Canyon Bicycles coming to US, more online purchaces?

[rkhatibi]

http://cyclingtips.com/2016/05/canyon-bicycles-officially-announces-us-expansion/

"Details aside, one thing is certain about Canyon’s pending expansion: it will be hugely disruptive to the American bicycle market, and companies such as Trek and Giant have already taken preemptive steps in anticipation of allowing customers to buy their bikes online as well. Those arrangements still require local pickup, however, and neither company offers consumers a discount for buying from the comfort of their own homes."

[Climb01742]

This is great news. I've been hoping/waiting for this. When they launch, I'll be eager to see the bikes and prices. Two take-aways, I think: some pretty desirable bikes are coming our way, and the retail bike market will get even more 'interesting'.

[cadence90]

Very, very nice bicycles. This is excellent news!

[EDS]

One of my teammates has the Aeroad and is very happy with it.

[Climb01742]

One of my teammates has the Aeroad and is very happy with it.

Just curious: how'd he get one? Thx.

[dustyrider]

Wake me up when they actually get here. :cool:

[EDS]

Just curious: how'd he get one? Thx.

Purchased in Europe.

[denapista]

Ultimate CF SLX Evo please...

http://keyassets.timeincuk.net/inspirewp/live/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2015/08/canyon-evo-630x420.jpg

[ultraman6970]

Few years back the basic aluminum canyon had excellent reviews. Almost the best AL frame ever made and stuff.

[FlashUNC]

I'll believe it when they're actually shipping.

[Idris Icabod]

They ship to Mexico which is about 60 miles from where I live. I'm seriously considering getting one shipped to a friends family and driving down to get it.

[saab2000]

A buddy of mine is German living in the US, is in the shipping business and has friends on both sides of the pond. He owns two Canyons and thus far is less than enamored. And he'd be the first person to swoon at what they do. They have been less than responsive (non-responsive) to enquiries made for extra parts and other questions.

This holds a lot of promise but his experience with Canyon hasn't yet been great.

I think they will need to invest a lot in a US shipping facility and US-style customer service before they launch.

[ivanooze]

They ship to Mexico which is about 60 miles from where I live. I'm seriously considering getting one shipped to a friends family and driving down to get it.

interesting, that means i can get one as well. i have tons of family scattered south of the border.

[dave thompson]

Getting things shipped into Mexico can be an 'interesting' experience. Sometimes things go very smoothly, sometimes not so much. Things can be tied up in customs for weeks and often the officials can be capricious when it comes getting things done in an orderly fashion. Additionally Mexico has a 16% value added tax, called IVA, in addition to any duties and customs fees charged.

I have nothing shipped to me while I live in Mexico. I either bring it down myself or have it shipped to someone in the States that is coming down.

[Matthew]

Maybe they are nice, but are they really going to be better than the hundreds of other bikes that are available here already? Never swung a leg over one so I don't know but how different can they be really?

[R3awak3n]

Maybe they are nice, but are they really going to be better than the hundreds of other bikes that are available here already? Never swung a leg over one so I don't know but how different can they be really?

maybe not but from what I have seen from them, they are really good deals compared to similar brands.

I also like the way they look. Would love to try one.

[spiderwj]

They look nice. I agree with Matthew that there are already a plethora of carbon bikes for sale and I wonder what makes Canyon bikes different. Seem to have favorable comments above so I guess we'll see :). Always love new bikes!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kramnnim]

How much of their appeal is due to how hard they are to get here?

[R3awak3n]

They are hard to get in Europe too I think, you have to wait to get one it seems.

[yoshirider]

I have a pair of matching Ultimate Cf SLX's. It was a pain in the butt ordering from them and having it shipped from Germany to France and then from France to the US. They ship via UPS (or maybe it was DHL?) from their Koblenz factory... So that means courier charges when they finally get this going? It took a few months for my frame set to even be ready to ship. Also, when I had a customer service issue I had to reach them via their form on their website and responses took a couple days. The reps are very nice but the whole process was just slow, slow, slow. If I needed to reach them via telephone to Germant I had call as soon as I woke up in the morning due to the time difference.

So glad the second frame set was a brand new crash replacement I bought off of eBay UK. It was shipped via the global shipping program and surprisingly came in a few days despite going through so many shipping partners. That was easy... I need a Staples button to press!

