DT XR331 Rims: Lighter than XC29, Cheaper than Belgium+, WHERE. IS. THE. LOVE?!

[eBAUMANN]

Before I get into my 2c, lets just do a quick run down of some numbers on a few popular options out there for disc wheel builds these days:

ENVE XC29 - 385g, 24mm wide x 31mm deep - $899/rim

ENVE M50 - 370g, 27mm wide x 28mm deep - $975/rim

Pacenti SL25 - 450g, 24.5mm wide x 26mm deep - $109/rim

HED Belgium+ - 450g, 24mm wide x 23mm deep - $109/rim

Now there might be some other favorites out there but these seem to be the most popular choices when you ask someone "hey, what rims should I use for my new disc cx/gravel/etc wheelset?" Agreed?

Take a look at those numbers and let em sink in for a minute...


Ok, now lets look at the DT XR331...

380g (thats LIGHTER than an xc29 rim)

24mm wide with 20mm inner width (easily comparable there)

18mm deep (shallower compared to competition)

And how much will these sleepers set you back?
A cool $167.22 shipped/pair HERE. (http://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/dt-swiss-disc-mtb-rim-xr-331-32-holes-492456?currency=5&delivery_country=191&varid=492458&gclid=CM6E_6CVzswCFdhahgodrqoFOA)
To put that in perspective, for the price of a pair of ENVE XC29 rims, you could buy TEN PAIRS of XR331's...yea, I know.

Another perk, the decals are pretty under-stated and they are just stickers, so if you don't like em, peel em off.

One downside - they use special DT squorx Pro Head nipples and PHR washers, lucky for you, they are included with the rims.

I have been riding on a set of these rims built to some DT350 hubs with nothing-fancy spokes (for a sub-1600g build) for the past few months and I have to say, I am very impressed. I haven't put in any rough "gravel" miles or trail riding on em yet but they feel very solid overall while capturing a lot of that quick spin-up feeling that I have become accustomed to after riding on primarily carbon wheels for so long.

When building up a disc bike, weight becomes a factor very quickly, even with top shelf stuff it can be hard to keep things reasonable. I have found these rims to be an amazing value so far and I just wanted to put them on your radar because I have yet to see another "gravel grinder" with a pair of these excellent hoops from DT!


http://www.prowheelbuilder.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/small_image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/d/t/dtswissxr-33126indiscbrakeblackrim_12.jpg

Note - if any of you have your own experiences with these rims to share (good or bad), please do so. My experience with them has been relatively limited but I just felt a need to share my enthusiasm for some of my new favorite rims.

It should also go without saying that no, DT did not pay me to post this. :rolleyes:

[weisan]

Nice recommendation, e-Pal.

[DrSpoke]

These are the same rims as used on the XR 1501 Spline One wheels. I've bought a few of these wheelsets (1,510 gr/set) at some pretty good prices and converted them to 11-sp road with a new freehub body and axle end cap. So far they're working great and holding higher pressures. I've been using them on my Ridley X-Trail gravel bike with both Schwalbe Pro-One @ 28c and Schwalbe S-One @ 30c. I've ridden them pretty hard too and they're holding up quite well.

[eBAUMANN]

So far they're working great and holding higher pressures.

Speaking of higher pressures, a handy chart! (https://www.dtswiss.com/Resources/Tech-PDF/Tire_Pressure_Dimension)

[ChrisG]

Are they workable for tubeless?

[Black Dog]

Before I get into my 2c, lets just do a quick run down of some numbers on a few popular options out there for disc wheel builds these days:

ENVE XC29 - 385g, 24mm wide x 31mm deep - $899/rim

ENVE M50 - 370g, 27mm wide x 28mm deep - $975/rim

Pacenti SL25 - 450g, 24.5mm wide x 26mm deep - $109/rim

HED Belgium+ - 450g, 24mm wide x 23mm deep - $109/rim




Our sport has done this:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/MTOkOCKjLxc/hqdefault.jpg

[christian]

