Elite French special forces units to help protect TdF

[smontanaro]

This item popped up on my radar screen today. FYI...

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/sports/tour-de-france-france-s-elite-gign-protect-cyclists-fans-n580006

[Mzilliox]

sad the world has come to this...

[MattTuck]

Indeed, sad that that the racers no longer handle their own security ;)

http://cdn.velonews.competitor.com/files/2014/03/000_ARP2085558.jpg

[eippo1]

Indeed, sad that that the racers no longer handle their own security ;)




Maybe they just need a bunch of Badger clones, but then that's how we get to the Clone Wars and the downfall of the galaxy.

[Uncle Jam's Army]

They'll probably surrender at the first sign of Greipel, Kittel, and Martin.

[AllanVarcoe]

Maybe they just need a bunch of Badger clones, but then that's how we get to the Clone Wars and the downfall of the galaxy.

Order66 :eek:

[AllanVarcoe]

They'll probably surrender at the first sign of Greipel, Kittel, and Martin.

Froome will get picked on. :(

[msl819]

Indeed, sad that that the racers no longer handle their own security ;)

http://cdn.velonews.competitor.com/files/2014/03/000_ARP2085558.jpg

And sadder still is that what they are protecting fans and riders from is much more severe than this picture.

[choke]

Frankly I'm surprised that they haven't been involved in protecting the TdF in the past...though maybe they have and this is the first time that it's been publicized.

[cadence90]

And sadder still is that what they are protecting fans and riders from is much more severe than this picture.

Exactly.
After the Boston Marathon and Paris Nov. 15, imagine the logistical nightmare of trying to secure this course. The Champs is going to be Security Zone Ground Zero on July 24.

[Anarchist]

They'll probably surrender at the first sign of Greipel, Kittel, and Martin.

Not even remotely funny.

[Mikej]

-

[soulspinner]

frankly i'm surprised that they haven't been involved in protecting the tdf in the past...though maybe they have and this is the first time that it's been publicized.

+1

[Black Dog]

Not even remotely funny.

Oh, it is a bit funny...:)

[ultraman6970]

The only elite french forces I know is Jean Reno, he was able to go face to face with godzilla.

[cadence90]

Oh, it is a bit funny...:)

No, it really is not.
At least, I do not see the humor in this case.

[ultraman6970]

What would be interesting is to see uncle sam sending people there to save them "again" :P

[sfscott]

Not even remotely funny.

Actually, I think it is. :banana:

Q: Why are French boulevards lined with trees?
A: So Germans can march in the shade.

[pbarry]

There are elite, special, or undercover forces on the sidelines and in the crowd on the final stage on the Champs Elysees. Have been for decades.

[sg8357]

Not even remotely funny.

Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Euro!

[Louis]

What's really funny is that any one of those French GIGN guys could take on any 10 of the loud-talking "Freedom Fries" guys on this forum, even with one arm tied behind his back and blindfolded.

[cadence90]

Some things posted on this forum are really stupefying.

[572cv]

Oh, it is a bit funny...:)

No, not really, if you really think about it.

The French are our allies, our friends, and these special forces are as tough as nails. Why they get a bad rap in this country is beyond me, except that we Americans seem to have the ability to form prejudices seemingly at will. The French saved our country at the outset. Look up Admiral DeGrasse and Yorktown. Develop a new respect for what they are as a collection of peoples, and what they have developed as a country. Then, carry that sense of discovery on to other countries, and peoples. Especially to places where people have a passion for bicycles, our common passion. Lets find and support the strengths of nations that might possibly envision doing the same for us, instead of tearing down without any particular sense of understanding.

End of rant.....sorry.

[veggieburger]

Have you heard about the new French tank? It's 6 speeds! One forward, 5 reverse.

:banana::)

[skiezo]

They are a bunch of top notch anti terror guys. I think it is a good idea but I do not think the the french government should foot the bill for a private function.
I did some training with these guy about 25 years ago as well as the FFL.
It is just sad that it has to come to such drastic measures.

[cadence90]

They are a bunch of top notch anti terror guys. I think it is a good idea but I do not think the the french government should foot the bill for a private function.

