Framesaver question

[bjf]

I just got a 1982 Mercian Vincitore, and I suspect I should apply framesaver before I build it up. But what is framesaver, where do I get it, and how do I apply it?

(Photos of the Mercian coming soon, as I will be looking for advice on tape and cable housing colors.)

[JasonF]

Many online vendors sell it, either direct, through Ebay or Amazon. Many think that there are alternatives out there that are cheaper (e.g. Amsoil Heavy Duty Metal Protector, Boeshield T9, etc...) and functionally the same.

This Youtube video can help get you started:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Eve6e8epKQ

[11.4]

Any good bike shop or any mail-order bike supply should have it. To use it, strip the frame so you have access to all the tubes from the ends (i.e., bottom bracket, head tube openings, and seat post access). As much as you can, warm the frame up (at least leave it in the sun for an hour) so the warmth helps the Framesaver flow better. Wear disposable clothing and work outside if it's warm or over a big piece of cardboard in the garage if it isn't -- this stuff makes a mess. Spray into every vent hole and from the bottom bracket into chain stays, seat tube, and down tube, from the head tube into the top tube and down tube, and down the seat tube. Focus especially on the down tube because it usually gets the greatest rust damage. Use the straw extension with the Framesaver can to point the spray in all directions inside the frame and rotate the frame around to flow the Framesaver everywhere. Drain out the excess and let the frame sit for an hour or two so the Framesaver can solidify inside the frame. After it's dry, use mineral spirits on a cloth to clean off the Framesaver that got on the outside of the frame, on the bottom bracket cups, and so on, and then reassemble the frame. You're done.

[stephenmarklay]

Frame Saver is a waxy coating sprayed from an aerosol can. It is marketed by J. P. Weigle.

http://www.amazon.com/Weigles-Bicycle-Frame-Saver-Inhibitor/dp/B0012GO58Y

This is what I use as it cost about half and I think it is exactly the same product.
http://www.amazon.com/CRC-06026-Heavy-Corrosion-Inhibitor/dp/B0000AXYA0/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1463255053&sr=8-2&keywords=corrosion+inhibitor

[bjf]

OK, got that. There is no rust in there that I can see (head tube, BB, top of seat tube), but is there a problem if I put this stuff in on top of rust I can't see?

[11.4]

If you can't see rust you probably can't do much about it. Frames of your origin and vintage sometimes had flux left inside, which could lead to a little corrosion of the metal underneath it. You can rinse the inside of the frame with a hot borax solution and then let it dry exhaustively. In the down tube, you typically get some of the worst rusting because water is always hitting it from the outside, the paint gets some of the hardest beating, and water can migrate from both ends. If you tap it with something metallic and it sounds consistent through the length of the tube, there isn't substantial damage. On the top tube if you have an internal routing, if it has a continuous tube inside it'll be ok; if the brake cable housing is open inside, it's easier to get water into that tube as well. However, I've always found the top tube rusts most from the outside from perspiration around the cable stops and lugs. Again, tap lightly and see if you hear a weak spot. If you do, you may need to be thinking about frame repair rather than Framesaver. Framesaver does a fairly decent job of stopping any rust that's already underway and will also prevent much from happening, even if flux or rust is present.

[bjf]

If you can't see rust you probably can't do much about it. Frames of your origin and vintage sometimes had flux left inside, which could lead to a little corrosion of the metal underneath it. You can rinse the inside of the frame with a hot borax solution and then let it dry exhaustively. In the down tube, you typically get some of the worst rusting because water is always hitting it from the outside, the paint gets some of the hardest beating, and water can migrate from both ends. If you tap it with something metallic and it sounds consistent through the length of the tube, there isn't substantial damage. On the top tube if you have an internal routing, if it has a continuous tube inside it'll be ok; if the brake cable housing is open inside, it's easier to get water into that tube as well. However, I've always found the top tube rusts most from the outside from perspiration around the cable stops and lugs. Again, tap lightly and see if you hear a weak spot. If you do, you may need to be thinking about frame repair rather than Framesaver. Framesaver does a fairly decent job of stopping any rust that's already underway and will also prevent much from happening, even if flux or rust is present.

