OT: Any Auto Mechanics Here

[redir]

Driving me KrAzY!!!!

My 1992 Dodge Dakota pickup (108,000 miles) has a completely totally random stalling problem. I have been dealing with it for two years. All this truck does is take the recycling out and got to Lowes and Home Depot. It helped me build my workshop and my wifes pottery studio. I need it but it's driving me crazy.

I replaced the PCM. Still stalls. I've checked all the grounds, fuses, and electrical connections. It most certainly is electrical. When driving it will simply just STOP running. Then I pull over to the side of the road and most times it starts right back up. Sometimes it takes a few minutes. I've even restarted it while coasting down the highway in neutral after it stalls.

Finally after much research I read about this crank arm position sensor (CPS). $30 dollars and a half hour later I replace it and the truck is running like a champ. For days no problem. I am driving it everywhere and my confidence builds right up to the point where I finally breath a sigh of relief. Yay!!! My truck is fixed woohoo woot yippie.

And then... It strikes again. This morning, FAIL... <cry>

I don't want to just trash it but it's killing me. I've had 4 mechanics look at it and no one can figure it out. I'd swear the CPS fixed the problem because the truck was simply no longer starting. As soon as I replaced the CPS boom it fired right up and ran great for days.

Anyway. I guess I am ranting more then asking for advice but if anyone has a suggestion I'm all ears.

[parris]

I had a similar problem with my old Dodge pickup. It turned out to be a pickup coil in the distributor. Once the truck got to a certain temp it would sometimes cause an open circuit. Once it was replaced the truck ran fine until I got rid of it several years later.

[josephr]

yep -- definitely sounds like an ignition problem....I'm not sure if they were using separate coils/distributors but I'd start with a coil and a new coil-to-distributor wire and also a new distributor cap/rotary button.

[AngryScientist]

i love how you called it a crank "arm" position sensor. lol.

that's an old truck, and any of the wiring and sensors could certainly be suspect. the CPS looks like the one below right? i would start by tracing that wire pack to the computer module and checking for cracks and general condition. how did the other half of the connector look - did you pack it full of dielectric grease?

have you replaced the coil lately?it sounds like when the truck dies it loses spark, not fuel. coils notoriously have intermittent failures, micro cracks can lead to this that you would never see.

in short, check all components of the ignition system. the CPS tells the coil where your crankshaft is, which tells the coil when to fire and the distributor which spark plug to fire, if you're losing all spark, which you are or the engine would just drop a cylinder or two, not die - the problem is likely between that CPS itself and the computer and the coil, check all those wires and connectors.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31BjL3j2t0L.jpg

[AngryScientist]

the two guys above me are thinking along the same lines i see!

[redir]

It doesn't look quite like that but similar enough. Dialectic grease? What the heck is that? Okay... So is that imperative? It's not hard at all to get to the CPS so I could do that if necessary. I'll check all the wiring too and look into the coil thingie. Arm? Shaft? What's the difference :D

[seric]

Another easy thing to check would be the gas cap, it could be vapor locking.

[AngryScientist]

It doesn't look quite like that but similar enough. Dialectic grease? What the heck is that? Okay... So is that imperative? It's not hard at all to get to the CPS so I could do that if necessary. I'll check all the wiring too and look into the coil thingie. Arm? Shaft? What's the difference :D

the grease is not necessarily essential, but is a good measure to ensure good contact in electrical connectors, especially ones under the car that get exposed to moisture and stuff.

google tells me your coil looks like this. find it and replace it. google also tells me it's about 20 bucks. that's a definite place to start. use the grease on all the connectors. my money is on a reliable truck if you do everything i just mentioned.


http://thumbs.ebaystatic.com/images/g/A80AAOSwPgxVRwEK/s-l225.jpg

[AngryScientist]

one more thing!

the wire that connects from that coil to the distributor uses a spark plug typed connector, which can get opened up from vibration on a 20 year old car. replace that wire. use dielectric grease on those connectors too.

inside of that connector looks something like this:

http://assets.hemmings.com/story_image/273481-888-0.jpg?rev=3

[redir]

Sweet! Ok thanks a lot for the tips. I'll be thrilled if it's so simple after all.

