the 2007 frame trend is:

[swoop]

Integrated seatposts. Look, Giant, Ridley, Time, who else am i leaving out?
That will be the new dealio.... which is a relief because my seatpost is slowing me down.

(i like the way integrated posts look. i also like chocolate. i don't have any chocolate parts on my bike). they are sexy looking.


whatevers. glad i'm not in the bike-case industry!

[Bill Bove]

who else am i leaving out?

BH too.

I also like the look of the intergrated seatpost. What would a Meivici be like with the Time style seatpost?

[Fixed]

bro what will you do to change saddle height ? I like to ride a little lower in the winter than the summer .

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . if you want to sell your bike somewhere down the road (ahem) you just make sure to sell it to someone who's shorter than you and who owns a hacksaw. ;)

BBD

[Chief]

bro what will you do to change saddle height ? I like to ride a little lower in the winter than the summer .

Get yourself another bike.

[William]

. . . if you want to sell your bike somewhere down the road (ahem) you just make sure to sell it to someone who's shorter than you and who owns a hacksaw. ;)

BBD

That means I could sell my bike to anyone.....as long as they have arms like an Orangutan. ;)


William (Grape ape!!)

[swoop]

it's a misnomer that there isn't a seat post. there is a cap that gives you a good 2 or 3 cm of wiggle room to adjust on all these models. 3 cm is a lot of range.

i doubt the nice boys here at serotta would give you this option... they probably aren't tooled up for it and wouldn't want to deal the all this mis-cuts.

that being said.. a white meivici with carbon drop out logos and a little candy red might be tres sexy. andrew.. any pics of white ones?

[stevep]

there is a decent amount of adjustment possible on the Time version... about 3cm... so plenty for summer/ winter adjustment. not sure about the others.
not to get anyone apoplectic but there is some sense to this design... as indicated in the advertisements.... and every skeptical dealer when actually shown the working product says.."oh, thats it? ok, i see it...should work..." then they drink the kool aid...
salt, salt, valium, salt, serenity now ... as required.

[Kirk Pacenti]

I like it. If they give you a workable range of adjustment,(3-5cm) I don't see a problem.

[musgravecycles]

Those bars are MP yo...

[swoop]

i haven't ridden a look in forever... how are the bikes lately.. anyone ride a 585 recently?

hey time rep.. notice look has a 74.5 seat tube angle in my size.. work with me here steve. my femurs are begging.

kudos to time for being ahead of the curve on this one.

[big D]

Another trend I noticed on a few 07 frames is diferent sized headsets.

Look, Time, Canyon and Cannondale afew other have gone to using 1 1/8 and 1 1/4 headsets and Cannondale has gone to 1 1/8 to 1 1/2 on the System Six frame.

I have to agree that the intergrated seatpost looks really cool.

[swoop]

the headset on the ridley noah is stout, big, and pretty gorgeous in real life too. i do like the subtle evolution that happens when people realize how to approach new materials... carbon bikes shouldn't emulate steel ones... different materials have different properties and those properties can be exploited in different ways.

look how lugs have evolved... this evolution can take place in all materials... as long as its just not all gimmick.

[stevep]

hey time rep.. notice look has a 74.5 seat tube angle in my size.. work with me here steve. my femurs are begging.

hey, ride it...you will like it. you would be the same as bettini with this bike...maybe better.
guaranteed.

ps. i have yet to hear about ( some idiot, sorry ) mis cutting the mast... not to say it cannot happen. if somehow it did happen...the id of the frame is 27.2 so a regular seat post could go in there.

[swoop]

hey... gil (gilles, jilles)? let me ride his... i blame my mom for the femurs.

[zap]

That Look 595 is going to be one sweet bike. That seatpost is adjustable, no worries. I think this seatpost design will also smooth out the ride a bit.

Internal cable routing too.

Someone is thinking here.

By the way, Klien introduced the oversized bottom hs bearing back in '94. Maybe someone had this sort of design back in the 1890's.

