Cutting the Cord experiences

[Onno]

Like others on this forum, I finally took the leap and cut the cable cord. Just nuts to be paying a hundred dollars or more per month for 300 channels when I only want to watch about 10 of them. I've got a Roku stick, decent internet from the cable company (with my own modem and router), subscriptions to Netflix and Amazon, and now CBS and Tennis Channel and a few others. I'm going to get the Tivo Roamio OTA box, which will allow me to record the OTA channels (400 bucks upfront, no subscription). In about 6 months or so, I'll have saved the amount in cable fees that I've spent now.

But I'm still nervous about watching some sports events. I find I watch less and less sports anyway, but some stuff still seems nearly essential, namely Olympics and Tour de France. Both are NBC brands. Is there a way of paying up front for these? I see that NBCsports still requires a cable subscription, but am hoping there are some packages one can pay for.

[daker13]

Just out of curiosity, how do you do the Tennis Channel? I too don't have cable, but use a Roku and mostly watch stuff on Netflix and Amazon. Can I get regular Tennis Channel cable content streaming on the Roku?

[dbh]

NBC Sports had an app for the Tour, which I purchased a few years ago. All in all was pretty good. As for the Olympics, the NBC's OTA coverage is a national embarrassment. During the London games, my brother streamed BBC's coverage using a DNS routing service.

http://lifehacker.com/5930437/how-an-american-can-stream-the-bbcs-official-olympics-coverage-and-overcome-nbcfail

For baseball, I have MLB TV, which is an amazing app and absolutely worth the subscription price if you're a baseball fan. I live in Boston but am a Nationals fan, so no local blackout coverage or game delay for me.

[bobswire]

Maybe Sling TV,which is available with Roku? https://www.sling.com/programming/sports

[Onno]

Just out of curiosity, how do you do the Tennis Channel? I too don't have cable, but use a Roku and mostly watch stuff on Netflix and Amazon. Can I get regular Tennis Channel cable content streaming on the Roku?

You can purchase Tennis Channel Plus for 90 bucks a year. It has an on demand feature, which allows you to view games, although not live. We had to wait a few days to get the French Open final matches, during which we of course learned the results. But the Tivo should fix that problem (we'll be able to record upcoming Wimbledon finals on the network channels).

My wife is the tennis fan. She's kind of annoyed with the cable cutting experiment so far, and doesn't like the minimal (or no!) commentary on the Tennis Channel coverage.

[kurto]

. I find I watch less and less sports anyway, but some stuff still seems nearly essential, namely Olympics and Tour de France. Both are NBC brands. Is there a way of paying up front for these? I see that NBCsports still requires a cable subscription, but am hoping there are some packages one can pay for.

My brother has a normal cable subscription, and I give him a nice six-pack of beer every month for his login credentials that I use for watchESPN and the NBCSports app. If the services would let me pay them (like HBO does), I would, but they don't. I'm sure you have a friend or family member that would hook you up.

[Onno]

I agree about NBC's main Olympic coverage--nearly unwatchable. But last Olympics they had a lot of extra channels that allowed you to watch nearly every sport online. The sailing coverage this way was pretty amazing. But you needed a cable subscription. Hoping they will offer an app for this too.... Looking forward to buying the Tour de France app!

[dbh]

I agree about NBC's main Olympic coverage--nearly unwatchable. But last Olympics they had a lot of extra channels that allowed you to watch nearly every sport online. The sailing coverage this way was pretty amazing. But you needed a cable subscription. Hoping they will offer an app for this too.... Looking forward to buying the Tour de France app!

Given that NBC is owned by the country's largest cable provider, I'm not counting on free streaming Olympics coverage for those who don't subscribe to cable.

Also, Hulu is great for non-sports programming. Well worth the subscription price IMO.

[buckfifty]

NBC's olympic coverage was pretty horrible for London. My brother found a good workaround where he used a VPN service to watch BBC's coverage of the olympics on their site, much better

Sling is a good option, has your ESPN, ESPN2, and I believe ESPNews. HBO Go is a standalone service for just HBO if you want to watch their shows. Also, there's ways to stream live sports over the internet for free if you want to go down that route

[thermalattorney]

A sports-obsessed friend of mine raves about Playstation Vue. You need a PS4 but it's got NBC Sports and the ESPNs for only $35. The largest plan is only $60/mo.

