WAY OT: Negotiating

[stephenmarklay]

I am fascinated by the subject. Mostly, what motivated people etc.

What books or references do you folks like on the subject?

[akelman]

The Art of the Deal, obviously.

[joosttx]

The twos secrets to negoiating are

1) keep the dialogue going
2) know the others needs and wants

[txcid05]

This is my go-to book. I work in the finance dept at a truck dealership, do it all day long. Enjoy the heck out of it. I certainly don't profess mastery, I am always learning!

"The Secrets of Power Negotiating"

https://www.amazon.com/Secrets-Power-Negotiating-Anniversary-Negotiator-ebook/dp/B007RJ9LMU?ie=UTF8&ref_=zg_bs_2686_12

If you don't have time to read it, here are my keys:

- Never "Split the difference"
- Get comfortable with quiet
- Talk as little as possible
- Watch your opponent, observe them. Body language says it all.

[bobdenver1961]

- Don't become emotionally involved

- Be willing to walk away.

[robin3mj]

Establish your limit position ahead of time and don't go past it.

Always have a wish list of minor items that you can keep asking for right up until handshake/documents signed.

[DfCas]

So if I offered a nice frame set here in the classifieds for $1 I think the odds are pretty high someone would offer 75 cents.

[unterhausen]

- Get comfortable with quiet
- Talk as little as possible
this really works. People can't stand dead air.

[fuzzalow]

this really works. People can't stand dead air.

Except on other people that also know the "dead air" trick!

[txcid05]

Except on other people that also know the "dead air" trick!

True...but I've had 2 people in the past year with whom I negotiated that were stone cold. 2 out of probably 300 in the last year.....pretty small odds.

Here is an interesting observations: both of those two individuals were women business owners. Proving: Women in business are some tough cookies!

[weaponsgrade]

I've always been partial to your signature or brains.

[stephenmarklay]

Thank you so much everyone.

I am really interested in what motivates people to do something or not do something. Like I said the social dynamics is the thing I really dig.

I use negotiating skills in my business but my man motivation is to understand what makes people tick.

[mhespenheide]

I'm not a good negotiator. I'm not good at social interactions in the first place, much less in gaming an interaction in my favor. But the four or five "great" negotiations I've made in the last four or five years have all come when I've been 99% willing to walk away from a deal. Two used cars, a salary for a new job, and better housing associated with a second new job. In each case we kept talking until the 11th hour and I was consistent, polite, and firm.

[SlackMan]

I won't claim that it works 100% of the time, but I have often noticed that in negotiating the other side will often say something like "Come on, it's only X hundred dollars." What he wants is for me to conclude it's not that much money, so I should come up to his offer of X hundred** dollars higher. My response is "Well, if it's only X hundred dollars, and that's not very much, then why don't you come down by X hundred dollars?" Of course, the only way he won't come down is if X hundred dollars is a significant amount, and then we are back to more sensible, rational negotiations.

**On houses and salaries, replace 'hundreds' with 'thousands.'

[campy man]

Here is an interesting observations: both of those two individuals were women business owners. Proving: Women in business are some tough cookies!

Or read the same book :rolleyes:

I'm not in sales or marketing but with so much info available via Internet it's hard to believe people aren't using the same strategy vs each other. Seems like it really comes down to who has the advantage.

[stephenmarklay]

This has been helpful to clarify my thoughts. While there are some aspects of negotiation that are invaluable I am actually more interested in influence and persuasion.

I tend to think that influence is more of a long term proportion while negotiation is a here and now get what you want. I am not interested in pressure tactics (or other means to make a deal that work) and more about why someone makes a decision themselves (but influenced.)

I guess its the human interaction that intrigues me.

[velomonkey]

If you don't have time to read it, here are my keys:

- Never "Split the difference"
- Get comfortable with quiet
- Talk as little as possible
- Watch your opponent, observe them. Body language says it all.

This is great and a solid basis. Here is what I would add - don't be afraid to go first - this whole idea of 'never go first' is BS.

Go in with your firm BETNA - that's a fancy way of saying have a drop dead number that you will accept without negotiation - you need this BEFORE you start.

In terms of the quiet thing - silence does work - but I like to say it this way - "you can always talk your way out of a sales meeting, you can never listen your way out." If you listen and even ask questions you will be really surprised how much information people are willing to give you.

Do small things - don't sit across from them, sit next to them. Take notes. Play the long game - if they think it's adversarial you make it congenial. Always, though, always walk away if you can't get to whatever you need.

[Kirk007]

This has been helpful to clarify my thoughts. While there are some aspects of negotiation that are invaluable I am actually more interested in influence and persuasion.

I guess its the human interaction that intrigues me.

Important to distinguish between negotiating and trying to persuade. Lawyers are really guilty of this, always trying to persuade the other side that their position is wrong when what needs to happen is they need to cut a deal by negotiating terms. I can't recall how many settlement negotiations, including mediated ones, where both sides would spend the first 8 hours or more restating their legal cases rather than negotiating. It was only after everyone was exhausted with that exercise that the negotiating began. The one I remember best concluded at 4 a.m. (started at 8 a.m. the previous day) between 2 Italian families in the garbage business. Our clients family brought a cooler of food and the family Matriarch, who swore at the other family in Italian (they accused her of putting a hex on them) made abundantly clear that the cooler was "our food" - not for them!

