Sturmey Archer S3X Hub: Initial Impressions

[MaraudingWalrus]

I'm updating this thread with my initial impressions on the thing.


See below.


C̶o̶n̶s̶i̶d̶e̶r̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶b̶u̶i̶l̶d̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶a̶ ̶w̶h̶e̶e̶l̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶ ̶a̶ ̶ Sturmey Archer S3X (http://www.sturmey-archer.com/en/products/detail/s3x-silver) h̶u̶b̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶t̶h̶r̶o̶w̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶m̶y̶Macaframa (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=176598). I̶f̶ ̶I̶ ̶l̶i̶k̶e̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶e̶n̶o̶u̶g̶h̶,̶ ̶I̶'̶l̶l̶ ̶l̶i̶k̶e̶l̶y̶ ̶b̶u̶i̶l̶d̶ ̶a̶n̶ ̶e̶n̶t̶i̶r̶e̶ ̶b̶i̶k̶e̶ ̶a̶r̶o̶u̶n̶d̶ ̶i̶t̶.̶

A̶n̶y̶b̶o̶d̶y̶ ̶u̶s̶e̶d̶ ̶o̶n̶e̶?̶

[donevwil]

I have not used one, but researched it a while back as an upgrade to my fixed commuter. Consensus is it's less a 3-speed fixed gear than it is a 3-speed free that doesn't coast, if that makes any sense. Quite a bit of backlash virtually eliminates the fixed sensation of being truly "connected" and apparently it doesn't stand up well to back pedaling so using brakes to slow/stop is mandatory. Tuning is also critical for function and longevity although that wouldn't likely be an issue for you.

I'd still like to try one though.

[MaraudingWalrus]

I have not used one, but researched it a while back as an upgrade to my fixed commuter. Consensus is it's less a 3-speed fixed gear than it is a 3-speed free that doesn't coast, if that makes any sense. Quite a bit of backlash virtually eliminates the fixed sensation of being truly "connected" and apparently it doesn't stand up well to back pedaling so using brakes to slow/stop is mandatory. Tuning is also critical for function and longevity although that wouldn't likely be an issue for you.

I'd still like to try one though.


It sounds like the first few batches had lots of play, and really were like having a very loose chain. It sounds like the later version didn't have that sensation quite as severely.

It also sounds like as long as they're taken serviced once they're broken in, and then reassembled correctly, that they're pretty durable.

The reviews on amazon are hilariously bad for them, but I'm trying to figure out who, besides weirdos like me, would want this, and I can't see who'd buy this off amazon.

[donevwil]

I've also heard the newer ones are much improved, I just never figured out how to tell which one I would be getting. I've been temped. There a wheelset in the classified for sale, but the price is above my "if I don't like it just flip it for a loss" budget range.

I say do it. Your write-ups are great, maybe you could get SA to donate one for an unbiased review.

[MaraudingWalrus]

I've also heard the newer ones are much improved, I just never figured out how to tell which one I would be getting. I've been temped. There a wheelset in the classified for sale, but the price is above my "if I don't like it just flip it for a loss" budget range.



I say do it. Your write-ups are great, maybe you could get SA to donate one for an unbiased review.



I'm going pull the trigger on building a wheel with it in a month or so,I think. Once I recover from my road logic build.

[donevwil]

I'm going pull the trigger on building a wheel with it in a month or so,I think. Once I recover from my road logic build.

Belt drive ? Can that be done ? Aren't the SA cogs unique ?

[MaraudingWalrus]

Belt drive ? Can that be done ? Aren't the SA cogs unique ?



It looks like a shimano splined cog will fit on there. In a perfect world I'd do this left side drive, belt drive. Will try my belt cog off the belt drive SuperSix to see if it fits. Otherwise, it'll just be left side drive fixed. That's the plan, eventually, anyway.

[cachagua]

...Apparently it doesn't stand up well to back pedaling so using brakes to slow/stop is mandatory...

If you run it left-side drive, wouldn't you be relying on that direction for power? Maybe that's one of the things they've improved in later versions?

Although, the gears turn this way, the gears turn that way, if it's built symmetrically inside maybe it doesn't matter which way the force is applied?

That'd be an interesting experiment. I'll admit, I've been curious about these myself.