[saab2000]

I have a Roku and it's pretty cool for YouTube and a bunch of other 'channels' like PBS, Vevo (music vids), Smithsonian Channel and a bunch of others.

I have no cable and want zero monthly subscription costs right now. There are a bunch of channels via the Roku with old TV shows and movies. I don't mind the commercials but they're usually at a minutely interval and they just interrupt the program whenever that time comes, not at a natural break in the action.

I took a big pay cut this winter with a job change and am really trying to reduce my monthly obligations. The Roku and a digital antenna get me a fair amount of free content. Of course, I do have my internet at about $35/month, but that's almost unavoidable.

I'd recommend a Roku of some flavor to try out. All the pay apps are there too.

Mostly I'm bummed, like someone else was, that to get some of the cool channels you have to already have a cable subscription. That means I won't be seeing any ESPN or the like because I'm not getting cable.

[eBAUMANN]

It is so easy to stream almost ANY sporting event these days...it has become a non-factor for me in regards to cable.

I just have internet, an apple tv, and an amazon prime account. between netflix and hbo go, i have never had trouble finding something worth watching and (most importantly) NO DAMN COMMERCIALS.

I cant even watch normal "commercial'd" tv anymore, I lose interest immediately when it goes to commercial and end up doing something else instead...which is probably a good thing come to think of it...heh

[Tickdoc]

I'm embarrassed to announce what I pay monthly for my bundle: Phone ( which is only for the alarm co.) Internet, cable with four dvr boxes, and I even pay a little more for increased speed. It's shameful. It's more than I paid for my first apartment.

I need to seriously explore dropping cable. Think of all the bike **** I could buy with that.

[wai2fast]

I picked up a jailbroken Amazon Firestick a few months back loaded up with Kodi and a bunch of other video addons. No monthly fees and all the sporting events, movies, and tv shows to keep me planted to the sofa for hours on end if I chose to.

[gemship]

It is so easy to stream almost ANY sporting event these days...it has become a non-factor for me in regards to cable.

I just have internet, an apple tv, and an amazon prime account. between netflix and hbo go, i have never had trouble finding something worth watching and (most importantly) NO DAMN COMMERCIALS.

I cant even watch normal "commercial'd" tv anymore, I lose interest immediately when it goes to commercial and end up doing something else instead...which is probably a good thing come to think of it...heh

I'm quoting you because you live about 40 miles south of me, lol. I mostly agree with your take on this but I must say where I live half my city can get DSL high speed internet service and the rest of us are stuck with Comcast as our only high speed internet provider. No way around it I pay out aproximately 60 bucks a month and for that I get the economy version of high speed internet a modem lease and what they call basic basic cable tv service. The tv service gives me a few cable channels like CNN and NECN along with everything one could get with rabbit ears. I don't care for the TV service but Comcast explained it to me a long time ago that you save money when you combine services. If I just the high speed internet it would cost me more is what they stated. I really wish there was a more affordable option for just that but I am not seeing it.

[daker13]

You can purchase Tennis Channel Plus for 90 bucks a year. It has an on demand feature, which allows you to view games, although not live. We had to wait a few days to get the French Open final matches, during which we of course learned the results. But the Tivo should fix that problem (we'll be able to record upcoming Wimbledon finals on the network channels)..

Thanks--too much $ for this tennis fan. I used to be able to watch matches on ESPN2 and ESPN3, sometimes live, but that wasn't working the last few times I checked.

[avalonracing]

I'm about to ditch my standard cable package. I've been paying and extra $70 a month for years just to watch Turner Classic Movies. Seriously, that's it.

[commonguy001]

I've been cable/satellite free for just over 3 years and have been trying the Playstation Vue service. It won't work on a Roku box but if you want to watch sports it's by far the best option for a cable like experience.

TDF - check (NBCSN)
Giro and a TON of other races - check (BeINSports)

You can also use your Vue credentials with the NBCSN app to use the App and stream it wherever you are.

