Are expensive bike wheels worth the money?

[fiamme red]

http://www.wired.com/2016/06/expensive-bicycle-wheels-worth-money-lets-check-physics/

[miguel]

difference. From his tests, the rider discovers:


With conventional wheels, he can ride 20 minutes at an average speed of 41.12 kph with an average power of 379 watts.

With the Zipp 808 NSW aero wheels he rides 51 minutes at an average speed of 41.13 kph and average power of 344 watts.

Before looking at power and energy, I should go over two small details.

First, how do you measure power? Cyclists can measure power by installing a small computer, called a power meter, that measures the input torque at the pedals or crankshaft and records the rotation angle at timed intervals. If you know the torque and angle, you can calculate the input energy. Dividing this energy by time gives you power.

La te xi t 1

Second, this isn’t a perfect test of aerodynamics. If you really want to examine the effect of the new wheels, you probably would have to put a bike with a dummy in a wind tunnel. When the reviewer takes his second ride, many things could have changed—wind, body position, amount of sweat on the body—and impacted performance. Let’s assume the only thing that changed was the wheels.
Air Drag and Power

What happens when you ride a bike? If you are moving at a constant speed, then the net force on the bike-human system must be zero. In a slightly simplified view, I can draw the following force diagram:

Spring 2016 Sketches key

The vertical forces (gravity pulling down and the ground pushing up) don’t really matter here. Just forget about them and pay attention to the horizontal forces. First, let’s look at the air drag. Air acts in complicated ways when an object passes through it. But who cares when we can make a simple model of air drag force? Here’s an expression for the magnitude of this force:

La te xi t 1

In this model, the air force is proportional to the square of the bike’s speed (v). For the other terms, we have:

ρ is the density of air (around 1.0 kg/m3).
A is the cross sectional area of the bike plus the rider (how much of the object interacts with the air).
Finally, C is the drag coefficient. This parameter depends upon the shape of the object. If you change the wheels, it is the value of C that should change.

The second horizontal force is the frictional force. An interaction between the road and the tires propels the bike. I know what you’re thinking: Doesn’t the human propel the bike? In a sense, yes. But the reality is sort of complicated. The rider’s power goes through the pedals and chain to the wheel, which turns. But the force comes from the tire pushing against the road. So for our energy perspective on this problem let’s just say the human provides the friction force.

Clearly the faster the biker goes, the more human-push will be required. But what about energy? If I have a force pushing in the same direction as the motion of the object, then the work done (by the human) can be calculated as:

La te xi t 1

In this expression the value of s is the distance over which the bike moves. Since the frictional force must be equal in magnitude to the air resistance force, I can write the work as:

La te xi t 1

Since I really want an expression for the power I can use this work as the change in energy and divide it by some time interval Δt:

La te xi t 1

The value of s divided by Δt is the same as displacement divided by the change in time. This is the definition of average velocity. We get a power expression that doesn’t depend on the distance, just the cube of the velocity.
The Aero Wheel Data

Got all that? Great. Let’s now apply it to the data from the video. Assuming that the wheel (and the power) was the only thing that changed, what does this say about the wheel? I will call the power required for the normal wheel P1 and the power for the aero wheel P2. The ratio will be:

La te xi t 1

With the two power values from the video of 379 and 344 watts, this puts the value of the drag coefficient for the aero wheels at 0.908 C1. That seems nice. But let’s see how much it would matter for mere mortals.

The cyclist in the video had a speed of about 41 kph (11.39 m/s, or 25.48 mph). What if a more ordinary human rides at 30 kph (8.33 m/s or 18.64 mph)? What kind of power savings would that person see? Granted, I don’t know the drag coefficient nor the cross sectional area. Let me call all of this (along with the density) some value K. With his values for speed and power, I get a K (normal wheel) value of 0.256 kg/m.

For a normal human riding at 8.33 m/s (again, 18.64 mph, with the same bike and size as the reviewer), I get a power requirement of 148.0 watts. If I decrease the K value to 0.908*0.256 kg/m = 0.232 kg/m, I get a power requirement of 134.1 watts. At this slower speed, you see a power savings of 13.9 watts compared to the high performance savings of 35 watts.