These look to be the same rims I have on the X1700 Spline wheelset on my Giant Reign, albeit in 27.5 (584mm ERD) diameter. Since they seem fine with 2 foot drops to flat (about all I am brave enough for), I can only imagine they're fine for gravel grinding.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Wasn't aware of that one. I just bought a pair of Pacenti TL28s (http://www.pacenticycledesign.com/index.php/products/rims/tl28) for a friend's Fargo. 444g, but wider than most of those on your list. Something none of the others share with this rim, though, is eyelets. $88/rim

http://www.pacenticycledesign.com/images/stories/virtuemart/product/t128_rim.jpg

Interesting design here. Do you need a special tool? Did you build the rims up yourself?

https://online2.qbp.com/6SPsvm45/prodl/RM1955-1.jpg

[eBAUMANN]

Are they workable for tubeless?

they are designed for tubeless, yes.

[cinema]

i looked hard at those rims or something similar in their lime up that was crazy light for what it was for my last build. maybe it was the next size up. i really could not trust them at that weight. buy once cry once. i wanted an xc/trail wheelset so i went with semi wide rims anyway (easton arc 27), no reason to go for these skinny dudes with 2.4 tires. they've been great. maybe for limited use ie cross races only i would use them. but i'm 130 lbs and have destroyed 3 a23 rims already, not prepared to go lighter than that with alloy (i know those rims suck but they are still considerably heavier than these)

[eippo1]

Another underrated option would be WTB rims; the Frequency CX has an internal width of 19, which is about the same as most of these wider rims, weighs only 417g, is tubeless and only $80/ rim. I had a set built to the Shimano CX hubs and they are pretty sweet wheels. A boutique hub would get you down to the 1400's.

http://www.wtb.com/products/frequency-cx

[sailorboy]

Impressive rim weight, but are the proprietary nipples heavier than 'standard', thus making up the difference in the final built weight?

they look chunkier in that blow up photo

Not that a handful of grams matter, but if it doesn't make the wheel any stronger (and maybe those nipples do, I dunno) then the advertised lower rim weight is meaningless.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Impressive rim weight, but are the proprietary nipples heavier than 'standard', thus making up the difference in the final built weight?

Not likely. The supplied nipples are aluminum.

[unterhausen]

I'm confused about why you need the nipples, they look like they can be trued from the outside. I have some DT M1800 wheels, they are light and really nice. Almost all my road wheels use DT rims, for mountain I have been using Stan's since they deliver :)

[eBAUMANN]

I'm confused about why you need the nipples, they look like they can be trued from the outside. I have some DT M1800 wheels, they are light and really nice. Almost all my road wheels use DT rims, for mountain I have been using Stan's since they deliver :)

I think it has to do with the real estate inside the rim and the nipple/rim interface...or something.

Here is some more info about the nips (https://www.dtswiss.com/Components/Nipples/DT-Pro-Lock-squorx-Pro-Head), definitely not your standard affair.

Not that a handful of grams matter, but if it doesn't make the wheel any stronger (and maybe those nipples do, I dunno) then the advertised lower rim weight is meaningless.

On the contrary, I have found that a handful of grams can make quite a difference in the overall feel of the bike, especially on a disc build where things can get very heavy very quick if you are not paying attention. Some people dont mind it but personally, im not a big fan of bikes that can be described as a "tank."

For example, a wheelset built with these rims vs belgium+/SL25's will be 140g lighter...thats a 1/3 of a POUND of rotational weight, not to mention you would also be saving $50 in the process.

[ergott]

I would use caution taking a 29er rim and assuming it's okay to run road tubeless tires on them. First, there's usually a significant tension drop due to the tight, tubeless bead. Second, these rims are usually rated for lower pressures. Therefore you can't directly compare the Pacenti SL25 to the DT rim.

[eBAUMANN]

I would use caution taking a 29er rim and assuming it's okay to run road tubeless tires on them. First, there's usually a significant tension drop due to the tight, tubeless bead. Second, these rims are usually rated for lower pressures. Therefore you can't directly compare the Pacenti SL25 to the DT rim.

According to this chart (https://www.dtswiss.com/Resources/Tech-PDF/Tire_Pressure_Dimension), they should be fine up to 113psi with a 28c tire...which is pretty damn high for a 28c tire on a wide rim...I would probably only run like 85-90psi (at most) with that combo on the road, I weight 175-180lbs FWIW.

