e-Bikes...thoughts?

[BobbyJones]

Mechanical Doping and Food Delivery jokes aside, what're your thoughts on e-Bikes?

Good? Bad? Downright Silly?

[bicycletricycle]

Well, I commute on a bike very day.

When I get old I may want one of those electric bikes.

Better than. A f######g car

They gotta make sure to keep the speed down on those things on the bike paths.

[rkhatibi]

I've been considering building one as a fun project. Used hardtail MTB donor bike, battery, and a 750w mid engine kit. Looked like it could be done for less than $2k all in if based on the Bafang BBS02 (http://lunacycle.com/motors/mid-drive-kits/bafang-mid-drive-and-parts/bafang-bbs02-750w-mid-drive-with-upgraded-3077-controller/).

Example
https://www.electricbike.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/BBS02aa.png

[moose8]

They're pretty awesome if you want to get somewhere without breaking a sweat - definitely more of a utilitarian type thing. For fun for me a regular bike is better. But an e-bike makes you feel like a hero going uphill.

[p nut]

I'm fine with them, but--Keep them on the road. Don't want them on MUP/bike paths or MTB trails.

[carpediemracing]

To combine the worst of the comments/requests above...

We live at the top of a kind of a steep hill, 1/2 mile long. It's an artery road - very busy because it's one of a few ways to get over this ridge. Virtually no shoulder.

We live 1 mile away from daycare. Missus works 3 something miles away. Small grocery store 1.5 miles away, large one about 4 miles away. All of these sit along the MUP. If we could ride along the MUP I think I'd be on bikes much more.

However, with the 1/2 mile hill on the somewhat unsafe road...

If they built the proposed MUP from the top of the ridge down to the MUP system that runs the height of CT and into MA, I'd get an e-bike for doing errands. With our trailer (and a cooler in the trailer?) I could even do big grocery runs, meaning carrying 30 or 40 lbs of stuff, refrigerated or frozen stuff.

I rode an e-bike a while back, at the end of an Interbike outdoor demo day. THe battery went dead when I got to the "turnaround" portion of the ride, which happened to be at the bottom of a long hill (to Lake Mead). I had to climb back up on the dead e-bike, which had to have weighed 60 or 70 lbs, had soft suspension, 26x2" tires, etc. It was... illuminating, so to speak. A spare battery is a must have.

[ofcounsel]

I know this is marketing hype, but looking at this video makes me want to try Specialized Levo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDNxNnhM6Nk

[protorio]

I think motorized bicycles (the electric kind, preferably) are a good choice for some people. Its not my choice now, but it may be when I'm old.

[false_Aest]

The more people on bikes, the better.

I certainly prefer e-bikes to the cruisers I see what 2 stroke engines attached.

[dancinkozmo]

e-bikes are stupid
im going to go yell at a cloud now

http://gotomarketguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/hy4gugp3ho0q1uirzx9945rr9ofx1taj.png

[KidWok]

I bought a Stromer ST1 limited edition a month ago and have been using it as my main transportation during the work week. Between parking and gas, it probably saves me $250/mo. It's faster than using a car in Seattle. I am a commercial real estate broker and need to show up at meetings not soaked in sweat...this does the trick. I have a $#!+-eating grin every time I get on it because it flies along at 20-25 mph. I still ride my road bikes just as much as I did before because this thing replaced my car, not my bike.

Tai

[biker72]

I work at a bike shop where management keeps trying to put me on a e-bike.
I'm almost 78 which certainly classifies as old but I'm really not interested in any "pedal assist". I do this for health, exercise and commute to work most days.

Even if I get to the point where 10 mph is my top speed I'll be doing it on my own with no assistance. I ride solo most of the time so I can decide on the route and speed.

Problem is that these bikes aren't selling as well as the manufacturers would like. Europe is another story.

[christian]

Fine with them for commuters, but if I see a Specialized Levo on my local mtb trails, you won't find the bike or the body.

[oldpotatoe]

I work at a bike shop where management keeps trying to put me on a e-bike.
I'm almost 78 which certainly classifies as old but I'm really not interested in any "pedal assist". I do this for health, exercise and commute to work most days.

Even if I get to the point where 10 mph is my top speed I'll be doing it on my own with no assistance. I ride solo most of the time so I can decide on the route and speed.

Problem is that these bikes aren't selling as well as the manufacturers would like. Europe is another story.

Cheap gas still.

[rzthomas]

They look super fun. If I ride to work, it's a one-way trip of 26 miles with no showers available at the office. Could be nice to ride in without busting a sweat and then push it hard on the way home.

But on the singletrack? Eh.

[pasadena]

I've been considering building one as a fun project. Used hardtail MTB donor bike, battery, and a 750w mid engine kit. Looked like it could be done for less than $2k all in if based on the Bafang BBS02 (http://lunacycle.com/motors/mid-drive-kits/bafang-mid-drive-and-parts/bafang-bbs02-750w-mid-drive-with-upgraded-3077-controller/).

Example
https://www.electricbike.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/BBS02aa.png

That's almost exactly what I have. works great
It's not as seamless as a Bosch motor but it's also a lot cheaper and more powerful.

Ebikes sell huge here in the USA as well as Europe. Stromer and other brands can't keep them in stock.

They are really fun and practical. I tend to think of them more as functional rather than recreation-if that makes sense, but work well for everything.

Don't think of it as a replacement for a bike, but a new type of bike.

[ofcounsel]

Fine with them for commuters, but if I see a Specialized Levo on my local mtb trails, you won't find the bike or the body.

I'll make sure to pack the heat ;-)

[malcolm]

Serious question. Why not on the mtn bike trails?? I don't want one at least not yet. The reason I ask is last time I was in Park City I saw two on racks but they were clearly mtn bikes with motorized bottom brackets. Is it the same reason hikers and mtn bikers don't like motorcycles on the trails, they tend to cause significant damage??

[christian]

Yes. The Levo makes more than 3x the power of a rider on a standard bicycle. That's going to cause significant wear on the trail and is inappropriate. I ride a motorcycle. I like motorcycles. I don't ride my motorcycles on hiking trails...

[allan6344]

As a hiker I don't distinguish between e-mtb or mtb. I use a Specialized Turbo for my 37 mile RT commute and now it's fun to ride the road bike on weekend group rides again. I was getting too worn down during the week and it was taking too much time. It's like taking 20 years off and I'm still getting exercise. I am not a big fan of the throttle only, high power, home builds which is what most people picture.

[malcolm]

Yes. The Levo makes more than 3x the power of a rider on a standard bicycle. That's going to cause significant wear on the trail and is inappropriate. I ride a motorcycle. I like motorcycles. I don't ride my motorcycles on hiking trails...

I hear you and that's what I thought. I grew up on motorcycles and started racing motocross and cross country/enduro after that and as I got older just riding. In the past 5 years or so I've sold off all my motorcycles dirt and road. Still love them but just don't fit with what I do these days.

By the time I left dirt bikes behind I was riding mostly small/low knobbie trials type tires and for all except mud they were actually quite good and I'm not sure they weren't better on rocky hard pack. Motorcycles certainly damage the trails. Mountain bicycles I think much less so. Unless you have abundant loamy top soil I've not seen a lot of difference between hiking and mtn bikes. hard pack once there is a trail more damage comes from wash at least in my experience. Multi use is a thorny problem.

[christian]

As a hiker I don't distinguish between e-mtb or mtb.Really? I'm a reasonably fit mountain biker. Let's say I can put down 220w on a steady climb, maybe 500 for 30 seconds to get over a feature. On an e-mtb, I'd be able to put down a steady 750w or over a 1,000 watts for brief periods. That's at least as much as an CRF50F or similar kids motorcycle. So 20-25 mph uphill rather than 8. I think you'd notice that as a hiker; certainly as an equestrian. To me, it also blurs the definition of what we allow on trails. I don't want full-power e-motorcycles like an 85 mph Zero FX on my MTB trails, for instance.

I do think your commute seems like an ideal use for one.