[oldpotatoe]

I have a pair of matching Ultimate Cf SLX's. It was a pain in the butt ordering from them and having it shipped from Germany to France and then from France to the US. They ship via UPS (or maybe it was DHL?) from their Koblenz factory... So that means courier charges when they finally get this going? It took a few months for my frame set to even be ready to ship. Also, when I had a customer service issue I had to reach them via their form on their website and responses took a couple days. The reps are very nice but the whole process was just slow, slow, slow. If I needed to reach them via telephone to Germany I had call as soon as I woke up in the morning due to the time difference.



But, but, but, ordering from yer living room in your jammies is the new norm, isn't it? LBS' that might have a bike to actually ride before you buy are dead, old fashioned, the stuff of Ned Ludd..right? Anything bought via the worldwideweb is better, faster, lighter, stiffer, cheaper..and will never break, right?

Sarcasm intended.

Not the first euro brand, MO only, to come to market. Fondriest comes to mind..remember the ad now, "those bike shops, which were the 'bump in the road' to getting a great bike"..or something.

[old fat man]

But, but, but, ordering from yer living room in your jammies is the new norm, isn't it? LBS' that might have a bike to actually ride before you buy are dead, old fashioned, the stuff of Ned Ludd..right? Anything bought via the worldwideweb is better, faster, lighter, stiffer, cheaper..and will never break, right?

Sarcasm intended.

Not the first euro brand, MO only, to come to market. Fondriest comes to mind..remember the ad now, "those bike shops, which were the 'bump in the road' to getting a great bike"..or something.

Vecchios was/is a different breed of LBS. 99% of LBS don't have your size/color/model in stock so you're making a trip there, putting down a deposit so they can order it, then waiting 2 weeks, maybe more before they have it. And many of the higher end bikes are sold out by the time the season is underway. The only thing Specialized and Trek have done with "online sales" is save you that trip to put down the deposit. You're still waiting for the item to arrive and at the mercy of the LBS to retrieve it.

If I had a Vecchios caliber shop in my area, it might be a different story.

[benb]

How much of their appeal is due to how hard they are to get here?

This. Reminds me of when Spotify started out Euro Only.

Personally I think they're mostly ugly and they don't make much of anything that would fit me.

Less $$ is always nice but you'd want spares of any odd parts if you have to wait around when something breaks, particularly if you were going to race one.

[zap]

A buddy of mine is German living in the US, is in the shipping business and has friends on both sides of the pond. He owns two Canyons and thus far is less than enamored. And he'd be the first person to swoon at what they do. They have been less than responsive (non-responsive) to enquiries made for extra parts and other questions.

This holds a lot of promise but his experience with Canyon hasn't yet been great.

I think they will need to invest a lot in a US shipping facility and US-style customer service before they launch.

Good buddy had similar experience dealing with Canyon last year when he was in Germany. He finally did get the bike and had his sister ship it to the USA.

[David Kirk]

This feels like a tipping point to me and that the other guys will also need to move in the same direction to keep market share. I spent a doze years in bike retail when I was a young man and can feel their pain. I suspect that life will only get tougher for bricks-n-mortor retail from here on out.

dave

[Hermes_Alex]

This feels like a tipping point to me and that the other guys will also need to move in the same direction to keep market share. I spent a doze years in bike retail when I was a young man and can feel their pain. I suspect that life will only get tougher for bricks-n-mortor retail from here on out.

dave

This is basically what a lot of people are thinking in the business. There's a lot of hope that Canyon will bring about an end to the stigma of direct-sale bikes, by virtue of their size and clout.

[oldpotatoe]

This is basically what a lot of people are thinking in the business. There's a lot of hope that Canyon will bring about an end to the stigma of direct-sale bikes, by virtue of their size and clout.

Hope by whom? It's still a flat market. If Canyon goes up 3-4%, somebody goes down 3-4%. I guess Canyon and other MO only manufacturing outfits like it since they basically double their margin. I'll bet distributors don't 'hope' this, unless they already sell direct, which a lot of US and UK distributors already do.

[ftf]

Hope by whom? It's still a flat market. If Canyon goes up 3-4%, somebody goes down 3-4%. I guess Canyon and other MO only manufacturing outfits like it since they basically double their margin. I'll bet distributors don't 'hope' this, unless they already sell direct, which a lot of US and UK distributors already do.

What is the point of distributors though, other than to take a cut, exactly?

