Damn it! Is this a crack?

[Cicli]

So, finally I got a beautiful frame that fits.
When building the bike I noticed a paint touch up where the seat tube meets the BB shell. No biggie.
After my maiden ride there was some brown funk around the joint. I cleaned it up. Ride two today and the funk is back. Could this be the beginning of the end?
This sucks.

[CNY rider]

Maybe not the beginning of the end.
More like the middle of the end.

[R3awak3n]

well there could be rust under the paint? Definitely needs further investigation though

[Cicli]

well there could be rust under the paint? Definitely needs further investigation though

Yeah, it comes back up after a few miles of riding.

[thwart]

Looks to me like the brazed joint is failing. Perhaps a frame-builder will weigh in.

But it's steel, so repairable.

I'd talk to the person who sold you the bike... may have been unintentional, but the touch-up was covering a significant issue.

[ultraman6970]

Time to remove the paint in the area and check that out with a really good light.

[Cicli]

Time to remove the paint in the area and check that out with a really good light.

I have had it 4 days. I will wait to hear from the seller before I start rippin and tearin.
You never know.

[Peter P.]

It looks like that spot has already been touched up with white paint.

Apply white nail polish over the spot and see if it cracks. That will indicate the joint is moving and yes, cracked.

[zmudshark]

It was my bike, and I removed the paint and checked inside and out for any evidence of a crack. I couldn't find any. I think it was a poor brazing job, but am of course willing to take it back.

[ultraman6970]

Btw is the frame creaking in that stay??? Thats the 1st symptom. If not creaking probably is just a problem if rust from back when the frame was painted the 1st time.

[Cicli]

Btw is the frame creaking in that stay??? Thats the 1st symptom. If not creaking probably is just a problem if rust from back when the frame was painted the 1st time.

What an awesome seller.

[zmudshark]

No creaking. I am taking the frame back, and taking to Matt Assenmacher for evaluation. If it needs repairing, I'll have him do that, and repaint it something other than Mica White and keep it. The color was the reason I sold it, reminded me of my stolen bike when I rode it.

[ultraman6970]

De Rosa?

[David Kirk]

Typically what one will find when the paint is removed is that there is a separation in the braze in that area.

Usually the braze separates due to less than ideal brazing in the first place and this allows some VERY small amount of movement between the two parts and this in time cracks the paint. Once the paint seal is broken moisture gets in and causes the surface to corrode and the paint to lift in the area. This is usually the point at which the owner realizes something is amiss.

Then they chip away at the paint and nothing bad is seen (it is VERY, VERY hard to see the separation) so they clean and put touch up paint on and in time that paint lifts and so on.......

This kind of thing can be fixed and the fix can last a very long time. It's a matter of getting the paint off, getting the dirt/grease out and then reflowing the brazing material. It works most of the time IF the area is super clean. If it's not clean it will bubble and spit and be generally pissed off and at this point the frame is effectively toast unless you want to go to the expense of replacing the tube. If the old tube is removed one can make sure it's perfectly clean and a new tube can be installed. But this isn't free and if the frame isn't worth the cost of the repair/repaint then it might be best to make a lamp of it.

I hope that helps.

dave

[zmudshark]

Typically what one will find when the paint is removed is that there is a separation in the braze in that area.

Usually the braze separates due to less than ideal brazing in the first place and this allows some VERY small amount of movement between the two parts and this in time cracks the paint. Once the paint seal is broken moisture gets in and causes the surface to corrode and the paint to lift in the area. This is usually the point at which the owner realizes something is amiss.

Then they chip away at the paint and nothing bad is seen (it is VERY, VERY hard to see the separation) so they clean and put touch up paint on and in time that paint lifts and so on.......

This kind of thing can be fixed and the fix can last a very long time. It's a matter of getting the paint off, getting the dirt/grease out and then reflowing the brazing material. It works most of the time IF the area is super clean. If it's not clean it will bubble and spit and be generally pissed off and at this point the frame is effectively toast unless you want to go to the expense of replacing the tube. If the old tube is removed one can make sure it's perfectly clean and a new tube can be installed. But this isn't free and if the frame isn't worth the cost of the repair/repaint then it might be best to make a lamp of it.