[Rusty Luggs]

the grease is not necessarily essential, but is a good measure to ensure good contact in electrical connectors, especially ones under the car that get exposed to moisture and stuff.



Apply dielectric grease to the rubber part of connectors, not to the conductors..... dielectric = non conducting

[AngryScientist]

Apply dielectric grease to the rubber part of connectors, not to the conductors..... dielectric = non conducting

technically thats true, but in practice you just spray the stuff in the connector and push them together.

http://ace.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/p1241343reg.jpg

[David Kirk]

When it dies it will restart sometimes without issue - when it won't restart what does it do? I assume if cranks but won't catch and run?

dave

[Ralph]

If none of the above....check the fuel filter. You do change that right?

[Gummee]

If none of the above....check the fuel filter. You do change that right?

along that line, if the coil don't fix the issue, it could be in the fuel pump assy.

M

[redir]

When it dies it will restart sometimes without issue - when it won't restart what does it do? I assume if cranks but won't catch and run?

dave

Correct, cranks away no problem.

---

I could be wrong but it seems to me that a fuel filter clog would be more of a sputtering then die sort of thing? This is like flipping a light switch, it just feels electrical and it is truly random. Cold, rain, hot, fog, going uphill or downhill, on the flats you name it and it doesn't matter. It can stall one minute after starting or 2 hours, run great for 3 days then stall, it can stall two times in 30 minutes, totally random. When she runs she runs absolutely great too, no sluggishness nothing.

It has been some time since the fuel filter was replaced though.

[David Kirk]

Correct, cranks away no problem.

---

I could be wrong but it seems to me that a fuel filter clog would be more of a sputtering then die sort of thing? This is like flipping a light switch, it just feels electrical and it is truly random. Cold, rain, hot, fog, going uphill or downhill, on the flats you name it and it doesn't matter. It can stall one minute after starting or 2 hours, run great for 3 days then stall, it can stall two times in 30 minutes, totally random. When she runs she runs absolutely great too, no sluggishness nothing.

It has been some time since the fuel filter was replaced though.

I'm just a framebuilder so take this with a grain of salt.....it sounds like it's ignition related. If it was the fuel filter it would sputter and slowly die as it runs leaner and leaner and not just suddenly cut out......and when the demand for fuel is low (idle) it would run fine. So it would typically start, maybe with a few extra cranks, and then idle just fine.

I'm guessing it the coil/ignition, the fuel pump or bad ground somewhere.

dave

[dustyrider]

I'd start with the above suggestions. Sounds like some folks know this truck specifically. I'm inclined to think it's a ground problem. When you're not getting enough gas there are lots of specific signs. The main ground cables might be shot. They may appear to be okay visually, but they don't last forever and replacing them isn't expensive.

[Ken Robb]

If the ground cable was bad wouldn't it affect other things: dim headlights, weal/no horn, wipers, etc?
I had a similar problem caused by a bad coil that would get an open winding due to heat and/or vibration. If you can still buy a coil for $30 =/- I think that would be a quick/easy replacement to try.

[unterhausen]

the fords of that era had modules that ran the ignition. I don't know anything about Dodges, but there is a certain amount of group-think and design sharing between brands. I had problems due to ignition cables on a couple of my cars. Cleaning up corrosion and applying dielectric grease is a good first step.
Any connector in the engine compartment should get dielectric grease, that's how the car manufacturers avoid buying decent connectors

[bikinchris]

Dielectric grease doesn't help the electrical connections themselves. It keeps moisture and air from corroding the connectors over time, causing a poor connection.
The ground connection idea is a good one. It wouldn't hurt to check all ground connections.

[Rusty Luggs]

Sometimes what seems like an ignition system problem sends you down the wrong path. Could be something like fuel pump relay or "ASD" relay (google that) going bad. Relays don't always just fail outright, can be tricky to diagnose.

[bikinchris]

If the ground cable was bad wouldn't it affect other things: dim headlights, weal/no horn, wipers, etc?
I had a similar problem caused by a bad coil that would get an open winding due to heat and/or vibration. If you can still buy a coil for $30 =/- I think that would be a quick/easy replacement to try.

Not if only the ground strap to the engine block was bad. The starter has a different connection, too.