All they are is at best a logistics company, which in this day and age isn't saying a lot, IMHO. In reality they are a warehouse, with a fedex account, that takes a cut.

If anything bike shops should hate the fact they have to go through a distributor, which just brings in the product and then marks it up, instead of everyone just buying straight from the source. This is a side argument though, as I'm sure US bike shops are going to love canyon.....


Yeah it's a flat market, but in a fair market it won't matter, supply and demand right? Who has the best product at the best price wins the customer RIGHT? Free market and all RIGHT?

What I find funny is pre internet, when it was hard to get things from overseas and what not these forces worked in favor of the bike shops, you pretty much had to go there, and they loved those forces, they loved the whole free market system, now it's turned on them, and boo hoo, woe is us, come support us for no reason! You need us right? Right? RIGHT?

The game has changed, and any bike shop that want's to stay in biz needs to realize this and change as well.

[Russian bear]

Canyon will have warehouses/customer service centers in Salt Lake and (some place on the east coast I forgot), so you won't have to call Germany if you need parts, warranty service etc.

Looking forward to these coming to the market. Just hope they can keep up with demand.

[FlashUNC]

What is the point of distributors though, other than to take a cut, exactly?

All they are is at best a logistics company, which in this day and age isn't saying a lot, IMHO. In reality they are a warehouse, with a fedex account, that takes a cut.

If anything bike shops should hate the fact they have to go through a distributor, which just brings in the product and then marks it up, instead of everyone just buying straight from the source. This is a side argument though, as I'm sure US bike shops are going to love canyon.....


Yeah it's a flat market, but in a fair market it won't matter, supply and demand right? Who has the best product at the best price wins the customer RIGHT? Free market and all RIGHT?

What I find funny is pre internet, when it was hard to get things from overseas and what not these forces worked in favor of the bike shops, you pretty much had to go there, and they loved those forces, they loved the whole free market system, now it's turned on them, and boo hoo, woe is us, come support us for no reason! You need us right? Right? RIGHT?

The game has changed, and any bike shop that want's to stay in biz needs to realize this and change as well.

So your solution is that instead of a few "warehouse, with a fedex account" relationships for a bike shop, they should have to manage dozens of individual relationships with suppliers across the world for various products?

And that those same suppliers now need to build relationships and track accounts for thousands of individual bike shops, across borders and geographies, currencies and taxation/importation areas?

[Lewis Moon]

So your solution is that instead of a few "warehouse, with a fedex account" relationships for a bike shop, they should have to manage dozens of individual relationships with suppliers across the world for various products?

And that those same suppliers now need to build relationships and track accounts for thousands of individual bike shops, across borders and geographies, currencies and taxation/importation areas?

That's what computers are for...no?

[ftf]

So your solution is that instead of a few "warehouse, with a fedex account" relationships for a bike shop, they should have to manage dozens of individual relationships with suppliers across the world for various products?

And that those same suppliers now need to build relationships and track accounts for thousands of individual bike shops, across borders and geographies, currencies and taxation/importation areas?


So you think that adding a middle man that increases the cost of things to the point where, apparently according to oldpotatoe in prior posts, puts it above what I can get from overseas is smart?

Obviously something has to give, I await your solution.

Plus honestly I don't see what the relationship really is, I order part part arrives. That's not a relationship that requires much.

[FlashUNC]

That's what computers are for...no?

And even with them its an exceedingly complex job. Perfect example is this thread. Its taken Canyon years to get to the point they can comfortably enter the US market with their supply chain issues. And they're just bringing their own product to market. What chance would an IBD have going it alone with distributor contacts and now having to managing dozens of supplier relationships simultaneously?

So you think that adding a middle man that increases the cost of things to the point where, apparently according to oldpotatoe in prior posts, puts it above what I can get from overseas is smart?

Obviously something has to give, I await your solution.

Plus honestly I don't see what the relationship really is, I order part part arrives. That's not a relationship that requires much.

I never offered one, because I don't pretend to be an expert in global supply chain logistics. The system that exists now is the cycling industry is, clearly, an imperfect one as the grey market and distributors across geographies are mucking things up.

Of course, maybe bike shops near you in Fantasyland are different where shop owners have a ton of free time to go manage global supplier relationships. Or suppliers near you have so few worries they can take on managing thousands of bike shop relationships across the globe.

[nate2351]

Plus honestly I don't see what the relationship really is, I order part part arrives. That's not a relationship that requires much.

