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View Full Version : Rotor Q rings, SRAM Red, SRAM catcher, Cervelo S5 Chain drop/suck/stuck


fiataccompli
06-10-2016, 02:45 PM
Bearing in mind the subject combination....my race bike (really...pretty much reserved for that only) I just rebuilt after being wrecked last year & not really needing it much for its intended purpose due to a variety of factors (having nothing to do with the bike itself). I purchased it used, but fully functional w/ SRAM Red and a 110 53/36 Rotor Q ring crank setup, in generally workable condition, but about ready for new cables. I had a few issues with chain drop where the chain would go past the catcher and get tightly wedged into place, completely lock the crank & usually require breaking the chain to dislodge. I assumed once fully/freshly cleaned, with new cables & tuning and a re-adjusted chain catcher, I would not have this problem. My 3rd shakedown ride on it yesterday proved otherwise with it dropping twice (truthfully, I'm not 100% certain which direction shift generates it) and getting lodged. The apparent likelihood of having to stop and re-fit the chain in a race makes the bike in effect not a race bike.

So, I can figure out a number of different ways to make this bike reliable. I generally blame the Q-rings and offer the BB area shape of the Cervelo S5 as a contributing factor. I've already had my doubts as to whether I care to keep the Q rings anyway. Nothing I can do about the BB area shape. The crank is a Rotor crank so I suppose others may offer a bit more inner clearance? I guess some blame of the catcher is in order. I didn't have a chance to check to see how much it's out of adjustment now, but surely the act of going past it and trying to work the chain out has screwed that up enough now that there's not much forensic evidence to use.

That's the background. I'm curious whether someone here has a greater wealth of experience than I do with Q-rings, correcting chain drop/using or not using a catcher (I almost think the catcher itself creates this non-recoverable situation)/proper adjustment of the subject setup that perhaps I'm not smart enough to get right yet. If so, i'd love to hear.

Perhaps Q-rings are inherently a complete pain in the neck to tune correctly and I haven't tried hard enough.

I was working on the assumption the previous owner who used the bike for racing did not have this issue (but, then again, it did this basically from day 1)

If this is a phenomenon more associated with chain suck than a front drop when going into the small ring, are Q rings more prone to this as they wear ?(the rings are probably nearing the end of their ideal useful life...thus my earlier thought about just ditching them anyway).

Sorry, that turned out long. If you're still reading & you have some helpful thoughts or want to slap me upside the head for neglecting something totally obvious (wouldn't be the first time!), please let me know. Thanks in advance.

oops, forgot to add: old chain was Shimano, new one is KMC.

Mark McM
06-13-2016, 09:42 AM
I also have a Cervelo S5, and it also suffered from this issue. For some reason, this particular bike is more prone to this problem. As you noted, this is a chain suck issue, so an anti-chain drop device won't solve it.

In my case, I was using a Campagnolo Veloce crankset and chainrings. These chainrings are made by stamping, so the tooth surfaces are rougher and have sharper edges, and this apparently caused the chain to get wedged between the chainrings on front shifts. (Veloce chainrings are thinner and less stiff, and this may have contributed to the problem.) My final solution was to swap the chainrings to Athena/Record chainrings, which are machined and have a slick hard-coating (and are a little thicker and stiffer), which has eliminated the chainsuck.

Based on my experiences, I would look into replacing the chainrings. Worn chainrings are more prone to chain suck to start with, and perhaps the profile of the teeth on Q rings exacerbates the problem.

benb
06-13-2016, 09:59 AM
Huh.. I have a semi similar issue on my relatively brand new Trek Domane. Mine is an issue with the chain coming off the inside of the small chainring. Most of the time the chain catcher works and I don't even have to stop, but last weekend in really tough weather it did jam.

Maybe I need to see if there is a different model chain catcher. (The chain catcher comes with the frame.) Trek doesn't sell any Domanes with 53/39 chainrings. Because I built mine up I was able to use a 53/39 setup which is what I wanted. It makes me wonder if the chain catcher is not sized correctly for the larger inner chain ring. It is adjustable but it doesn't go high enough to stop the chain from coming off, at max height it is just about even with the bottom edge of the chain. I have a 6800 crankset on mine, pretty standard stuff. There's gotta be a way to fix this as there is no way their team riders are riding compacts all the time.

peanutgallery
06-13-2016, 10:02 AM
Wow, thats quite a combo of items that probably all contribute a bit to the issue

New chain rings and try to avoid another 36 if you stick with a 53. That's on the bitter edge

benb
06-14-2016, 01:05 PM
Stopped by the LBS on the way home last night and sure enough there are 2 sizes of chain catchers for the Madone/Domane, etc.. and I had the wrong one.. there is one for 34 rings and one for 36-42 rings and the stock one is the 34 for the Domane.

Big big difference in size.. the chain catcher goes well above the height of the chain now. Hopefully that solves my issues. I will probably lower the derailleur a little too though.. IME when this happens the derailleur is probably mounted a little high and it looks a little high on my bike. My All City & MTB I mounted it according to spec and those literally never chain suck or drop the chain, I can't even remember the last time it happened.. whereas this Domane probably dropped it 10x in the first 1000 miles.

Pierre
06-14-2016, 01:46 PM
Stopped by the LBS on the way home last night and sure enough there are 2 sizes of chain catchers for the Madone/Domane, etc.. and I had the wrong one.. there is one for 34 rings and one for 36-42 rings and the stock one is the 34 for the Domane.

Big big difference in size.. the chain catcher goes well above the height of the chain now. Hopefully that solves my issues. I will probably lower the derailleur a little too though.. IME when this happens the derailleur is probably mounted a little high and it looks a little high on my bike. My All City & MTB I mounted it according to spec and those literally never chain suck or drop the chain, I can't even remember the last time it happened.. whereas this Domane probably dropped it 10x in the first 1000 miles.

The chain catcher is really there for the very occasional chain drop. If it is getting regular use then your limit screw on the front derailleur might be set too far. When in the largest sprocket and the smallest ring the chain should be juuuuust off the inside edge of the derailleur guide. If the derailleur is any further in than that, it's too much.

benb
06-14-2016, 02:05 PM
It's not the limit screw, that's set right.. the height of the derailleur above the rings can also cause it. I think it's a little high on this bike. I've been procrastinating lowering it because the cable got frayed a little when the bike was built (not by me) and I worry that if I detach the cable it might come apart enough I have to replace the cable. And this bike has internal cable routing so a bit of a PITA.

fiataccompli
06-14-2016, 02:44 PM
Thanks for the thoughts/feedback on this. I realized I had a type-o on my post....its 36/52 I have (not 36/53....I normal ride 39/53 but this one is set up to afford more options for evenly wearing out muscle groups while maintaining climbing speed...at least in theory). That said after a little finer adjustment/re-adjustment of catcher, limits & cable along with a few more shakedown rides, it appears to be good now. I probably am nearing the end of the chainring set's life and perhaps I will not replace with Q rings, but at the moment it appears to offer no more risk of failure than the average tube...so OK.


Chris G

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fiataccompli
06-15-2016, 01:34 PM
Oops, I jinxed myself...set out yesterday and had a chain drop. Maybe it was my imagination, but it seemed to drop on an upshift. I'm about to take the catcher off and take it for a spin...not completely sure the catcher is so valuable and I know it prevents simple soft pedaled up shifts to get the chain back on.


Chris G

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