Cross bike slower than road bike

[dana_e]

Same wheels and tires, is the cross bike slower, why is this, wheelbase?

any thoughts

[John H.]

I say it is not slower unless:
1.) Position is different
2.) Has cheaper parts on it
3.) If it is heavier

[JStonebarger]

Body position. I would guess on a 'cross bike body position is both less aero and less capable for pounding absolute watts. Better for handling, though.

[JStonebarger]

Brakes are an aero penalty too.

[sandyrs]

Could be a number of things:

1) Psychological
2) Less familiar handling = slower through corners
3) Geometry puts you in a position that's less aerodynamic and possibly compromises power output. Unless your road position is really extreme this usually isn't necessary but a lot of people do it.

[batman1425]

Slower what? Top speed? Acceleration? Handling?

[sandyrs]

Body position. I would guess on a 'cross bike body position is both less aero and less capable for pounding absolute watts. Better for handling, though.

Beat me to it!

[dana_e]

I have similar positions on road and cross bike, slower on the flat, cross bike is about 1.5 pounds over the road machine

[benb]

Eh.. the cross bike could be better for pounding out watts if the bars are a teeny bit higher and open up the hips. Aero would be the only real penalty though everyone is different. Cross is all about massive watts in between low efforts for technical sections and/or barriers.

I would run the same position anyway.

[Tex Willer]

Handlebar is 1.5cm higher on my cx vs roadbike, this in adfition to taller tires and bb height, I catch a lot more wind which makes me slower


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[Jeff Borisch]

I've wondered the same thing. I'm 5-10 seconds faster on my road bike doing hill intervals that average around 100 seconds. Same average watts for each interval. Same powertap. Same tires. Same weather, yadda yadda.

The road bike is less than 2lbs lighter. That seems like it wouldn't make that much difference over such a short climb.

Maybe the drivetrain is dirtier. Smaller rings and cogs are slightly less efficient, so for the same gear-inches you'd be losing more energy with a 46 ring vs a 53.

With my feeble power though, saving 5 watts would be noticeable.

[AllanVarcoe]

Lower the front end, get more aero.
Maybe saddle height too.
Hows the gearing differ?
Steering may be more slack and BB height higher but shouldn't effect straight line riding.

Could also be those dangerous brake rotors! :eek:

[Mzilliox]

ride it faster then...

[fogrider]

That's why we pay the money for a road bike.

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[shovelhd]

Definitely true for me. It's 3 pounds heavier with a much taller head tube. I can't get any lower. No aero wheels either.

[carpediemracing]

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p206x206/13418940_10154269875338824_8052052376349175293_n.j pg?oh=ad94ca6980b83abf96709263cc5ebcee&oe=57C3D087

The guy to the right is on a cross bike. I don't think it hurt him any.

Wheelbase? My small bike (40 cm seat tube) has about a 102 cm wheelbase due to its long front center. It has 39 cm stays so it would be about 1 cm longer if it had normal length stays. My bike is primarily a crit bike.

I'd guess that the cross bike is a touch less responsive when cornering, mainly because of what I'd presume to be a shallower head tube angle and possibly more trail.

If the bike is set up for cross the front end is usually a bit higher. Perhaps less aero, perhaps less weight on front so less sure in a hard corner.

Higher BB so maybe less stable in turns? Conversely you can pedal through everything. I'm thinking of a 1-2 cm higher BB for my crit bike, for non-cornering reasons.

[benb]

I have never gotten some of these weird fetishes about wheelbase and chain stay length.

I would have no problem entering a crit on my All City Space Horse with the 104cm wheelbase and 44cm chain stays. There is no way that would make much of a difference in my results vs a bike with 98cm wheelbase and 39cm chain stays or whatever it is Cannondale/Specialized say you need for a 56-59cm frame for crits. Heck my other bike is a Domane and it has longer than normal chain stays/wheelbase too and that seems to be no issue in the Pro Tour. (The race shop versions have a lower head tube but that's about it.)

You just push on the bar a little harder when you want to turn quickly. The difference in the speed you can change lean angle is minimal.. the faster steering just seems to be a mental placebo pushed by the cycling press. In the end we are still talking about bikes which weigh almost nothing and all turn in very fast.

[chiasticon]

well what kinda bikes are we talkin about? I mean is the road bike a super aero road machine with 60mm deep wheels and the cross bike a converted steel touring bike with box-section rims? everything makes a difference.

my cx bikes are setup with a more upright position and they're Ti versus my carbon and aluminum road bikes. so a little heavier and less stiff, but a better ride. still, I've set a few climbing PR's on them, over times previously set with the road bikes. don't know that I wasn't hurting more setting them, though...

[dgauthier]

Same wheels and tires, is the cross bike slower, why is this, wheelbase?

any thoughts

What kind of pedals are on the road vs cross bike? Can you put the road pedals on the cross bike and try it out?

In my experience road pedals make a huge speed difference over mountain pedals (but I have only compared really crappy mountain pedals to really nice road pedals).

