Serotta F1 fork cracked--what to replace it with?

[BumbleBeeDave]

I've found a couple of what I consider pretty definite cracks in the right fork leg of my F1 fork. It's a 2001 bike and has almost 29k miles on it, so this doesn't really surprise me. This fork has had a good run!

Here's a couple of pics. Opinions welcome on whether it's cosmetic or something deeper. This is the F1 with the titanium steerer.

So assuming I need to replace it, what to do it with? Our bike club prez also has a new bike shop (two blocks down the street from me!) and can get me a really good price on either 3T Funda, various Ritcheys, or ENVE. Pretty much anything that QBP offers.

Suggestions? Anybody have experience in this situation they can relate, especially the handling effects once they replaced the fork?

Many thanks!

BBD

[Cicli]

Bummer on the fork.
I have had really good luck with Ritchey and Enve. They have both served me very well over the years.

[saab2000]

Those are likely paint cracks and not cracks in the carbon. Paint would be brittle.

That said, it might be time for a whole new machine after 15 years and 29000 miles. There's a new world out there!

PS - Pull that brake bolt out and clean the whole thing with a toothbrush. That is rusty and there may be more interesting stuff hiding there.

[ultraman6970]

TO me looks more like paint cranks. U have to sand and see what you can find under the paint.

[regularguy412]

+1 on Enve.

I have a 1996 model CSI that I had to replace the F1 fork on. The Ouzo Pro was a free replacement (thanks Ben!). I found the Ouzo Pro with the 1" steerer to be a little flexy compared to the F1. So I finally retired that bike last year after 18 seasons and over 40,000 miles. I now have a Serotta Fondo TI. Granted, it has a 1 1/8" steerer but the Enve 2.0 fork seems much more stable when cornering at speed compared to the Ouzo Pro.

Mike in AR:beer:

[false_Aest]

If it's 1.125 why not get a Serotta F3 from Holland in San Diego.

Mike Lopez confirmed on the phone that the forks Holland Sell are the same as the Serottas. Down side is that Ben apparently told Mike something along the lines of "No cyclist worth their salt would put anything bigger than a 23mm tire on their bike." So, according to Mike, 25mm tires are the max you can go.

[buldogge]

1" fork?

...Columbus Minimal.

-Mark in St. Louis

[cachagua]

Is there anything to the stethoscope method? Somebody told me years ago to put a stethoscope on the fork and listen as you squeeze the ends together, and (with the wheel put back in) rock forward and backward. The idea is if you hear any creaking, crunching, et cetera then you've got problems.

I'm curious what the reputation of this test is around here, especially in light of the fact that it only tells you you've got problems -- it doesn't necessarily tell you you've got a safe fork.

[BumbleBeeDave]

.... is 1.125".

[ldamelio]

+ 1 for likely paint cracks due to look, # and distribution. 29k miles is not that much for a well-constructed fork. I'm going on 50K on a 2001 Ouzo Pro on my now back-up bike. It's clear gloss over carbon weave. Similar 'cracks' to yours in the clear coat that don't involve the carbon. That being said, if you're inclined to a new fork, I'm an Enve fan.

[rwsaunders]

If it is in indeed in need of replacement, you're lucky it's the 1.25" version as your options are plenty. If Mike Lopez is still in the fork business perhaps reach out to him, Dave Kirk or Kelly Bedford for suggestions, as their Serotta knowledge runs pretty deep.

[Black Dog]

Dollars to Donuts that those are paint cracks and not the fork cracking. Time for a repaint.

[bicycletricycle]

1.125 F1?

I didn't think that existed.

Looks 1" to me

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=130548&highlight=Serotta

Columbus minimal or wound up

I would get a nice steel fork made for it

[11.4]

That fork was tremendously overbuilt. Short of collisions and a short batch that had loose fork tips, I don't think I've ever seen one fail. The resin was pretty thick and cured slowly, leading to cracks in the paint similar to those, exacerbated by some fairly heavy paint that Serotta put on those forks.