That's because you don't buy product and/or use warranties on the scale of an LBS.

[ftf]

I never offered one, because I don't pretend to be an expert in global supply chain logistics. The system that exists now is the cycling industry is, clearly, an imperfect one as the grey market and distributors across geographies are mucking things up.

Of course, maybe bike shops near you in Fantasyland are different where shop owners have a ton of free time to go manage global supplier relationships. Or suppliers near you have so few worries they can take on managing thousands of bike shop relationships across the globe.

Thousands of relationships? In fantasy land here, bike shops carry maybe 6 bike lines, there are only 3 drivetrain manufacturers, usually only carry 2 and then they source from what I can tell 10-25 different parts manufacturers. Even if I tack on 100 random things I can't think of that's not even close to thousands. Maybe I'm wrong though.

[cinema]

they don't look inexpensive to me. a tarmac is cheaper than canyon 'ultimate' after usd conversion. what am i missing

[ftf]

they don't look inexpensive to me. an s works tarmac is like the same price as their 'ultimate' after conversion. what am i missing

Did you take off the Vat?

[cinema]

Did you take off the Vat?

no didn't think of that. so this ultimate frameset is 2499 euros with vat and a tarmac is 2750 frameset. i guess you really need to buy the whole bike to see savings

[FlashUNC]

Thousands of relationships? In fantasy land here, bike shops carry maybe 6 bike lines, there are only 3 drivetrain manufacturers, usually only carry 2 and then they source from what I can tell 10-25 different parts manufacturers. Even if I tack on 100 random things I can't think of that's not even close to thousands. Maybe I'm wrong though.

Oh no, you're right, an IBD can totally manage relationships with this list just fine:

https://qbp.com/brands/partners

Also, my point was that there are thousands of bike shops worldwide for suppliers to now manage if you disappear your so-called warehouses with FedEx accounts. Not thousands of suppliers for bike shops to manage.

[tuscanyswe]

They are hard to get in Europe too I think, you have to wait to get one it seems.

You have to wait even longer when its time f0r warranty issues..

[ftf]

Oh no, you're right, an IBD can totally manage relationships with this list just fine:

https://qbp.com/brands/partners

Also, my point was that there are thousands of bike shops worldwide for suppliers to now manage if you disappear your so-called warehouses with FedEx accounts. Not thousands of suppliers for bike shops to manage.

You forget that someone is managing them anyways, so the supplier does it instead of the distributor.

Just a small example, who is the distributor for Colnago in the US now?

Colnago is. And why?

http://www.bicycleretailer.com/north-america/2012/02/09/colnago-resurgent-us#.V0cvT76P7aQ

[livingminimal]

You forget that someone is managing them anyways, so the supplier does it instead of the distributor.

Just a small example, who is the distributor for Colnago in the US now?

Colnago is. And why?

http://www.bicycleretailer.com/north-america/2012/02/09/colnago-resurgent-us#.V0cvT76P7aQ

The other side of the coin is that most manufacturers that are at a decent scale really don't have the capacity to handle having individual relationships with each dealer. Especially with a small parts mfg. Let's say, for example, Vittoria. How the hell would they manage to work with every retailer on a one v one basis?

the LBS model, where you have some (albeit limited) choice is only going to work if they have a relationship with distributors. That's a two way street, its what retailers want.

Direct-to-consumer isn't the same kind of relationship at all.

[ftf]

The other side of the coin is that most manufacturers that are at a decent scale really don't have the capacity to handle having individual relationships with each dealer. Especially with a small parts mfg. Let's say, for example, Vittoria. How the hell would they manage to work with every retailer on a one v one basis?

the LBS model, where you have some (albeit limited) choice is only going to work if they have a relationship with distributors. That's a two way street, its what retailers want.

Direct-to-consumer isn't the same kind of relationship at all.

They hire some people to work with the retailers, though honestly with tires, your example, how many warranties are their going to be? What relationship needs to be there, except I the bike shop order the tires, they ship the tires, receipt of tires.

Sigh. Yeah I know it's always been done way A. and I'm sure there are reasons for that, but that doesn't mean it's the best or only way. Example: Colnago again, if you believe what Colnago says Distributors all but sunk the brand in the us.

[livingminimal]

They hire some people to work with the retailers, though honestly with tires, your example, how many warranties are their going to be? What relationship needs to be there, except I the bike shop order the tires, they ship the tires, receipt of tires.