I have been commuting with them for hundreds of miles now with 32c paselas (with tubes) at around 65-70psi and they have been fantastic, not a single issue.

That said, I would agree that there are better options for ROAD tubeless, I just think its fair to say that the majority of disc rigs being built up these days are more in the "all-road/gravel grinder" vein, sporting tires 32-40c, which these rims would be great for IMO.

[ergott]

According to this chart (https://www.dtswiss.com/Resources/Tech-PDF/Tire_Pressure_Dimension), they should be fine up to 113psi with a 28c tire...which is pretty damn high for a 28c tire on a wide rim...I would probably only run like 85-90psi (at most) with that combo on the road, I weight 175-180lbs FWIW.

Interesting. That's the first alloy mtb rim I've seen with that high of a pressure rating.

[hollowgram5]

Interesting. That's the first alloy mtb rim I've seen with that high of a pressure rating.

I know Enve put out a similar chart for the XC29s a few years back as it became more common for those to be pulled into CX and Road disc duty, but those are carbon.

While not every rim will do it, I have had good success with my Mavic CrossMax 29 (first gen) and Hutchinson Sector 28s. I run them about 80psi; and while it may not be something Mavic advise, I haven't gotten them above 90 ever.

I think 3T even has a chart out on their new Tubeless wheels that gives the max pressure per each tire size, off to dig up a picture..

[issixtoomany]

Built these wheels over the winter, about 600 miles on them now. Compass 42mm tires, tubeless at about 42psi. Very nice so far, no flats, rough roads, fast descents, no problems.


https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1496/26469849955_779c388a04_k.jpg

[owly]

BOR XMD range (333, and 366) might be worth a look at also.

Lower psi ratings though.
The 366 mentions 80psi for a 28-37 tyre.

[oldpotatoe]

I'm confused about why you need the nipples, they look like they can be trued from the outside. I have some DT M1800 wheels, they are light and really nice. Almost all my road wheels use DT rims, for mountain I have been using Stan's since they deliver :)

I think the rim hole is proprietary, so you can only use those nipples and yes, DT spline type tool, true, etc from outside. Really an answer to a not asked question, IMHO, those nipps.

Like DT rims, not like proprietary stuff.

[unterhausen]

yeah, proprietary nipples (and spokes, elsewhere) are a deal breaker for me, that's where the love went.

[issixtoomany]

yeah, proprietary nipples (and spokes, elsewhere) are a deal breaker for me, that's where the love went.

Any 14mm nipple works fine, you just have to use the washers supplied with the rim. The Squorx nipples can be trued externally with a standard tool, the "proprietary" part replaces the slot at the base of the nipple.

[okie1kenobi]

I would use caution taking a 29er rim and assuming it's okay to run road tubeless tires on them. First, there's usually a significant tension drop due to the tight, tubeless bead. Second, these rims are usually rated for lower pressures. Therefore you can't directly compare the Pacenti SL25 to the DT rim.

DT Swiss Disc MTB Rim XR 331 32 Holes – Rims 26"

High-quality alloys and sophisticated profile dimensioning..
Product features

Rim connection: Welded
Size (please select):
26"
27,5"
29"
Brake type: Scheibenbremse
Holes: 32
Eyelet: keine
Outer width: 24 mm
Height: 18 mm
Valve: Presta Ø 6.5 mm
Tire dimension: 1.7" - 2.5"
max. Pressure: 3 Bar
Spokes:
DT competition®
DT aerolite®
DT aero comp®
DT super comp®
max. Spoke tension: 1200 N

From the specs looks like they're rated at 3 bar or 43.5 psi.

[Benneke]

Has anyone tried running Notubes rims as road tubeless? I have a set of Stans Crest rims that I'm thinking of using on my gravel bike, will they be able to handle ~60-70 psi on 30c tires or should I get one of the rims listed here?

[eBAUMANN]

DT Swiss Disc MTB Rim XR 331 32 Holes – Rims 26"

High-quality alloys and sophisticated profile dimensioning..
Product features

Rim connection: Welded
Size (please select):
26"
27,5"
29"
Brake type: Scheibenbremse
Holes: 32
Eyelet: keine
Outer width: 24 mm
Height: 18 mm
Valve: Presta Ø 6.5 mm
Tire dimension: 1.7" - 2.5"
max. Pressure: 3 Bar
Spokes:
DT competition®
DT aerolite®
DT aero comp®
DT super comp®
max. Spoke tension: 1200 N

From the specs looks like they're rated at 3 bar or 43.5 psi.

