OT: "Ignorance is not a virtue..."

[fuzzalow]

This is not a political topic or political discussion thread. I left the word "politics" in the quote so as to not adulterate or censor the quote in anyway but that is not intended as to leave the door ajar whatsoever. So please don't.
"In politics and in life, ignorance is not a virtue".
"It's not cool to not know what you're talking about. That's not keeping it real or telling it like it is. That's not challenging political correctness. That's just not knowing what you're talking about".I thought of this quote as there is often a contradictory and counterproductive undercurrent running through modern society and culture between style and substance. Although "style" is too uplifting a word in this context - I'd think it'd be more apropos as the phrase "a conflict between artifice and substance". Sometimes I think people just want what they want and whether it is real or not doesn't seem to matter. Depressing.

Although, in honesty, the word I was thinking of was not the word "artifice" but the word "cool". In the sense that if somebody has to tell everybody they are "cool" then that with certainty means they are not.

[MattTuck]

You may find this interesting.

http://qz.com/340561/the-false-vaccine-debate-shows-were-in-a-golden-age-of-believing-whatever-we-want/

I think some of it may have to do with our evolution. Our brains have done pretty well, in the space of a few thousand generations, to be able to comprehend the massive amount of data that we are faced with. Look back even 100 years, and the amount of information that one had to understand was a fraction of what it is today. Perhaps what we see today is a reflection of how immense and complex our interconnected world has become. One person simply cannot understand it in the same way that someone could 100 years ago. The sheer amount of data that is being produced on a daily basis is HUGE.

So, people give up trying. And just stick to their heuristics and previously held beliefs.

[bicycletricycle]

Ya, I agree

Unfortunately, experts don't always deliver their message very well.

But that's no reason to switch from experts to cultural commentators.

[redir]

Technology is a double edged sword. The Internet and the devices that connect to it are one more step towards humans becoming cyborgs. Seriously, think about it. Ask me any question and I will have an answer for you in seconds not because I know it inside my head but because I CAN know it inside my auxiliary module which is connected to me.

The other edge of the sword of course is the misinformation. So the modern cyborg needs lessons in how to interpret data from the digital side of their being ;)

We are becoming more and more like librarians rather than philosophers of arts and science. The great 'thinker' of the future will be the one who knows how to search, categorize, and interpret information. Rodin's Thinker is really looking down at his phone :D

[Richard]

I think that the "Dunning-Kruger" effect is the driver. The social media/echo chambers of the internet amplifier make ignorance even more difficult to counter.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect

[MattTuck]

Technology is a double edged sword. The Internet and the devices that connect to it are one more step towards humans becoming cyborgs. Seriously, think about it. Ask me any question and I will have an answer for you in seconds not because I know it inside my head but because I CAN know it inside my auxiliary module which is connected to me.

The other edge of the sword of course is the misinformation. So the modern cyborg needs lessons in how to interpret data from the digital side of their being ;)

We are becoming more and more like librarians rather than philosophers of arts and science. The great 'thinker' of the future will be the one who knows how to search, categorize, and interpret information. Rodin's Thinker is really looking down at his phone :D

resistance is futile.

[verticaldoug]

People are just tired of being lied to, so they chose to lie to themselves.

Really quite simple and logical result.

[Bradford]

People are just tired of being lied to, so they chose to lie to themselves.

Really quite simple and logical result.

I don't think that is correct. People love, and have always loved, being lied to when it allows them to continue to believe in something that they really want to be true. What people are tired of is a reality that doesn't fit their fantasies, so they embrace the lies.

You give people too much credit. Read any of the internet, or just read threads on this board about whatever piece of expensive new technology breakthrough, and you can see how much people want to be lied to, how quickly and enthusiastically they accept the promise of things that are most certainly not true.

The reality is that ignorance is easy and the real world is hard. Given the choice, many people just choose ignorance, and do so both willingly and enthusiastically. It was so 2,000 years ago, it is so now, and it will continue to be so for many years to come.

[Seramount]

The reality is that ignorance is easy and the real world is hard. Given the choice, many people just choose ignorance, and do so both willingly and enthusiastically.

agreed.

and it doesn't help that a significant portion of people would lose an IQ contest with a mud fence.

[eddief]

then you will be easily swayed by those with stronger points of view hammered at you, such as those by corporate mass media, religious institutions, billionaires ...or Grant Peterson :).