[97CSI]

The main thing I see this year is the same as I see every year. They want more of your money. All else pales by comparison and is just so much BS.

[Litespeeder]

I don't know why the trend is towards integrated seat tubes but the bike sure looks sexy. Leave it up to the French to come up with a high performance bike that is also sexy. Here's another sexy product from France. She's taking Europe by storm and she's more popular than the Tour de France these days

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3101836263624326712&q=alizee

:bike:

[catulle]

Integrated seatposts. Look, Giant, Ridley, Time, who else am i leaving out?
That will be the new dealio.... which is a relief because my seatpost is slowing me down.

(i like the way integrated posts look. i also like chocolate. i don't have any chocolate parts on my bike). they are sexy looking.


whatevers. glad i'm not in the bike-case industry!


The more I see these bikes, the more I love the lugged stuff, atmo.

[Fat Robert]

3cm is a huge range of adjustment. those things are fine.

my new bike will be cooler though.

[stevep]

The main thing I see this year is the same as I see every year. They want more of your money. All else pales by comparison and is just so much BS.

i therefore recommend that you do not buy one... and add that you should make loud noises and shout bitterly at anyone who does want something high performance like this.

[FATBOY]

not to be outdone, Scott, who have integrated seatmasts on their t.t. frames right now will have one on a crosscountry mountain bike next year. I tend to like dropping my post for techy descending and the thought of losing that ability sucks.....

[Grant McLean]

3cm is a huge range of adjustment. those things are fine.



Likely there's room to manouver, but 3 cm is not so
big if you don't take into account the rail height of the saddle.
Not that people would switch from an SLR to a Brooks, but there is more
than two cm's difference between several popular saddles.

Us wee short guys know s*it like that.

g

[Fat Robert]

Likely there's room to manouver, but 3 cm is not so
big if you don't take into account the rail height of the saddle.
Not that people would switch from an SLR to a Brooks, but there is more
than two cm's difference between several popular saddles.

Us wee short guys know s*it like that.

g

that's why i went kinda nuts on ebay and now have a quintet of turbomatic 4 saddles on my parts shelf, 1 on a bike. i'm set for a while, brudda.

[Grant McLean]

that's why i went kinda nuts on ebay and now have a quintet of turbomatic 4 saddles on my parts shelf, 1 on a bike. i'm set for a while, brudda.

got my own roll of rolls... ;)

g

[obtuse]

i like integrated seatposts. they make sense. not to rehash everything but modern race bikes are different than old race bikes. the hoods have replaced the drops as the primary riding position....bars have become shallower.....so headtubes are shorter meaning saddle to bar drop has to be greater.....we spend most of our time riding in the saddle.....the frame needs to be extended up to where it belongs and top tubes that'd slope downward looked stupid on 1980's funny bikes and look even stupider now.....

no one wants a big long flexy seatpost flexing all over the place. extended seat tubes rule. live with it. it's the new style.

it's not what people with zero saddle to bar drop who can;t ride race bikes need or should want...so the majority of you should just hush and be content to ride bikes that suit your needs...but for race bikes it makes perfect sense...and we're going to see more and more of it particularly as cyclists get taller and bigger. (blame european postwar milk payments to mothers.)

6'2 obtuse

[jartzt]

I'm trying to understand the benefit of the integrated post.

How is this more comfortable than a traditional frame with a carbon seat post?

How much weight savings can this design deliver over a traditional carbon frame and seat post (assume a seat post collar and 3cm-5cm's of overlapping carbon fiber tubing)? Is that weight savings worth the limitations that go along with the design?

What are the other benefits?

[pdxmech13]

until I have the oppurtunity
too use some fu**in gorilla
glue and melted legos too
extend an ebay bought bike.
:D

[Grant McLean]

I'm trying to understand the benefit of the integrated post.

How is this more comfortable than a traditional frame with a carbon seat post?