It is just sad that it has to come to such drastic measures.
Aren't there anti-terror, etc., special services now present at big US sporting events like the Super Bowl? Perhaps not, I don't know; but after Boston I would think and even hope so.

I think the threat, especially in Paris this summer, will be very real (since it has already been declared) and should be policed at very high levels.

It is horribly sad, but also horribly real.

[rustychisel]

... maybe just a little bit funny. Irreverence is okay when tempered with wisdom.

The gendarmerie running the rolling closures are plenty tough enough for us cissies.

Anyway, in 2009 my partner and I were in Castelnaudary - home of the cassoulet - having dinner at a bar on the town square. It just happens to be the nearest town to the base of the 4th Foreign Legion, and the bars were packed. There was more bulging bicep than tight t-shirt, if you get my meaning... definitely not the sort of place where you would want to start a brawl.

[Black Dog]

No, not really, if you really think about it.

The French are our allies, our friends, and these special forces are as tough as nails. Why they get a bad rap in this country is beyond me, except that we Americans seem to have the ability to form prejudices seemingly at will. The French saved our country at the outset. Look up Admiral DeGrasse and Yorktown. Develop a new respect for what they are as a collection of peoples, and what they have developed as a country. Then, carry that sense of discovery on to other countries, and peoples. Especially to places where people have a passion for bicycles, our common passion. Lets find and support the strengths of nations that might possibly envision doing the same for us, instead of tearing down without any particular sense of understanding.

End of rant.....sorry.

Ok. First of all I come at this from Canada and my 1st language is French as are my ancestors. People can both have deep respect for a nation and still poke some fun too. No nation or culture is perfect past or present. Not everything need be a simple dichotomy.

[Louis]

It just happens to be the nearest town to the base of the 4th Foreign Legion, and the bars were packed. There was more bulging bicep than tight t-shirt, if you get my meaning... definitely not the sort of place where you would want to start a brawl.

Wusses - you could have taken them no problem...

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/db/7b/39/db7b392c38c2d32a62a424f7a8e37b02.jpg

[rustychisel]

yeah, right...

and that nice man looks like he might be French Samoan. Can you imagine one of his life decisions: member of the meanest rugby team on the planet or joining the Legion Etrangere?

[eippo1]

Wusses - you could have taken them no problem...

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/db/7b/39/db7b392c38c2d32a62a424f7a8e37b02.jpg

That dude looks like he belongs in Gears of War. He might even be the guy in Gears.

https://images-eds-ssl.xboxlive.com/image?url=8Oaj9Ryq1G1_p3lLnXlsaZgGzAie6Mnu24_PawYu DYIoH77pJ.X5Z.MqQPibUVTcAYt268yqdRMhwbaHYI6E.982ob qOeDAwcQW57HvHxqq5QrdR4_J1Pr5FsbxL7ZJeF3AVhb3jLgOg nDX7tcwHYcc7WZpjIxFJFNHkttlcZ4n8N6rc755RJnWz4zQ6LQ SYozl1EF5EjrlverM3RHl218frv.D.m1y1lmbUECQQ7UM-&format=jpg

[veggieburger]

No, not really, if you really think about it.

The French are our allies, our friends, and these special forces are as tough as nails. Why they get a bad rap in this country is beyond me, except that we Americans seem to have the ability to form prejudices seemingly at will. End of rant.....sorry.

Yeah...this post kind of makes it sound like everyone on this forum is American, and only the Americans make fun of the French military/people/customer service/cigarettes. No and non. Like Black Dog said, just because there's a joke being made doesn't mean you don't love a country and its people. If you want some zingers about the Dutch, I have a jillion of em....and I'm Dutch.

[54ny77]

Inspector Clouseau is on the job.

http://cdn.velonews.competitor.com/files/2012/07/ClusteauVanGarderenTDF15_712-011.jpg

[goonster]

Yeah...this post kind of makes it sound like everyone on this forum is American, and only the Americans make fun of the French military/people/customer service/cigarettes. No and non.

OK, but mostly when Americans make fun of the French it is not based on any sort of actual experience or historical context, and therefore especially dumb and grating.

Germans, post-adolescence, don't crack those jokes.

