More Lance

[LegendRider]

Off the top of my head, I recall the following allegations regarding Lance & doping:

- Swart: former Motorola teammate claims to have done EPO with him
- Andreus: claim he admitted to taking PEDs in the pre-cancer days
- O'Relly: former soigneur claims she was asked to dispose of needles discreetly
- L'Equipe: claimed Lance's 1999 urine samples contained EPO
- Mike Anderson: former assistant/mechanic claims to have found steriods in Lance's possesion.


Other accusations, circumstantial evidence, etc.
- L'Equipe: found Actovegin in USPS trash
- Former teammates busted for doping at some point in their careers: Hamilton, Heras

I have given Lance the benefit of the doubt in the past, but I can no longer believe all of this can be explained away.

[atmo]

c'mon will ya'!
the effin' guy is apoplectic.
that speaks volumes atmo.

[LegendRider]

c'mon will ya'!
the effin' guy is apoplectic.
that speaks volumes atmo.

You gotta remember that I'm an antidisestablishmentarian.

[atmo]

You gotta remember that I'm an antidisestablishmentarian.
i'm 53.

[stevep]

c'mon will ya'!
the effin' guy is apoplectic.
that speaks volumes atmo.

he should take something to calm down... maybe he has something lying around from his bike racing days.

[sspielman]

... maybe he has something lying around from his bike racing days.

Sheryl Crow?

[Endless Goods]

Why does everyone "believe" or give the "benefit of doubt?"

Remember when Tyler's case first hit...then you see the pics of faxes/bills sent to his wife on Velonews yesterday...

Makes you wonder...

[dbrk]

he should take something to calm down... maybe he has something lying around from his bike racing days.


He should have taken the anhalonium lewinii, gone for a ride with Casteneda, and gone apologetic...I mean, he'd not been apoplectic...I mean...oh well, he's retired, perhaps I should too. Wait...I have to work for a living...what feckless calumny! such contretemps! Alas, another conterminous Lance thread! Makes me wanna plotz!

dbrk

[Fixed]

yeah bro what the prof. said .. ......what did he say?but i'm sure it was right
cheers

[Johny]

Why does everyone "believe" or give the "benefit of doubt?"

Remember when Tyler's case first hit...then you see the pics of faxes/bills sent to his wife on Velonews yesterday...

Makes you wonder...


It's not cheap...

[harlond]

Here's where I think I am on the Lance thing:

1. I believe he used PEDs, not necessarily because the evidence against him is overwhelming or so extensive, but because . . .
2. I believe everyone in the peleton uses PEDs--they work, so if you don't use them, you don't maintain your level relative to other riders.
3. Since everyone uses them, it's as level a playing field as it can be.
4. Because it's a level playing field, Lance did not have an unfair advantage over other riders (apart from his freakish physiology)--Like Swart himself said, if everyone's doing it, Lance is the best, and if no one is doing it, Lance is still the best (in his chosen race). Lance didn't cheat his fellow riders, even if he violated anti-doping rules. (I see you raising your hand there, Mr. Moreau, and maybe you have a point, I just don't know.) Whether Lance cheated the fans is something every fan must decide for himself.
5. Since everyone uses PEDs, ANYONE's past victories can be denigrated, but since it's a level playing field, such denigration cannot result in the identification of some other rider who deserved to win because he was clean. In this sense, L'Equipe's focus on Lance is a witchhunt, not because he's innocent or the evidence against him is faulty, but because the result of demonstrating that Lance used PEDs cannot disclose injustice or unfairness and serves little purpose other than to taint fairly-won and hard-earned victories.

While I am unpersuaded that doping raises any moral issues, this is not to suggest that a blind eye be turned to doping. An appropriate level of enforcement is required. I think the use of criminal sanctions and quasi-criminal investigative techniques may be excessive, and I wish the authorities would develop a fair means of securing compliance that does not drag practically every star of the sport through the mud. Mainly, I wish we could get back to racing.

[atmo]

Here's where I think I am on the Lance thing:

1. I believe he used PEDs, not necessarily because the evidence against him is overwhelming or so extensive, but because . . .
2. I believe everyone in the peleton uses PEDs--they work, so if you don't use them, you don't maintain your level relative to other riders.
3. Since everyone uses them, it's as level a playing field as it can be.
4. Because it's a level playing field, Lance did not have an unfair advantage over other riders (apart from his freakish physiology)--Like Swart himself said, if everyone's doing it, Lance is the best, and if no one is doing it, Lance is still the best (in his chosen race). Lance didn't cheat his fellow riders, even if he violated anti-doping rules. (I see you raising your hand there, Mr. Moreau, and maybe you have a point, I just don't know.) Whether Lance cheated the fans is something every fan must decide for himself.
5. Since everyone uses PEDs, ANYONE's past victories can be denigrated, but since it's a level playing field, such denigration cannot result in the identification of some other rider who deserved to win because he was clean. In this sense, L'Equipe's focus on Lance is a witchhunt, not because he's innocent or the evidence against him is faulty, but because the result of demonstrating that Lance used PEDs cannot disclose injustice or unfairness and serves little purpose other than to taint fairly-won and hard-earned victories.

While I am unpersuaded that doping raises any moral issues, this is not to suggest that a blind eye be turned to doping. An appropriate level of enforcement is required. I think the use of criminal sanctions and quasi-criminal investigative techniques may be excessive, and I wish the authorities would develop a fair means of securing compliance that does not drag practically every star of the sport through the mud. Mainly, I wish we could get back to racing.


...and denying the PEDs thing too atmo.

[catulle]

He should have taken the anhalonium lewinii, gone for a ride with Casteneda, and gone apologetic...

dbrk

Lance is Texan, he probably knows Don Juan already, atmo.

[MartyE]

who do you think made all those protein drinks for Lance & Sheryl?
Don Genaro.

[stevep]

i think im apopletic too...
how can i tell?
need help from atmo or dbrk...right away...dont know what to do...throw something? sue somebody? start yelling?
please help me...im getting mad even!
s