PBS: Jef the Cyclist

[Tony T]

http://assets.amuniversal.com/939785e0fdc501335df4005056a9545d

[cinco]

This bothers me. Seems to me that dedicated bike lanes are a step in the direction of getting cyclists off the roads otherwise and leave them exclusively to motorists. It's not cyclists who I know that are wanting bike lanes. More, it's those who do not want to share the road with cyclists.

Also, bike lanes can't be ridden effectively by a large group of cyclists - the mode I often travel. They may be ok for cyclists travelling individually.

Maybe I'm missing the humor of the comic, but I'm a little offended.

Andy in Houston.

[OtayBW]

Not offended by the comic, but definitely not in favor of segregated bike lanes (especially 'cycletracks'' for many of the reasons you mentioned.

[benb]

I agree with you for the most part if you're talking the fully segregated lanes. They tend to build those in ways that totally separate cyclists from everything and make it a pain to actually get anywhere useful for "practical" cycling. The painted lanes on the road are way more useful.

The non-cyclist way of looking at it here for the big segregated trail in my area is definitely that you drive your SUV/pickup truck to the head of the MUT, unload, ride down the MUT, do not leave the MUT, and then ride back to the SUV to head home. It defeats a large part of cycling.

I got a kick out of consumer reports yesterday, I was looking for reviews of trail-a-bikes and kid trailers and such and Consumer Reports was putting a disclaimer in about 1/2 the paragraphs that you should never ride with a trailer/trail-a-bike on the road. Which basically would force you over to that "drive the SUV somewhere" scenario.

[cinco]

I'm a white male. Have been my whole life. Maybe this makes me particularly sensitive to injustice - I just don't experience the receiving end of it on a daily basis.
I can just see a future where I won't be able to go where I should have a right to go.
And, it's not a minor thing. I derive great pleasure out of meeting up with 50+ good friends and riding as fast as we can. This would effectively come to an end if we are restricted to bike lanes.

Andy in Houston

[Ken Robb]

We have to accept that government agencies can get public approval to build bike lanes to encourage people to use bikes for transportation but they would run into huge opposition to any program to encourage large groups/pelotons of riders who represent a small percentage of the general population. Non-riders can usually accept the former idea but they greatly resent what they see as playing in traffic.

My biggest complaint about bike lanes that are separated from the road by curbs is that street sweeping machines don't get into them so they are littered with debris and dirt.

[benb]

I honestly don't feel a lot of sympathy for the whole "huge peloton" thing.

Short of an actual race with traffic control I don't really ever see a need for people to ride in a group of 50 that clogs up the road and goes 3-4 abreast. Most of those groups I see (outside of a race situation) behave bad and are super dangerous. The group can't fit through intersections and stuff and ends up breaking all kinds of rules to stay together and there is chaos due to bad communication quite often too.

Keep it down to 15 or less and enforce 2 abreast and single file where necessary and everything gets easier and you can fit in bike lanes and stuff and you don't annoy everyone so much.

I think we're a long way from being told we have to ride in the bike lanes and MUTs though so you'll be OK riding with 50+ people you'll just piss off the world.

[ColonelJLloyd]

This is really troubling to you cyclists? In my experience it improves traffic flow and ease of turns for both autos and bikes. I'm good with it.

http://www.streetsblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/165_section.png

[redir]

I doubt many of us here on this forum would care either way for dedicated bike lanes but there are a lot of people out there who think about commuting to work on a bike but are too afraid to be on the same road as traffic. So in a way a bike lane would be more inclusive.

[cinco]

I hear you guys. But, seems like we are making some assumptions. What if we just assume that a group, no matter how large, does obey all traffic laws. Then, even if they are "playing in traffic", what of it? Can't you get in a vehicle and drive the roads aimlessly? Do we have to be purposely using the roads for work?

[benb]

Colonel the setup you pictured doesn't bother me at all.