[pasadena]

slippery slope of logic

do we have a mtb weight limit for the trails and ban pro riders that regularly double the wattage of most mtb riders? Do we ban people above a certain weight?

e-bikes are not motorcycles. It's an easy myth that people can point to very few, very powerful niche e-bikes.

e bikes are mostly pedal assist. Even with throttle, I honestly don't see any more trail damage.

I can argue less trail damage but it's pointless to argue on the internet.

Besides the amount of use, what causes trail damage is poor riding skills and ignorance on how to use trails.
Ignorant trail ettiquete causes far more damage than anything else. Irregardless if it's a 19lb XC bike or a 50lb DH bike, or a 250lb rider or a 90lb rider.

What this argument does do is simply give more power to close down trails to all bikes, based on self-fulfilling myth.

[christian]

It's really not slippery. One has an electric motor. One doesn't.

[oldpotatoe]

slippery slope of logic

do we have a mtb weight limit for the trails and ban pro riders that regularly double the wattage of most mtb riders? Do we ban people above a certain weight?

e-bikes are not motorcycles. It's an easy myth that people can point to very few, very powerful niche e-bikes.

e bikes are mostly pedal assist. Even with throttle, I honestly don't see any more trail damage.

I can argue less trail damage but it's pointless to argue on the internet.

Besides the amount of use, what causes trail damage is poor riding skills and ignorance on how to use trails.
Ignorant trail ettiquete causes far more damage than anything else. Irregardless if it's a 19lb XC bike or a 50lb DH bike, or a 250lb rider or a 90lb rider.

What this argument does do is simply give more power to close down trails to all bikes, based on self-fulfilling myth.

Irregardless isn't a word. :D

Good for commuting, getting there faster without being all sweaty. Same as a scooter. Just cuz it has 'pedals' doesn't mean it isn't a scooter.

[Jad]

The useful distinction that some are making about e-bikes is that (most?) people use them for practical purposes: to get somewhere faster with less effort than on a solely pedal powered bike. The idea that they're scooters makes sense in that case. In any event, an e-bike is a type of bike, scootery as they may be.

I'll take people on a variety of bike over alternatives any day. "One Less Car" can still hold with e-bikes, so I appreciate their place in the wheeled world. If an e-bike gets someone pedaling--with assistance or without--it's probably a good thing these days.

[Ralph]

My wife has had serious surgery on both knees (RA). She cannot climb, and her distance is limited to about 10-12 miles on a mostly level bike trail. She averages about 8-10 MPH. So she is kinda limited in what she can do. I usually ride with her on the trails 2 days a week, and with my normal riding buddies on the roads 3 days.

We're thinking about an E Bike for her, or perhaps a rear E wheel for assist. I think she is the perfect candidate for one. It would allow her to ride on longer rides...at a tad faster pace......perhaps still on the trails.....and both of us would enjoy the ride more.

[p nut]

...e-bikes are not motorcycles...

I think by definition, they are motorcycles:

M-W dictionary--
: a vehicle with two wheels that is powered by a motor and that can carry one or two people

[fogrider]

My wife has had serious surgery on both knees (RA). She cannot climb, and her distance is limited to about 10-12 miles on a mostly level bike trail. She averages about 8-10 MPH. So she is kinda limited in what she can do. I usually ride with her on the trails 2 days a week, and with my normal riding buddies on the roads 3 days.

We're thinking about an E Bike for her, or perhaps a rear E wheel for assist. I think she is the perfect candidate for one. It would allow her to ride on longer rides...at a tad faster pace......perhaps still on the trails.....and both of us would enjoy the ride more.

you might even consider a tandem!

[SuperColnago]

Need e assist on my Corsa Extra!😂

[KidWok]

you might even consider a tandem!

Most tandem riders I know don't go uphill that fast, especially if one rider is less-abled. Would make it harder on both of them probably. I remember riding tandem with my ex when she was just out of shape...going uphill was much harder.

Yes...I think an e-bike would definitely be a good option for someone who is less-abled. On something like my Stromer, they could more than keep up while getting a good workout. May be a nice transition towards riding a standard bicycle if they were so inclined.

Tai

[Mark McM]

I think by definition, they are motorcycles:

M-W dictionary--
: a vehicle with two wheels that is powered by a motor and that can carry one or two people

It depends on the jurisdiction. In many states, there are distinctions between motorcycles and mopeds/motorized bicycles, and sometimes a separate category for motor scooters. In some states, e-bikes are lumped in with mopeds, and in other states e-bikes and mopeds are separate entities.

Here in Massachusetts, an e-bike might either be categorized as a motorized bicycle (moped) or as a low-speed electric bicycle, depending on power and top speed. If the power is less than 750 Watts and the top speed is less than 20 mph, then it will be considered an e-bike, and subject to regular bicycle rules. If faster or more powerful, it will be considered a motorized bicycle (moped), and it must be registered, can not be operated by anyone under 16, and is allowed on public streets, but not on limited access highways or on off-road recreational paths.

I wonder if the bike shops in Massachusetts which sell the higher speed/power models advise their customers about the legal requirements of their usage?

[fiamme red]

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2016/07/06/the-surprising-health-benefits-of-an-electric-bike-2/

I'm in favor of electric bikes, but on the other hand I've been passed going uphill by delivery men who were smoking cigarettes while riding them. :)

[joev]

Well this was a first. On Saturday's group ride here in Tucson, the Old Man Shootout, there was an old guy (really...he had grey hear and all!), without a helmet, in the middle of our bunch - say 70 riders - and on a bike with a motor by the bottom bracket! A buddy of mine remarked after the ride on seeing the "strong old guy next to him" and I asked if he saw the motor and he almost fell to the ground when he realized what had happened.

I am all for e-bikes and all. They get people out and to places they wouldn't otherwise. But not in a group ride...w/o a helmet. A newbe in the group w/a motor is not what I want to be next to in a bunch. Is this the next trend?

[Tony]

I have no problem with E-bikes, unless you use strava while riding one.

This guy gets a free E bike, real transparent with his comments regarding its performance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw0mywCfuB0

Same guy on a Turbo Levo FSR Comp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ap_7TPZ_rY

[BobO]

I want to put my dad on an ebike. I'd like to see him do much more for fitness and the ebike would get him over those few hills that scare him. It's not ideal for fitness, but, something is better than nothing. Plus, I could get him to motor pace me. :beer:

As to bike vs motorcycle, if it can go 30 uphill, it's a motorcycle and has no business being in a bike lane. Ebikes on a MUP is a different thing and it depends on the riders. If they slow for congested areas and act with consideration and courtesy, who cares. Otherwise, lump them in with those strong patheletes who try to go 25 through packs of moms with strollers and mop dogs.

[Ti Designs]

My concern is about human nature. People are lazy, most people will go for the easier option. So where does that end? My supermarket has two electric grocery carts for customers who can't walk around, they're both always in use. You could make the argument that they give people access to food shopping on their own, but I would have to argue that they help enable people to reach that level.

Our society defends the right to do nothing. In my early 20s I suffered a severe back injury that left me in a wheelchair. It seemed like everybody at the time was trying to convince me that it was OK, that being unable to walk was almost normal. They gave me lots of examples of people who couldn't walk 100 yards... What they didn't suggest was doing something about it. The concept of hard work instead of sitting back and being lazy is almost unthinkable. So once you have the option to let the electric assist do the work, do you ever really go back???

[ofcounsel]

I picked up a Specialized Levo full suspension rig for my wife last year. She really likes it.

Until she owned the Levo, about the best I could do was get her to go for flat river bed trail rides. Now, she'll go riding on moderate dirt trails with my 8 year old son and I. Today, we rode about 8 miles and climbed about 500 feet. Not much for my son and I. But my wife never, ever have done it without the Levo. So it's a great addition to the family.

I've taken the Levo out twice myself (my wife's 5'8" and I'm 5'10", so we both get by on a medium frame). One ride was 38 miles and 6000+ feet of elevation gain. I had to run the power settings at the absolute minimum to go that distance/elevation. And it wasn't as "easy" as one would think, but I put out about the same physical effort as a 20 mile/3000ft dirt ride (based on Strava suffer score data) (no PR's or other rider's data was compromised with my Strava data....I classified the ride within Strava's "e-bike" category, which doesn't allow the data to be compared to full-human powered bikes).