But what about the total energy used? If you look at the test in the video, the guy rode at 379 watts for 20 minutes. This is a total energy use of 4.5 x 105 Joules (107 food calories). For the longer ride he was at a lower power of 344 watts but for 51 minutes. This is total energy of 1.05 x 106 Joules (251 food calories). I find it interesting that humans aren’t limited by total energy output as much as how quickly they use that energy. But still, he burned just a candy bar worth of energy.

Which brings me back to the original question: Are these wheels worth it? Well, that clearly depends on how much value you put in both speed and in dollars. These wheels, which, according to a quick Google search, cost as much as $3,400, really make a difference only if you routinely achieve high speeds for long periods. If so, these wheels (or wheels like them) may provide the slight edge that brings victory. If not, you might as well save that money for candy bars.

TLDR: YES IF YOU ARE FAST ALREADY AND HAVE THE MONEY

[joosttx]

Bora Ultra II 35 are the best purchase I ever made for a bike. Less than EPO buying a pair of bora's is the best way to go faster road riding.

I hope the math and logic was too confusing.

[pdmtong]

Bora Ultra II 35 are the best purchase I ever made for a bike. Less than EPO buying a pair of bora's is the best way to go faster road riding. I hope the math and logic was too confusing.

I got the Bora One 35 and same experience...absolutely game changing in a way I could not believe nor did I expect.

[fogrider]

I ride various wheels on the week days, for the weekends, the weapon of choice: reynolds 45 tubulars. on windy days, I switch out the front wheel to a lower profile rim. yes there is a difference...and yes, it looks fast.

[Elefantino]

Paint me as cynical or cheap, but spending $3,000-$4,000 on a set of wheels should automatically come with a marked increase in performance.

[guido]

An aerodynamic helmet or TT bars are much more effective than a wheel upgrade at a fraction of the price.

[FlashUNC]

Depends on the wheels. Boras and Hyperons? Yes.

[beeatnik]

TLDR: YES IF YOU ARE FAST ALREADY AND HAVE THE MONEY

Simon!

And Boras are not fast wheels. I mean they're fast when you're putting down 1800 wattz in a sprint; otherwise, they just feel good.

[ergott]

An aerodynamic helmet or TT bars are much more effective than a wheel upgrade at a fraction of the price.
Unless you already have the aero helmet and can't use TT bars because it's a ride/race with a group and they are banned.

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[bart998]

Like most things... there is a point of diminishing returns. Most people would be best served by mid-range models. Cheap is usually just that, junk. Whereas only top-level athletes can usually squeeze enough extra performance out of top-line stuff to justify the increasingly steepening cost/benefit curve.

[regularguy412]

Like most things... there is a point of diminishing returns. Most people would be best served by mid-range models. Cheap is usually just that, junk. Whereas only top-level athletes can usually squeeze enough extra performance out of top-line stuff to justify the increasingly steepening cost/benefit curve.

Agreed. Unless, of course, you manage to find a good deal on some top line or near top line wheels. Luckily, I did just that. I own two sets of 'boutique' wheels -- Easton EC90SL carbon tubular 38mm depth .. ~$1045.00 shipped /MSRP $1899.00. Other set is Mercury M5 55mm depth carbon clinchers.. $809.00 shipped/MSRP $2499.00. I just couldn't justify spending north of $6K on Lightweights -- especially when the weight savings between them and the Eastons was so slight (set: ~1250gm EAston vs. set: ~1000gm Lightweight). Additionally, the Eastons (and Mercurys too) have steel spokes. So.... much easier to repair, if necessary.

So my answer is 'Yes'. Get as good a wheel set as you can afford. Life is too short to ride run-of-the-mill wheels all the time.

Mike in AR:beer:

[Mr. Pink]

But, life can be long, and you don't want to spend the end days under a bridge with a stray dog.

[carpediemracing]

If a person can afford it and they want it at some psychic level then it's worth it.

For me I'm too cheap. My perceived max value on even a fancy set of carbon wheels is about $800. I don't think I could pay more than that, and if I could get away with paying $300-400 per wheel that would be closer to what I consider to be a good return for the money.