[rustychisel]

Fuzzy, I love your posts, but with this one I can't - for the life of me - understand why you raised it as a point of debate.

Errrrm, don't some things just register as 'a self evident truth', meaning perhaps that we are all able to take from the statement that which we are equipped to take?

[Tandem Rider]

agreed.

and it doesn't help that a significant portion of people would lose an IQ contest with a mud fence.

Nearly 50% of all people are below median IQ , most of them vote and drive:eek:

[adrien]

We're getting close to facing the tyranny of the majority. How many decades can we diminish intellect in favor of sensationalism, de-fund education, sacrifice journalism for the sake of advertising dollars...etc. until it comes back to haunt us?

The president's comment was spot-on. Unfortunately, the rising of the idiocracy is very real.

On a personal level, the hardest thing is to fight this in parenting. Amazing how much stigma is attached to being intelligent and diligent at school. Sigh.

[Mzilliox]

We're getting close to facing the tyranny of the majority. How many decades can we diminish intellect in favor of sensationalism, de-fund education, sacrifice journalism for the sake of advertising dollars...etc. until it comes back to haunt us?

The president's comment was spot-on. Unfortunately, the rising of the idiocracy is very real.

On a personal level, the hardest thing is to fight this in parenting. Amazing how much stigma is attached to being intelligent and diligent at school. Sigh.

sigh is right, what else can we do? its nutty out there...

[Ray]

I don't think there's any way for this thread NOT to be somewhat political, given who came up with such a highly controversial statement at Rutgers! ;)

All I can say is that I think regardless of the outcome in November, we've already crossed a really dangerous rubicon in our politics in the past couple of months and I don't see getting this genie back in the bottle.

-Ray

[verticaldoug]

Throw in recommendation engines for news, movies and all forms of media on the net, and you get a massively self-reinforcing channel of ignorance.

But I am comfortable only being exposed to the lies already recommended for me.

[Schmed]

I guess I don't get the point. Of course ignorance is not a virtue. Neither is lying, spinning the truth, greed, bullying, excessive hunger for power, etc.

And all politicians have the above qualities. Both sides of the aisle.

[paredown]

A couple of thoughts--I'm a typical product of an aspirational working class family--did not take up a blue collar job, but struggled to get to college, did a degree etc... We were part of a larger trend--all those families who moved "up" when their dads used the GI Bill to get a new start after WW II.

There was some sense of "progress" and a shared sense that a little dose or two of "elite" culture was not just good for you, but was going to make your life better. You watch the Ed Sullivan show now and you are struck by the inclusion of "high" culture--opera, classical music etc, and while you may individually have been listening and praying for the segment to end, it seems like there was a shared notion that this was somehow part of individual betterment and self-improvement. There also was a shared respect for learning--and not just formal. It's hard to imagine a magazine like Reader's Digest having the cultural impact it had in our current age. And it was in part underwritten by the real possibility of economic betterment through the '50s and 60s.

There's lots to be said about how that ideal unraveled--suffice it to say that I think it has for whole segments of the American population.

The second (related) part is for me scarier--more people now seem to be living, thinking and watching their own "culture", often to the exclusion of other viewpoints, so that it is getting easier to condemn, demonize or ignore other voices and other experiences. The notion of "fair and balanced" coverage from news organizations sounds a little quaint today. Verticaldoug's point is well taken--the electronic age has made it easier to segment and target (and appeal to the angels of our worse nature).

That said, the "boobocracy" (or what Mencken called the 'booboisie') has reasons for their rage--income inequality, declining opportunities, declining real wages and a visceral sense that the game is fixed begets populism on the left and on the right, an appeal to conspiracy theories and specious solutions.

[fuzzalow]

..., but with this one I can't - for the life of me - understand why you raised it as a point of debate.

Hey rustychisel, how are things going?

I don't really know why I raised this topic up other than in through an unsettled feeling tinged by a sense of foreboding. Not raised to criticize, villianize or turn divisive in looking at or blaming anyone or even anything.Don Corleone: [to the Heads of the Five Families] How did things ever get so far? I don't know. It was so unfortunate, so unnecessary. We, the world over, each in our own ways have just made a mess of things. And because most of us ostensibly live & participate in democracies, we have no one to blame but ourselves. And although I remain an optimist in the ability of we, as men, women, societies & nations, to solve our problems, I am truly saddened. I fear we have sold ourselves short in recognizing the hard work to do positive things and to move ahead.