Bottom line... I wouldn't get one for myself, but it's a great addition to the family quiver.

[ofcounsel]

So once you have the option to let the electric assist do the work, do you ever really go back???

I always have the option to take out the Levo..... 99 times out of 100, I doubt I would.

The bike certainly has it's place. It's great for my wife and my son loves that she's out with us on Sunday family rides...

I have friends who own them as well. If it gets them outside and having fun, hey, it's all good by me...

And if any of my fool friends get the wise idea to climb Harding Truck Trail to Santiago Peak again, then yeah... I will feel no shame in pulling out the Levo again. But absent that... I enjoy the simple pleasure/pain of the struggle to reach the top... Even with my late 40's fat dad bod...

[Ti Designs]

I have friends who own them as well. If it gets them outside and having fun, hey, it's all good by me...

But lazy is a standard distribution - that bell curve we all know and love, and [most people here] pride ourselves on being somewhere to the far right when it comes to physical activity. The scary part is it's a self adjusting standard distribution. Let's say that e-bikes are truly integrated with the cycling population, and the bell curve being plotted is average fitness of each individual. For anyone in the bottom 25% the answer to riding a bike is easy - get an e-bike and let it do the work. This is no different from the motorized shopping cart, they gain mobility at the cost of what fitness they had, and at some point it becomes hopeless. From the 50% mark down, there will be a temptation to move across the bell curve - all of the sudden they can do those epic rides they've read about in magazines. They always have the option to not use the electric assist... Yeh right, it's going to follow the same pattern at any narcotic effect. People always have the option of not texting while driving, but... That brings us to the right side of the bell curve and a tradition in cycling called cheating.

The bottom line is if cycling increases fitness, e-bikes will cause a shift in the bell curve towards the left. The bell curve will always adjust, but the average fitness level will be lower. You can give individual accounts of how an e-bike hasn't lowered your own fitness, that's one data point in a graph of millions...

[oldpotatoe]

Well this was a first. On Saturday's group ride here in Tucson, the Old Man Shootout, there was an old guy (really...he had grey hear and all!), without a helmet, in the middle of our bunch - say 70 riders - and on a bike with a motor by the bottom bracket! A buddy of mine remarked after the ride on seeing the "strong old guy next to him" and I asked if he saw the motor and he almost fell to the ground when he realized what had happened.

I am all for e-bikes and all. They get people out and to places they wouldn't otherwise. But not in a group ride...w/o a helmet. A newbe in the group w/a motor is not what I want to be next to in a bunch. Is this the next trend?

Even tho spring time and this will undoubtedly digress into a mud sling..how does the gent w/o a helmet effect you? His noggin, his biz. MY opinion.

[Rusty Luggs]

Well this was a first. On Saturday's group ride here in Tucson, the Old Man Shootout, there was an old guy (really...he had grey hear and all!), without a helmet, in the middle of our bunch - say 70 riders - and on a bike with a motor by the bottom bracket! A buddy of mine remarked after the ride on seeing the "strong old guy next to him" and I asked if he saw the motor and he almost fell to the ground when he realized what had happened.

I am all for e-bikes and all. They get people out and to places they wouldn't otherwise. But not in a group ride...w/o a helmet. A newbe in the group w/a motor is not what I want to be next to in a bunch. Is this the next trend?
e-bike = motorized vehicle
My thoughts about them integrated into a group ride are no different than my thoughts about any other motorized vehicle being mixed in. Not welcome.

Like mopeds, they have their utility and place in the world.

[oldpotatoe]

Nothing to add..just thought this was funny..

[Bentley]

I've been considering building one as a fun project. Used hardtail MTB donor bike, battery, and a 750w mid engine kit. Looked like it could be done for less than $2k all in if based on the Bafang BBS02 (http://lunacycle.com/motors/mid-drive-kits/bafang-mid-drive-and-parts/bafang-bbs02-750w-mid-drive-with-upgraded-3077-controller/).

Example
https://www.electricbike.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/BBS02aa.png

So what is the range on one of these and top speed? I have been thinking about modifying a nike for my oldest daughter that has MS so she could ride the MS 150 with me, I would need like 65mi at 20ish mph to make it work, is that possible. She can pedal a bit, but overheating is the concern

Thanks

Ray

[benb]

I'm of the opinion they can be/will be a great thing for commuters.

I went into the LBS yesterday with my brother. He's not athletic/fit or inclined to be. He works at a bank, no facilities for showering, etc.. He has a short commute and drives.

He was pretty intrigued by the eBikes.. (shop is pushing them hard all of a sudden). It would probably improve his fitness. The LBS in question said they have a policy of only selling pedal assist bikes.

He could get one and ride it to work probably without breaking a sweat. He would get > 0 exercise, wouldn't have to shower. He'd significantly drop his spending on gasoline, reduce wear and tear on the car, and cut C02 emissions.

The eBikes are also coming set up very practical for the street unlike most bikes that are built/sold on the illusion that everyone is going to race. The eBikes almost all had full fenders, came with built in permanently wired taillights and headlights, etc..

Now on the trail (dirt) I am really not in favor of them. I really do believe they are going to do more damage. Not only due to the motor on the uphills but just the fact they are tanks and weigh more. The riders are going to have to spend more time braking for corners (more chances to break loose and dig up trails) and they are going to need more tire just to get through the corners at the same speed and will probably dig things up more there too.

For the group ride scenario, seems pretty cut and dry, just like most groups do not allow riders without helmets, just make a club policy that motorized bikes are not allowed. Folks who want to include motors can go form their own group. Already happens with motorcycles.

[classtimesailer]

I think Grant Peterson has predicted that Electric Motor Powered Bicycles will one day replace bicycles. Here in SoCal, they are becoming a nuisance on the MUPs. and if they are so great for commuting, then they should make a special Electric Motor Powered Bicycles lane on the freeways. Something needs to be done before some 60 lb. machine, driven by a 300 lb. exec., that lost his drivers license, mows down a toddler on his way home from happy hour.
I feel strongly about this because I have seen some close ones.

[jlyon]

Something needs to be done about Ebikes?

Seems like the list of transportation related safety improvements is very long and ebikes as of yet would not be in the top 50.

On MUP trails maybe they might get into the top 5 but as with all other problems judgment is not always on great display when enjoying then great outdoors.

[classtimesailer]

Something needs to be done about Ebikes?

Seems like the list of transportation related safety improvements is very long and ebikes as of yet would not be in the top 50.

On MUP trails maybe they might get into the top 5 but as with all other problems judgment is not always on great display when enjoying then great outdoors.

Electric Motor Bicycles are relatively new and many folks are not aware of the dangers posed. Most everyone knows not to play in the street, but it will take a few accidents before everyone realizes that the MUP is also dangerous when 28 mph motorbikes are using it to get home from work.

[fuzzalow]

From the 50% mark down, there will be a temptation to move across the bell curve - all of the sudden they can do those epic rides they've read about in magazines.

Your comment brought me a laugh. The average, mass consumer, sedentary 'Murican neither reads, reads bike magazines nor aspires to epic rides. None of the above is what they do best!

For the most part I disagree with the main elements of your premise because the mere fact of an e-bike being of open cockpit two-wheels makes it self selecting and limiting to the people that will remain open to its use. This is a car culture society, and for the bulk, in more ways than one, of average Americans they will not be looking to cross over to two wheels anymore than they want to ride motorcycles or return to any form of bicycle which they left long ago as a rite of adulthood in getting their first driver license.

I support e-bikes, the more bicycles in all its myriad forms, the better. MUTs are not for e-bikes anymore than it is appropriate for a sport cyclist and if or when e-bikes get accepted and popular, the local municipalities will enforce those MUT restrictions by dealing with it when they gotta deal with it.