I didn't mean to suggest that there may be rust inside. The frame is in excellent condition externally, and there is no indication of rust or any other problem. But at age 24, it's theoretically possible that there is some not-visible rust, so I was just asking if there would be any problem using the framesaver if there were any there.

[weisan]

Any good bike shop or any mail-order bike supply should have it. To use it, strip the frame so you have access to all the tubes from the ends (i.e., bottom bracket, head tube openings, and seat post access). As much as you can, warm the frame up (at least leave it in the sun for an hour) so the warmth helps the Framesaver flow better. Wear disposable clothing and work outside if it's warm or over a big piece of cardboard in the garage if it isn't -- this stuff makes a mess. Spray into every vent hole and from the bottom bracket into chain stays, seat tube, and down tube, from the head tube into the top tube and down tube, and down the seat tube. Focus especially on the down tube because it usually gets the greatest rust damage. Use the straw extension with the Framesaver can to point the spray in all directions inside the frame and rotate the frame around to flow the Framesaver everywhere. Drain out the excess and let the frame sit for an hour or two so the Framesaver can solidify inside the frame. After it's dry, use mineral spirits on a cloth to clean off the Framesaver that got on the outside of the frame, on the bottom bracket cups, and so on, and then reassemble the frame. You're done.

Proper.

[tigoat]

That framesaver stuff is pretty much useless, as it is watery and will disappear easily. There are many other better DIY coatings out there that are not bicycle specific. I have used the common polyurethane for deck on my bikes without a problem, as it forms a hard coat of "plastic" and will not dry and wash away easily. With that said, applying a coating is only good if the frame is new and with a clean surface. With a frame that is very old, there is a good chance an oxidation layer already formed on the surface but it may and may not deteriate further. I would just put the bike together and ride the heck out of it without worrying too much about protecting the interior. If you are too concern about rusting, then get a titanium or carbon bike instead.

[bjf]

That framesaver stuff is pretty much useless, as it is watery and will disappear easily. There are many other better DIY coatings out there that are not bicycle specific. I have used the common polyurethane for deck on my bikes without a problem, as it forms a hard coat of "plastic" and will not dry and wash away easily. With that said, applying a coating is only good if the frame is new and with a clean surface. With a frame that is very old, there is a good chance an oxidation layer already formed on the surface but it may and may not deteriate further. I would just put the bike together and ride the heck out of it without worrying too much about protecting the interior. If you are too concern about rusting, then get a titanium or carbon bike instead.

Not particularly concerned about rusting, but I know nothing about the history of this bike and want to take care of it properly. What's the consensus out there? Framesaver or no? (1982 frame)

[paredown]

Not particularly concerned about rusting, but I know nothing about the history of this bike and want to take care of it properly. What's the consensus out there? Framesaver or no? (1982 frame)

I like Framesaver--& I would do it. 11.4's instructions are great--I also like to get into a tube and try and block the ends while rotating the frame--I always imagined that you get better coverage that way (you certainly get more on yourself!).

I don't think it is too liquid or watery, since it does dry down semi hard, but also can be removed with solvent/mineral spirits at some later date if you need to repair the frame.

It is also fairly easy to clean up the outside of the frame & threads when you are done--but do it before it hardens.

BITD we used to use Linseed oil cut with mineral spirits--worked like Framesaver, but was a whole lot messier.

Looking forward to seeing the Vincitore--I'm a big Mercian fan (have a Merican Audax from the 90s that is sitting unbuilt...)