Sigh. Yeah I know it's always been done way A. and I'm sure there are reasons for that, but that doesn't mean it's the best or only way. Example: Colnago again, if you believe what Colnago says Distributors all but sunk the brand in the us.

Not to nitpick all the logistics, but the delta in selling to a distributor would also have to make up for individual shipping which would be more expensive. Remember a lot of the cycling companies don't make anything at all. They're brands and R&D houses but don't manufacturer anything. Stuff is often drop-shipped straight to distributors. I think its simply a two-way burden for the direct sales model when it comes to company > LBS. Company > Consumer might be different. And even then, if you're buying online, you're essentially buying from a distributor already.

Many retailers will tell you its something else that sunk Colnago. That story definitely has a couple of different sides.

PS Colnago = Giant. Same thing. Different paint.

[nate2351]

Thousands of relationships? In fantasy land here, bike shops carry maybe 6 bike lines, there are only 3 drivetrain manufacturers, usually only carry 2 and then they source from what I can tell 10-25 different parts manufacturers. Even if I tack on 100 random things I can't think of that's not even close to thousands. Maybe I'm wrong though.

Very wrong.

Bike shops need multiple options for every item they stock to deal with availability. This is a seasonal industry and by the end of the summer it's exceedingly difficult to find certain items. Our shop alone works with Trek, Specialized, QBP, Hawley, BTI, J&B, Cyclone, and Highway 2 just to keep inventory. Managing relations with these distributors is a full time position for an office worker (and yes he has a computer). You might be able to imagine how many people it would take to manage this if every company was direct.

[ftf]

Not to nitpick all the logistics, but the delta in selling to a distributor would also have to make up for individual shipping which would be more expensive. Remember a lot of the cycling companies don't make anything at all. They're brands and R&D houses but don't manufacturer anything. Stuff is often drop-shipped straight to distributors. I think its simply a two-way burden for the direct sales model when it comes to company > LBS. Company > Consumer might be different. And even then, if you're buying online, you're essentially buying from a distributor already.

Many retailers will tell you its something else that sunk Colnago. That story definitely has a couple of different sides.

PS Colnago = Giant. Same thing. Different paint.

So again the supplier hires some people to deal with it, they mark up the prices, instead of the current system of the distributor getting that cut.

I'm not saying ALL distributors should go away, but most of them are redundant. Why does shimano need a distributor etc.


As for some/all, think it's some, Colnagos being built by Giant, that's true, but Giant makes bikes for pretty much everyone. This is merely a strawman.

[nate2351]

how many warranties are their going to be?

We have a rack in the warehouse with 20 5g tubs for warranties that get filled up bi-weekly. Each bin is assigned to a sales rep from a different distributor or company.

This does not even address bike/frame warranty

[ftf]

Very wrong.

Bike shops need multiple options for every item they stock to deal with availability. This is a seasonal industry and by the end of the summer it's exceedingly difficult to find certain items. Our shop alone works with Trek, Specialized, QBP, Hawley, BTI, J&B, Cyclone, and Highway 2 just to keep inventory. Managing relations with these distributors is a full time position for an office worker (and yes he has a computer). You might be able to imagine how many people it would take to manage this if every company was direct.

Honestly I don't see how the lack of availability is a plus for distributors, sounds like they aren't doing a very good job to me. If you consolidated all the inventory it would either be there or not, and it would be more clear to the manufacture what they would need to do, and what they would need to produce year over year.

[ftf]

Frankly, the reality is again, just because it's done a certain way, doesn't make that way the best just because it is sort of working, which I would say it is not really working.

I also don't think I have all or really any of the answers, but merely defending the current system because it's in place, and not being open to change isn't helping.

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

Hope by whom? It's still a flat market. If Canyon goes up 3-4%, somebody goes down 3-4%. I guess Canyon and other MO only manufacturing outfits like it since they basically double their margin. I'll bet distributors don't 'hope' this, unless they already sell direct, which a lot of US and UK distributors already do.

This. Every Canyon sold will be a Trek/Spesh/'Dale that is not. This means jack to me, but what do I know, I have two carbon bikes, a '07 Bianchi XL and a '12 Parlee Z3 SL. Dated in the nano-millisecond update world of today's carbon, according to the marketers. Meh.