Having said that I'd say that after a frame that fits and a powermeter my next splurge would be aero wheels. Forget fancy stems, bars, pedals, etc.

Wheels seem to offer a good return on aero gains. Wheels can really sail in the right wind. Bars, helmets, etc, cannot sail, at least not to the point of becoming negative drag items like some wheels.

Of course this is for me, meaning for racing or for doing short intense efforts. I don't care about much else on the bike.

I tell budding racers you can get a 105 (or Force? I don't know SRAM) bike that fits, good wheels, and you're 99% there in terms of being competitive in terms of equipment. There isn't much actual competitive advantage with stuff like electronic shifting, lighter or more durable components, etc. My main bike happens to be a mix of mainly Chorus and Record but it has Centaur shifters, Centaur or worse cassettes, a $45 full retail bar, etc. It has big wheels. It's fine for Cat 3 racing, and, probably, for Cat 2 or even Cat 1 racing. For me the limiter is the engine, aka me, not the bike.

[Erik_A]

My guess is that if you went with a used set of Mavic Cosmic alloy wheels, that you would be 90% there.

[Ti Designs]

An aerodynamic helmet or TT bars are much more effective than a wheel upgrade at a fraction of the price.

Yeh, but which one makes you look like more of a Fred?

[ergott]

You certainly don't have to spend $3-4k for the kind of performance discussed in that article. One doesn't need to go any further than a set like Boyd makes http://www.boydcycling.com I can honestly say the rim quality is on par with Zipp and Enve. The pricing is half. I have a set of 44mm tubular rims from Boyd on my own bike.

PS - Boyd is a great guy to work with. He's always trying to improve his wheels and offers excellent customer service.

:beer:

[ergott]

Yeh, but which one makes you look like more of a Fred?

Only Freds use that term. People ride whatever. If a person is outside on a bicycle the last thing I'm going to do is ridicule them.

Seriously, we need to get over this idea that you can evaluate someone based on a quick glance.

[Likes2ridefar]

According to this article, shoe covers make more of a difference than even a disc wheel

http://cyclingtips.com/2010/04/biggest-bang-for-your-buck-in-time-trial-equipment/

[ergott]

According to this article, shoe covers make more of a difference than even a disc wheel

http://cyclingtips.com/2010/04/biggest-bang-for-your-buck-in-time-trial-equipment/

Yes, but it's not the case of one or the other. You can use both shoe covers and fast wheels.

[Likes2ridefar]

Yes, but it's not the case of one or the other. You can use both shoe covers and fast wheels.

Of course you can, but it makes you consider the wheel's worth as the title of this post is asking.

I've always wondered how aero wheels perform in a peloton vs a typical high quality wheel.

[benb]

Threads like this always make me think the forum needs some kind of badges for weight/body fat/miles rode per year or something as all these equipment things mean different things to different people.

I don't even have a really nice set of alloy wheels right now. I think my lightest wheelset is about 1700-1800g. I wanted to buy something before the ride I'm doing this upcoming weekend but it didn't happen. (edit: Actually I have Crossmax XLs on my MTB, that's my nicest set of wheels right now and I've rode the MTB like once this year.) My main set of wheels for the road is 32 spokes f/r w/Ultegra Hubs & Mavic CX22 or something like that. My other set has Tiagra hubs and some super beefy Weinmann rim with 32 spokes. All my wheels have been bullet proof. The Crossmax wheels are from 2008 and have never been trued, the Ultegra 32 spoke wheels are from 2011 and haven't been worked on since right after I bought them, and the Tiagra wheelset has never had to be trued, and those go offroad constantly.

[shovelhd]

No palmares pics, I promise. :)

You can have light wheels, aero wheels, or cheap wheels, pick two. My fastest wheels are 56mm generic rim clinchers at $545/pr. At 27mm wide they are in the 1650g range naked so not very light. They are fast, though. Almost as fast as my old Zipp 606FC tubulars.

[fa63]

Threads like this always make me think the forum needs some kind of badges for weight/body fat/miles rode per year or something as all these equipment things mean different things to different people.

I don't even have a really nice set of alloy wheels right now.

And you go as fast as anyone around town? Maybe I missed the point trying to be made.