Recently, the WSJ published an OpEd authored jointly by Michael Bloomberg and Charles Koch: Why Free Speech Matters on Campus (http://archive.is/XxkBv) (link paywall free) Perhaps strange bedfellows but on a topic that should be politically neutral. How can open thought and free speech be opposed in institutions of higher learning? - And yet there is. Ignorance. Fear. We allow this to happen and we condemn our next generation of leaders, businessmen & businesswomen, families, sons & daughters to a vacuum of hopelessness.

This isn't about politics and but IMO it isn't inflammatory to say that we cannot expect politics to do what we cannot or will not be willing to do ourselves. The simplest way I can view this is as an understanding going forwards that we each had a hand in making things the way they are. And we'll each ought to be prepared to give up something to get out of the ditch we are in.

What's the point of all this? I'm not sure. Other than the first step to fixing a problem is recognizing and accepting that there is a problem. That it's not somebody else's fault. That we stop fighting each other while in a house that's burning down around us. Getting to there makes al the rest possible.

[redir]

The pendulum always swings though fuzzy.

[berserk87]

We're getting close to facing the tyranny of the majority. How many decades can we diminish intellect in favor of sensationalism, de-fund education, sacrifice journalism for the sake of advertising dollars...etc. until it comes back to haunt us?

Unfortunately, the rising of the idiocracy is very real.

You have coalesced everything I had to say about this topic into one, nicely worded post. Fine job.

I was actually going to mention the movie "Idiocracy" but you beat me to the term. That movie looks more like a prophecy as time passes.

[steamer]

“The advancement and diffusion of knowledge is the only guardian of true liberty.”
― James Madison

[rustychisel]

“All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.”

Arthur Schopenhauer

Wouldn't it be delicious if we found out the idiots were right all along and the little things in life really were the most important, that Kanye West really was culturally relevant, and that the Kardashians view of civilization reigned supreme?

[skating perilously wide of political considerations]

[oldpotatoe]

I guess I don't get the point. Of course ignorance is not a virtue. Neither is lying, spinning the truth, greed, bullying, excessive hunger for power, etc.

And all politicians have the above qualities. Both sides of the aisle.

Some more than others, even some entertainers and 'business' people.

[fuzzalow]

Hey, what can I tell ya?

People will believe what they want to believe at the level that they can believe it. I don't fault them for that. In fairness to them, their institutions have let them down and anyone that can see, understand and recognize its happening is in some manner an accomplice to what has occurred.

There is no judgement made to capitalism, political nobless oblige or morality here, just the sad reality that the world has gotten too complex for many to comprehend and keep up with. And while being distracted, less than noble forces ingratiated and took hold of certain parts of society.

Pope Francis said that unfettered capitalism is rapacious. As a capitalist, I agree with that. I know how the sausage is made. Not every capitalist feels a duty to contribute to that rapaciousness. The ignorant masses may fall for more empty promises but it will not change a thing - the masses may throttle the chaos but they will never control the wealth.

[soulspinner]

i don't think there's any way for this thread not to be somewhat political, given who came up with such a highly controversial statement at rutgers! ;)

all i can say is that i think regardless of the outcome in november, we've already crossed a really dangerous rubicon in our politics in the past couple of months and i don't see getting this genie back in the bottle.

-ray

+1....

[weisan]

fuzz pal, thanks for initiating the discussion and I can only stick with what I know or I think I know.

I think at different times the kind of ignorance and fear manifested themselves in different ways, no better or worse, it's the same human condition - living in a state of brokenness, like never waking up from a perpetual nightmare. Every now and then, we see light sparks or bright spots, which remind us of a distant past, and what was once possible. We call that hope. But they are in short supply, mostly drowned out by the noise and darkness. Those trying hard to rectify the situation or make a positive change is faced with an uphill battle with little chance of success. And it looks that way if we are honest enough with ourselves because the opposite team has the homeground advantage and is aided by gravity - it's so much easier to tear down than to build up. The danger of all of these imploding into a fireball is very real and imminent, it's not doomsday scary tactic by any stretch of the imagination.
But then again, the jury is still out there, until the last bit gets snuffed out completely and we are left with nothing, nobody knows for sure who gets the last laugh.

Nail biting, exciting stuff hah?

Who says we need to watch the latest superhero movie to get the same high? :D

[Tickdoc]

At my work we have tvs on the wall. It helps so patients can be distracted. I let them choose what to watch.