[nate2351]

Honestly I don't see how the lack of availability is a plus for distributors, sounds like they aren't doing a very good job to me. If you consolidated all the inventory it would either be there or not, and it would be more clear to the manufacture what they would need to do, and what they would need to produce year over year.

But then every LBS would need an army of part buyers to keep product on the walls.

[ftf]

But then every LBS would need an army of part buyers to keep product on the walls.

Why, I could buy a LBS's inventory in parts from websites in a couple of days really. Even from overseas.

[nate2351]

But then every LBS would need an army of part buyers to keep product on the walls.

Not to mention clothing, nutrition, and the actual bikes.

[nate2351]

Why, I could buy a LBS's inventory in parts from websites in a couple of days really. Even from overseas.

It's not that simple

[FlashUNC]

Why, I could buy a LBS's inventory in parts from websites in a couple of days really. Even from overseas.

Know where a lot of those parts are coming from? Distributors!

Shimano isn't packing up your individual order in Sakai and shipping it out to Backwater, USA.

[ftf]

Know where a lot of those parts are coming from? Distributors!

Shimano isn't packing up your individual order in Sakai and shipping it out to Backwater, USA.

Well I assume first it was in Shimano's hands, then it went to a distributor so they could pack it up and send it to some websites warehouse, so then they could pack it up again and send it to me.

So why why not just shimano to websites warehouse then to me?

Edit:
In 1960 when there was no internet, no vast array of computers and technology, yeah sure distributors made sense, now I'm not seeing it. Frankly to me it just sounds like people that are concerned if things changed, then they might be the ones that get chopped. But like I said I probably don't have any answers.

[nate2351]

Well I assume first it was in Shimano's hands, then it went to a distributor so they could pack it up and send it to some websites warehouse, so then they could pack it up again and send it to me.

So why why not just shimano to websites warehouse then to me?

Edit:
In 1960 when there was no internet, no vast array of computers and technology, yeah sure distributors made sense, now I'm not seeing it. Frankly to me it just sounds like people that are concerned if things changed, then they might be the ones that get chopped. But like I said I probably don't have any answers.

Which is cleaner for a company, selling bulk to distributors or piece meal to individuals. Who holds a higher priority to a company, a whole sale account or an individual? Which option requires more man power (higher cost) to operate? Consumers pay that cost at the end of the day. The outcome is Shimano makes more money and parts become harder to get.

[ftf]

Which is cleaner for a company, selling bulk to distributors or piece meal to individuals. Who holds a higher priority to a company, a whole sale account or an individual? Which option requires more man power (higher cost) to operate? Consumers pay that cost at the end of the day. The outcome is Shimano makes more money and parts become harder to get.

Humm so it's harder for the company, and has higher cost but they somehow make more money?

Honestly this argument makes no sense.

Yes I do agree it will be harder for the company, they will have to hire some new people.

Yes it will be higher cost, but they can now sell for more, as they aren't having to account for a markup from the distributor.

There is still a supply demand curve, and price pressure from competitors.

Furthermore, I think actually there will be more parts availability as now the manufacture will have direct feedback on how much to produce, I've actually already mentioned this.

Not seeing how this is going to cost me any more. Which is the entire point of all this right to get junk to me the customer.

[ergott]

If you are a purchaser for a LBS you don't want to have every brand you carry ship to you separately. The benefit of a distributor is combined product and cheaper shipping. Look at QBP for example. A shop can get almost all their soft goods from the same place. They consolidate shipping to the point where it's probably even free (orders over a certain value). If said shop had to make separate orders/shipments from Castelli, Sidi, Greefield, Kenda, etc. costs would increase.

Distributors also tend to have multiple warehouses so they can ship a large volume of their products within a couple of days.

Direct sales might work for larger ticket items in the shop such as complete bikes, but it wouldn't be advantageous for the majority of retail business they do.

[ftf]

If you are a purchaser for a LBS you don't want to have every brand you carry ship to you separately. The benefit of a distributor is combined product and cheaper shipping. Look at QBP for example. A shop can get almost all their soft goods from the same place. They consolidate shipping to the point where it's probably even free (orders over a certain value). If said shop had to make separate orders/shipments from Castelli, Sidi, Greefield, Kenda, etc. costs would increase.



I'm just going to focus on this, as it's probably the best argument, however, since there is no distributor markup, the clothes, parts, whatever would be conceivably cheaper, negating the shipping costs.