I'm more talking about where they run the bike lane physically separate.. e.x. across a grass median. That kind of thing makes it super hard to take left turns and stuff without becoming a pedestrian and wasting a ton of time at crosswalks, etc... it pretty much eliminates "vehicular cycling". (I rode a bunch of this "separated by a grass median + curb" stuff down in Florida earlier this year.)

What you pictured is pretty much only a thing/necessary in urban areas anyway though, and not necessarily an issue for the group ride that is out for sporting purposes, if it's that built up the ride should be neutralized through there anyway.

[cmg]

the design is a great way to get hit as cars drift into the bike lane to avoid potholes or road imperfections. in SA a bike lane means a 2'ft strip where the road debris gathers. city managers can talk about bike lanes but it's pretty meaningless to anybody that rides a bike.

[benb]

the design is a great way to get hit as cars drift into the bike lane to avoid potholes or road imperfections. in SA a bike lane means a 2'ft strip where the road debris gathers. city managers can talk about bike lanes but it's pretty meaningless to anybody that rides a bike.

At least in the picture he posted the only difference is they painted lines and gave the bikes a 5' space. Hard to see how it's any worse than lane splitting down the middle of a 26.5' space that the cars see as one giant lane that they can do anything they want with. If there is a pothole they're going to drift no matter what, at least with painted lines there is something to remind them they don't own the whole space.

[fiamme red]

This bothers me. Seems to me that dedicated bike lanes are a step in the direction of getting cyclists off the roads otherwise and leave them exclusively to motorists. It's not cyclists who I know that are wanting bike lanes. More, it's those who do not want to share the road with cyclists.At a community board meeting in NYC recently, one activist spoke in favor of a new segregated bike lane by appealing to motorists: "If cyclists stay behind a row of parked cars, you won't have to worry about interacting with them." Of course, this is a lie, because cars and bikes have to interact at intersections.

[OtayBW]

At a community board meeting in NYC recently, one activist spoke in favor of a new segregated bike lane by appealing to motorists: "If cyclists stay behind a row of parked cars, you won't have to worry about interacting with them." Of course, this is a lie, because cars and bikes have to interact at intersections.
That is a 'cycletrack'. Oh yeah - you're 'protected' by parked cars who are confused about vehicles passing them now on both the driver and the passenger side as they try to get out, and although the cyclist is 'protected' by this car buffer, s/he still has to re-engage with traffic at intersections, performing erratic maneuvers like turning left across both the parked car lane and vehicle through lanes. It is freaking nuts, IMO.

Initial community response to a proposed cycletrack in Baltimore was very favorable. Now that it's been built, there is a mild uprising happening among local homeowners and merchants.

[Tony T]

Maybe I'm missing the humor of the comic, but I'm a little offended.


For whatever reason, the author of the comic feels that cyclists are a bit 'full of themselves' and think that they are better than 'ordinary' folks. The punchline when Pig asks what more Jef wants, he says: For people to clear a 6 foot pathway when cyclists are walking around so that cyclists don't get other peoples ordinariness on them.

The comic really had nothing to do with bike lanes.

Here's an old one on the same theme:

http://assets.amuniversal.com/d5796ee02b5f01300649001dd8b71c47

[Tony T]

One of my favorites:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/8d/57/8a/8d578a42ee346646ef84f42f06891717.jpg

[cinco]

Thanks, Tony T. Yeah, I get that that wasn't the point. What I don't get about Pastis is whether he is actually a cyclist himself and poking fun, or if is anti-cyclist straight-up.

On the matter of lanes, it's the implication that cyclists are asking for them. So when they are built, they should be happy with being restricted to them. This, I believe to be a mischaracterization that is either consciously or subconsciously propagated by those who want to see cyclists off the roads.

Andy in Houston

[thwart]

What I don't get about Pastis is whether he is actually a cyclist himself and poking fun, or if is anti-cyclist straight-up.


I'm starting to think the latter.