On the security issue, there is also the matter of a major soccer tournament (10 venues, 24 team base camps) in France this summer. Euro 2106 runs from 10 June to 10 July, so there is overlap with the TdF. They are feeling vulnerable, and very much on edge this year.

[Chris]

No, not really, if you really think about it.

The French are our allies, our friends, and these special forces are as tough as nails. Why they get a bad rap in this country is beyond me, except that we Americans seem to have the ability to form prejudices seemingly at will. The French saved our country at the outset. Look up Admiral DeGrasse and Yorktown. Develop a new respect for what they are as a collection of peoples, and what they have developed as a country. Then, carry that sense of discovery on to other countries, and peoples. Especially to places where people have a passion for bicycles, our common passion. Lets find and support the strengths of nations that might possibly envision doing the same for us, instead of tearing down without any particular sense of understanding.

End of rant.....sorry.

Here's my take. The French jokes are jokes. They are funny and have been made since the Germans rolled in to France. The reality is that France has been a pretty formidable nation with which to mess throughout history. They've had their losses, but whatever. Their troops, especially GIGN which is less like a police SWAT team and more like the FBI Hostage Rescue Unit are bad asses. As are most elite troops around the world. At any rate, I think the thing that bugs Americans about the French is that they are very much politically like America is. They go their own way and don't think that just because some other nation said they should or should not do something that they are going to follow along blindly. People got their panties in a wad when the French saw through the invasion of Iraq and chose to sit out that disaster. No one said anything about how the French Foreign Legion was an integral part of Desert Storm or how they have performed in Afghanistan or Africa. Americans just get pissed because GWB said if you're not with us you're against and the French said, enjoy the quagmire... I admire them. I go to France as often as I can. It's a wonderful place. As is America.

[572cv]

Yeah...this post kind of makes it sound like everyone on this forum is American, and only the Americans make fun of the French military/people/customer service/cigarettes. No and non. Like Black Dog said, just because there's a joke being made doesn't mean you don't love a country and its people. If you want some zingers about the Dutch, I have a jillion of em....and I'm Dutch.

OK, sure. I am glad that there is an international forum presence, and I really don't like being PC all the time, but old tropes about the character of a people can be taken negatively. My dad, who is a lawyer, has a thousand lawyer jokes. No harm in poking fun at your own foibles. I guess that for me, it can be hard to tell on the internet when someone is throwing something out with a nod and a wink, if there isn't a nod and a wink added in.

Thanks very much for adding your comments.

[Uncle Jam's Army]

I guess since my post stirred up the pot here I should make it clear. If you don't know me, and haven't followed my postings here, most of my postings should be taken with a nod and a wink. First, my post was not literal. Certainly, no armed forces are going to surrender to a bike racer.

When France lost to Germany in the 2014 World Cup, I posted here "France surrenders to Germany . . . again." People had a good laugh over it, and certainly nobody took umbrage. BTW, I consider Zizou one of the all-time greats in soccer.

I have been to France and I think it is a beautiful country and the people were very friendly and helpful--contrary to what I expected. It doesn't mean I can't have a little fun at the country's expense once in a while. If someone doesn't find any humor in my post, I'm ok with that. Most of my attempts at humor fail.

[93legendti]

My Dad was wounded twice liberating the French and Belgians. As for my murdered relatives...

"PARIS — Early on a Thursday morning in July 1942, more than 4,000 police officers set out in pairs through the streets of occupied Paris, carrying arrest orders for scores of Jewish men, women and children. Within days, 13,152 people had been rounded up for deportation to death camps. No more than 100 would survive.

The mass arrests, the largest in wartime France, were planned and carried out not by the Nazi occupiers but by the French. That difficult reality, for years denied, obscured, willfully ignored or forgotten, is now increasingly accepted here, historians and French officials say, part of a broader reckoning with France’s uncomfortable wartime past.