[redir]

I did replace the ground connection. It's the one that goes from the battery right to the body. I guess I am hearing that there is more then one ground connection? I'll have to look into that as well.

[dustyrider]

I did replace the ground connection. It's the one that goes from the battery right to the body. I guess I am hearing that there is more then one ground connection? I'll have to look into that as well.

I would think there would be at least two 4 gauge grounding wires, or bigger. Something from the battery to the body and something from battery to the engine block. It may connect to an accessory like a/c or power steering. There's also going to be lots of smaller grounds that handle other functions. Makes sense to check the fuel and ignition grounds based on your issue.
Have you looked for an online service manual? Surely there's a message forum for Dakotas with helpful folks just like us!

[bikinchris]

Yes, the engine and transmission are mounted in the chassis with rubber motor mounts. So they have to use a ground strap.

[palincss]

Dialectic grease? What the heck is that? Okay... So is that imperative?

Categorically, of course. How very metaphysical of you, but you're missing an "r". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicone_grease

[sand fungus]

It very well could also be another bad CPS sensor, electrical failures tend to happen early in life or late in life. But most likely it is in the wiring for the CPS sensor to the ECM. Did you try wriggling the wiring around and trying it again?

[Louis]

1) Find something that allows you to safely hold a spark plug wire without being shocked. Something like thick leather work gloves.

2) The next time the problem happens pull a plug wire at one of the spark plugs, push the boot back so you can see the metal end, hold it close to the now bare end of the spark plug or some other hefty bit of metal on the engine.

3) Have someone crank the engine and see if you have a spark at the end of the wire. If you do, put the wire back in place and see if the engine will start. If it does start (and you presumably had a spark on the one disconnected wire) then close the hood and keep driving until this occurs again and you can repeat the experiment.

4) If the engine does not start but you had a spark then you've probably eliminated the ignition system as the culprit. If the engine does not start and you do not have a spark, then the ignition system is surely the cause. (Of course that still leaves lots of detective work, but at least you know where to look.)

Edit: A spark will look like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-g-X5gbue6g

Good Luck

[shovelhd]

I'd Hotwire the ignition, bypassing the ignition switch. They can fail intermittently over time.

[redir]

Categorically, of course. How very metaphysical of you, but you're missing an "r". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicone_grease

rolf. That was an excellent typo there.

---

I lied to you all a little bit :help:

Now thinking back with the help of my wife, and this has to do with another question I am a bit confused about, on some occasions on the side of the road after a stall the ignition was also totally dead. So when I turned the key absolutely nothing happens, dead. Most of the time though it does start back up. When on those cases that the ignition was dead I would put it in neutral and it would start. This actually goes back to a problem that has been going on for many years and I assumed it was the Neutral safety switch and my understanding of that is that it would have absolutely nothing to do with stalling. So I kind of ruled that out.

But I am hearing now is that it could be the ignition system which all starts from where you put the key in right? I'm confused as to what the coil is because the one that Angry Scientist points out is different from the one that Paris pointed out? So there are two coils, an ignition coil and a pickup coil?

Perhaps I wrongly assumed this. I thought that once you turned the key on and the truck started then the ignition switch was essentially then out of the loop but I think I am hearing now that if it's bad then the whole system can shut down?

Regards.

[ultraman6970]

It depends a lot of the engine design how many coils and how the cables for the coil modules are.

For example my 2000 voyager doesnt have coil, it use a distributor, would not surprise me that you have a distributor because of the year of manufacturing. I dont know the truck just in case, not familiar with it.

For the record from looking at the internet, this trucks came with 3 engines, the tiny one looks like came with a distributor, and looks like the other two bigger engines used inginition coils. If you have the 2.5 L and uses a distributor and you havent changed it ever, well could be that the cap is cracked, the engine just get hot and the plastic just expands and the contacts inside arent touching the distributor tip and thats could be the problem. Easy to check, take the cap out and check for cracks and see if the contacts inside are ok, sure are worn, sure the tip of the button needs to be replaced aswell. I would start right there. If the engine gets cold and then starts working again then probably is a cracked distributor cap or a cracked ignition coil (no clue the size of your engine)

Second problem with chryslers in general, probably a cable that goes to the injectors, they tend to rust or the insulation gets carbonnized and you are having a short in the harness. Not familiar with the truck so you have to google this one for your car.

