Salsa Fargo for singletrack (and Jeff Jones Plus design)

[Erik_A]

For those of us who love doing singletrack on the Fargo (and wonder why it works so well), I would recommend checking out Jeff Jones talking about his new Jones Plus bike design:

http://blog.jonesbikes.com/jones-plus-this-is-it/

Longer chainstays, shorter reach and lower BB drop than a typical MTB geometry (plus a rigid fork). He actually has a lower BB than the Fargo's 70mm:
Jones Plus BB drop: EBB in top position – 76mm drop, EBB in bottom position – 88mm drop.

Great video with Jeff's design philosophy (while you watch him do a build):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytCndGtdZpg

This has caused me to want to try running a Jones Loop 710 bar on my Fargo (but with a 130mm stem).

[benb]

What stem do you run right now? Jeff would probably tell you not to run the 130mm stem unless the Fargo has a really really short top tube for you.

I tried a Jones bar in 2014 and it didn't work for me at all.. I had a 100mm or 110mm stem on the bike I tried it on. If i try it again I'm going to put something like a 50mm stem on with the Jones bar and probably move the saddle back 1cm.

[Erik_A]

I am 6'-4" (with a long upper/ body torso). On the XL 2015 Fargo, I run a 120mm 0 deg. stem with the Woodchipper bars; as well as a setback Thomson seatpost (and it feels really short for me). I think that the combo of the tall stack on the bike and the 60cm ETT make it feel short. I keep wishing that I can sit further back on the seat (which is as far back as it goes) when riding in the hoods on the Woodchipper).

I know that with MTB's and wide bars, the wider you hands are on the bars the shorter your stem should be; so I am hoping that when I test out the Jones loop 710 bars with a 130mm Thomson stem that allows me to have a similar ride position as Jeff Jones describes for his Jones Plus.

From Jeff's blog:"The Jones Plus 24″ has less reach than a small Surly ECR (398mm) and the 25″ has less reach then the medium (416mm)."

The Jones Plus 25" has a 415cm reach + 110mm stem = 525mm
The Salsa Fargo has a 391mm reach = 130mm stem = 521mm

http://surlybikes.com/bikes/ecr/geometry
http://salsacycles.com/bikes/fargo/2016_fargo_x9
http://www.jonesbikes.com/jones-plus-xt-bb7-build-complete-bicycle-pre-order/



What stem do you run right now? Jeff would probably tell you not to run the 130mm stem unless the Fargo has a really really short top tube for you.

I tried a Jones bar in 2014 and it didn't work for me at all.. I had a 100mm or 110mm stem on the bike I tried it on. If i try it again I'm going to put something like a 50mm stem on with the Jones bar and probably move the saddle back 1cm.

[benb]

It's easy to swap stems I would just be prepared to use a shorter stem with the Jones bar, it is not like using a flat bar at all, you setup pretty differently with his bar and he wants you to get behind the BB quite a bit with your saddle position.

The forward positions on the Jones bar are more like being on the hoods on a drop bar, they are much more forward than they look. The place you put the controls on the bar is almost as far out as the hoods would be on a drop bar. When I put the Jones bar on my bike with a similar stem the forward positions on the bar were too far forward and pulled me off balance putting lots of weight on my hands.

I would want a bike with a shallow STA to use a Jones bar personally, the Fargo looks like it would be good for me with a drop bar but maybe not with the jones due to the 73 degree STA on the size I'd pick. I put the saddle nose 8.5cm back from the BB with a drop bar, with the Jones position I would be moving it back to 9.5-10.0cm of setback, going down 20-30mm at least on stem length, and then raising the bars to be level with the seat. I know that works on my Space Horse with a 72.5 STA + 2cm setback post.

Even if you don't set it up right his bar is amazing offroad compared to a drop bar. I had it setup with too much reach on my bike, it wasn't good on the road, but as soon as I went to the aft position on the bar offroad it was like magic.

It's an expensive bar, I sold mine here before really figuring out how it worked.. I may try it again, dumb mistake. If I do it again the saddle is going way back, reach is getting shortened, bars are being raised as much as I can (level if I can get it) and I'm going to put MTB brakes and levers on the bike.

[rcnute]

Man, I love my Jones (regular 29er) but hated the Fargo (with or without Jones bar, 1st gen). I couldn't figure out why.

Ryan

[Erik_A]

I am really surprised at the short reach on the XL Fargo. The Salsa Fargo has a 391mm reach. For a tall guy, this feels really short when you set this up as a cyclocross/ gravel grinder bike with drop bars. I didn't really understand "reach" until after I bought the Fargo.

The Fargo seems most comfortable doing singletrack trails (for me). I thought that it was just because, I am old (mid-40's); and more closely resembled the rigid steel mountain bikes that I rode during college in the early 1990's. But after watching and reading Jeff Jones talk about the Jones Plus the Fargo geometry makes more sense. I still wish that it had more reach though!

My solution is to make the Fargo a dedicated MTB with Jones Loop bars; and then build up a 60 cm Soma Wolverine (with 403mm reach) for my drop bar, gravel grinding setup. http://www.somafab.com/archives/product/wolverine

[p nut]

I am really surprised at the short reach on the XL Fargo. The Salsa Fargo has a 391mm reach. For a tall guy, this feels really short when you set this up as a cyclocross/ gravel grinder bike with drop bars. I didn't really understand "reach" until after I bought the Fargo.

The Fargo seems most comfortable doing singletrack trails (for me). I thought that it was just because, I am old (mid-40's); and more closely resembled the rigid steel mountain bikes that I rode during college in the early 1990's. But after watching and reading Jeff Jones talk about the Jones Plus the Fargo geometry makes more sense. I still wish that it had more reach though!

My solution is to make the Fargo a dedicated MTB with Jones Loop bars; and then build up a 60 cm Soma Wolverine (with 403mm reach) for my drop bar, gravel grinding setup. http://www.somafab.com/archives/product/wolverine

If you're having issues with reach, wouldn't a Jones bar make it worse?

I've got both a Fargo and Jones (not the Plus). Drastically different bikes. Fargo is (relatively) fast and stable. It's awesome on the road and dirt roads. But (For me) does not handle chunky singletrack that well, even set up with 2.4" Ardent. Jones is more playful. Short wheelbase, rear weight bias, slack angles, and burlier tires. Tackled the Porcupine Rim Trail on it, which I wouldn't dream of taking the Fargo on.

Both are fun bikes but built for different purposes.