[Climb01742]

You certainly don't have to spend $3-4k for the kind of performance discussed in that article. One doesn't need to go any further than a set like Boyd makes http://www.boydcycling.com I can honestly say the rim quality is on par with Zipp and Enve. The pricing is half. I have a set of 44mm tubular rims from Boyd on my own bike.

PS - Boyd is a great guy to work with. He's always trying to improve his wheels and offers excellent customer service.

:beer:

Eric, Do you have any experience with November wheels/rims? Curious how you think they compare to Boyd? Both seem like companies serious about quality at an affordable price, and committed to doing right by their customers.

[eBAUMANN]

ill echo what ergott said above - there is no reason to spend huge money on wheels these days, so many great options at almost every price point.

also, "expensive" is a very relative term.

with today's 2nd hand market being what it is, you can get almost any fancy wheelset for under $1k if you are patient and know where to look.

[MattTuck]

Only Freds use that term. People ride whatever. If a person is outside on a bicycle the last thing I'm going to do is ridicule them.

Seriously, we need to get over this idea that you can evaluate someone based on a quick glance.

Usually, I would agree with you. however, I saw the dreaded "bibs being worn over the jersey" this weekend, and let me tell you, I evaluated... right or wrong.

Fortunately, I passed him pretty quickly.

[benb]

And you go as fast as anyone around town? Maybe I missed the point trying to be made.

That the discussion is meaningless without knowing the level you're riding at.

I mostly see these wheels under slow guys. Any benefit is tagged to the level you can ride at without them. Lots of the fastest people I know don't have any carbon high zoot rims.

The original post article was discussing the wheels benefit under someone who probably has an FTP about 325w and having watched his videos he doesn't weigh much.

Please raise your hand if you're that strong when discussing this.

[carpediemracing]

I've always wondered how aero wheels perform in a peloton vs a typical high quality wheel.

I've raced "high quality wheels" back in the day, and now do more aero ones (some that I've built) more recently.

I don't have much data to back this up so this is all anecdotal. However I'm a pretty good test of marginal gains because I have such poor aerobic power. I'm at the cusp of getting dropped in virtually every race I do, even the ones where I do well.

It seems that aero wheels do help in a race, at least for me. There's a minimum amount of power necessary to go certain speeds. If the field is going fast enough then I'm going to have problems just holding wheels. Actually I have problems even with aero wheels, but the aero wheels bring me up just a mph or two.

Consider that 1 mph is 1.5 feet/sec. Lose just a couple mph as the field stretches out and you'll lose a few feet every second. In a few seconds you'll be gapped off the wheel in front of you, and if you're already struggling, at the back (which describes me most of the time when I'm in a race) then you're done.

Consider also that if you are gapped off, you need to get back on as quickly as possible. With aero wheels you have a slightly better chance of getting back on. I've been in that situation as well, trying to recover just a fraction as a gap opens up either directly in front of me or a rider or three in front of me. Then, 5-10 seconds after the gap has opened, I'm good enough to get across the thing. Aero wheels will help here as well.

There is a balance between weight and aero for me. I have substantially heavier aero wheels - clinchers, with heavy tires, which weigh about 3 lbs more than my matching tubulars. They have the same hubs, same spokes, basically the same cassette, so it's all in the rim/tire combo. I had significant problems staying in the Tues Night races with the clinchers. I switched to the tubulars and was much better racing the same course against mostly the same racers, just a week later.

Sitting deep in the field, I think big aero wheels won't make a huge difference. Sitting at the side of a field? Moving up along or inside a field? I think it makes a difference.

At the end of a race there's definitely some benefit, when the field sprints for the line. Again, at 1.5 feet per second for 1 mph, with short sprints being 10 seconds, that's 15 feet for just 1 mph. I think aero wheels are worth about 2-4 mph at normal sprint speeds. When you consider that sometimes it's a bike throw that determines a place, and at most that's about a foot or two over maybe a 10-15 second sprint, that's just 0.1-0.2 mph.

Finally, as a Cat 2 friend and teammate once advised me on wheels. "If you spend that money on wheels will you win that much more prize money?" Ha. No. But, man, it's fun riding those wheels, and that's what it's all about.