Hope this helps.

[ultraman6970]

Not at all, doesnt work like that, in the case of a distribitor cap the thingy that is in the inside what it does it sends electricity to each sparkplug in each cyclinder so you have ignition of the fuel, one cyclinder at a time and all the time ignition key is on (engine is on).

Coil does the same but more efficiently because is not as mechanic as a distributor. But work the same.

If you have a distributor and you have not swapped that ever, then I would start right there (well could be a cracked ignition coil module that is made of plastic aswell)

rolf.
Perhaps I wrongly assumed this. I thought that once you turned the key on and the truck started then the ignition switch was essentially then out of the loop but I think I am hearing now that if it's bad then the whole system can shut down?

Regards.

[F150]

rolf.

Now thinking back with the help of my wife, and this has to do with another question I am a bit confused about, on some occasions on the side of the road after a stall the ignition was also totally dead. So when I turned the key absolutely nothing happens, dead. Most of the time though it does start back up.

Starter solenoid?

[Louis]

Starter solenoid?

But that wouldn't cause the engine to die as the OP is driving down that road.

[F150]

It most certainly will...my '90 Bronco proved that point more than once. That's the first component on the engine side of the battery. And sometimes being stone cold dead ("when I turned the key absolutely nothing happens, dead") then miraculously turning over, I've had the same happen to me. A couple of raps on the housing with the end of a wrench all it took to bring it back to function.

Never left home w/o a spare.

[Louis]

I'm pretty sure that you could rip out the starter solenoid off an engine as it's running and it would continue to happily hum down the road.

[bikinchris]

rolf. That was an excellent typo there.

---

I lied to you all a little bit :help:

Now thinking back with the help of my wife, and this has to do with another question I am a bit confused about, on some occasions on the side of the road after a stall the ignition was also totally dead. So when I turned the key absolutely nothing happens, dead. Most of the time though it does start back up. When on those cases that the ignition was dead I would put it in neutral and it would start. This actually goes back to a problem that has been going on for many years and I assumed it was the Neutral safety switch and my understanding of that is that it would have absolutely nothing to do with stalling. So I kind of ruled that out.

But I am hearing now is that it could be the ignition system which all starts from where you put the key in right? I'm confused as to what the coil is because the one that Angry Scientist points out is different from the one that Paris pointed out? So there are two coils, an ignition coil and a pickup coil?

Perhaps I wrongly assumed this. I thought that once you turned the key on and the truck started then the ignition switch was essentially then out of the loop but I think I am hearing now that if it's bad then the whole system can shut down?

Regards.

So that means it could still be any of the previously mentioned items and a few more. Neutral switch, starter switch, ground strap(s), coil or even an odd broken wire going to any of the electrical components. Intermittent problems like this can be a real pain. If you find a mechanic who works on these often, they could offer an insight to common causes. So maybe ask the service writer or manager at a dealer who sells these vehicles if you could talk to an older mechanic who has been around since it was new. Maybe offer a six pack?

BTW, the pickup coil spoken of here is just a hall effect sensor that relates the crankshaft position to the system. The ignition coil charges the ignition and powers the spark plugs. If the coil overheats and or goes out, it would stop the engine from running, but it would NOT stop it from cranking over. Neither of these components would stop it from cranking. But the ignition switch certainly would. SO would the neutral switch. But the neutral switch wouldn't likely stop the engine once it was running.

[mg2ride]

My son is currently fighting a different problem but same randomness with a 1997 F150 not starting. It is finally to the point where EVERY time we start it the Starter Relay fuse blows right after it starts. It was more random before 2 days ago. There are currently 30 - 15 amp fuses that have blown in the the bed of his truck.

Just before it got dark tonight I think I may have found the culprit. There is a wire bundle (sheathed) laying on part of the exhaust manifold. It is very hard to reach so I was not able to inspect the wires but the plastic sheath is definitely melted. I'm hoping to resolve it tomorrow evening.