There were a very few 1-1/8" F1's made, I believe, and if so, you have a very choice fork. If it's really a 1-1/8" steer, I'd sand it down with fine carbide paper, give it to a frame builder for inspection, and either repaint it or just clear coat it. To those who know, it's worth more than an Enve.

The F1 was what vinyl was to CDs. From being so overbuilt with the materials at the time it had a superb ride that is hard to match today. It's worth checking it out. You can match the geometry with a newer fork, but you won't quite get the same ride quality.

[campy man]

Consider sending to Calfee for inspection and a refinish.

[Ronsonic]

I'm not an expert, so if you take my advice and the fork explodes and you crash into a "Smart car" and die, killing the occupants it's not my fault. My primary experience with composite materials is wood.

Those radial hairline cracks around the crown (you circled one, but there's a half dozen more visible and probably more hiding - look underneath too) sure look like the finish dried hard and faster than the material under it or that there is a difference in expansion rates between the finish and fork. On a guitar we'd call that checking. These are not at a seam or a joint, which is where things usually break and a finish crack is likely to expose a structural problem. If this was a guitar, I'd say they were benign finish cracks.

If it were on my bench, I'd be flexing it hard and seeing if any of the cracks moved. If they do, and that is very easy to see, then you may have a problem. I have never had a carbon fork fail on me so don't know what they sound or feel like when it happens, but have been reading about creak and stethoscope tests since those first came out and it seems to work for other people.

Have someone with specific experience check it out, but that pattern of cracks looks exactly like what I'd expect from finish checking, exactly, including the half-moon crack just above the one you circled and half-hidden under the old oil.

[HenryA]

I'd ride it and then this winter remove the paint, inspect carefully and then re-paint after I didn't find anything wrong.

[Ken Robb]

I think I recall that Ben said he designed the F1 to replicate the ride of his steel forks so maybe you could have a steel fork made to suit?

[Black Dog]

I think I recall that Ben said he designed the F1 to replicate the ride of his steel forks so maybe you could have a steel fork made to suit?

Dave Kirk confirmed this here on this forum.

[Keith A]

1.125 F1?

I didn't think that existed.

That's what I thought too :confused:

[David Kirk]

Sorry I'd not seen this thread - BBD asked me to chime in.

As others have said the F1 is very much overbuilt and this is especially true in the crown area. It's also true that the outer carbon surface wasn't the smoothest and this meant that a good bit of filler was often used to get the surface contours to look really good under paint.

This filler is prone to getting stiff and brittle and cracking over time and one can often see this propagate through the paint to the surface. It's my guess that the cracks showing on the surface are this kind of crack.

So my internet-expert guess is that the fork is fine.

That said.........and this is a big caveat..........that fork has many years and miles under it and any of those cracks showing could, however unlikely, be an actual structural crack that in time could lead to failure. I know I don't need to say this but I will anyway.....there are three things on a bike that will kill you dead when they fail - bars, stems, and forks. I NEVER take chances with one of these. Most everything else will fail in a way that will make you pull out your phone and call for a ride and then complain later that your bike has a crappy rear dropout design. But when one of the "big three" fail you can hit the floor and be hurt badly or die.

I did 99% of the testing on the F1 and it is a very reliable fork that is not in any way prone to sudden failure. I tested these to hundreds of thousands of cycles on the fatigue machine and when they did eventually fail (like every fork will) it was the steel steerer that eventually let go......and we know how well those do in real life use (extremely well) and this bodes well. But - since it's one of the "big three" that can and will kill you if it fails I would replace it if there is any doubt in your mind. The only way to assure that the fork is still ok would be to carefully remove all the paint and filler and then inspect the fork for cracks. Most people will not do this and instead will replace the fork.

The F1 fork has a span of 365 mm and a rake of 43 mm and of course a 1" steerer. The replacement choices out there at this point are limited but if there is any doubt in your mind that the fork is safe it's time to find a fork with similar specs and make a lamp out of the F1.

I hope that is helpful.

dave

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . and I appreciate your expert opinion.

I was just pretty darn sure this steerer measures at 1.125, but I'll pop off the stem cap and spacers and measure it again.

BBD