[fa63]

Sure, you benefit more if you can ride faster. But that doesn't mean an average rider can't enjoy the benefits as well.

For example, an average Joe might be riding in a paceline where one has to take a pull every so often. You are then riding at a higher wattage for a shorter period of time. In such a case, saving 35 W (such as the case in the video) could be the difference between being able to hang on or getting dropped.

[superbowlpats]

ill echo what ergott said above - there is no reason to spend huge money on wheels these days, so many great options at almost every price point.

also, "expensive" is a very relative term.

with today's 2nd hand market being what it is, you can get almost any fancy wheelset for under $1k if you are patient and know where to look.

^This.

[FlashUNC]

Ride what you want to ride and what you like. Life's too short.

[fiamme red]

Ride what you want to ride and what you like. Life's too short.It's good to be educated enough to make informed decisions. For a top-level racer, where the difference of a few watts is important, it may be worthwhile to spend a lot more on wheels. For a Cat. 4 or club rider, it may be worth spending a little more on wheels in order to go faster, not a lot more. The article in Wired is helpful because it analyzes the choices from a physics perspective.

[benb]

Eh.. so Simon's FTP is probably closer to 350W. He was averaging 25mph for an hour there. He's pretty damn fast. (Didn't realize he had a National Championship!)

Impressive & nasty workout he did in that video, but who knows how the wind could have changed or anything else. It looked like a wide open course that would have dramatic wind effects. Could the wheels be worth 35w? Maybe, who knows.

The 35w is not going to be there unless you can hold the 350w. I can hold that for 5-10 minutes if I turn myself inside out. It'd be nuts for me to pull that long in group that fast. As soon as I pulled off I'd be way down around 150w. The 350w is going to be well above threshold regardless of whether I had those super spiffy wheels and it's going to hurt a lot. Taking stupid long pulls is one of the biggest mistakes you seem to see people make when they're not in a race. (Seems like everyone figures it out really fast once they are actually racing.)

[fa63]

You don't need to take stupid long pulls. Taking even a one minute pull at say, 275 W instead of 300 W, is a lot nicer. Especially if you are having to repeat that every few minutes.

[benb]

You don't need to take stupid long pulls. Taking even a one minute pull at say, 275 W instead of 300 W, is a lot nicer. Especially if you are having to repeat that every few minutes.

That's still quite a long pull.. maybe realistic in a small breakaway?

The better question for me would be how much coaching can I buy for the cost of those wheels? Sounds like several seasons + a PM. I know what I'd buy first. (Another factor in, "this conversation depends on your situation".) Threshold already 300w+? Already have a PM? Already have a coach? Racing? Then maybe the wheels start to make sense.

[FlashUNC]

It's good to be educated enough to make informed decisions. For a top-level racer, where the difference of a few watts is important, it may be worthwhile to spend a lot more on wheels. For a Cat. 4 or club rider, it may be worth spending a little more on wheels in order to go faster, not a lot more. The article in Wired is helpful because it analyzes the choices from a physics perspective.

And yet so many decisions on bike crap are made with the heart rather than the head. This forum is littered with examples.

If someone wants Lightweights and it gets 'em out riding, so be it. If reading the spreadsheet of wattage savings across wheelsets gets someone out riding, so be it.

[fa63]

That's still quite a long pull.. maybe realistic in a small breakaway?

The better question for me would be how much coaching can I buy for the cost of those wheels? Sounds like several seasons + a PM. I know what I'd buy first. (Another factor in, "this conversation depends on your situation".) Threshold already 300w+? Already have a PM? Already have a coach? Racing? Then maybe the wheels start to make sense.

Or if you have the money, you buy the wheels and enjoy the free watts :D

I see what you are saying, but I think it is fair to say that for those who have the financial means, the first instinct is to buy the "free speed". Because training with a coach and PM is a lot more painful :D

Disclaimer: my FTP is 275 W and I no longer own aero wheels.

[Mzilliox]

Ride what you want to ride and what you like. Life's too short.

this!!! they are acting like speed gains is the only reason for a bike upgrade...
thats missing the mark in terms of why 90% of aftermarket products are purchased. Its because we like them. we like how they look or FEEL on our bike as well as any marginal speed gains. we like to be like the pros. and some of us just like fine tools, even if we can't use them to their full ability. I know i do. Also, some of us don't spend extra money on anything but bikes, so why not?