[mg2ride]

My son is currently fighting a different problem but same randomness with a 1997 F150 not starting. It is finally to the point where EVERY time we start it the Starter Relay fuse blows right after it starts. It was more random before 2 days ago. There are currently 30 - 15 amp fuses that have blown in the the bed of his truck.

Just before it got dark tonight I think I may have found the culprit. There is a wire bundle (sheathed) laying on part of the exhaust manifold. It is very hard to reach so I was not able to inspect the wires but the plastic sheath is definitely melted. I'm hoping to resolve it tomorrow evening.

Good News is that I'm pretty sure I know what the problem is!
https://c3.staticflickr.com/8/7569/27390384906_48dcbfeb52_b.jpg

Bad news is that I don't have a clue where all the wires in that cluster go and it is routed behind the engine along the fire wall where there is zero access. Had to pull the wheel well shield out to get this.

[Louis]

Good News is that I'm pretty sure I know what the problem is!

Bad news is that I don't have a clue where all the wires in that cluster go and it is routed behind the engine along the fire wall where there is zero access. Had to pull the wheel well shield out to get this.

Are you going to try to replace the whole bundle? (massive PITA)

Or are you going to just splice the bad ones locally, wrap it all with water-proof electrical tape (there really is such a thing - I saw them use it for my well pump) and tie it down so it stays away from the exhaust manifold?

I would try #2...

Good Luck

[ultraman6970]

Thats the usual stuff that happens in old cars, insulation back then was not as good as today's, heat starts carbonizing and cracking the insulation and then the cables. The hard part is to find where the stuff is bad.

[dustyrider]

Good News is that I'm pretty sure I know what the problem is!
https://c3.staticflickr.com/8/7569/27390384906_48dcbfeb52_b.jpg

Bad news is that I don't have a clue where all the wires in that cluster go and it is routed behind the engine along the fire wall where there is zero access. Had to pull the wheel well shield out to get this.

Good luck! I have a feeling you're going to need it.
I'd think about tying and soldering any wires needed before pulling a harness any day. Use heat shrink to wrap when you're done. You can buy that heat sheild weave material seen in your photo in rolls to wrap everything when you're done. I'd avoid electrical tape. Not envious..

[AngryScientist]

liquid electrical tape works wonders in a situation like that.

http://ak-i21.geccdn.net/site/images/n-picgroup/GDR_LTB-400.jpg

[bshell]

Smart of the OP to ask a big group and cool of the auto-minded to share their experience.

I have a nearly identical problem with a 1985 F250 (except for the 'not cranking over' part the OP added towards the end). The thing has 45K original miles and runs like a champ but is now totally unreliable because it dies at random times...sitting at a light, coasting down hill, accelerating :(

It will crank and crank like nobody's business and I can sometimes restart while rolling. Other times I have to wait 10-15 minutes or get towed (two weeks ago). On my third mechanic and he's perplexed but willing (which is huge).

It's great to read and learn a little bit here. I want to help solve my own problems but don't want to bug the professional, y'know?

OP--I wish you much luck!

[mg2ride]

Good luck! I have a feeling you're going to need it.
I'd think about tying and soldering any wires needed before pulling a harness any day. Use heat shrink to wrap when you're done. You can buy that heat sheild weave material seen in your photo in rolls to wrap everything when you're done. I'd avoid electrical tape. Not envious..

I'm undeclared as to how I am going to attack it. It still runs so I may very well take it somewhere and just pay the premium to let someone else do the work.

Right now my problem is figuring out where all the wires in that bundle go to and if a new bundle is available pre-made (other than a junk yard).

I have determined that this bundle is effectively the engine control sensors and I know at least some of those sensors go directly to the transmission. I can get to those without to much trouble to disconnect. The rest of the bundle seems to go deeper into the engine block and I can't see where they end without starting to take things apart.

There is no chance I can repair the wires without pulling the harness. It is too far back behind the engine. The picture gives the feel that I have access to it but I don't. I can barley get my hands on it where it is.

I have spent quite a bit of time online trying to find the appropriate wiring diagram but so far have not had any luck.

On the off chance anyone has something, it is a 1997 F150 4WD with the 4.2L 6cylinder.