Good stuff for 35 a month IMO, you'd just need a Sony PS3/4 or Amazon Fire TV (skip the stick).

[oldpotatoe]

Like others on this forum, I finally took the leap and cut the cable cord. Just nuts to be paying a hundred dollars or more per month for 300 channels when I only want to watch about 10 of them. I've got a Roku stick, decent internet from the cable company (with my own modem and router), subscriptions to Netflix and Amazon, and now CBS and Tennis Channel and a few others. I'm going to get the Tivo Roamio OTA box, which will allow me to record the OTA channels (400 bucks upfront, no subscription). In about 6 months or so, I'll have saved the amount in cable fees that I've spent now.

But I'm still nervous about watching some sports events. I find I watch less and less sports anyway, but some stuff still seems nearly essential, namely Olympics and Tour de France. Both are NBC brands. Is there a way of paying up front for these? I see that NBCsports still requires a cable subscription, but am hoping there are some packages one can pay for.

You can pay and then stream NBC to your laptop/computer then display on your TV(at least I can with computer-AppleTV)

Cut the cable about a year ago..got a wall mounted flat antenna for local stuff..never been happier(and saved about $90 per month). Comcast internet, AppleTV...CBS, NetFlix, HULU, what we pay for...rest is free..use son's Dish log-in for some..

BUT sometimes..PBS just became 'ya gotta donate to watch'...crap. Not gonna pay to watch Antiques RoadShow.

[oldpotatoe]

Given that NBC is owned by the country's largest cable provider, I'm not counting on free streaming Olympics coverage for those who don't subscribe to cable.

Also, Hulu is great for non-sports programming. Well worth the subscription price IMO.

Also Crackle.

[Onno]

So why is Playstation Vue able to stream ESPN and NBCSports for a price but the other services aren't? That's just weird. Why wouldn't NBC want my money?

Obviously things are slowly but inexorably changing in the TV world. I hope it won't be too long before the free market breaks out all over the place, and we can actually get and pay for what we want.

[makoti]

I'd love to drop my Directv. LOVE to. Who among you cable-cutters gets the NFLSunday Ticket and how? Not sure I can live without watching my Chiefs do mind-numbingly stupid things every sunday.

[jlwdm]

I have been looking at cutting cable in the future and the TiVo Bolt seems like a great option for cable and OTA. I have not looked at this in great depth though. I currently have four DVRs through the cable company.

I watch too much tv as I work at home and run the tv a lot while working. I recently dropped Netflix as I felt like there was not much programming I really cared about. I was watching too many 2nd rate movies. I also was getting too many messages that a show was unavailable - some sort of connection problem. I was surprised that Netflix did not ask me why I left.

Now I am trying Amazon Prime and a Roku stick.

Jeff

[malcolm]

I've indirectly asked this in the past, but I'll be more specific.

What do I need to be looking at to eliminate cable?

I've got two kids 15 and 13 that use mostly netflix and the older one watches older tv shows on some app or something.

Currently we have 3 TVs all with their own cable box and they are either smart TVs or have smart DVD players attached. We have amazon prime and netflix.

My wife and I only watch news, HBO, Showtime, FX, PBS and the history channel and discovery.

Most simple and effective options for the technically disinclined???????

thanks

[Onno]

The Roku Stick plugs into the back of your tv, and is 40 bucks. It comes with its own remote, and connects wirelessly to your internet connection (so long as you have a router). Using it, you can select "channels" like Amazon Prime, PBS, Netflix, HBO, etc., but not really the networks (with the exception of CBS, sort of). That's a simple and cheap way to start.

[William]

Been off three or four years now. We just stream Amazon & iTunes as well as what we can access through our BluRay and locally with an antennae. Internet connection is all that's needed here.







William

[steveoz]

I'd really like to cut the cord and take advantage of all this cool new technology..but I don't know any 10 yr old kids to set it up for me..lol!

[Ralph]

Just spent 4 days at my son's house with no cable. only internet. He has Roku, and all the other stuff. Blue tooth's from I phone to screen, etc. We all have smart phones, tablets, so not against tech. At home have 5 TV's on cable with whole house recording.