The 70th anniversary of that dark episode — known as the Vel d’Hiv roundup, after the arena where many of those arrested were taken — has brought a flurry of commemorations this month, with official ceremonies, museum exhibits, wide news media coverage and an address by President François Hollande. Perhaps most telling, though, is a modest installation at the municipal hall of the Third Arrondissement in central Paris, where the national police are exhibiting for the first time the documents that record the operation in cold administrative detail."
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/world/europe/france-reflects-on-role-in-rounding-up-jews-for-death-camps.html



"France's government's complicity during World War II in transporting its own Jewish citizens to Nazi camps is the subject of the French film "La Rafle," which made its South Florida debut Feb. 17 but premieres tonight at Cinema Paradiso in Fort Lauderdale.

Goldstein is one of an estimated 6,000 Holocaust survivors residing in Miami-Dade, Broward and Palm Beach counties, said Jack Karako, the director of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum's southeast office in Boca Raton.

"The film is absolute truth," said Goldstein, who watched "La Rafle" (or "The Roundup") this past November during a Boca Raton fundraiser for the Holocaust organization March of the Living. "They arrested all the Jews on the outskirts of Paris and brought them to the Velodrome d'Hiver. There were many French who were for the deportation of Jews. It was a bad time – very, very bad."

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2012-02-24/news/fl-holocaust-film-022412-20120224-19_1_holocaust-survivor-buchenwald-death-camp-rosette-goldstein

From Yad Vashem:

"At dawn on the 16th of July, 1942, some 4,500 French policemen began a mass arrest of foreign Jews living in Paris, at the behest of the German authorities.

Over 11,000 Jews were arrested on the same day, and confined to the Winter Stadium, or Velodrome d’Hiver, known as the Vel’ d’Hiv, in Paris. The detainees were kept in extremely crowded conditions, almost without water, food and sanitary facilities. Within a week the number of Jews held in the Vel’ d’Hiv had reached 13,000, among them more than 4,000 children. Children between the ages of two and 16 were arrested together with their parents. Among those detained were Jews from Germany, Austria, Poland, the Czech Republic and Russia. Though many Jews had been forewarned of the danger, they had assumed the deportation would only target men, as they had in the past; consequently, women and children did not go into hiding. In the week following the arrests, the Jews were taken from the Winter Stadium to the concentration camps of Pithiviers and Beaune-la-Rolande in the Loiret region south of Paris, and to Drancy, near Paris. At the end of July and the beginning of August, the Jews who were being detained in these camps were separated from their children and deported. Before deportation, each prisoner’s head was shaved, and his or her body was subjected to a violent search. Most of the deportees were sent to Auschwitz and murdered. More than 3,000 babies and children were left alone in Pithiviers and Beaune-la-Rolande. At the end of August and during the month of September these children were deported alone, among adult strangers, in sealed railway wagons, to Auschwitz, where they were murdered."




I can see why people are offended at some one who dares to criticize the French. Wait, no, I can't.
Carry on...

[goonster]

My Dad was wounded twice liberating the French and Belgians. As for my murdered relatives...

Thank you for proving my point, which is that none of this is good fodder for jokes.

The historical context, with respect to the French being crap at war = Napoleon (for starters).

[54ny77]

good grief. someone's always offended.

can't please all the people, as the saying goes.

and some are probably offended at that saying.

since when did it become a right to not be offended?

how did people survive all the offensiveness pre-internet? did life somehow go on?

[veggieburger]

Everything I know about the French military I learned from Monty Python.

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/villains/images/1/14/French-Monty-Python-Holy-Grail-French-taunt.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120724171729

[Chris]

Oy Vey. It's one of the oldest nations on earth. There's a little more history there than what one tiny tiny percent of a population did in 1942. Are we as Americans to all be derided because of the atrocities committed on the Native Americans?

It was a joke. Laugh or don't.

[gdw]

Lighten up folks. We make jokes about other nationalities and they make jokes about us....big deal.
As to our history with France, it has had its ups and downs. They were the enemy of the British in colonial times until they were defeated in the Seven Years/French and Indian War. Our allies towards the end of the Revolution. Enemies afterward, ever heard of the XYZ Affair and Quasi War? Hot and cold until this day.

[rustychisel]

Well, look, with respect to the latter posts, even the grossest of events or issues can be joked about... you've heard of 'gallows humour', surely? Does it surprise you to know the death camps had their own rich vein of humour? They did.