We default to hgtv, as it is somewhat neutral, mindless, vanity.

The other day this lady picks a kardashian tv show. The kardashians? Housewives of sometown? She was transfixed.

We're all going to hell.

All I could stammer to think was this rather old movie is rather nailing it:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/917r7Tukf6L._SL1500_.jpg

[sg8357]

I was actually going to mention the movie "Idiocracy" but you beat me to the term. That movie looks more like a prophecy as time passes.

Look for the movie "A Face in the Crowd", see if you recognize anyone in it.

Followed by "All the Kings Men", then cheer up a bit with
"Meet John Doe"

Every Man a King

[pbarry]

How are people are staying engaged intellectually in our digital environment? I don't read books nearly as much as in the past. Warming to the Kindle tho and have been considering a few periodical subscriptions because all the snippets read on the same websites are but a fraction of the information I formerly read in hard copy. That's surely a sign of my age and preferred presentation..

There's a good bs detector in my house, so I don't feel subjected to or the need to filter bad "entertainment". Just wondering what others do to adjust and stay informed and intellectually stimulated with all the bread and circus?

[weisan]

wondering what others do to adjust and stay informed and intellectually stimulated with all the bread and circus?

I go biking.

[pbarry]

I go biking.

Says our Yoda..

[paredown]

...Just wondering what others do to adjust and stay informed and intellectually stimulated with all the bread and circus?

I'm a bit of a Luddite--I don't watch TV news, or any of the bloviator shows--I read the New York Times (and the New Yorker for longer pieces). Occasional forays into the WSJ--used to do the Economist as well, but that got old pretty fast (and I think the writing got worse).

I still manage to read some longer non-fiction, often recommendations from friends whose taste I trust. If a topic catches my fancy, I will read fairly widely on the internet to develop a sense of the debate--and sometimes that will lead me back to a book or books on a topic.

I had a few dark years though when the effects of Lyme made it hard for me to concentrate, but it seems like the 'little gray cells' are starting to function better lately. I recently got added to a friend's email distribution list, and lately that has led me to read some interesting stuff...

And yes, ride your bike. Does wonders for clearing your head and restoring your soul.

[fiamme red]

Look for the movie "A Face in the Crowd", see if you recognize anyone in it.Lonesome Rhodes: "Those morons out there? Shucks, I could take chicken fertilizer and sell it to them as caviar. I could make them eat dog food and think it was steak. Sure, I got 'em like this... You know what the public's like? A cage of guinea pigs. Good night you stupid idiots. Good night, you miserable slobs. They're a lot of trained seals. I toss them a dead fish and they'll flap their flippers."

[verticaldoug]

and as we become idiots, we need to be watched more by governments.

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/05/find-face/483962/

With google glass coupled with find-face, you can just walk down the street looking at people an knowing who they are. Not only who they are, but what they are.

The OpenWPM research from Princeton studying online tracking is also pretty enlightening. As we all know, the web never forgets, but it may even be worse than that it may start reminding you....

[fuzzalow]

The pendulum always swings though fuzzy.

The pendulum does swing. And life goes on. This thread is not intended as alarmist. But I'd say that although the pendulum does swing, the overall positioning of its pivot point, and therefore the sweep of its arc, has moved both farther left or right for either of the two main political parties in the USA. There are many unhappy people out there. They have every reason to feel that way and they are looking for answers and I don't think that they are neccesarily ignorant. But they are tired, insecure of their future and downwardly pressured economically - they don't wanna hear again & again how it is a complex problem in a complex world.

But it is a complex problem in a complex world. It won't get fixed by any one president over one or two election cycles. And falling for simple answers won't work because the obligation on the voter is not to pay attention only every 4 years during a presidential election but every year at the local level of their communities, state and federal representatives. Such is the obligation and duty demanded of its citizenry in a democracy.

Skeptics may say it is all rigged and BS, but that's not a reason, it is a excuse. It is the system we have. We are a great nation. We must believe we can & will make it work. That we will work the problem until we solve the problem. To do otherwise is to have given up on ourselves. That is what the special interests want because when the voter leaves the democracy then they get to speak for you as if you are still in the room. Voting blocs like the NRA never miss an election.

How are people are staying engaged intellectually in our digital environment?