I felt lost. Don't care anything about movies. I'm a news junky. Felt left out of what is happening around the world. News (Fox, CNN, MSNBC, BBC, etc) Weather, car racing, stock market, etc. Yes....I know it's kinda available other ways....and my son knows how to get it. But to me....not the same. And if I add up the cost of getting info other ways....not much cheaper than cable.

I don't like my cable company, but for me....what is available now ....is not a substitute. And not much savings, unless I cut myself off from world.

[oldpotatoe]

Just spent 4 days at my son's house with no cable. only internet. He has Roku, and all the other stuff. Blue tooth's from I phone to screen, etc. We all have smart phones, tablets, so not against tech. At home have 5 TV's on cable with whole house recording.

I felt lost. Don't care anything about movies. I'm a news junky. Felt left out of what is happening around the world. News (Fox, CNN, MSNBC, BBC, etc) Weather, car racing, stock market, etc. Yes....I know it's kinda available other ways....and my son knows how to get it. But to me....not the same. And if I add up the cost of getting info other ways....not much cheaper than cable.

I don't like my cable company, but for me....what is available now ....is not a substitute. And not much savings, unless I cut myself off from world.

Kinda like aero wheels or not and 'worth' to you. I miss the ease of use of cable. The ability to record, find, view the things we found interesting. But, for us, it was about what we watched vs $. For you, sounds like today, cable is the way to go. But I think eventually, the TV cable will go the way of some bike shops and 'TV' will be internet based.

[Onno]

I'm still feeling a little lost too, as I figure these things out. The cable company has just made things a little more complicated by blocking the OTA signal that we were getting via the cable--that is, the cable was working as an easy and effective antenna, pulling in the local network signals. But those are suddenly gone, so now I'm going to have to buy an outdoor antenna and set that up. I'm beginning to wonder if that's worth it. But I've got the time and zeal still to keep going down this road, so I'll keep pushing. Honestly, one of the things that's really driving me is the idiocy of having to pay for the most expensive tv "package" on cable and satellite providers just to get the one channel (NBCSports) that I want. I find that so outrageous that I'm willing to resist, I guess.

[malcolm]

If I use roku or some sort of device to get the channels I want do I have to buy a TiVo or something similar to be able to record, say set a series to record while you are away??

So to be cable free and still be able to have the few channels I watch, HBO, Showtime, FX, history and discovery.
TV-roku-TiVo and maybe any other app type things that are available though roku like hulu, etc.. Is that it or am I missing something

[paredown]

I'm still feeling a little lost too, as I figure these things out...
What is convenient with cable is a single screen and a single control--turn on one box, grab the remote and your are off and running. With the FIOS we have now they have added the 'stream on demand' to that which works pretty well (although the menu system is clunky).

Once you leave that, a single screen/control is a little harder to do, so it feels a bit random. Once answer is to put a PC at the center. I was an early adopter with Microsoft Media Center--run all your media through a single point (in this case a networked PC)--which included a tuner card. Nice idea--but it was Microsoft, with all the limitations that entails. Others have had good luck with Myth PC (which is the open source version). A third development stream is KODI--which started as a media controller for XBox. You can easily add TIVO-like capabilities (something we have never used), and the addition of a DvD player in the PC, you can lose the dedicated DVR. You can use the same single PC to share your music catalog as well.

My plan is to go back to this using an OTA antenna (local and news channels), and then stream from Netflix (and other sources) using the browser on the PC. PC plugs into the flat screen, and I can control the whole thing with the wireless kb and remote from the MS Media Center package.

We purchased a cheapy powered LEAF antenna from Amazon to try--with some fiddling we can get about 20 local channels.

This is pretty much what we are doing now--and we almost never turn on conventional cable. I just have to figure out the tuner card thing for the little PC since what I had was pre-HD broadcast.

[Onno]

If I use roku or some sort of device to get the channels I want do I have to buy a TiVo or something similar to be able to record, say set a series to record while you are away??