So we can probably afford to all lighten TFU on occasions.
And if your outrage is buttressed by experiences, reflected hurt or whatever, then let's be a little historic for a moment.

My father was shot down twice, wounded twice, fighting that crap. My partner is German and has written academic papers on the reflection of guilt through nationhood, which is strong and persuasive.

Cutting and pasting a little history to make a little point gets you nothing, unless you're aware the French have a long tradition of virulent anti-Semitism, and it didn't just start with Action Francaise or the affaire Dreyfuss. It continues to this day.

Oh, and a news flash... Napoleon lost, actually, It took an Allied coalition to beat him, much like other more recent military campaigns, but in that case the US didn't turn up rather than turn up late, so you may not have heard. [that was poor humour, BTW].

[gdw]

We didn't have to "turn up." The only threat to us was the army he sent to Haiti and his acquisition of New Orleans from Spain. Fortunately his attempt to take back Haiti failed after his army was defeated, most of the soldiers needed for reestablishing a colonial empire in the Americas died, and we ended up with a big chunk of land in a deal known as the Louisiana Purchase as a result. Winners without firing a shot.:beer:


PS - Anyone want to buy a french rifle? Never been fired and only dropped once....

[mistermo]

History Lesson:

What is horribly misunderstood by Americans, who crack jokes about the French, is the context of the French situation in WW2.

Only a generation earlier, in WWI, the French lost an entire generation of young men. Nearly 1.5 MILLION were killed, and another 4+ MILLION were injured. This is 10X the number that the US lost in a country that was less than half our size. To put this in modern day context, if the US lost the same % of young men today, it would be more than 11 MILLION and 48 MILLION killed or injured.

Then along come the Germans in WW2 and forge a deal to "occupy" France. Sure, the French could've mounted a futile resistance, but they knew it was doomed from the start. By contrast, look at Poland and the other countries that resisted. What's left of Warsaw pre-WW2? Nothing!

[Chris]

So true. If you listen to Dan Carlin's Blueprint for Armeggedon this gives you some perspective with which the French were contending.

[93legendti]

Thank you for proving my point, which is that none of this is good fodder for jokes.

The historical context, with respect to the French being crap at war = Napoleon (for starters).


You missed my point.

It is not only fodder for jokes, it is fodder for contempt.

The French not only didn't fight, they rounded up their own citizens to be murdered. At a velodrome, no less.

The French police voluntarily rounded up 3,000 Jewish children and KNEW they would be murdered.

I'll make jokes (and then some) about the French and their military till the day I die.


A velodrome-only the French could turn it into a holding pen for soon to be murder victims:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/17/france-vel-d-hiv-70-anniversary_n_1678941.html

We will have to disagree.

[93legendti]

History Lesson:

What is horribly misunderstood by Americans, who crack jokes about the French, is the context of the French situation in WW2.

Only a generation earlier, in WWI, the French lost an entire generation of young men. Nearly 1.5 MILLION were killed, and another 4+ MILLION were injured. This is 10X the number that the US lost in a country that was less than half our size. To put this in modern day context, if the US lost the same % of young men today, it would be more than 11 MILLION and 48 MILLION killed or injured.

Then along come the Germans in WW2 and forge a deal to "occupy" France. Sure, the French could've mounted a futile resistance, but they knew it was doomed from the start. By contrast, look at Poland and the other countries that resisted. What's left of Warsaw pre-WW2? Nothing!

Indeed. The world should have resisted the urge to fight the Nazis and Japanese. Think how many lives would have been spared.

In fact, why fight wars at all? Just compare on paper who has the bigger army and they get to control the world. Who needs freedom as long as you alive? Brilliant!

Psss - you might want to read "The Rape of Nan King".

[Chris]

You missed my point.

It is not only fodder for jokes, it is fodder for contempt.

The French not only didn't fight, they rounded up their own citizens to be murdered. At a velodrome, no less.

The French police voluntarily rounded up 3,000 Jewish children and KNEW they would be murdered.

I'll make jokes (and then some) about the French and their military till the day I die.


A velodrome-only the French could turn it into a holding pen for soon to be murder victims:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/17/france-vel-d-hiv-70-anniversary_n_1678941.html

We will have to disagree.