[verticaldoug]

Go to India. go north to Kashmir.
Go to a rug dealer.
Try to out negotiate a Kashmiri Rug dealer, you will be severely schooled.

[Mikej]

Seems like negotiations could be to purchase or sell an item or service, or to get somebody to do /not do something. Like hey kids quit it and clean your rooms...and hey wife put away the dishes.... Sell me this for really cheap. And and those are different. Op which are you looking at?

[unterhausen]

before the hostilities started in 1990, I was in Doha Qatar shopping for a clothes iron. I went into a couple of stores, and they were way more than I wanted to spend. Went into a little shop with a batch of guys sitting around drinking tea, and they had an iron for $10. Perfect. I handed the guy $10, he was shocked and handed me back some change. After things were over, nobody was interested in bartering. I always thought it was because the Iraqis almost hit them with a scud

[stephenmarklay]

Important to distinguish between negotiating and trying to persuade. Lawyers are really guilty of this, always trying to persuade the other side that their position is wrong when what needs to happen is they need to cut a deal by negotiating terms. I can't recall how many settlement negotiations, including mediated ones, where both sides would spend the first 8 hours or more restating their legal cases rather than negotiating. It was only after everyone was exhausted with that exercise that the negotiating began. The one I remember best concluded at 4 a.m. (started at 8 a.m. the previous day) between 2 Italian families in the garbage business. Our clients family brought a cooler of food and the family Matriarch, who swore at the other family in Italian (they accused her of putting a hex on them) made abundantly clear that the cooler was "our food" - not for them!

Yes I really was clear in my mind. However, there is certainly some common ground in the subjects and persuasion can have an impact on negotiation.

Cool stuff really.

[ojingoh]

Best book I've ever read on the subject: Getting to Yes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getting_to_Yes). Just great advice how to think about negotiation, and what the homework of good negotiation entails. The Authors thesis is that good negotiation is getting your emotions out of the process. The best tip: agree to the terms of valuation before you start negotiating.

A different view: negotiation is making the other guy give in. Here's a quick cheatsheet (http://www.jamesaltucher.com/2014/05/the-ultimate-cheat-sheet-to-become-a-great-negotiator/), most of this S*** is 'negotiation tactics.' These are the signals whenever it's more about the power of the negotiators rather than the negotiation.

[stephenmarklay]

Best book I've ever read on the subject: Getting to Yes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getting_to_Yes). Just great advice how to think about negotiation, and what the homework of good negotiation entails. The Authors thesis is that good negotiation is getting your emotions out of the process. The best tip: agree to the terms of valuation before you start negotiating.

A different view: negotiation is making the other guy give in. Here's a quick cheatsheet (http://www.jamesaltucher.com/2014/05/the-ultimate-cheat-sheet-to-become-a-great-negotiator/), most of this S*** is 'negotiation tactics.' These are the signals whenever it's more about the power of the negotiators rather than the negotiation.

"Getting to yes" and the new "getting to yes with yourself” are now on my list f reads. Thank you.

[stephenmarklay]

I have getting to the yes in my hands and plan on reading it at the campsite this weekend.

I decided I am really interested in the psychology of persuasion.

Thanks again.

[ojingoh]

I have getting to the yes in my hands and plan on reading it at the campsite this weekend.

I decided I am really interested in the psychology of persuasion.

Thanks again.

Me too! Essential skills for entrepreneurs. Read Dan Airely, he used to be a professor, he's at Google now. Behavioral Economics. Start with Predictably Irrational (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predictably_Irrational).

[MattTuck]

The B.A.T.N.A. is key. Best Alternative To a Negotiated Agreement

In other words, how well off (or not well off) will you be if you don't reach an agreement. Any thing that you agree to should be superior to your BATNA.

If you have a crappy BATNA, then you need to either 1) find ways to make it not so crappy, or 2) be willing to accept a less optimal deal. If you have a very good BATNA, then you are in the driver's seat.

[Joxster]

I negotiated with the wife once, what's hers is hers and what's mine is hers. I think it went well

[stephenmarklay]

Me too! Essential skills for entrepreneurs. Read Dan Airely, he used to be a professor, he's at Google now. Behavioral Economics. Start with Predictably Irrational (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predictably_Irrational).

I went to check this out at Audible and realized I already had it :)

[Kirk007]

I negotiated with the wife once, what's hers is hers and what's mine is hers. I think it went well

Had similar negotiations with my son when he was young, one a regular basis. Kids are naturals.

[yngpunk]

before the hostilities started in 1990, I was in Doha Qatar shopping for a clothes iron. I went into a couple of stores, and they were way more than I wanted to spend. Went into a little shop with a batch of guys sitting around drinking tea, and they had an iron for $10. Perfect. I handed the guy $10, he was shocked and handed me back some change. After things were over, nobody was interested in bartering. I always thought it was because the Iraqis almost hit them with a scud

You should have gone in, joined them in having some tea, talk about the weather, Iraqi scuds, etc. and then gotten up to leave after awhile saying that you had to go buy an clothes iron....