How much weight savings can this design deliver over a traditional carbon frame and seat post (assume a seat post collar and 3cm-5cm's of overlapping carbon fiber tubing)? Is that weight savings worth the limitations that go along with the design?

What are the other benefits?

With compact frames, there is a lot of leverage on the interface of frame
and seatpost. The main benefit of extending the seat tube is that the clamp
force of the post is no longer located in a high stress area. It's not a great
idea to intersect a high load point with a leverage point.

Like Obtuse/jerk says, it makes sense.

[jasont]

Integrated seatposts. Look, Giant, Ridley, Time, who else am i leaving out?
That will be the new dealio.... which is a relief because my seatpost is slowing me down.

(i like the way integrated posts look. i also like chocolate. i don't have any chocolate parts on my bike). they are sexy looking.


whatevers. glad i'm not in the bike-case industry!

Whoa, that's a nice looking bike. I really like the all white 585 and this thing looks even better, IMO.

The only thing is, I prefer standard geometry. I'm not a huge fan of compact frames.

[The Spider]

Carbon overlap would be around 7g per cm, and you should have more than 4....most posts are 7 to 10cm (3 to 4 inches)...so a little bit of weight is saved. When frames hover around 1000g the chance to lose 50 to 70g is the logical evolution of the racing frame.

By the way the 7g per cm is worked out because most carbon frames use oversized seatposts (31 etc) so I weighed a few headset spacers and an old seatpost offcut.

Another trend for 2007: painted carbon. When every bike in the peleton is carbon seeing the weave is overrated!

(my Parlee is still beautiful though)

[Too Tall]

Thanks for that Spider.
This makes sense to extend the frame above the TT for a better support structure. It for sure makes the bidness of spec.ing' a decent seatpost a non-issue. As for the look...I know "it" when I see it. Good design and aesthetic developed together is no coincidence.

[bostondrunk]

"Looks good"......yeah, I can buy that. But function-wise....give me a break. I don't think anyone is having issues wit their seat posts flexing or breaking off in the frame...........duh......
So anyone detecting crankarm flex lately???

[Too Tall]

Bwaaaahahaha...crank arm flex ;) THAT elicits Bevis and Butthead comments. BD you funny.

Well, when you enter the relm of sloper bikes or any design where the exposed post approaches 400mm than yes you have potential for poor interface(s) and flex. It is resolved with proper seatpost cluster design and OS seatposts of good design. Do you need to overcome that limitation? Depends. You can put the effort and skill into design or you can...FLAME ON...build the seattube up to meet the seat....OUCH. Not really :rolleyes: If the design aligns with function and aesthetic...YdaHe!! not?

[chrisroph]

Bwaaaahahaha...crank arm flex ;) THAT elicits Bevis and Butthead comments. BD you funny.

Well, when you enter the relm of sloper bikes or any design where the exposed post approaches 400mm than yes you have potential for poor interface(s) and flex. It is resolved with proper seatpost cluster design and OS seatposts of good design. Do you need to overcome that limitation? Depends. You can put the effort and skill into design or you can...FLAME ON...build the seattube up to meet the seat....OUCH. Not really :rolleyes: If the design aligns with function and aesthetic...YdaHe!! not?

You can save a little weight, and you can eliminate a stress point. The stresses are easily overcome with proper design and parts. The weight savings perhaps helps a bit at the highest levels. This has been done before. Tom Ritchey did it 25-30 years ago. Mostly, it's just something else to sell, some new reason to get people to throw aside their cannonballs/looks/giants/orbeas/etc and lay down more cash in the feckless hope of buying speed.



TT, that new compact spectrum hasn't broken, overly flexed, or become too heavy, has it? :banana:

[sspielman]

The integrated seatpost arrangement is old news here at the cutting edge Serotta Forum...
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=6004&highlight=vxrs

[bostondrunk]

The integrated seatpost arrangement is old news here at the cutting edge Serotta Forum...
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=6004&highlight=vxrs

If the 'sleeve' on the time can be removed ad replaced with a standard 27.2 post, then is it really an 'integrated' design in the first place?? Looks more like a plain seat post to me, with a different way of securing it inside the frame...
nice looking ride though!