[oldpotatoe]

I stopped in Hygiene today...great coffee and a home made blueberry pie thing that brought tears to my eyes. The other thing that brought tears to my eyes, was a rather large fella, that cruised up on what appeared to be, a e-bike Friday. Complete with 3 computers on his handlebars( I looked while he was in the loo)...iPhone, Garmin and CatEye. Only thing missing was a power meter(huh??)....sorry, enthusiast bike ride...don get it.

[brockd15]

I want one for my wife. She wants to bike commute but doing it on a regular bike isn't real likely (time, showers, etc.), but an ebike would make it a legit option.

Of those who have one, did you dip your toe in first or dive into the deep end? Do you recommend a purpose-built ebike or a conversion? If a conversion, which kit (assuming a kit)?

[Ralph]

For my wife, I've been thinking about just buying a E rear wheel.....E assist. Everything is contained in the rear hub. She has bad knees.....from much surgery, and is limited to slow 10 mile rides at 6-10 MPH. Some E assist could extend her range, and maybe increase her speed some. She would ride only on trails, but no shortage of routes around our area. Just a E assist rear wheel might not be so obvious if they begin enforcing "No motors" rules.

There are several manufacturers of rear wheels sorta like this one. 700C. Freehub takes her Shimano 9 cassette. She keeps her gears and brakes, just rear wheel has assist. https://electricbikereview.com/superpedestrian/copenhagen-wheel/

[colker]

e is for evil..
that´s my thought.

[p nut]

I want one for my wife. She wants to bike commute but doing it on a regular bike isn't real likely (time, showers, etc.), but an ebike would make it a legit option.

Of those who have one, did you dip your toe in first or dive into the deep end? Do you recommend a purpose-built ebike or a conversion? If a conversion, which kit (assuming a kit)?

Just curious, why not a scooter? Even less sweat, more range, more cargo space, etc.

[fuzzalow]

Just curious, why not a scooter? Even less sweat, more range, more cargo space, etc.

Depending on municipality, a scooter will almost always require registration and depending on DMV class of scooter, insurance and a motorcycle-class license qualification.

Any e-bike, as mostly undefined by DMV, is therefore untaxed, unlicensed and uninsured. Which makes it wild, wild west and any number can play.

[ofcounsel]

I want one for my wife. She wants to bike commute but doing it on a regular bike isn't real likely (time, showers, etc.), but an ebike would make it a legit option.

Of those who have one, did you dip your toe in first or dive into the deep end? Do you recommend a purpose-built ebike or a conversion? If a conversion, which kit (assuming a kit)?

I test rode one myself first before considering one for my wife. After riding it for a few minutes, I figured it would work for her. Once she confirmed by testing it herself, we dove into the deep end. I have no experience with conversions, so I can't speak to them. But I've been very impressed so far with the Specialized Levo. Specialized commuter style e-bikes start at about $2500, so at that price, it might make sense to get a fully integrated bike from a known entity with a proper warranty, rather than a donor bike/dyi-kit set up (assuming the budget allows). I have no affiliation, but this seems like a decent deal, all things considered.

Check this out:https://www.specialized.com/us/en/bikes/turbo/urban/turbo/66185

[Ti Designs]

For the most part I disagree with the main elements of your premise because the mere fact of an e-bike being of open cockpit two-wheels makes it self selecting and limiting to the people that will remain open to its use. This is a car culture society, and for the bulk, in more ways than one, of average Americans they will not be looking to cross over to two wheels anymore than they want to ride motorcycles or return to any form of bicycle which they left long ago as a rite of adulthood in getting their first driver license.

So limit the distribution to just people who ride two wheel vehicles. e-bikes will still cause a shift in the fitness scale.

[ofcounsel]

So limit the distribution to just people who ride two wheel vehicles. e-bikes will still cause a shift in the fitness scale.

So, some people will elect to pedal e-assist bikes over non-assist bikes.... And those that chose e-assist bikes do may not be as fit as those who ride non-assist bikes. YIKES!!! The HORROR!!!!

[Tony]

I think Grant Peterson has predicted that Electric Motor Powered Bicycles will one day replace bicycles. Here in SoCal, they are becoming a nuisance on the MUPs. and if they are so great for commuting, then they should make a special Electric Motor Powered Bicycles lane on the freeways. Something needs to be done before some 60 lb. machine, driven by a 300 lb. exec., that lost his drivers license, mows down a toddler on his way home from happy hour.
I feel strongly about this because I have seen some close ones.

I've seen the same thing from cyclists on their way from happy hour to, well another happy hour. Close calls with others riding bikes and driving cars. Our bike trail, ARBT takes one right into downtown with lot's of happy hour locations.

[fuzzalow]

So limit the distribution to just people who ride two wheel vehicles. e-bikes will still cause a shift in the fitness scale.

Huh? What is your point here? This is still a free market consumer economy we are talkin' about, right?

I mean this with all respect, but I think your line of thought is caught up in your own narcissism in valuing a lifestyle earned in part by a fitness lifestyle. I do not believe the average American wants to be just like you or is in the least bit curious of wanting to experience your lifestyle. Fitness scale, as some arbitrary scale you apply on others, is a just a measure you use to look down on them.

Any cyclist cruising at 20mph is in good form. I don't think anyone is using an e-bike to cheat at going 20mph because they are too afraid of the work it takes to FTP @ 20mph wattage - the sport of cycling is not on their radar and they couldn't care less that someone is capable of 20mph under their own power.

[stien]

I'm a pretty huge fan of the pedal assist. It will get more people riding. I think the bike paths could just put up signs saying "no motorized vehicles" (they probably already do) and we'll be fine. I ride mine to/from work 4-5 times a week on the road. Pedal assist to 20mph is no different than a wannabe racer flying down the path even faster. They do it all the time, where is the public outcry? FWIW it still takes work to keep the bike at 20mph unless you totally max out the assist, then you're only going like 5 miles.

Anyone who wants to get somewhere faster will stay off the paths around here. Too many people and tons of bumps made by roots.

[colker]

I'm a pretty huge fan of the pedal assist. It will get more people riding. I think the bike paths could just put up signs saying "no motorized vehicles" (they probably already do) and we'll be fine. I ride mine to/from work 4-5 times a week on the road. Pedal assist to 20mph is no different than a wannabe racer flying down the path even faster. They do it all the time, where is the public outcry? FWIW it still takes work to keep the bike at 20mph unless you totally max out the assist, then you're only going like 5 miles.

Anyone who wants to get somewhere faster will stay off the paths around here. Too many people and tons of bumps made by roots.

A wanna be racer has honed enough his handling skills to ride fast and safe. Anyone can reach high speeds on a motorized bike. Anyone can climb a mountain.. now when it comes to descend it w/ no physical preparation or experience, you are royally screwed. Next, the mountain pass is shut down fro cycling.
Ebikes are dangerous. Want to risk it? Get a motorcycle.

[oldpotatoe]

Depending on municipality, a scooter will almost always require registration and depending on DMV class of scooter, insurance and a motorcycle-class license qualification.

Any e-bike, as mostly undefined by DMV, is therefore untaxed, unlicensed and uninsured. Which makes it wild, wild west and any number can play.

Here, less than 50cc(most scooters are 49cc) no license, no license plate and as they haul ass on the bike lanes, no brains either. :eek:

[p nut]

A wanna be racer has honed enough his handling skills to ride fast and safe. Anyone can reach high speeds on a motorized bike. Anyone can climb a mountain.. now when it comes to descend it w/ no physical preparation or experience, you are royally screwed. Next, the mountain pass is shut down fro cycling.
Ebikes are dangerous. Want to risk it? Get a motorcycle.

Not to mention trying to maneuver a bike that weighs 2 to 3 times a normal bike. Luckily, I haven't seen any ebikes on my local trail where I hike with my kids. It's inevitable, though.

Here, less than 50cc(most scooters are 49cc) no license, no license plate and as they haul ass on the bike lanes, no brains either. :eek:

Same here. 49cc, no moto endorsement needed (does need to be registered, though).