So to be cable free and still be able to have the few channels I watch, HBO, Showtime, FX, history and discovery.
TV-roku-TiVo and maybe any other app type things that are available though roku like hulu, etc.. Is that it or am I missing something

There's no simple answer to these questions. Generally, with Roku and the "channels" you get on it, you don't have to record anything--everything is on demand. There is no, or at least little, live-streaming. You click on HBO, and it lists all the shows and episodes, and you just click on those to watch. Simple. But that's also the drawback. You can't simply tune into what a normal channel is showing 'live.' But there are exceptions--you can tune into a few normal channels with Roku (including a couple of news channels), but you can't, with Roku, record those. With Roku (and other means), you can get Sling TV, which I haven't done yet--but I understand that it lets you get about 20 channels (no traditional network ones, but it does include several of the ones you mention) that will stream live. And I THINK that a Tivo will let you record those.

[Mark McM]

There's no simple answer to these questions. Generally, with Roku and the "channels" you get on it, you don't have to record anything--everything is on demand. There is no, or at least little, live-streaming. You click on HBO, and it lists all the shows and episodes, and you just click on those to watch. Simple. But that's also the drawback. You can't simply tune into what a normal channel is showing 'live.' But there are exceptions--you can tune into a few normal channels with Roku (including a couple of news channels), but you can't, with Roku, record those. With Roku (and other means), you can get Sling TV, which I haven't done yet--but I understand that it lets you get about 20 channels (no traditional network ones, but it does include several of the ones you mention) that will stream live. And I THINK that a Tivo will let you record those.

As above, with streaming the functionality of the DVR is superseded - since you can stream a program at any time, you don't need a local copy of the program.

That being said, there are still advantages to DVRs. Here are a few:

With a DVR you can keep a copy of a program permanently. With streaming channels, content may only be available for a limited time. For example, with Sling TV, content is only available for a few days after the initial broadcast. With services like Netflix, licenses to carry certain content may not be renewed. Many DVRs allow you to transfer programs to a PC, where you can do further editing and archiving.

Advanced playback features are generally more responsive on a DVR. This includes features like rewind/review, fast forwarding, or slow motion. I find the review and slow motion features on my Tivo particularly useful for sports, where I might want to check out a play again.

With streaming services, the streaming provider may force you play commercials or previews, or may disable features like fast forward. With a DVR, you can skip any part of a program you want. In fact, some DVRs have automatic commercial skip features built-in. I find the Tivo commercial skip feature especially useful.

DVRs only work with linear content providers (i.e. cable or over-the-air stations). But the extra functionality a DVR provides may be worth the cost of a cable subscription (it is for me, anyway).

[jh_on_the_cape]

I thought this was going to be about umbilical cords.
It's like cutting squid.

I don't understand how people have time to watch TV. Or if they have the time, they spend it watching TV.

[malcolm]

I thought this was going to be about umbilical cords.
It's like cutting squid.

I don't understand how people have time to watch TV. Or if they have the time, they spend it watching TV.

Because we're all lesser people than those that more productively and wisely use every second of there time.

Thanks for the info and sorry for the stupid questions. I'm just not tech savvy.

So to watch say an HBO series you would just pull up the HBO app and select the episodes from a list sorta like you do with cable if you miss one or to view the older episodes or seasons.

I sling TV a physical box or piece of equipment or an app. It seem like there is a sling icon on my DVD menu??

[Ralph]

[QUOTE= But I think eventually, the TV cable will go the way of some bike shops and 'TV' will be internet based.[/QUOTE]

No doubt....you can already see it happening. And.....Cable is having to compete more and more on price. We're almost to the point with cable where we just buy what we want. And if you give our local cable company a "we're just retired seniors on a budget" pitch, they are lowering rates to some.

The question is....how much longer will we get anything thru a cable in the ground? Cable company stocks are looking bleak, the companies are merging, and future growth not looking good. How much longer will football and car racing make these huge cable deals that lock out everyone else....if that's not where the audience is?

[fuzzalow]

I don't understand how people have time to watch TV. Or if they have the time, they spend it watching TV.

I always deride the statement that there is no time or how people have the time to do things that others find somehow as a less fruitful use of time. It is a form of self-flattery that I believe people use to feel better about themselves. Too busy is a form of self importance. HaHa, if somebody's important they already know it - time is a precious asset but they ain't cryin' about it!