[stephenmarklay]

That framesaver stuff is pretty much useless, as it is watery and will disappear easily. There are many other better DIY coatings out there that are not bicycle specific. I have used the common polyurethane for deck on my bikes without a problem, as it forms a hard coat of "plastic" and will not dry and wash away easily. With that said, applying a coating is only good if the frame is new and with a clean surface. With a frame that is very old, there is a good chance an oxidation layer already formed on the surface but it may and may not deteriate further. I would just put the bike together and ride the heck out of it without worrying too much about protecting the interior. If you are too concern about rusting, then get a titanium or carbon bike instead.


Actually you are wrong. Maybe read up on tests of the product I linked. It was able to protect bare steel submerged in salt water. Your poly won’t

I used it multiple years on motorcycles riding through corrosive road salts and poor conditions and it protected nuts and bolts and all the normal parts that tend to rust.

I coated my motorcycle and had to use WD-40 or and concentrated degreasers to get it off. It does not just come off.

[Ralph]

I have used that product. Will not do so again. Just don't see the point. Frames generally just do not rust out. It's rare to see a frame that rusted thru from the inside.

It happens....but I have seen too many frames left out in the weather for a few years....that after bead blasting and repanting....lasted a lot more years.

[ultraman6970]

Put oil in spray and pretty much will do the same :)

[dbh]

I have used that product. Will not do so again. Just don't see the point. Frames generally just do not rust out. It's rare to see a frame that rusted thru from the inside.

It happens....but I have seen too many frames left out in the weather for a few years....that after bead blasting and repanting....lasted a lot more years.
Try riding a bike through winter in Boston. The corrosive effects of salt can easily rust out an untreated frame in just a few years, esp a bike without fenders. Ask me how i know. No reason not to framesaver a frame.

[stephenmarklay]

Try riding a bike through winter in Boston. The corrosive effects of salt can easily rust out an untreated frame in just a few years, esp a bike without fenders. Ask me how i know. No reason not to framesaver a frame.

If you use the CRC brand it is like $2-3 bucks. No brainer.

[Peter P.]

I believe Framesaver is cosmoline in an aerosol base. It will not evaporate and will stick to the tubes just fine.

I think it will even benefit tubes that already have rust on them because it will prevent oxygen from reaching the metal surface.

There's no reason to not give it a try. One can is plenty for one frame. Try to stay on top of it as it dries and some flows out the tube ends and vent holes; it's a bear to clean off once dry.

[AngryScientist]

i've posted this before, but i use marine corrosion inhibitor, and it works just as well if not better. i used to use it on jet ski and boat parts that were exposed to constant salt water spray and it holds up there well, so inside bicycle tubes is much less demanding of a service. available at any marina or boat store.

not saying the framesaver is bad, just that the marine stuff is easier for me to find.

i own a bunch of steel frames, and blasting the inside of the tubes is always step one of a build for me. no reason NOT to do it.

[11.4]

I differ from the opinion above. I've seen a few frames coated on the inside with paints or urethanes, and they have tended to rust under the coating.

Framesaver is a very thick waxy compound when it dries, and it does a good job of repelling moisture and protecting the metal underneath. Most of the top frame builders use it, and not because Peter developed it. There are some rust protectants that are rumored to be the same compound, but you have to buy a fair amount and lose the convenience of the Framesaver aerosol. Certainly Framesaver does the job well.

For those who really are out to save a few dollars or like to improvise, some people use linseed oil. It does a good job (frankly, most petroleum-based coatings such as Boeshield and Cosmolene -- and Framesaver -- do a good job). I find it's slower to dry and is a bit slower to clean up. Why not support such a good product devised by a top frame builder?

To your question, use Framesaver. It's the standard and if you ever sell the bike it's worth more to say it's treated with Framesaver than to say anything else.

[rustychisel]

I differ from the opinion above. I've seen a few frames coated on the inside with paints or urethanes, and they have tended to rust under the coating.


+ 1 fer shure

[daker13]

Framesaver is a very thick waxy compound when it dries

This. Might not be necessary but I use it, and it's definitely not watery.