Simple. Read a newspaper everyday. All of them can be accessed by the web from anywhere. Form your own opinion. And then use that knowledge to weigh the tradeoffs that are part of every political platform and election process. And then vote your conscience.

and as we become idiots, we need to be watched more by governments.

I don't fear my own government although my duty as a citizen is to be wary.

Face it, unless you partake in criminal activity or radicalization in some movement or cause, the government has neither the time, resources or the money to be watching you. Don't flatter yourself, you ain't important enough. C'mon now really, whaddaya got that the government wants?

There will always exist people that want to steal from you if you have something they want. It is all about the money. The tech savvy criminal, the identity theft criminals - worry about them because that is real.

[verticaldoug]

I don't fear my own government although my duty as a citizen is to be wary.

Face it, unless you partake in criminal activity or radicalization in some movement or cause, the government has neither the time, resources or the money to be watching you. Don't flatter yourself, you ain't important enough. C'mon now really, whaddaya got that the government wants?

There will always exist people that want to steal from you if you have something they want. It is all about the money. The tech savvy criminal, the identity theft criminals - worry about them because that is real.

You should not just think of it in terms of the current U.S. Gov. The Chinese, Russians, Turks can all collect data and go after targets. You wrote a satirical poem about Erdogan and posted it to Facebook? You can go to jail for that. A women went to jail for 'insulting' Erdogan on Facebook, then a journalist was sent to jail for 'liking' it on Facebook. Why not go to Thailand and write a witty jingle about the King. See if you can stay out of jail for that? The internet is not just about the US and US rule of law.

[Schmed]

Simple. Read a newspaper everyday. All of them can be accessed by the web from anywhere. Form your own opinion. And then use that knowledge to weigh the tradeoffs that are part of every political platform and election process. And then vote your conscience.



We must also be wary enough to know our newspapers have an agenda written by people motivated by their own politics.

Don't flatter yourself, you ain't important enough. C'mon now really, whaddaya got that the government wants?

The government certainly wants my vote and is willing to pay a LOT of money to get it. (collectively, of course). Why on earth would candidates spend billions to get elected? Power. Money.


There will always exist people that want to steal from you if you have something they want. It is all about the money.

You are forgetting POWER. People (politicians) want power. Desperately.

As Frank Underwood once said "Such a waste of talent. He chose money over power. In this town, a mistake nearly everyone makes. Money is the Mc-mansion in Sarasota that starts falling apart after 10 years. Power is the old stone building that stands for centuries. I cannot respect someone who doesn't see the difference."

[fuzzalow]

You should not just think of it in terms of the current U.S. Gov. The Chinese, Russians, Turks can all collect data and go after targets. You wrote a satirical poem about Erdogan and posted it to Facebook? You can go to jail for that. A women went to jail for 'insulting' Erdogan on Facebook, then a journalist was sent to jail for 'liking' it on Facebook. Why not go to Thailand and write a witty jingle about the King. See if you can stay out of jail for that? The internet is not just about the US and US rule of law.

OK. But this thread isn't about the ills of the world and the means of combating its oppressions. Of course I am cognizant of what you refer to. The political players you are making example of here are anything but ignorant or unawares as to the exigencies of their own political realities.

But that is not the challenge or the political structure under what is experienced in the USA and even the Eurozone/UK. Even OZ for our friends down under. The threat is not political survival but participation of an informed electorate.

[Ray]

The pendulum does swing. And life goes on. This thread is not intended as alarmist. But I'd say that although the pendulum does swing, the overall positioning of its pivot point, and therefore the sweep of its arc, has moved both farther left or right for either of the two main political parties in the USA. There are many unhappy people out there. They have every reason to feel that way and they are looking for answers and I don't think that they are neccesarily ignorant. But they are tired, insecure of their future and downwardly pressured economically - they don't wanna hear again & again how it is a complex problem in a complex world.

But it is a complex problem in a complex world. It won't get fixed by any one president over one or two election cycles. And falling for simple answers won't work because the obligation on the voter is not to pay attention only every 4 years during a presidential election but every year at the local level of their communities, state and federal representatives. Such is the obligation and duty demanded of its citizenry in a democracy.
I think this is the nut of it. The problems are extremely complex - if they were easy to solve they'd have been solved a long time ago, as many lesser problems have been.