I'm quite sure this is the result of poor workmanship. The truck was sold (giving) to my son by my father in-law. he had to have the engine rebuilt just before passing it to my son. I will give 50 to 1 odds that during the rebuild they did not take care of properly routing and securing this bundle. 5 minutes then would have saved me hours and $$ now:crap:

[bikinchris]

Smart of the OP to ask a big group and cool of the auto-minded to share their experience.

I have a nearly identical problem with a 1985 F250 (except for the 'not cranking over' part the OP added towards the end). The thing has 45K original miles and runs like a champ but is now totally unreliable because it dies at random times...sitting at a light, coasting down hill, accelerating :(

It will crank and crank like nobody's business and I can sometimes restart while rolling. Other times I have to wait 10-15 minutes or get towed (two weeks ago). On my third mechanic and he's perplexed but willing (which is huge).

It's great to read and learn a little bit here. I want to help solve my own problems but don't want to bug the professional, y'know?

OP--I wish you much luck!

Your problem might not be strictly electrical. But it wouldn't hurt to closely inspect for loose connections, burnt or broken wires etc.

[bikinchris]

I'm undeclared as to how I am going to attack it. It still runs so I may very well take it somewhere and just pay the premium to let someone else do the work.

Right now my problem is figuring out where all the wires in that bundle go to and if a new bundle is available pre-made (other than a junk yard).

I have determined that this bundle is effectively the engine control sensors and I know at least some of those sensors go directly to the transmission. I can get to those without to much trouble to disconnect. The rest of the bundle seems to go deeper into the engine block and I can't see where they end without starting to take things apart.

There is no chance I can repair the wires without pulling the harness. It is too far back behind the engine. The picture gives the feel that I have access to it but I don't. I can barley get my hands on it where it is.

I have spent quite a bit of time online trying to find the appropriate wiring diagram but so far have not had any luck.

On the off chance anyone has something, it is a 1997 F150 4WD with the 4.2L 6cylinder.

I'm quite sure this is the result of poor workmanship. The truck was sold (giving) to my son by my father in-law. he had to have the engine rebuilt just before passing it to my son. I will give 50 to 1 odds that during the rebuild they did not take care of properly routing and securing this bundle. 5 minutes then would have saved me hours and $$ now:crap:

That harness is probably missing a clip that would hold it safely away from the exhaust. If you're lucky, there will be a plastic label on one end of that wiring harness which will allow a parts man to sell a new identical one. It doesn't have a part number on that tag. It has an engineering number that can be translated to a part number.
-Chris, who sold Ford parts for 15 years.

[redir]

Smart of the OP to ask a big group and cool of the auto-minded to share their experience.

I have a nearly identical problem with a 1985 F250 (except for the 'not cranking over' part the OP added towards the end). The thing has 45K original miles and runs like a champ but is now totally unreliable because it dies at random times...sitting at a light, coasting down hill, accelerating :(

It will crank and crank like nobody's business and I can sometimes restart while rolling. Other times I have to wait 10-15 minutes or get towed (two weeks ago). On my third mechanic and he's perplexed but willing (which is huge).

It's great to read and learn a little bit here. I want to help solve my own problems but don't want to bug the professional, y'know?

OP--I wish you much luck!

Drives ya crazy doesn't it? Just like yours for an old truck it's relatively low miles and runs like a champ. If it wasn't for that damn stalling. My wife won't get in the car till its fixed and as such we have not pulled the sailboat to the beach in over a year :(

[unterhausen]

I'm not sure that a dealer would necessarily be able to help you any better than you can do it yourself, particularly if it's a repair mistake that doesn't happen that often. Certainly worth asking though. The issue may be that they may have a replacement estimate in their books that involves R&R the engine or something like that. My Ford had a repair where if you had a Ford dealer do it, the labor included an additional 10 hours because the book said to R&R the dash. You could get to it by pulling the dash back on one side, no reason to totally remove it.

I had a Ford with an enthusiast following, and it was really nice to get help online. Of course, that car was limited quantities so the Ford dealer was virtually no help, and you needed the fellow car owners to help you. First time I had the water pump replaced it cost me $1500, almost all labor. After my wife stopped driving it and it became my car (meaning I could do work on it) it took me about an hour to do that same repair because I learned how to do it online. Some more generic cars are really difficult to get help working on.