There's time to do what you wanna do. The folks that really have busy professional, personal, or any combination of the two, lives know or learn how to manage time. Because in this constrained world of living, it really is a zero-sum game for the choices made on how to manage and use time. Don't talk about, just do it.

The folks that cry baby about how busy they are or how little time they have are just stroking themselves. Does anyone really care how busy somebody else thinks they are? The only person that can really claim to be busy is the President of the United States of America.

[weaponsgrade]

I cut the cable over 5 yrs ago. My paid subscriptions are Netflix and Amazon Prime. Cycling is covered by cycling torrents. The hard part is trying to watch live mainstream sports like football and basketball (go warriors).

[Onno]

Because we're all lesser people than those that more productively and wisely use every second of there time.

Thanks for the info and sorry for the stupid questions. I'm just not tech savvy.

So to watch say an HBO series you would just pull up the HBO app and select the episodes from a list sorta like you do with cable if you miss one or to view the older episodes or seasons.

I sling TV a physical box or piece of equipment or an app. It seem like there is a sling icon on my DVD menu??

Sling is an "app" or "channel" that you access via the gadget (Roku, or Apple TV, or computer, or whatever). You pay a monthly subscription fee for that (20 bucks a month), just as you do for the HBO service. But there are also free channels on the Roku.

I think if you are not tech savvy, the whole experience could be a frustrating one. You have to commit and allow yourself time and a degree of frustration for a while.

[saab2000]

Sling is an "app" or "channel" that you access via the gadget (Roku, or Apple TV, or computer, or whatever). You pay a monthly subscription fee for that (20 bucks a month), just as you do for the HBO service. But there are also free channels on the Roku.

I think if you are not tech savvy, the whole experience could be a frustrating one. You have to commit and allow yourself time and a degree of frustration for a while.

I'm not super tech savvy and the Roku setup was super easy. The remote is very intuitive, unlike the remotes of most TVs.

The user does need to know how to switch sources on the TV though, between "TV" and "DVD Player" and "Roku". Not that it's not simple, but for the longest time this had me at my wit's end.

Right now I refuse to pay for any content but that may eventually change. I do wish I had some live content. If you are willing to wait until later in the day, you can watch clips from many cable news channels. I wish they streamed them in their entirety though..... I'm a fan of MSNBC's Morning Joe and would like to have it on in the background, even if it's in the afternoon.

[OtayBW]

...Don't care anything about movies. I'm a news junky. Felt left out of what is happening around the world. News (Fox, CNN, MSNBC, BBC, etc) Weather, car racing, stock market, etc. ... And if I add up the cost of getting info other ways....not much cheaper than cable.

I don't like my cable company, but for me....what is available now ....is not a substitute. And not much savings, unless I cut myself off from world.
This is my current situation. I like a lot of the regular program cable news etc. channels and just getting Netflix, HBO, or etc. would get boring for me. Sounds like the only practical way that I know of is to stay with cable. That's tough at the moment because my contract just ended and Comcast jacked the price way up on me. But it sure is p!s$ing me off right now. May have to move over to the Fios trial offer...

[tlittlefield]

This is my current situation. I like a lot of the regular program cable news etc. channels and just getting Netflix, HBO, or etc. would get boring for me. Sounds like the only practical way that I know of is to stay with cable. That's tough at the moment because my contract just ended and Comcast jacked the price way up on me. But it sure is p!s$ing me off right now. May have to move over to the Fios trial offer...

Go to Comcast and complain, they will look at the current specials and lower your rate.

I did just this a couple of months ago when I got an increase and they lowered it by over $60, which was actually less then I was paying before the increase :hello:

[OtayBW]

Go to Comcast and complain, they will look at the current specials and lower your rate.

I did just this a couple of months ago when I got an increase and they lowered it by over $60, which was actually less then I was paying before the increase :hello:
Thanks. Yes - that will be my first thing to do, but you should know a couple of things:

1) the reason that I am with Comcast now is because Verizon pulled the same stunt on me 2 years ago. I tried doing what you suggested with Verizon through five calls to them. The 6th call was to cancel service,
2) the initial contract with Comcast was for 2 years, and after 1 year, they tried to raise my rates. It took me 4 calls to them and my having to FAX a copy of the original service order to them for them to return to my contract rate.