I hope that helps.

daveThanks Dave. This was my feeling as well. I don't think the frame is cracked, but was not brazed correctly. I'm hoping this is something Assenmacher (who is somewhat local) can do. I'll have him repaint it blue and ride it into the sunset.

[Matthew]

Assenmacher should be able to do it. He has been building/repairing frames for decades now. I had a frame repainted by him a handful of years ago. Does a pretty good job but if you are looking for Top quality you may want to look at others. I was pleased with mine and the price was good considering the work involved. He should be able to fix you up. Matthew

[zmudshark]

Assenmacher should be able to do it. He has been building/repairing frames for decades now. I had a frame repainted by him a handful of years ago. Does a pretty good job but if you are looking for Top quality you may want to look at others. I was pleased with mine and the price was good considering the work involved. He should be able to fix you up. MatthewI know it's not going to be a Joe Bell paint job, but good enough. It will be a MI bike, so it will get chipped up no matter what.

I'm kinda glad it's coming back, it's a wonderful riding frame, as I think @Tihsepa will attest to.

[bikingshearer]

This thread reminds why I like this place. Legit question from tihsepa that stuck to facts and did not go into accusations, stand-up response from zmudshark, great insights from a top-drawer frame builder and from others. All in all, a tremendous example of everyone handling an issue in an adult, Golden Rule way. :beer: to all involved.

[Cicli]

This thread reminds why I like this place. Legit question from tihsepa that stuck to facts and did not go into accusations, stand-up response from zmudshark, great insights from a top-drawer frame builder and from others. All in all, a tremendous example of everyone handling an issue in an adult, Golden Rule way. :beer: to all involved.

POTD.

This is why this place is so awesome.

[dgauthier]

POTD.

This is why this place is so awesome.

Ah, shaddap. :D

Kidding, kidding, kidding... Yes, it is in fact very wonderful. :beer:

[CNY rider]

POTD.

This is why this place is so awesome.

Tis true.
Albeit a total heartbreaker because that is one beautiful bicycle.

[zmudshark]

I honestly think the bike could be ridden for years as is.

[Cicli]

I honestly think the bike could be ridden for years as is.

Thanks. I am bummed though.

Lets leave it at that.
Thanks again for understanding.

[zmudshark]

Thanks. I am bummed though.

Lets leave it at that.
Thanks again for understanding.Me too.

[regularguy412]

This thread reminds why I like this place. Legit question from tihsepa that stuck to facts and did not go into accusations, stand-up response from zmudshark, great insights from a top-drawer frame builder and from others. All in all, a tremendous example of everyone handling an issue in an adult, Golden Rule way. :beer: to all involved.

I'll +1 this.

I've only had a few transactions, over the years, with forumites, but I've NEVER had a bad experience. I've purchased gently used chain rings and a wonderful 1" Serotta TI threadless 26.0 bar clamp stem that was and still is in excellent condition. It's too bad that the CSI it's currently on has kinda been retired due to a questionable BB shell (externally a lil crusty, but thread-wise perfect). It just kept ruining chains cuz I sweat so much, even though I cleaned them religiously (200 miles or so).

Unfortunately, the guys I did business with only four or five years ago seem to never post here anymore.

Mike in AR:beer:

[akelman]

Thanks Dave. This was my feeling as well. I don't think the frame is cracked, but was not brazed correctly. I'm hoping this is something Assenmacher (who is somewhat local) can do. I'll have him repaint it blue and ride it into the sunset.

If you sold the kit already, which I think you may have, I probably have some silver Campy parts for you. Just let me know when the time comes.

[zmudshark]

If you sold the kit already, which I think you may have, I probably have some silver Campy parts for you. Just let me know when the time comes.I did, but still have plenty stashed away.

[akelman]

I did, but still have plenty stashed away.

I should have known!

[thwart]

Zmud's a great seller, always good stuff and fairly priced.

And... the ultimate compliment for someone selling here... he stands behind what he sells.

Maybe that lovely frame was somehow meant to stay in MI.