I buy high end fly rods but will never win a distance casting championship. who cares, thats not the point for me. i fish well and often, and i love to use a fine tool vs a mediocre tool when fishing. it adds that much more enjoyment. i also like to fish my own flies which are "too fancy" to fish.

So stop talking about wheels like they are all about speed gains. you miss more than half the point.

best

Matt

[beeatnik]

or to paraphrase Chris Rock, you can drive with your feet, don't make it a good phuking idea.

Anyway, I'm kinda w/ TiD on this one

not uncommon for expensive equipment (mainly wheels, IMO) to have the opposite effect. aero wheels dont make you faster and they don't lower the pain of climbing a 6% grade at 6mph. so, instead of increasing enjoyment or providing a quantifiable performance gain, the wheels only add to the frustration of being an average cyclist. then, many cats end up riding less and less or move on to other cool hobbies such as crossfit (haha). anyway, i'd never advise any friend looking to ride a few hours weekly or to do the occasional charity ride or fondo to buy any wheelset over $500. a bike that fits, the right saddle, some coaching and comfortable clothes. then on every ride you can feel (at least feel) a little like Cancellara.

[Likes2ridefar]

I'm not really sold on expensive wheels making you faster in most situations.

I think they look pretty cool on modern carbon bikes. Buy them for that. Some carbon wheels I've ridden on, like the Black INC carbon clinchers, ride better than the best al wheels I've been on. They handle better because I think they are stiffer. They also feel a tiny bit smoother. Others, like the current reynolds attack wheels I have, ride worse than the best I've used.

I raced for 4 or 5 years and the last two were at a pro level (wannabe style mostly unsupported besides free gear and travel) and even at that level I do not believe for a second any race was won or lost because of fast wheels. I saw guys in brazil crushing it on what most here on this forum would call a beater bike. How many racers in the states ride a bike with tiagra components and scratched up aluminum bike with dented aluminum wheels? It didnt hold those guys back on 20km climbs in the mountains...

At my peak I had a 400w threshold and weighed about 155lb. Many here keep mentioning watts but besides a flat course watts are meaningless without some w/kg info. I mostly raced on aluminum wheels and they didn't keep me from winning. I even won a stage race in Thailand with tons of climbing with HED belgium wheels and the rear had a boat anchor power tap in it.

W/kg is what it's all about, and those few gained from the wheels will never make up the difference. ONLY at a pro tour level, maybe, could those few make the difference on a TT stage but even then I dont think so. There are just too many factors to take into account.

If a disc wheel is outperformed by a shoe cover by a large margin, how would a 40-80mm wheel fair?

Compared to the better aluminum wheels like an ultegra or pacenti SL23 wheel, I bet the gains are insignificant in all but the most competitive scenes.

[Tickdoc]

This thread makes me love my new to me used Campy Neutrons so much more.

I paid nothing for them after someone else enjoyed them first. They roll like crazy, weigh next to nothing, and are bulletproof.

I have a set of Enve's that are a little lighter, and probably a little faster, but no more enjoyable. Coulda bought like eight more pair of neutrons for what my enve's cost new, just to hammer home the insanity of this lightweight wheel debate. And yet I still want to try some bora's :eek:

[ergott]

Eric, Do you have any experience with November wheels/rims? Curious how you think they compare to Boyd? Both seem like companies serious about quality at an affordable price, and committed to doing right by their customers.

Nice rims, I rode a set on D2R2 one year. One advantage Boyd has is more rim depth choice if that matters.

[benb]

Anyone else think the Zipps in the video are ugly? Those are too deep for me aesthetically if we were going down that road, especially on a metal bike.

[Likes2ridefar]

For looks on a modern bike i think the sweetspot is 40-50mm. That way everyone knows you dropped the $ on carbon, or at least exalith with fairings (all black like carbon) since no al wheels are that deep.

I had 45mm carbon clinchers on a serotta csi for awhile. They didnt look out of place. However, i think the pacenti wheels looked better.