So, I think THEY ALL SUCK and you just have to switch back and forth every 2 years to get their introductory rate. But I will try again.

Thanks for the suggestion.

[oldpotatoe]

I thought this was going to be about umbilical cords.
It's like cutting squid.

I don't understand how people have time to watch TV. Or if they have the time, they spend it watching TV.

Some really good stuff on the 'boob tube'......TED channel, some amazing stuff, plus on NatGeo, PBS, even HGTV, Smithsonian channel...it's not all pamblem for the masses. But your time. :D:D

[witcombusa]

The folks that cry baby about how busy they are or how little time they have are just stroking themselves. Does anyone really care how busy somebody else thinks they are? The only person that can really claim to be busy is the President of the United States of America.

Yes it is a lot of work being involved in screwing over countless millions throughout the world on a daily basis. Well, or at least the illusion of calling those shots. :crap:

[OtayBW]

[/B]

Yes it is a lot of work being involved in screwing over countless millions throughout the world on a daily basis. Well, or at least the illusion of calling those shots. :crap:
Nice......:crap:

[fuzzalow]

Nice......:crap:

Hold on a second. Whether intended or not, witcombusa is right on both counts. There is truth in what he says because it is inherent to the nature and, oddly enough, the limitations in the presidency of the richest and most powerful nation on earth.

[/B]Yes it is a lot of work being involved in screwing over countless millions throughout the world on a daily basis.

True. Because there is no easy decision the president is asked to make as those easy decisions were handled much farther downstream in government. The kind of lose-lose decisions the nobody will touch are the ones that wind up in the Oval Office. Where the outcomes are equally worse on how any of it is decided and the best way forwards is unclear as to the cascading consequences that happen for any chosen or unchosen decision & action.

So, in a manner of speaking, in a complex world with multiple competing and conflicting interests - yes some side somewhere is getting screwed.

Well, or at least the illusion of calling those shots. :crap:

True. The ability of the president to influence events is more limited than the average person is willing to believe. It is a complex world. Domestically limited by the legislative branch and globally limited by the fact that it's a big world. The only area that is as close to being king as the Founding Fathers would allow a president to be is his authority as commander in chief over the nation's military.

No intent in offering a lesson in civics, c'mon this stuff is pretty fundamental. But people can believe in lies and mistruths based on witcombusa's statement because the best lie is one that has some basis in fact. That there might be more to it in real life doesn't mean squat to somebody who doesn't know or doesn't wanna know or has already heard as much as he wants to hear.

"All lies and jest, still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest..."

[OtayBW]

Hold on a second. Whether intended or not, witcombusa is right on both counts.Whether your opinion that he is 'right', as you say, is correct or not, there is an implication in the post of intentional (not inadvertent) 'screwing over countless millions throughout the world on a daily basis' that I reject. Big difference.

"You can't polish a turd (...but you can put glitter on it)."

[fuzzalow]

Whether your opinion that he is 'right', as you say, is correct or not, there is an implication in the post of intentional (not inadvertent) 'screwing over countless millions throughout the world on a daily basis' that I reject. Big difference.

"You can't polish a turd (...but you can put glitter on it)."

Roger that. I was taking and extending the discussion from the oversimplification of what was said. Within the misleading construct that witcombusa may have intended.

I don't need to agree or disagree as the the "right"-ness of what he said but merely discussed the incompleteness and fallacy of his statement. My point being there are truths that for many confer righteousness that exists in every person's view of reality and the world. Whole lotta everything crazy in a world where facts become malleable or distorted to fit what anybody wants to believe.

HaHa, witcombusa have a laugh with me on this one, I can make anything sound boring!

[Tony T]

"Cutting the Cord" has gone "Political"?
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[dave thompson]

"Cutting the Cord" has gone "Political"?
Thread lock in 5….4….3…..2………

What else is new....it's the Internet. Often brings out the worst.