[benb]

A wanna be racer has honed enough his handling skills to ride fast and safe. Anyone can reach high speeds on a motorized bike. Anyone can climb a mountain.. now when it comes to descend it w/ no physical preparation or experience, you are royally screwed. Next, the mountain pass is shut down fro cycling.
Ebikes are dangerous. Want to risk it? Get a motorcycle.

Meh.. Someone who takes and passes the MSF beginner class (takes like 3 days) knows more about handling a 2 wheel vehicle than a lot of wanna be racers.

Half those Cat 4/5 pileups are cause many/most cyclists still don't understand how bikes work, they just know how to put their head down and pedal hard.

This is not an insurmountable problem, and it's going to be some time before you see eBikes climbing mountain passes and then folks crashing on the way down as the battery tech isn't really there. Besides the eBikes generally have disc brakes and flat handlebars so they are less likely to have the rider go flying off the road compared to your traditional road bike with drop bars and rim brakes.

[colker]

Meh.. Someone who takes and passes the MSF beginner class (takes like 3 days) knows more about handling a 2 wheel vehicle than a lot of wanna be racers.

Half those Cat 4/5 pileups are cause many/most cyclists still don't understand how bikes work, they just know how to put their head down and pedal hard.

This is not an insurmountable problem, and it's going to be some time before you see eBikes climbing mountain passes and then folks crashing on the way down as the battery tech isn't really there. Besides the eBikes generally have disc brakes and flat handlebars so they are less likely to have the rider go flying off the road compared to your traditional road bike with drop bars and rim brakes.

.. it´s the internet and if you say meh then it must be true.

[benb]

.. it´s the internet and if you say meh then it must be true.

Same to you.. remarks about eBikes ruining the world are typical roadie elitism.

[stien]

A wanna be racer has honed enough his handling skills to ride fast and safe.

I was at a crit on Saturday. Not even close to being true.


Anyone can reach high speeds on a motorized bike. Anyone can climb a mountain.. now when it comes to descend it w/ no physical preparation or experience, you are royally screwed.

The same could be said about cars or motorcycles. What about driving at idle speeds in a parking lot during a driving test prepares you for canyon carving? I've personally experienced way more inattentive or moronic drivers behind the wheel of a car (any kind, not just SUV) than there are bicycle riders in this town. Even an inexperienced rider could make it to the top of a mountain and have a dangerous time coming down in your scenario. Sounds like you're saying that bicycles in general are dangerous and should be left to the elite.

[shovelhd]

I was at a crit on Saturday. Not even close to being true.

Ninigret? I was the CR. It took me 2 1/2 hours to write up all of the occurrence reports. Three ambulance rolls. Serious injuries.

That said, it's typical early season racing. Things settle down once everyone gets some miles off of the trainer.

[jlyon]

I do believe Ebike proliferation is unstoppable.

Do we want to help them and teach then the proper ways of cycling or divide our ranks even more and in doing allow opposing factions to take away more of our current cycling choices?

Or we could just sit here and post about our greatest fears about other's lack of skills and judgment.

[colker]

I was at a crit on Saturday. Not even close to being true.



The same could be said about cars or motorcycles. What about driving at idle speeds in a parking lot during a driving test prepares you for canyon carving? I've personally experienced way more inattentive or moronic drivers behind the wheel of a car (any kind, not just SUV) than there are bicycle riders in this town. Even an inexperienced rider could make it to the top of a mountain and have a dangerous time coming down in your scenario. Sounds like you're saying that bicycles in general are dangerous and should be left to the elite.


MUTs became scary w/ ebikes. Problem w/them other than riders throwing themselves into way more trouble they are ready to handle.. is mixing the ebike´s high speeds and MUT leisure pace.
The hybrid nature of those things is a problem, not a solution.

[KidWok]

MUTs became scary w/ ebikes. Problem w/them other than riders throwing themselves into way more trouble they are ready to handle.. is mixing the ebike´s high speeds and MUT leisure pace.
The hybrid nature of those things is a problem, not a solution.

I also don't agree that e-bikes themselves are the problem. I think it was Larry the Cable Guy that said "Guns don't kill people. Husbands who come home early kill people." I don't know what it's like elsewhere, but here in Seattle, we have a large network of MUP's. I definitely see road cyclists/triathletes riding recklessly on them. E-bikes are a relatively new thing and I think we'll see a similar proportion of people using e-bikes recklessly. So the problem people being inconsiderate idiots more so than what they ride (or drive).

I do think that there will need to be some firming up of regulations. California's laws are a great place to start:

https://www.electricbike.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/ChartEbikeLaw.png

FWIW, I use a class 3 Stromer ST 1, which has a top speed of almost 30 mph. I've never bothered using it at that speed because it take quite a bit of work to get there. I typically am moving along at about 20-22 mph. There have been times when I've cut through a park or over a sidewalk to get around traffic and I'm mindful to let pedestrians have the right of way in those cases. No one has ever harassed me for riding recklessly, 'cus I don't.

And I would definitely not agree with the assumption that the zippy roadie on a MUP is a racer with finely honed handling skills. Even then, avoiding pedestrians is not the problem. Perception of recklessness is.

Tai

[classtimesailer]

I do believe Ebike proliferation is unstoppable.

Do we want to help them and teach then the proper ways of cycling or divide our ranks even more and in doing allow opposing factions to take away more of our current cycling choices?

Or we could just sit here and post about our greatest fears about other's lack of skills and judgment.

The proper way of cycling is to pedal pedal pedal. Moving a few cagers onto the MUPs and bike lanes with their reckless, don't signal, weaving in and out of lanes, with headphones, selfishness, is ruining one of my cycling choices.

[merlinmurph]

A wanna be racer has honed enough his handling skills to ride fast and safe.

Nah, wannabe racers have no place on a MUP if they're training and there are lots of other users on it. And like others have said, their handling skills are questionable, too. A MUP is no place to go fast, and someone on an e-bike is going to rip.

[kevinvc]

I love that they're becoming more popular. I'd bet that almost every person you see riding one would otherwise be driving a car, probably alone.

For a number of reasons, mainly health, my wife isn't able to do very much cycling. We bought her a pedal assist ebike a couple of years ago and she rides it to work when the weather is good. The rest of the time she drives a van. About 10 years ago I worked with a guy who started commuting on an ebike. After several months he had lost a ton of weight and was much healthier. He also learned that he liked cycling and bought a non-motorized bike for his commute instead.

I'm not ego driven (at least while commuting) and don't mind being passed by an out of shape looking person on an ebike. I agree that the full throttle ones are a potential hazard on MUPs, but think the Cat 6 racers are a lot worse on both the trails and the streets.

[benb]

Heh.. honestly it does start to sound more and more as you read this thread that if you are really concerned about the eBikes ruining "your MUP/MUT" that you might be that obnoxious roadie who rides the MUP/MUT trying to be top dog and take the strava KOMs away from the little kids.

As long as the eBike people don't learn about Strava they won't get to maximum dickhead levels.:rolleyes:

[colker]

Heh.. honestly it does start to sound more and more as you read this thread that if you are really concerned about the eBikes ruining "your MUP/MUT" that you might be that obnoxious roadie who rides the MUP/MUT trying to be top dog and take the strava KOMs away from the little kids.

As long as the eBike people don't learn about Strava they won't get to maximum dickhead levels.:rolleyes:

well, it´s your opinion and i don´t care about it because no racers are riding fast on cyclepàths here while guys on ebikes do.
You have a problem w/ style and stereotypes(roadie, racer, this and that). I have a problem w/ careless riding bringing danger. That´s all.

[Tony]

MUTs became scary w/ ebikes. Problem w/them other than riders throwing themselves into way more trouble they are ready to handle.. is mixing the ebike´s high speeds and MUT leisure pace.
The hybrid nature of those things is a problem, not a solution.

Here on our bike path, American River Bike Trail, on weekends, it's those on road bikes that have caused issues, enough so that Rangers started using radar guns to control speed. There are many group rides from local bike shops that run along the river levees that are available to go as fast as one likes, however some do so on bike paths that are shared with runners and cyclists cruising below 20 mph. I have not seen nor heard of one ebike causing an issue, (some two stroke powered bikes that leave you sucking their petrol fumes), but no ebikes. It's some of the cyclists that are causing safety concerns.