[nate2351]

Furthermore, I think actually there will be more parts availability as now the manufacture will have direct feedback on how much to produce, I've actually already mentioned this.



Do you think that companies don't do research on how much to produce?

[ergott]

I'm just going to focus on this, as it's probably the best argument, however, since there is no distributor markup, the clothes, parts, whatever would be conceivably cheaper, negating the shipping costs.

If this were always the case all industries would follow this chain, but they don't. You find distributors in many different retail markets.

Each business model (direct/distributor) has its advantages and that's why both are practiced. If it were that simple, distributors would have disappeared from the retail industry a long time ago.

[ftf]

If this were always the case all industries would follow this chain, but they don't. You find distributors in many different retail markets.

Each business model (direct/distributor) has its advantages and that's why both are practiced. If it were that simple, distributors would have disappeared from the retail industry a long time ago.

Actually I think it takes longer to change a system than you are giving credit for, it's true distributors have been around probably for longer than I care to think about, hundreds of years for sure, perhaps more, did romans have distributors, I would guess they did, even if a new better system arose, especially in a short period of time, like say how long easy access to the internet and understanding of what it can do has been around. It takes time for people to think about something a different way and embrace it. Take disc brakes for example, they have been around for a long time now, but now are just coming in to the road market, and some people are standoffish about them, you can count me in that category, however I'm sure they will displace rim brakes by the next time I'm buying a bicycle.

So yes getting rid of a system that has probably been around since the dawn of retail, is going to take longer than 20 years even if there is a better system, as you can tell there is much push back since it's never been done.

To be clear I'm not talking about direct to consumer, that gets rid of the lbs as well.

[ftf]

Do you think that companies don't do research on how much to produce?

Obviously they do, but with a more direct system it would provide higher resolution, if you will, of what to do.

[livingminimal]

Im not the smartest man in the world, but I'm certainly not the dumbest, and I can't for the life of me figure out why this matters. Direct-to-consumer is going to continue to grow, not shrink, the share of the market going through the LBS will continue to shrink, not grow.

[ftf]

Im not the smartest man in the world, but I'm certainly not the dumbest, and I can't for the life of me figure out why this matters. Direct-to-consumer is going to continue to grow, not shrink, the share of the market going through the LBS will continue to shrink, not grow.

I Agree with this.


I would say it matters for those who complain about how bike shops, and other businesses like them are dying. Obviously if things stay the same they are gone. I'm not in this group. However the seemingly monthly, do you support your lbs thread, or how much more are you willing to pay thread, proves that some do care about it.

[livingminimal]

I Agree with this.


I would say it matters for those who complain about how bike shops, and other businesses like them are dying. Obviously if things stay the same they are gone. I'm not in this group. However the seemingly monthly, do you support your lbs thread, or how much more are you willing to pay thread, proves that some do care about it.


There's never going to be a model where you could pay the same at the LBS as you could via online retail and keep the LBS doors open based on product sales, and retailers barely care.

I don't think the discussion around the LBS model shifting to service just so people can hear themselves say it. I think it's a very real thing. Asking a shop to increase overhead to manage a whole slew of conduits to inventory with each individual manufacturer and then opening several boxes and everything else creates expensive headaches that would even make LBS jobs more complicated/time consuming. Consumers will pay that cost.

The distribution model isn't going anywhere, and we consumers will continue to face the pressure if acquiescing to that, or paying a higher premium at the LBS.

[ftf]

There's never going to be a model where you could pay the same at the LBS as you could via online retail and keep the LBS doors open based on product sales, and retailers barely care.

I don't think the discussion around the LBS model shifting to service just so people can hear themselves say it. I think it's a very real thing. Asking a shop to increase overhead to manage a whole slew of conduits to inventory with each individual manufacturer and then opening several boxes and everything else creates expensive headaches that would even make LBS jobs more complicated/time consuming. Consumers will pay that cost.

The distribution model isn't going anywhere, and we consumers will continue to face the pressure if acquiescing to that, or paying a higher premium at the LBS.

I don't think it's so much as paying the same but closing the gap, so the premium is lower to have it right now. though in the long run I'm sure that customers will have same day shipping available, as amazon does where I live. So, that will be out as well.

[dustyrider]

Not sure this new system of doing things is really any better...canyon apology (http://m.pinkbike.com/news/an-update-from-roman-arnold-to-all-canyon-customers-2016.html). I guess we need to be more open minded. :)