It's just too easy for Mr. Pastis to keep playing that 'g*d-damn cyclists' card. Then again, some cyclists (no one here, of course ;)) do indeed act a bit like Jef.

Bike lanes are a good thing in general, although I'm not referring to the 'cycletracks' mentioned above. That sounds a bit too complicated and confusing.

There is a (small, vocal) backlash here against bike lanes and other methods to make bike use a bit safer and feel less threatening. I suspect those folks love Mr. Pastis.

[Dead Man]

No.. Pastis obviously has some serious misconceptions about cyclists. His comics are nothing but the most extreme fringe stereotypes - not crap we make fun of ourselves for.

I make fun of cyclists, including myself, all the time... I laugh our compulsiveness, competitiveness, fitness routines, our SUPER conformist image, lots of MAMIL jokes, etc.

But this idea that we're ultra entitled or think we're more important or better than anyone else is complete hogwash, and is only held by antis.

[bobswire]

No.. Pastis obviously has some serious misconceptions about cyclists. His comics are nothing but the most extreme fringe stereotypes - not crap we make fun of ourselves for.

I make fun of cyclists, including myself, all the time... I laugh our compulsiveness, competitiveness, fitness routines, our SUPER conformist image, lots of MAMIL jokes, etc.

But this idea that we're ultra entitled or think we're more important or better than anyone else is complete hogwash, and is only held by antis.

Him and Woody Allen. http://gothamist.com/2016/05/05/woody_allen_bike_lane.php

[gdw]

Methinks the comics are amusing and unfortunately pretty accurate. Hopefully Jef will move on to triathlons, cross fit, or golf so that those in our community who are offended can enjoy them.

[Dead Man]

Methinks the comics are amusing and unfortunately pretty accurate. Hopefully Jef will move on to triathlons, cross fit, or golf so that those in our community who are offended can enjoy them.

So you think we're self-entitled, self-important, and think we're generally better/worth more than non-cyclists, as a sub-culture?

[Fivethumbs]

I think that he thinks that we think that. But I don't think that everybody else thinks that we think that....right?

[gdw]

I'm not into sweeping generalisations but a segment of our community certainly does. Come to Boulder and I'll introduce to a few.

[Dead Man]

I'm not into sweeping generalisations but a segment of our community certainly does. Come to Boulder and I'll introduce to a few.

Come to Portland and I'll show you some fixied hipsters with FU attitudes, tweekers on MTBs going the wrong way on sidewalks, and a few others that, to the non-cyclist, misrepresent "cyclists"

For not being into making sweeping generalizations, but that's pretty much exactly what you did, man

And against your own kind

[cinema]

as much as i'm against bike lanes i have to admit they grant you more protection legally. physically it's a different story

[Tony T]

Thanks, Tony T. Yeah, I get that that wasn't the point. What I don't get about Pastis is whether he is actually a cyclist himself and poking fun, or if is anti-cyclist straight-up.


He's not a cyclist. IMO, he's poking fun. "I thought I saw a bowl of granola" was hilarious.

He's friends with another cartoonist, Jef Mallett (Frazz).
Jef has poked back:

http://3tweets.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/frazz-comic-03-22-121.png

[gdw]

Yeah probably shouldn't have lumped the offended into one group, my bad.

[bobswire]

as much as i'm against bike lanes i have to admit they grant you more protection legally. physically it's a different story

Bike lanes for better or for worse get some folks out of cars, for that I'm for them.

[thwart]

... not being into making sweeping generalizations, but that's pretty much exactly what you did, man
Like all motorcyclists are...

(just kidding of course... probably a great guy out of his 'costume')

[benb]

Lighten up a little and go take a ride. You gotta be able to laugh at your own tribe.

[smontanaro]

This is really troubling to you cyclists? In my experience it improves traffic flow and ease of turns for both autos and bikes. I'm good with it.

http://www.streetsblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/165_section.png

This is fine. I don't like the cases where they box the bikes in between the parked cars and the curb. Makes for very dangerous (right hook susceptible) intersections.