[pdmtong]

My concern is about human nature. People are lazy, most people will go for the easier option. So where does that end? My supermarket has two electric grocery carts for customers who can't walk around, they're both always in use. You could make the argument that they give people access to food shopping on their own, but I would have to argue that they help enable people to reach that level.

Our society defends the right to do nothing. In my early 20s I suffered a severe back injury that left me in a wheelchair. It seemed like everybody at the time was trying to convince me that it was OK, that being unable to walk was almost normal. They gave me lots of examples of people who couldn't walk 100 yards... What they didn't suggest was doing something about it. The concept of hard work instead of sitting back and being lazy is almost unthinkable. So once you have the option to let the electric assist do the work, do you ever really go back???

But lazy is a standard distribution - that bell curve we all know and love, and [most people here] pride ourselves on being somewhere to the far right when it comes to physical activity. The scary part is it's a self adjusting standard distribution. Let's say that e-bikes are truly integrated with the cycling population, and the bell curve being plotted is average fitness of each individual. For anyone in the bottom 25% the answer to riding a bike is easy - get an e-bike and let it do the work. This is no different from the motorized shopping cart, they gain mobility at the cost of what fitness they had, and at some point it becomes hopeless. From the 50% mark down, there will be a temptation to move across the bell curve - all of the sudden they can do those epic rides they've read about in magazines. They always have the option to not use the electric assist... Yeh right, it's going to follow the same pattern at any narcotic effect. People always have the option of not texting while driving, but... That brings us to the right side of the bell curve and a tradition in cycling called cheating.

The bottom line is if cycling increases fitness, e-bikes will cause a shift in the bell curve towards the left. The bell curve will always adjust, but the average fitness level will be lower. You can give individual accounts of how an e-bike hasn't lowered your own fitness, that's one data point in a graph of millions...
really?
so what about compact chainrings, triple cranksets, 32T cassettes? I guess the entire industry catering to aging cyclists has also shifted left according to your perspective.

not everyone with a severe back injury is fortunate to recover as you did. while I agree there are plenty of lazy people, there are plenty of folks who are doing the best they can and not moving the needle (per you).

Huh? What is your point here? This is still a free market consumer economy we are talkin' about, right?

I mean this with all respect, but I think your line of thought is caught up in your own narcissism in valuing a lifestyle earned in part by a fitness lifestyle. I do not believe the average American wants to be just like you or is in the least bit curious of wanting to experience your lifestyle. Fitness scale, as some arbitrary scale you apply on others, is a just a measure you use to look down on them.

Any cyclist cruising at 20mph is in good form. I don't think anyone is using an e-bike to cheat at going 20mph because they are too afraid of the work it takes to FTP @ 20mph wattage - the sport of cycling is not on their radar and they couldn't care less that someone is capable of 20mph under their own power.
^ word

[Tony]

Transition Introduces New Power Assist Bike!

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/introducing-the-transition-petrol-video-2017.html

[kevinvc]

There were so many choices of e-bike threads to resurrect, but this is the first one that came up when I did a search.

I am solidly in support of e-bikes and I hope to see more of them on the road. From my anecdotal experiences, they are more likely to be replacing a single occupancy motor vehicle than a non-motorized bicycle. My wife has started using an e-bike to commute. She has health issues that make a regular bike non-feasible for her for more than a mile or so. Her office offers free employee parking, so she has very little incentive to ride. This spring she decided to try using the e-bike and she has been using it almost every single day since. She's enjoying it so much that she's considering trying to keep riding even when the weather changes. And she's interested in using a regular bike instead of the e-bike once she's physically capable. Without an e-bike, she would still be driving a big mini-van every single day.

I am seeing a proliferation of e-bikes on my commute this summer. Some of the folks do not seem to be very experienced riders, but like any newbies, I expect they'll get better with more experience.

One other thing that I've noticed about most e-bikes: the people riding them almost always seem to be smiling.

[eddief]

on a weekday group ride last Friday we had 4 ebikes joining the ride. the club has some new rules about limits on top speed for ebikes. one guy was acting like an ahole by going 20 mph passed the main group without any warning. needless to say, he is an ahole. The 3 others were perfectly well behaved and having a good (easy?) time like the rest of us.

would love to try one and concerned I might never want to ride without assist again.

[charliedid]

I'm fine with it and no grumbling will change the fact that it is THE growth sector in bikes. As long as they stay in traffic and out of the bike lanes and off the M.U.P ....whatever, have at it.

Clowns to the left of me, jokers...

[Marc40a]

I can't stand the thought of them. I think they're for lazy shortcutters.

Leave it to some asshole to take the 'exercise' out of the ultimate exercise/transportation machine.

With 1/3rd of Americans obese and 3/4 men overweight, I think the popularity of the them is likely to explode.

That's my knee jerk reaction.

I do feel a bit for disabled or older people using them but that's not who these are going to be sold to. They're going to be sold to the masses.

On the upside, infrastructure improvements would be welcome.

[Marc40a]

on a weekday group ride last Friday we had 4 ebikes joining the ride. the club has some new rules about limits on top speed for ebikes. one guy was acting like an ahole by going 20 mph passed the main group without any warning. needless to say, he is an ahole. The 3 others were perfectly well behaved and having a good (easy?) time like the rest of us.

would love to try one and concerned I might never want to ride without assist again.

This would really bother me.

[charliedid]

License and insure them.

[dustyrider]

I'm fine with it and no grumbling will change the fact that it is THE growth sector in bikes. As long as they stay in traffic and out of the bike lanes and off the M.U.P ....whatever, have at it.

Clowns to the left of me, jokers...

I'm right there with you. But the states, and local governments get to decide what these things are and where these things can be ridden. The state I'm in just designated e-bikes into different classes. They didn't want to jeopardize the grant funding they get for multi-use trails or lose out on the taxes, and kickbacks from lobbyists, of future sales of e-bikes so they just designated pedal assist e-bikes as non-motorized! I believe they even made a certain class of e-bike with age restrictions and mandatory helmet use as well. So much for motors staying in the street...

Given the current price of an e-bike, I still can't understand why you wouldn't just buy motorcycle. Heck new mechanical mtb prices have me thinking of a motorcycle. And if you want electric there's a couple nice e-motorcycles out there!

Guess I'm just stuck in the middle...

[charliedid]

I'm right there with you. But the states, and local governments get to decide what these things are and where these things can be ridden. The state I'm in just designated e-bikes into different classes. They didn't want to jeopardize the grant funding they get for multi-use trails or lose out on the taxes, and kickbacks from lobbyists, of future sales of e-bikes so they just designated pedal assist e-bikes as non-motorized! I believe they even made a certain class of e-bike with age restrictions and mandatory helmet use as well. So much for motors staying in the street...

Given the current price of an e-bike, I still can't understand why you wouldn't just buy motorcycle. Heck new mechanical mtb prices have me thinking of a motorcycle. And if you want electric there's a couple nice e-motorcycles out there!

Guess I'm just stuck in the middle...

We are in sync.

They don't buy a motorcycle or scooter because of insurance and licensing. Have you ridden any of the high zoot ones? Holy smokes...I have sold a few in the past and they share only faint similarities with bicycles. Motorbikes indeed. Undeniably fast and dare I say (fun) I'm super interested in one of the e-motorcycles at some point.

One of the things I notice is how casually people roll through stop sign with them here. More brazen than cyclists for sure.

What a weird world we live in.

[BobbyJones]

OP here and I'd thought I'd follow up.

Since I asked, I've now had an ebike for about a year. Not a cheap one, but not a crazy expensive one.

As a full time bike commuter, and up until recently I logged 25-35mi per day year round. 5 days a week, at least everyday there wasn't snow or ice on the ground. A large portion of the ride is on the West Side Greenway, which is a MUT here in NYC for those who aren't in the know.