[benb]

What kind of pedals are on the road vs cross bike? Can you put the road pedals on the cross bike and try it out?

In my experience road pedals make a huge speed difference over mountain pedals (but I have only compared really crappy mountain pedals to really nice road pedals).

I would love to see a believable explanation for that... power #s?

If you said "due to comfort after 5 hours of riding" then it'd be easier to believe. Then again I have had more issues with the road pedals/shoes causing discomfort after many hours of riding!

[veloduffer]

My Moots and Focus cross bikes are 2 lbs. heavier than my Eriksen and Parlee road bikes. When I use my road wheels on the cross bikes, there isn't really a difference except on long hill sessions (weight and road is slightly stiffer frame).

[carpediemracing]

For me the short stays are a result of having the long front center (*edit and the resulting forward weight shift which unweights the rear wheel significantly). Even with normal 40.5 cm stays (which is what was on my Cannondale and is spec'ed on many "racing" road bikes) my back wheel would chatter just coasting in a normal 90 degree turn. Under power it was slipping out. I ordered a second frame with 39 cm stays and that worked out much better. I sent back the first frame to have the stays shortened and that's my primary bike at this point.

The short stays do nothing that I can tell for cornering. However they make the bike super "pointy" (meaning I can point it anywhere) when out of the saddle. That's the huge difference. Plus I like the fact that when I do a hard jump it's easy to lift the front wheel.

The long wheelbase is a bit less pointy but since I'm not doing trials or trails it's no biggy. I can get around a fast crit corner as fast those around me.

[carpediemracing]

What kind of pedals are on the road vs cross bike? Can you put the road pedals on the cross bike and try it out?

In my experience road pedals make a huge speed difference over mountain pedals (but I have only compared really crappy mountain pedals to really nice road pedals).

In my poor years I raced for a while on mtb pedals. Better, I used winter/insulated shoes, because those were the only shoes I had left. My regular mtb shoes were destroyed. Although in the early spring the insulated shoes were okay, by summer they were pretty hot.

Other than hot feet because winter shoes I'd say no real issues with mtb pedals. The mtb shoes were nice, I could walk around before/after races. The pedals were such that I actually put converters on my road shoes so I could mount 2 bolt mtb cleats to my road shoes.

I have since bought different road pedals. They are a bit less wobbly, the mtb pedals had very little surface area supporting my shoe. They also hit the ground quicker than a road pedal.

[denapista]

I know lots of guys who beat their PR's on CX bikes, that were set on road bikes... I chalk it up to, your body being the engine and whatever bike you feel the most comfortable on, will reap the benefits of your engine. Our bodies react to different inputs on the road, a stiff race rocket might make you ease up on rough sections of road. If you're on a cx bike on that same road with plush tires, you'll simply power through it equating a faster time.

My buddies did the Lost and Found race the other day, and (2) of my buddies showed up on loaded 650b rando rigs, and I heard they shredded carbon bikes all day..

[carpediemracing]

Remember that if you compare different people on different bikes you can't compare the bikes very much. It's a correlation thing, not a causation thing.

For example pretty much anyone on any bike will shred me all day. I remember when a rider at school rode by our group (road) ride and he asked if he could join us. I eyed his mountain bike (was one of the long wheelbase things with massive levers and mountain bikes had already progressed to smaller levers, more aggressive geometry, etc), jeans, boots, his massive backpack full of books, etc, and told him yes he could ride with us, mentally noting that we shouldn't go too hard or too far before he got discouraged. He did something like 20 miles with us, hammering us on the climbs. Ended up he was a lower level domestic pro/cat 1 (and former top national level Junior) that had stopped racing due to some physical issues. They obviously didn't hurt him for the 20 mile ride. I had no idea who he was. When he introduced himself I was like, "Oh." I knew the name but not the face.

However that doesn't mean that riding with a mountain bike with 20 lbs of books in a backpack is faster than riding a road bike with just a spare tube and such. Correlation, not causation.

However, comparing me on a cross bike and a road bike, using the same set of road wheels? That's a bit different. I bet I'll be virtually the same, given the same set up. A longer bike might feel a bit odd but performance-wise I don't think it'd affect me very much.

In fact the reason I went from 170 to 175 cranks is I was faster on my mountain bike (2" knobbies, blown out suspension fork, straight bars, etc, but with 175 cranks) than my road bike (TCR, Campy Daytona, Eurus wheels, 170s). Okay, I wasn't faster, but without sprinting out of the saddle, in a head-crosswind, false flat (i.e. slightly uphill) road, I went just as fast on the mountain bike as I sprinted on the road bike just a few days earlier. I ordered the same 175 cranks (branded Athena I think, due to Daytona name issues), and I was much, much faster on the 175s when I went out and did sprints on them. For me set up stuff, like crank length, saddle height, and reach/drop, are most significant. Yes, tires and stuff, but interchanging wheels between two bikes would keep that constant.

*edit however a PR on a cross bike when they tried just as hard on a road bike, that works.