And, realistically, they may never be "solved" in the sense of bringing back the relatively wide-spread prosperity we've had mostly since WWII, when we were the victors to whom went the spoils. We've lived really well for a really long time, but the rest of the world is catching up. It's not a zero sum game, but it's not unlimited wealth for all either and as competing labor is willing to work far cheaper than we are, gravity flows to them. And closing ourselves off won't work - for every job we save prices will go up commensurately so we'd just be bitching about high prices instead of low pay.

People who grew up with higher expectations are understandably frustrated but those expectations were not an entitlement. My generation had the best of everything and never had to think about the implications of our lifestyles. Our kids grew up with our expectations into a world with a much different reality and not particularly liking it. And the extremes of both sides are exploiting that frustration, offering easy answers (that they can't/don't spell out) that will almost certainly make the problems worse rather than better. Not to mention the highly dangerous scapegoating us vs them crap that NEVER leads to anything good. As is the case with many complex public policy issues, the problems can be managed, not solved. But if you tear the whole thing down, I guarantee it'll be worse, not better. But you can't sell that - as long as there are problems politicians will exploit the fears they produce and when they get bad, the solutions tend to get worse...

-Ray

[goonster]

Face it, unless you partake in criminal activity or radicalization in some movement or cause, the government has neither the time, resources or the money to be watching you. Don't flatter yourself, you ain't important enough. C'mon now really, whaddaya got that the government wants?

Ah, the good old days . . . when the FBI needed a court order to wire into the analog telephone lines of dangerous, radical criminals like Martin Luther King Jr.

The gov't doesn't know who is important until after the fact, so they watch everyone (e.g. XKEYSCORE, PRISM), and then aim the gaze backward when suspicion (valid, or not) befalls you or someone in your wider social circle.

"Jemand musste Josef K. verleumdet haben . . ."

[FlashUNC]

Face it, unless you partake in criminal activity or radicalization in some movement or cause, the government has neither the time, resources or the money to be watching you. Don't flatter yourself, you ain't important enough. C'mon now really, whaddaya got that the government wants?



Oh I dunno, you can do a lot with $52 billion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XKeyscore
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUSCULAR_(surveillance_program)

And as Snowden's leaks have pointed out, the programs essentially hoover up everything. Innocent or not, emails, texts and other correspondence are sitting in massive databases out at Fort Meade.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d2/US_intelligence_budget.png

[verticaldoug]

OK. But this thread isn't about the ills of the world and the means of combating its oppressions. Of course I am cognizant of what you refer to. The political players you are making example of here are anything but ignorant or unawares as to the exigencies of their own political realities.

But that is not the challenge or the political structure under what is experienced in the USA and even the Eurozone/UK. Even OZ for our friends down under. The threat is not political survival but participation of an informed electorate.

Facebook, google, amazon, hollywood, are all global media. The ills may differ in degree, but are strikingly similar in many countries.

Participation of an informed electorate vs manufacturing consent??
It may just be one and the same, and the ship may have already sailed.

[livingminimal]

I think we sometimes forget that our culture, that is American "Exceptionalism," Rugged Individualism, etc is very young. It was also an experiment. It's also incredibly naïve. I think it is ok to discuss it as on the precipice of failing, too. At the very least, a very heavy restructuring over the next 50 years.

Other developed nations figured out long ago that the road to prosperity didn't lead through the individual, but through the community. Unfettered and embraced, competition for everything and anything ultimately leads to impatience, which leads to shortcuts, which leads to basically honing in on single-mindedness to advance individual goals. Selfishness is fertile ground for ignorance, because empathy and compassion are a lot more challenging and require an expanded world view. Who has time for that when [insert media/political narrative around fear here] is happening? I have a way of life to protect or preserve or make great again, or something.

When you realize your choices and behavior affect those around you, that's power. That's also a catalyst to combat ignorance. If you choose not to do that, then whatever you're trying to protect, preserve, or make great again or whatever, is truly doomed.

A revolution against all of this is coming. America is due for it.

[Ti Designs]

Technology is a double edged sword. The Internet and the devices that connect to it are one more step towards humans becoming cyborgs. Seriously, think about it. Ask me any question and I will have an answer for you in seconds not because I know it inside my head but because I CAN know it inside my auxiliary module which is connected to it.

Your trust in the information that you pull off the internet scares me. The fact that you will then take that information and store it in your brain scares me even more, because you have complete confidence and trust in what's stored between your ears. Dunning/Kruger's findings are based on people never questioning what they know or if they are competent at the task at hand.