First month with the ebike for the commute was amazing. I found there was literally no faster way to get to work, even beating driving on "not so bad" traffic days or door to door on an express metro north train. And that was just cruising, spinning the pedals effortlessly. Fairly sweat free in summer and you can bundle up in winter without overheating concerns. I also found it being very convenient for evening trips back into the city for social stuff where taking transit or cabs would just be a hassle. Sometimes I would just take it out for a hour at night when the urge struck to be on a bike.

I enjoyed it so much I needed to stop riding it as I felt I was being lazy. Even now, between regular commuting, some evening and long weekend rides, it sure is nice to grab it on an occasional Monday AM when coming off a 3-400 mile week.

I also spend time a few towns north of New Haven- Taking metro north up and then using another MUT to get to where I need to go. (I recently found out that the Farmington Canal Trail or whatever parts of it are called, now extends around 30 miles north from New Haven) Coupled with an ebike its a viable transportation route for people who would never consider an on road bike commute. I could see a pedal-assist cargo bike being a legit auto replacement in a two car household for those willing to try.

My takeaway from the whole experience, inconsiderate Alpha jerks aside, the ebike is something to embrace. I'm looking forward to all of the legalities being worked out and seeing more people on them.

[fiamme red]

I recently found out that the Farmington Canal Trail or whatever parts of it are called, now extends around 30 miles north from New HavenIt actually extends, with some breaks, up to Westfield, MA (it becomes the Southwick Rail Trail north of the state line).

[93KgBike]

It is undeniable that e-bikes have disrupted the moped market.

But all joking aside, it seems like more bikes being sold and used is a rising tide for the industry and for cyclists.

I am a lifelong cyclist and motorcyclist, and those two parts of me don't really communicate. I have great road bikes, sportbikes, dirt bikes, and mtb's. None of them mix.

I just cannot imagine people who buy e-bikes being other than people who want to ride bicycles.

We all have to share the roads & trails and work it out together no matter what we ride, right?

[William]

2016 top E-Bikes...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-YyKy8WWmo

2017 top E-Bikes...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cwd0AnVDmQI






William

[classtimesailer]

What are the pedals for? Maybe it's none of my business except...
I got buzzed the other day in the bike lane by a motorbike (with pegs and no pedals) where there was barely room for both of us between the parked cars and slow moving traffic. Now I know that he knows that he didn't belong there which makes that dangerous situation a rarity. Getting buzzed by electric motor bikes that also have pedals is happening more frequently and if one of these effers takes me out, I'm gonna react very badly.

[fiamme red]

Pedal-assist e-bikes now legal in NYC: http://www1.nyc.gov/office-of-the-mayor/news/165-18/mayor-de-blasio-new-framework-clarify-legality-pedal-assist-bicycles.

Mayor Bill de Blasio today announced that DOT will begin the rule-making process to clarify that pedal-assist bicycles are legal to operate in New York City. The new rule will recognize that pedal-assist bicycles are permissible, whereas throttle e-bikes, capable of travel at speeds over 20 MPH, cannot be legally operated on City streets under State law...So pedal-assist e-bikes are not capable of travel at speeds over 20 MPH? :confused:

[BobbyJones]

Pedal-assist e-bikes now legal in NYC: http://www1.nyc.gov/office-of-the-mayor/news/165-18/mayor-de-blasio-new-framework-clarify-legality-pedal-assist-bicycles.

So pedal-assist e-bikes are not capable of travel at speeds over 20 MPH? :confused:


The facts in the article are a little cloudy as presented. Will be interesting to see the official DOT / Mayoral clarification.

[weaponsgrade]

Personally, I'm cool with e-bikes on the road, but I'm drawing the line when it comes to mtn bike single track.

[Mark McM]

Pedal-assist e-bikes now legal in NYC: http://www1.nyc.gov/office-of-the-mayor/news/165-18/mayor-de-blasio-new-framework-clarify-legality-pedal-assist-bicycles.

So pedal-assist e-bikes are not capable of travel at speeds over 20 MPH? :confused:

Of course they can go faster than 20 MPH. However the CPSC defines an electric bicycle as having a top speed of 20 MPH when powered solely by the motor.. Speeds above that require pedal power from the rider (or a steep hill).

[jimcav]

They look super fun. If I ride to work, it's a one-way trip of 26 miles with no showers available at the office. Could be nice to ride in without busting a sweat and then push it hard on the way home.

But on the singletrack? Eh.

did that same commute for years, kept rubbing alcohol in the office to wipe down after rides. It works and I got it down to about 3minutes total to wipe down and change. had to learn to cruise the last mile into work to cool down a bit--otherwise I kept sweating 30miutnes into my 1st mtg

[fa63]

I have had this since the beginning of the year; complete game changer for me. I can now commute to and from work (~15 miles each way) without being completely covered it sweat (lots of hills in Atlanta).

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180404/e6df1d68d8cda46c3ce4a0bd6cc47108.jpg

[pasadena]

e-bikes are probably the only viable hope of getting more people on bicycles.
They are huge in europe, and companies like Specialized freely admit they only sell in the US market as a foot in the water. It owes its existence to the Euro market demand.

Let go of the romantic notions of "earning" your way up a hill or being fitter and "deserve" to be faster or that sweat is good.

Cycling needs to be a practical, easy alternative transportation tool.
People en masse need to see the bicycle as a MORE convenient and/or faster/cheaper/easier mode of transport.

This has nothing to do with recreational cycling.
This has nothing to do with a "cycling lifestyle".
The people that need to get into e-bikes will never visit a forum like this nor
have any interest in it.

The way most cities are set up, especially LA, the e-bike is the only real hope to spread cycling as viable alternative transportation.

I see some changes on the roads, and more rental bikes out there, but cycling - and cycling infrastructure can only grow exponentially with exponentially more people demanding it.

E-bikes are not for anyone here- they are for those that will never be here.

[pasadena]

You are speaking to how someone rides their bike, not to the technology.
The situation doesn't make any sense to e-bikes specifically.

Getting buzzed by anyone, and taken out can happen. I've seen it far more with beach cruisers or unaware pedestrians, than anything else.


What are the pedals for? Maybe it's none of my business except...
I got buzzed the other day in the bike lane by a motorbike (with pegs and no pedals) where there was barely room for both of us between the parked cars and slow moving traffic. Now I know that he knows that he didn't belong there which makes that dangerous situation a rarity. Getting buzzed by electric motor bikes that also have pedals is happening more frequently and if one of these effers takes me out, I'm gonna react very badly.

[unterhausen]

I'm hopeful they will get more people on bikes. They really seem to have captured the attention of a lot of people around here recently. Not sure why that would be. The LBS I use is going to start carrying them.

This is an old thread, so I might have responded before. I was in the bike shop a couple of weeks ago when the UPS man asked them if they were going to start carrying ebikes. People are interested.

[jinbok]

more bikes (any bikes) on the road = less cars = YES.

[eippo1]

I'm giving it some serious thought. I have to drive 2-3 days/ week due to meetings, but for those other days take the commuter rail in to the city. The only issue there is that it dumps me at North Station and I work at the farthest peninsula on the Seaport.

No good public transportation, so I have been taking the bikeshare to the office since it's only about 20 mins (public trans is anywhere from 45 mins to an hour). The only issue that that even when I'm la-de-dahing it, I still arrive at work sweaty as hell and with a knee that kills me since the hubway bikes don't adjust enough.

So am currently weighing if I get a folder to bring on the commuter rail with me or get a SpecEd turbo and go all the way into the office.

[steve]

Before you purchase an ebike, make sure you understand your state motor vehicle law. For example, ebikes are not legal for use on public roads in New York State. Our bike club recently banned ebikes on club rides as our insurance carrier would not cover their use because of the state laws.

[fa63]

So am currently weighing if I get a folder to bring on the commuter rail with me or get a SpecEd turbo and go all the way into the office.

We have a customer with a Turbo; he loves it.

[Babrassiler]

So am currently weighing if I get a folder to bring on the commuter rail with me or get a SpecEd turbo and go all the way into the office.