[swoop]

let me put the kabosh on the whys.... manufacturers are begining to get a better understanding of how to utilyze the unique properties of carbon. when one starts using a new material the tendency is to use it with the understanding you bring from the old material. there are some design choices that present themselves uniquely to you when you are laying up carbon or cutting molds.
integrated seat tubes, different tube shapes, diffrent lay up around stress points.. etc.
the integrated seat tube is a natural extension (no pun) of the use of carbon and is in many ways a trickle down from uber exotic tt bikes.
atmo

[sspielman]

If the 'sleeve' on the time can be removed ad replaced with a standard 27.2 post, then is it really an 'integrated' design in the first place?? Looks more like a plain seat post to me, with a different way of securing it inside the frame...
nice looking ride though!

The seatpost...or sleeve....that is supplied is VERY thin, so there is a weight savings. It seems fair to look at this system as a modified conventional system as opposed to some of the other systems that utilise spacers, etc....

[coylifut]

let me put the kabosh on the whys.... manufacturers are begining to get a better understanding of how to utilyze the unique properties of carbon. when one starts using a new material the tendency is to use it with the understanding you bring from the old material. there are some design choices that present themselves uniquely to you when you are laying up carbon or cutting molds.
integrated seat tubes, different tube shapes, diffrent lay up around stress points.. etc.
the integrated seat tube is a natural extension (no pun) of the use of carbon and is in many ways a trickle down from uber exotic tt bikes.
atmo

call me a cynic

looks like marketing to me

[atmo]

call me a cynic

looks like marketing to me
you are transfering the coach (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=225634&postcount=19) atmo.

[bostondrunk]

you are transfering the coach (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=225634&postcount=19) atmo.

So.....being one of the world's most respected frame builders, I'd be interested to hear your opinion on the new post design, and the flex that apparently we've all been missing in our standard seatposts...

[atmo]

So.....being one of the world's most respected frame builders, I'd be interested to hear your opinion on the new post design, and the flex that apparently we've all been missing in our standard seatposts...
raleigh carlton did that in the 1960s.
not that i was there or anything.
regardless, it's the bicycle business.
companies don't sell the same stuff
year after year and stay liquid, something
i am sure you can relate to atmo.

[Too Tall]

That's "channeling" Coach...I knew you ment it ;)

C - bet you've been waiting all day to say feckless. Made my day. Flex??? :rolleyes: NOT. My gawd that bike is a rocket.

[catulle]

raleigh carlton did that in the 1960s.
not that i was there or anything.
regardless, it's the bicycle business.
companies don't sell the same stuff
year after year and stay liquid, something
i am sure you can relate to atmo.


Nope, BD don't relate. He's been drinking the same old gut-rut for years to stay liquid. You cannot accuse the BD of perfidy or fickleness, atmo.

[atmo]

That's "channeling" Coach...I knew you ment it ;)

C - bet you've been waiting all day to say feckless. Made my day. Flex??? :rolleyes: NOT. My gawd that bike is a rocket.
no it isn't.
it's transfering, and i get it at home every day.
you're transfering this you're transfering that atmo.

[catulle]

BTW, talking about stress point... The Ritchey Take-down bike is built in a way that uses the seat-post precisely to strenghten the take-down joint where the top tube meets the seat tube. On the other hand, a carbon tube that sticks up in the air with no support seems fragile to me, especially at the joint with the top tube.

I'm buying the Miami lottery in order to buy my way to the top of Atmo's list, atmo.

[zap]

Did anyone notice where/how the seatpost clamp mech works on the Look 595. It's pretty slick.