[KJMUNC]

I recently bought Fulcrum Racing Light XLR wheels....yeah they're crazy light and durable, and yeah I do go faster on them uphill, but I never rode exclusively uphill so I'm going to sell them as I just can't justify the cost when I already way 195lbs.

[AllanVarcoe]

Some deep fat bike wheels would be sweet!:hello:

[Climb01742]

Some carbon wheels I've ridden on, like the Black INC carbon clinchers, ride better than the best al wheels I've been on. They handle better because I think they are stiffer. They also feel a tiny bit smoother.

Wish I had jumped on that pair you sold recently. As others have said, buying used is the smart way to experiment.

[Likes2ridefar]

Wish I had jumped on that pair you sold recently. As others have said, buying used is the smart way to experiment.

For the price, they were a steal. Ridden most the big brands, and they were the best so far. This is vs enve 45, zipp 404, various reynolds, lightweight, and a few others.

I regret selling them and equally regret buying the reynolds attack. They were used so can probably resell them for not much if any hit. The attacks, one generation before the the current model, handle like a wet noodle when riding hard around corners that are fast and bumpy, and have an annoyingly loud rear hub. I weigh 160 so dont think im anywhere near their weight limit.

I may try the boyd 45 clincher next.

[Climb01742]

I may try the boyd 45 clincher next.

Yes, the Boyds are tempting. I've heard only good things about the wheels and the company.

[saab2000]

Yes, the Boyds are tempting. I've heard only good things about the wheels and the company.

As well you should. I sort of know Boyd from bike shows and riding together a few times and he's a super nice guy and cares a lot about what he sells.

I browse his stuff all the time.

[UKBROOKLYN]

I got the Bora One 35 and same experience...absolutely game changing in a way I could not believe nor did I expect.

Statements like this mean nothing unless we know what you are comparing the Boras to...

[Erik_A]

Yes: http://www.wired.com/2016/06/cycling-physics-extra-mass-bike-wheels-enemy/?mbid=nl_62716_p6


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[oldpotatoe]

Yes: http://www.wired.com/2016/06/cycling-physics-extra-mass-bike-wheels-enemy/?mbid=nl_62716_p6


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ya know, I was gonna say the same thing....:beer:

[cash05458]

"Usually, I would agree with you. however, I saw the dreaded "bibs being worn over the jersey" this weekend, and let me tell you, I evaluated... right or wrong."

Fortunately, I passed him pretty quickly. ...

This weekend out on a ride I saw something that, quite frankly, I did not think could actually exist...a group of about 8 guys in full gear and snazzy bikes riding on wrong side of road, against traffic...I have seen single dummies doing this...but think of the chance of all eight not knowing...it defies odds even accounting for the deep algebra of human stupidity...pretty sure they were Canadians...:beer:

[CampyorBust]

Some deep fat bike wheels would be sweet!:hello:


http://i1106.photobucket.com/albums/h372/pinchegato323/ALADDIN/images4.jpg
Do you have a color preference?
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http://fat-bike.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/nextie-wheels.jpg
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j60/ozzybmx/bike%202/nextie_zps6a3f81df.jpg
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http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa435/professorbrackets/Gifs%20-%20Celebratory/applause.gif

[William]

But, life can be long, and you don't want to spend the end days under a bridge with a stray dog.

Why not??? I like dags!




:D
William

[fa63]

I got these wheels recently:

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160630/857b3123fb603eba66ad9d1d03f45869.jpg

On my first ride, I got dropped faster than I ever have on an uphill section :D Then on the same ride, I set some PBs while chasing (including one decent climb).

In short, more testing needed. But they ride nicely.

[malcolm]

And yet so many decisions on bike crap are made with the heart rather than the head. This forum is littered with examples.

If someone wants Lightweights and it gets 'em out riding, so be it. If reading the spreadsheet of wattage savings across wheelsets gets someone out riding, so be it.

Exactly. If I made my cycling purchases based on my ability or speed I'd be riding a schwinn cruiser.
I mostly ride mountain. I've got a Ti hard tail with lefty fork and ergott built enve 60/40s. I also have a pivot mach 429 that I may be upgrading to enves. I certainly don't need or deserve either, but it's what I like and I'm grateful to be able to afford it and it brings me joy. Case closed.