I was using a brompton to commute from the NS to Cambridge, sweating was unavoidable. Recently purchased an e-bike and started commuting the entire 16 miles. Actually not much faster than when I rode it on my road bike but I'm not exhausted from the constant stop start and I feel much safer being able to keep up with cars from red lights.

Electric cars may be better for the environment but they do nothing to alleviate congestion and as others have said, more bikes on the road = less cars

[RWeb]

Anything bicycle I'm a fan of.

[Mark McM]

Every year, the bicycle marketing people kept claiming that their new bicycles were so much better - they were more efficient, stiffer, lower drag, lower rolling resistance, etc. If the magnitudes of the improvements promised every year were really true, then it could only be a matter of time before bicycles pedaled themselves ...

... well, now they do. I guess the bicycle marketers were right all along!

[fiamme red]

"Pedal-assist" bikes (whatever exactly those are) will now be legal in NYC: http://rules.cityofnewyork.us/content/dot-notice-adoption-traffic-rules-amendment-relating-pedal-assist-bicycles.

The Commissioner of the New York City Department of Transportation (DOT) is authorized to promulgate rules regarding parking and traffic operations in the City by Section 2903(a) of the New York City Charter. The rules that DOT is amending are contained within Chapter 4 of Title 34 of the Rules of the City of New York, relating to the “Traffic Rules and Regulations.”

The purpose of this rule amendment is to clarify that pedal-assist bicycles meeting the requirements of these rules are legal to operate in New York City. This rule will recognize that pedal-assist bicycles are permissible, whereas throttle e-bikes, may not be legally operated on public highways, which include streets, under State and city law. Specifically, the amendments to the Traffic Rules are as follows:

• Section 4-01 adds a new definition for “pedal-assist bicycle” and clarifies the definition of “bicycle” to include pedal-assist bicycles. It should be noted that DOT does not interpret section 19-176.2 of the New York City Administrative Code to prohibit pedal-assist bicycles as defined herein.The change was made to accommodate Citi Bike, which will introduce their e-bike fleet this summer.

[93KgBike]

25% achieved. The trend is picking up steam:

CHEYENNE, Wyo. (BRAIN) (https://www.bicycleretailer.com/industry-news/2019/02/22/wyoming-legislature-approves-three-class-e-bike-law#.XHhLG2aZOOE) — On Tuesday afternoon, Wyoming Gov. Mark Gordon signed legislation that recognizes electric bikes as bicycles and enables e-bike riders to enjoy the same paths and trails as other bicycle riders in Wyoming.

The Wyoming Legislature passed the bill last week. It establishes the three-class system of e-bikes that has been advanced by the Bicycle Product Suppliers Association and PeopleForBikes in 11 other states.
Wyoming is now the 12th state to institute a standardized e-bike law. The law will go into effect July 1.

More & more commuters using them in my area.

I welcome it.

[palincss]

So once you have the option to let the electric assist do the work, do you ever really go back???

I know a few people who purchased e-bikes when they were ill, and after a year or two recovered from their illnesses and sold the e-bikes. It's not necessarily or always a case of simply being out of shape or lazy. Consider Lennard Zinn and his heart arrhythmias.

[weaponsgrade]

I'm seeing a lot more commuters on e-bikes. Anything that helps bike-friendly infrastructure get built is a good thing in my book.

[pdmtong]

The only problem with e-bikes is they give speed to the unskilled.

[dancinkozmo]

this makes me sad...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=x_6kY-T3cA8

[Mark McM]

The only problem with e-bikes is they give speed to the unskilled.

I don't know about other countries, but in the US e-bikes are speed limited. In most states, the top speed that the motor can provide is 20 mph - a speed easily achieved (and exceeded) just by coasting down a moderate slope on a regular bike. Should we limit even pedal powered bikes only to the "skilled"?

[Mzilliox]

nothing, i give them no thought at all really

[pasadena]

The only problem with e-bikes is they give speed to the unskilled.

That can be said of literally everything with wheels.

[93KgBike]

Originally Posted by pdmtong View Post
The only problem with e-bikes is they give speed to the unskilled.That can be said of literally everything with wheels.

Ain't that the truth!

[benb]

I was in San Diego last week.

Around where I live we have dockless pedal bikes.

In San Diego it was all dockless eBikes and dockless eScooters.

They were everywhere... at least 5-6 competing companies. I stayed in Carlsbad and there weren't that many visible, but down in La Jolla there were like 20 of them on every block.

I actually think eBikes would stand a good chance of being put out of business by the dockless eScooters. The scooters completely do away with any thought of physical exertion, I think the masses will go for that instead.

Most of the eBikes I saw were being pedaled as little as possible.

It is a very hilly city, you would definitely be sweaty without an assist.

I'd been I saw 25 people on eBikes or eScooters for every person I saw on a normal bicycle.

Seems like bicycles for non-sport use are dead as a doornail if these things keep proliferating, particularly in the dockless rental model. It seems like that could actually be really bad for the LBS and the bike industry as my understanding has always been that the lower end bikes used by casual cyclists, commuters, kids, etc.. were bulk of sales.

You can get a lot of miles out of Bird scooters for the cost of a $500 hybrid bicycle. And you never worry about sweating, or the LBS charging you $25-50 for fixing your flat tire, or your bike being stolen from your office/high school/college dorm/local cafe.

[pdmtong]

All of these share bikes/scooters whether docked or dockless are intended to solve the last mile problem. In my SF riding experience the pricing is really biased towards <10minute rides.

Still, I know folks who rent them for their ride across the GGB and for fun in GG Park. They ride like pigs...to me it's just no fun EXCEPT that they are electric.

Scooters are great for really short distance but they do not handle like bikes, are not ideal for an emergency evasive maneuver (dodging a car door while in a bike lane) and generally ride roughly due to the small wheels/wheelbase. plus, scooters tempt folks to be on sidewalks which is a headache for pedestrians.

It is true that sharing alleviates storing a bike in an already cramped apartment, and nullifies the personal risk of theft.

There are local injury studies tracking the rate and type of electric share incidents which are rising to no ones surprise.

As I alluded earlier, riding my pedal bike to work in the morass with these electric-xyz is the most nerve wracking riding I have ever done. These people are not predictable and seem to go anywhere ignorant of others on the road.

One oddity about the scooters with a fixed top speed is timing a light. unlike a
bike, which you can accelerate, once you are cruising at the max scooter speed you then need to figure out if you can make the light or not.

[benb]

I agree with all those things you mentioned pdmtong.

I'm not sure I think non-cyclists care about riding a bike being fun, we are cyclists cause we find it fun, they are not cyclists cause they do not find it fun. Physical exertion of any kind is very NOT fun to most people. An eBike sounds great to them as you don't have to pedal as much. Take 100% of the pedaling out and it will be seen as more fun.

And the scooters and eBikes/eMotorcycles are going to improve a LOT over the years.

I agree about all the safety issues... I saw a conflict on the sidewalk between pedestrians and a couple of guys riding Birds on the sidewalk... first time I ever see these things and I already saw a conflict.

I am curious if they will take a lot longer to make it in places like Boston & NYC as who knows how they will survive our weather.

[Ti Designs]

so what about compact chainrings, triple cranksets, 32T cassettes? I guess the entire industry catering to aging cyclists has also shifted left according to your perspective.

It's not so much the aging of our population that's driving this, it's the unwillingness to take on a problem when it's easier to build something that does it for you. Take for example the Specialized FutureShock - that spring that they built into the steering tube of their Roubaix, Ruby and Diverge models. Let's ignore for now that it's a 20 year step backwards in bike design (it's a quill stem with a spring). The reason they offer it is because people put way too much weight on their handlebars. The best solution would be to teach people how to ride a bike. Once their body weight is on their pedals they no longer need the FurureShock or the ultra low gears. The problem is that it requires education and some amount of effort on the part of the consumer. That's just un-American, we're unteachable consumers.

[fa63]

Just watch how happy this guy is on the e-bike :-)

https://youtu.be/YYyc2Lfsn74