braking performance is similar to Campy Hyperon, much better than the Zipp's. Rim mass is among the lightest, although not as light as the Reynold's Cirro KOM's. Total wheel mass is around 1200g, 50g less than Hyperon although Campy mass is w/skewers, I do not believe Bontrager masses include qr skewers. The Reynolds KOM's are another 150g lighter, albeit w/o skewers. The std Cirro's are 50g less than Triple X, equally stiff laterally, $100 less money although a bit worse in braking performance.

Bontrager has begun using Edco hubs in Triple X and Race XLite, this is same hub Zipp formerly used. The Zipp's were noted for occasional freehub pawl failures thus I'd be a bit concerned about this change. They had previously used DT/Hugi produced hubs.

If you are looking for lightweight composite climbing wheels at "semi-reasonable" pricing, I think the Hyperon is the best choice. Lateral stiffness is noticably higher than Bontrager or Reynold's, the Zipp 303's are terrible in this respect. This is largely due to fact that Hyperon uses an assymetric rear rim that results in lateral stiffness similar to Neutron. The Cirro and Triple X required me to open brake qr during any climbing or heavy load conditions to prevent brake block rub. Why the Triple X is not assymetrically drilled I do not know, seems like a very imprudent decision, imo. If you need something more aero, the Campy Bora G3 is another superb wheel, not overly crosswind friendly however. I personally think alloy rimmed wheels are a better choice, not to mention a FAR better value, for 99% of all users. Of the current available inventory of composite wheels, the Campy's stand alone at front of class, imo.

Ride on!

[ghisallo-bda]

Jerk,

sure I'll take you up on that.

geoffstone@northrock.bm

I actually have a pair of Ada wheels and I'll share my experience with you if you drop me a line.

[jerk]

the jerk thinks that the bontrager carbon wheel is great. the rear rim is not offset because the hub flange design allows for equal spoke tension without this feature. trek probably figured it was chepaer to modify the hub design than to produce two rim molds. the left flange is cupped and uses straight pull spokes while the drive side uses a larger flange and traditional spokes....
i have never heard of anyone needing to open up their rear brake quick release to prevent rubbing....in the jerk's experience this wheel is as torsionally ridgid as the hyperon...but then again a jerk is not a big mac.
anyway, the jerk likes the campy wheels too, but the bontragers are just as nice and oftern can be had for considerably less money...
where the jerk disagrees with mr. mac is in terms of braking performance. while not the equl of an alloy rim the xxxx's brake better than hyperions which have a far clicker surface and seem more prone heat issues.
the jerk

[BigMac]

Jerk:

In order to get reasonable braking performance from the Hyperon you must jetison the stock cork pads and use Kool Stop Green pads instead. No heat build up issues that I've noticed.

If Trek feels the new Edco hubs do not require assymetric rear rims, why do they use same hub and lacing on '04 Race X-Lites which do have assyemtric rim? The spoke angle on right (drive) side is considerably less angled than on left. I did not check spoke tension to determine exact tension differential between sides but I suspect it is large. The spoke angle on Hyperon are much more similar due to 3mm offset and spoke tension is quite similar. I'd trust the Campy hub for longterm durability/reliability over the Edco as well.

The one item in favor of the Bontrager is its usage of stock j bend spoke on driveside hub. This is typically where spoke failures occur, so having a readily available spoke is far better than Campy's proprietary straight pull type. On the other hand, Campy's better lacing/rim design should be beneficial in mitigating spoke breakage issues. I've had mine for 2 seasons w/o any failures or maintainence issues although I rarely use them, basically limited to competitive DC's with lots of steeps.

I've only demo'd one TripleX sample, which was prior to retail release so perhaps some changes have been made however I doubt it. Granted, my size and weight is greater than most cyclists and I am a bit hard on wheels so take my experiences with a grain of salt.

I'd still buy the Race X-Lite or Neutron sewup wheels before spending nearly twice as much to save maybe 300g per pair of wheels unless I was spending all day riding >10% grade climbs. Safety, durability, reliability, torsional stiffness and cost all favor the alloy versions. Bontrager and Campy make really fine alloy wheels.

[jerk]

big mac-

i'd agree with you on all your points. actually strongly suggested that trek keep regular spokes on at least the drive side for exactly the reasons you spoke of......

good point on the kool stop greenies...those work great on other carbon rims too...i've only used the campys on hyperons.

i still prefer aluminum rimmed wheels for 99% of the riding i do now....both race x lites and neutrons are personal favorites although i'm a bit faster on my aero x lites when i'm riding alone...even though i feel like i'm slower....

honestly the reason the rim isn't offset on the triple xxx is expense. the front and rear rim are the same and the mold was very expensive for the boys to make......maybe i wave the bontrager flag a little much because i was one of the most vehement opponents of rolf wheels and was brought on by john burke to help with the bontrager program....

anyway,
jerk

[BigMac]

Jerk:

Amazing how you and I have evolved into agreeing on most cycling topics. I still can't use 15cm stems, even my filet'd Cr-Mo 11.5cm stem flexes more than I sometimes prefer, a 15cm would have to use way OS tubing and that would be tooooo uuuugly.

You've even dropped the 3rd person references, or is that just for my benefit saved just for direct response to me. Anyway, Holiday Cheers to you and yours.

Ride on!