[MaraudingWalrus]

Have the hub in hand, and laced it up to a rim (H+Son TB14 in black) tonight.
Tension and true sometime tomorrow.


For the moment, going to put the wheel on my existing bike (Macaframa) and use the bar end shifter. Provided I like the hub would eventually like to build a bike around it, and make it belt drive. Likely giving up on the left hand drive.

Weirdly, singlespeed surly or random other singlespeed cogs seem to not want to fit nicely on the hub. But a cog pulled from a cassette fits nicely. May be going with one of those temporarily. Belt drive cog off of the Belt Drive Supersix fits perfectly.

[MaraudingWalrus]

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[donevwil]

I'm eagerly awaiting your review as I'm still on the fence about trying one out. Really curious how you find the gear ratios, too wide, just right.... Belt cog looks at home.

[MaraudingWalrus]

Got the wheel built up a while back, but never was able to make it work on my initial frame. I was hoping to use it on my Raleigh Macaframa, and just use zip ties - or pull ties, as a riding buddy of mine insists they're actually called and that nobody calls them zipties, but I digress - to secure the housing down tightly enough to operate the shifter, since that frame has no cable stops. Got another frame, and have it rigged up.

I rode the bike around for about five miles tonight and have some initial impressions.

It’s really, really weird and nerve wracking mounting a fixed gear you know has the ability to shift, especially when you’re not quite sure how that’s going to go.

The shifter/hub have three very distinct positions/clicks, and tend to what to stay in one of those spots, so my initial fears of accidental shifting when hitting a bump seem to be unfounded, provided setup is correct.

The cable adjuster on the cable hanger I’m currently using has a very broad slot for which the cable passes through, I hadn’t thought about it, but it’s very important that this slot is 180 degrees opposite of the direction the cable is being pulled, as I had mine sort of nearby and the cable bounced around when changing between tensioned and untensioned as it falls in and out of the slot, which did cause incidental shifting, as the cable was suddenly very slack. Again, once I had it properly set up (in this case, a turn of the barrel adjuster by 1/4 turn) it was flawless.

There is a small amount of play in the system, not unlike a slightly loose chain would feel on a normal fixed gear setup. It’s really not too bad. It's far better than what reviews of older ones when they first came to market would have you believe.

I did find in one of the incidents where the cable slackened through the barrel adjuster, that it is possible to find yourself in a sort of “neutral gear” (where you freewheel both forward and backwards) if you leave the shifter sort of inbetween positions, that was very disconcerting.

I found the spread of the three gears to be very usable, although I’m setting mine up differently to how the manufacturer suggests it be used. They suggest a running in the middle gear all the time, and having a high and low gear. I’m going to run mine in the high gear all the time, which is the gear that is the direct driven gear of the IGH, that is to say the gear without efficiency loss at the hub due to internal gearing. I really am just going to run it primarily as a two speed system, with the main gear being slightly higher than I’ve historically run fixed/singlespeed on the road, so I can move a little quicker should I want to, but still have a gear to get over the big climbs (the one bridge between my home and work or campus). Though I currently do have too small of a cog on the back, I have a 16t kick-:butt: cog on the way from EndlessBike Co. That should lower the gear ratio a bit. I may move to a 17t in the future, we'll see.

I’ll report back with more information as I ride it more over the weekend and next weeks and months.

[MaraudingWalrus]

I've got a few hundred miles on the hub. It is operating exactly as I hoped it would. The only issues I've had with it have been my own doing, not its fault.

The drag in the middle and lowest of the gear ratios is not-nonexistent. It's a totally manageable amount in the middle ratio, it's a bit of a drag in the lowest (jokes!). I think if I were buying a new rear cog (I have a 16t cog on there) I'd opt for a cog with one or two more teeth - I fear I underestimated how significantly slower my commuter bike would be from a regular bike (and also how much fatter and slower I've become).

I also have run into issues with the shifting having a bit of a delay from when I throw the lever, but that is due to how I have the shift chain/cable running. It currently runs at a bit of an awkward angle along the side of my rear rack, and occasionally catches momentarily. For those who don't know, sturmey archer hubs have a tiny chain coming out of the side of the hubs with internal gears. It is the tiny chain that gets hung up on the rack momentarily from time to time.