Do you not see the irony in blaming a whole nation of people for the acts of some? It smacks of the same bigotry of which I know you so vehemently oppose. There were millions of French who opposed the Nazis at every turn and did everything they could to protect the Jews amongst them.

On a further derailment of this thread, has anyone read the book Operation Paperclip? It documents the race to get the Nazi scientists and bring them to America. Often to avoid any incrimination for what they had done in an effort to advance American science. I had known the history to this to a degree but the details are completely outrageous.

[mistermo]

Indeed. The world should have resisted the urge to fight the Nazis and Japanese. Think how many lives would have been spared.

In fact, why fight wars at all? Just compare on paper who has the bigger army and they get to control the world. Who needs freedom as long as you alive? Brilliant!

Psss - you might want to read "The Rape of Nan King".

I recognize your sarcasm, but at some point self preservation has to kick in. There was NO WAY the French could defeat the Germans in WW2.

Hell, if we're going to crack jokes about the French, then the US should be fair game too. With overwhelming military superiority, after more than a decade, we've been unable to defeat a ragtag militia. After a couple thousand deaths, we lost our appetite for war and essentially packed it in. And we crack jokes about the French military?!

[veggieburger]

I recognize your sarcasm, but at some point self preservation has to kick in. There was NO WAY the French could defeat the Germans in WW2.

Hell, if we're going to crack jokes about the French, then the US should be fair game too. With overwhelming military superiority, after more than a decade, we've been unable to defeat a ragtag militia. After a couple thousand deaths, we lost our appetite for war and essentially packed it in. And we crack jokes about the French military?!

Oh there's plenty of jokes about the US military/foreign policy/etc. They are just not told in certain flag-waving circles.

[firerescuefin]

Hell, if we're going to crack jokes about the French, then the US should be fair game too. With overwhelming military superiority, after more than a decade, we've been unable to defeat a ragtag militia. After a couple thousand deaths, we lost our appetite for war and essentially packed it in. And we crack jokes about the French military?!

I think your jokes would be aimed at your US elected officials not your military. Rules of engagement aren't decided by those on the pointed end of the spear.

[gdw]

+1 Our current administration hasn't been trying to win but contain and hopefully stabilize the region. We're also very much still at war in Afghanistan despite what the White House claims. We've cut back on our troops but have lots of contractors doing the dirty work.
http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/05/18/private-contractors-are-the-silent-majority-of-obamas-military-mercenaries-iraq-afghanistan/

.

[mistermo]

I think your jokes would be aimed at your US elected officials not your military. Rules of engagement aren't decided by those on the pointed end of the spear.

Mostly agree. But any jokes (I haven't made any) should be levied at the US in whole. After a trivial number of deaths (compared to the 1.5million French casualties of WW1), 'we the people' elected politicians who pursued a policy of retreat and disengagement.

If the French have this reputation after losing 1.5million in the previous war, then facing a superior opponent, then where does that leave the US after losing a relatively insignificant number in Vietnam and facing a vastly inferior opponent?

[wooly]

Wow, I tuned out after seeing the pics of the Badger kicking' ass and this thread evolves to this? Let's get back to ...

http://cdn.velonews.competitor.com/files/2014/03/000_ARP2085558.jpg

Yeah baby! :beer:

[oldpotatoe]

I recognize your sarcasm, but at some point self preservation has to kick in. There was NO WAY the French could defeat the Germans in WW2.

Hell, if we're going to crack jokes about the French, then the US should be fair game too. With overwhelming military superiority, after more than a decade, we've been unable to defeat a ragtag militia. After a couple thousand deaths, we lost our appetite for war and essentially packed it in. And we crack jokes about the French military?!

First, let's remember that the military is run by civilians. After the US invaded Iraq, the military won the war, conflict, the shooting part in about 6 weeks.

THEN, because of poor post war decisions by those same civilians, the US civilians(not the military), lost the 'peace', trying to nation build and disbanding the military, who should have provided security. The Iraqi army was defeated pretty quickly, the marginalized Sunni population(many of which were Bathists, and excluded from said nation building), became an insurgency and later morphed into ISIL.

Much different than the French military surrendering to the Germans in WW2, for whatever reason.