Since I started coaching I've watched the learning process fail in so many cases and so many ways. To be honest, I don't understand why the learning process itself isn't something we teach in school (one would think that it would make the rest of their education work better). The problem is in order to apply the learning process, you have to start with the assumption that you don't know how to do something...

[CampyorBust]

Interesting thread. Politics or not what is going on in the world now is the build up to a horror show we have seen way too may times. The masses appear to be passive willing participants in a system that has not their best interests at heart (and never did). Yet again they are miserably failing the test and task at hand, such passive acquiescence truly does add credence to the phrase know your history or you are doomed to repeat it. So is it doom and gloom that awaits us around the bend? Many are saying just that. I see this too but hope for better, I think we are worthy of it.

Moreover since we all realize how truly screwed we are, perhaps this is precisely the catalyzing moment we need to get our proverbial **** together? Looks like a great opportunity to me!

Tell ya what I will make the first concessions, I already eat veggies but I’ll drive a Prius, actually no I wont but give me that Tesla (it’s the 0-60 that matters to me), and feel free to take care of healthcare or better yet lack there of... I have but I have a few demands …I don’t want to see any bearded ladies on TV, I get to say whatever stupid crap I want too and please please let me keep my super soaker (it comforts me at night). Deal?

Looking at the political landscape or more accurately abyss we are faced with again (just deeper this time), a doom and gloom attitude is understandable. Look at the hate on both sides, that vile stuff is contagious! The real question is what to do now that we are faced with such an unpleasant predicament. The world is what we make of it and this is precisely the time to rise up to the occasion, when faced with conflict give not into the temptation of fear and aggression instead seek out a compromise and persist in such a fashion until said compromise is achieved. Leap not into the abyss of degradation instead learn to levitate through revelation. Oh snap!

I don’t know how many trekkies we have here but I suspect there are a few lurking around. Remember that episode the Neutral zone? Where people from the 20th -21st century are wakened from cryogenic stasis and we are witness to the faults of current our profit at all costs mindset… (https://youtu.be/XQQYbKT_rMg)

While I am on the whole Star Trek thing, some wisdom from Data… (https://youtu.be/a9GftrRJXkE). Are we Ferengi?

I detest the use of force, it is primitive and always does more damage than good. We seem to be at a fork in the road of our development, a beginning of a transitory period if you will. On one hand we regress, forget the lessons our ancestors had to learn and slip back into fear and aggression. On the other hand we take a chill pill, realize the effectiveness of the divide and conquer tactic being used against us yet again and try something new for a change.

To really go off the deep end I offer the thoughts of Jacque Fresco… (https://youtu.be/w1CVyUlFkyI). Criticisms can be made but on the whole I think this little elf man is on to something. A critical area of discussion he does not touch upon is how to make the transition as painless as possible. The nihilist in me says it’s not possible, then again we have something called a brain which has truly marvelous abilities and untapped potential. We just need take our dunce caps off and put on our thinking caps channel universal wisdom and persevere. Simplistic patchouli stuff I know, but real solutions often are, just dont forget the patchouli, its a key ingredient :D.

Hey how bout a Fresca? Ahh? (https://youtu.be/XDFCL5Oiqk0)
No thanks I will drink from that natural spring over there...

Someone said we are going to hell? I think we are there already. Hey get Sean Kelly to figure out this puzzle…

http://i1242.photobucket.com/albums/gg529/wobhca/wobh.png

[adamhell]

http://www.financialsense.com/sites/default/files/users/u3124/images/2015/1015/03-INVISIBLE3.JPG

[rugbysecondrow]

It wasn't that long ago that if it didn't try to feed, **** or kill you, would you even care about it? We haven't changed that much.

When have we ever had an informed electorate? Maybe I am missing the point, but Americans, people, have always been preoccupied with their localized troubles and lacked the capacity or the will to know much outside their own sphere. The whole electoral college system was designed around this ignorance/ambivalence.

Ignorance is perfectly acceptable IMO. I am purposefully ignorance because I can't possibly be knowledgeable, so I choose not to even try on a great many topics. The advent of the internet has made so much information available that one has to turn to spigot off, you have no choice. 20 years ago, our information was funneled through the eyes of a local newspaper and Tom Brokaw...6 minutes on the world...that was it. 50 years before that, it was just the newspaper and possibly the radio. 50 years before that, maybe the newspaper or just word of mouth.