Based on the 4-500mi ive ridden on em at 65-70psi with 32c tires, I respectfully disagree.

[oldpotatoe]

Any 14mm nipple works fine, you just have to use the washers supplied with the rim. The Squorx nipples can be trued externally with a standard tool, the "proprietary" part replaces the slot at the base of the nipple.

Thanks for the info, I haven't seen one of these in the wild...soooooo, what's the point then?

[issixtoomany]

Thanks for the info, I haven't seen one of these in the wild...soooooo, what's the point then?


I was wondering too, it's sort of like Torx vs slotted screw driver, but you'd mostly just use that interface for a nipple driver when assembling and the old tool works fine. It looks like a machine building kind of thing.

[eBAUMANN]

Thanks for the info, I haven't seen one of these in the wild...soooooo, what's the point then?

As far as tool interfaces go, can we all agree that a star/torx > hex > flat head/philips?

when/if your alloy nipples oxidize and crack or your brass nips get rounded off by the wrong size spoke wrench, it would be nice to have the best possible backup interface waiting for you on the other side, no? personally, if its just a simple matter of replacing a nipple, id rather not cut my potentially pricey and perfectly functional spoke if i dont have to.

bottom line is that it doesn't much matter what you put on the backside there, so long as it works well for its intended purpose...and it really doesn't work much better than a precisely formed star/torx head so why not?

[oldpotatoe]

As far as tool interfaces go, can we all agree that a star/torx > hex > flat head/philips?

when/if your alloy nipples oxidize and crack or your brass nips get rounded off by the wrong size spoke wrench, it would be nice to have the best possible backup interface waiting for you on the other side, no? personally, if its just a simple matter of replacing a nipple, id rather not cut my potentially pricey and perfectly functional spoke if i dont have to.

bottom line is that it doesn't much matter what you put on the backside there, so long as it works well for its intended purpose...and it really doesn't work much better than a precisely formed star/torx head so why not?

Or.....use the proper spoke wrench and/or brass nipples. Take a standard rim hole, change it so ya gotta use a nipple washer and a nipple or a specific nipple.

$20 answer to a $5 question. IMHO.

[eBAUMANN]

Or.....use the proper spoke wrench and/or brass nipples. Take a standard rim hole, change it so ya gotta use a nipple washer and a nipple or a specific nipple.

$20 answer to a $5 question. IMHO.

ENVE has "proprietary" nipples that are .50/ea and you void your warranty if you DONT use them.

Why isn't anyone whining about that?

----

My point is that everyone isn't always working on their own wheels all the time and even if they are, people make mistakes (mechanics and DIY'ers alike), so its nice to have a backup plan that works.

Also, people are not going to stop building wheels with alloy nipples any time soon so we may as well embrace whatever new innovations might arise in order to mitigate the potential downsides of using said material for said nipples.

[issixtoomany]

Take a standard rim hole, change it so ya gotta use a nipple washer and a nipple or a specific nipple.

$20 answer to a $5 question. IMHO.

The nipple washers are mandatory with any nipple, including the Squorx. Seems like a reasonable trade-off given the light weight of the rim, which I appreciate.

[foon]

You can use regular nipples. The included 15mm nipples have the same exposed length as 12mm nipples. They can tolerate slightly longer spokes before bottoming out. You can buy brass version, if you don't like aluminum nipples.

The only downside to the squorx is that you can't use a drill as nipple driver. Takes a little longer to tension and that's about it.

[oldpotatoe]

You can use regular nipples. The included 15mm nipples have the same exposed length as 12mm nipples. They can tolerate slightly longer spokes before bottoming out. You can buy brass version, if you don't like aluminum nipples.

The only downside to the squorx is that you can't use a drill as nipple driver. Takes a little longer to tension and that's about it.

Still seems awfully complicated answer to a simple question of light rim-washers-nipples...oh well..

I'm out.