[F150]

I'm pretty sure that you could rip out the starter solenoid off an engine as it's running and it would continue to happily hum down the road.

But could an internal short within the solenoid cause the OP's issue? Guts gone haywire dump all the current from the alternator to ground? I don't know, just offering my firsthand experience with a wonky solenoid and what it can do (all good, 75MPH at 2400 RPM to zero power across all platforms (dash, dome light, radio, engine) instantaneously)

[Louis]

But could an internal short within the solenoid cause the OP's issue? Guts gone haywire dump all the current from the alternator to ground? I don't know, just offering my firsthand experience with a wonky solenoid and what it can do (all good, 75MPH at 2400 RPM to zero power across all platforms (dash, dome light, radio, engine) instantaneously)

I don't know. Intuitively I don't think it should affect a running engine, but I may be wrong.

[Richard]

Sort of an off the wall thought, but I had a vehicle with a faulty column mounted ignition switch that would intermittently shut the vehicle down. At times it would take two or three tries to get it to contact and send power to the ignition. Was made worse by dangling a lot of keys off my key ring. The problem went away when I took all dangling keys off the ring and only used the ignition key. I know this is a big deal with a slew of GM vehicles due to faulty manufacturing, but they do wear out in other cars, too.

[pbarry]

My 89 Ranger had an intermittent cut out problem. I replaced almost every electronic component: Fuel pump, coil packs, crank position sensor, coolant temp sensor, et al. No dice. Took it to a good shop in Boulder with a list of what I'd done. They spent an afternoon diagnosing it, calling me several times to ask if I'd replaced "X, Y,Z"? Which I had.. Turned out to be the CPU. New one installed and it runs like a champ.

OBD1 makes diagnosis more tedious. You could jump out when it dies and use a voltmeter and possibly find the culprit. Check fuel pressure too.. Good luck.

[redir]

Well I finally got around to figuring this one out. Using my official Chrysler manual I traced the spark from the plugs all the way back to the CPS and back again replacing pars as I went along as necessary. Finally I got a new CPS and she fired right up and worked like a champ... for about 3 days. Then the stalling and no start situations happened again.

I wish the manual said very first thing, check the pin connector plug that plugs into the CPS for expanded and or worn out female pin ends because sure enough that was the problem. I had to take apart the connector plug and then pull out each affected pin and with pliers bend the metal tube connectors back into round so that when plugged in the male ends would make good electrical contact.

So about $300 dollars later I find out that the whole problem took 30 minutes to repair and cost $0 dollars :D

At least now I can say that I have a really good tune up on the old truck.

Moral of the story is don't overlook the obvious first ;)

[cmbicycles]

Unfortunately some things that appear obvious in hindsight, aren't always quite so obvious at first glance. Glad you got it figured out... good thing is that it would have been way more parts and labor $$$ had you taken it to almost any repair shop.

[Gummee]

Moral of the story is don't overlook the obvious first ;)Always start with the easy/inexpensive stuff.

...except in my case, the starter on the X3 just cost me $480 installed! Thank doG the guy that runs the shop is a buddy of mine!

M

[Peter P.]

Well I finally got around to figuring this one out....
Moral of the story is don't overlook the obvious first ;)

You're not alone so don't feel so bad.

If you followed my thread (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=193842) about my speaker problem, you'll see I damaged a speaker and in the process of discovering the source of the problem, I wound up rendering these speakers much less marketable if I wanted to sell them.

Fact is, had I discovered the source of the problem right off the bat, I wouldn't have drilled the baffle and inserted an ugly screw. The whole process got me interested in new speakers, but I won't do that unless I could sell the existing ones. The opportunity is lost.

Just like your situation, it was necessary to go through the process of trying different things until all alternative solutions were eliminated. Only THEN would you think to look in until then, not considered locations.

It's the price of education. Even seasoned mechanics go through the same thing.

[redir]

A good motto is that there are no such things as mistakes, only learning opportunities. ;)

[ericssonboi]

I had a similar thing happen to my old 90s Honda Accord. Ended up being a main relay that needed to be replaced. Old soldier joints on the electrical circuit were worn out. As other have pointed, it sounds like an electrical issue. You may need to turn to a good mechanic who have dealt with similar issues.