[Serpico]

Did anyone notice where/how the seatpost clamp mech works on the Look 595. It's pretty slick.

http://www.roadcyclinguk.com/news/images/L1020533.jpg

http://www.roadcyclinguk.com/news/images/L1020524.jpg

http://www.roadcyclinguk.com/news/images/L1020523.jpg

http://www.roadcyclinguk.com/news/images/L1020526.jpg

[CarbonCycles]

Does it use an expander bolt bc I don't see a clamp on the outside...very sexy but might be PITA to tighten?!?

[Vancouverdave]

Another recycled item--Tom Ritchey used to offer an extended seat tube on his custom road frames, so that the amount of heavy seatpost could be minimized. I have seen at least one French constructeur bike--a Maury--that had the seatpost as an extension of the seat tube. This would obviously make it a really hard re-sell!

[swoop]

the way the world works is that things tend to evolve. even lug shapes on steel bikes. it isn't a bad thing. look.. i'm not aware of anything better than a round tube. being equally stiff in all directions sounds darn near perfect to me. i like that companies have variety, diffeent design approaches. this just leaves the consumer with more choices.

[The Spider]

and when riding I'll finally be able to look between my legs and smile! :)

that HAS to be a good thing

[bcm119]

The integrated seatpost arrangement is old news here at the cutting edge Serotta Forum...
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=6004&highlight=vxrs

even older! Its interesting to see how many have changed their opinions of these now.
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=3137

integrated seatposts are almost retro now, I think dbrk is filling his basement with them. ;)

[flydhest]

I question these interrogated seat posts.

[stevep]

dbrk has set up a time w/ntegrated post for the ramble... supposed to be a secret but it fits the thread so well...
and it has a b-17 on it...equalling the weight of the rest of the bike...
small sip of kool aid here.
apoplectically yours,
s

[dbrk]

I question these interrogated seat posts.

I think the Supreme Court has yet to rule on those interrogations but if you plan on using a hacksaw, you might get a more immediate response...

db[TimeVX]rk[S]

p.s. fie on him! fie, i say, on stevep for revealing my secret weapon for the Ramble...

[oracle]

I question these interrogated seat posts.


do they ever say anything in return?

[stevep]

name, rank and serial number

[Endless Goods]

Well its a short one, anyhow...reminds me of Axel's old MX...

http://cgi.ebay.com/EDDY-MERCKX-MX-Leader-exclusive-STEEL_W0QQitemZ300002727371QQihZ020QQcategoryZ9808 4QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[chrisroph]

That's "channeling" Coach...I knew you ment it ;)

C - bet you've been waiting all day to say feckless. Made my day. Flex??? :rolleyes: NOT. My gawd that bike is a rocket.


Didn't even need the thesaurus. ;)

[orbea65]

http://www.roadcyclinguk.com/news/images/L1020533.jpg

http://www.roadcyclinguk.com/news/images/L1020524.jpg

http://www.roadcyclinguk.com/news/images/L1020523.jpg

http://www.roadcyclinguk.com/news/images/L1020526.jpg

So, really, how would one travel with, or ship, this type of frame?? It won't fit in any bike box, I assume?

[Too Tall]

Waddyah mean?

[zap]

So, really, how would one travel with, or ship, this type of frame?? It won't fit in any bike box, I assume?

Bigger box or get a Ritchey take apart thing.

[swoop]

So, really, how would one travel with, or ship, this type of frame?? It won't fit in any bike box, I assume?


you'll notice in the early season that a lot of the quick step boys are on their times with the normal seat posts just for this reason.. they are brining thier bikes with them in travel and it's just easier to deal with...
there are some soft boxes you can still squeeze these into depending on how tall the mast is and i suppose in other situations you'll either need a custom case or the box makers will start to offer taller boxes.

[Too Tall]

Welcome to my world :rolleyes:

[swoop]

Welcome to my world :rolleyes:

i can't imagine..... (a towering 5'8" i am).