Close call today

[Tickdoc]

Rode the metric in our annual "tour de tulsa". Haven't seen the numbers yet, but looked last me 700-800 participants, and beautiful weather.

Less than 2 miles in, turning off main road, I see a motorcycle barreling towards us. We were turning in front of Him en mass and he clearly had the right of way.

Called it out, and I turned in front, but I had a good 10 seconds before he reached us. Two or three others behind me also turned and made it. Motorcycle was flashing his lights. About five seconds after I turned... Crash! Such a horrific sound.

There was a sheriff at the turn, but he was just sitting in his truck, not manning traffic.( yes, sheriffs here drive trucks or suv's)


I almost stopped, but decided to stay with the group as it look owed like there was nothing I could do to help.

Heard later both were ok. Rider lost a fingernail, gash on head, and lost a bike. Moto guy ok.

Finished the ride but plenty to talk about during the ride as those around me saw it from behind.

I imagine both could be held at fault because there as plenty of time for a corteous driver to stop. He clearly had the right of way. I bet the sheriff got a talking to as well, for just sitting there and not directing traffic.

Whew! Group rides like that make me nervous simply because you have so many levels/skillsets of riders riding around in a group.

[unterhausen]

I hate group rides. Definitely shared responsibility, there is a legal responsibility not to barrel into a crash even if you have the right of way. So many people have lost sight of that though.

[ultraman6970]

1... group rides are dangerous, at least with the people Ive seen here... is people that doesnt know how to ride in the streets. If you have that problem well... clearly just avoid them.

2... I have to give the motorcycle driver something because looks like the bike riders were doing something wrong, but at the same time as a automobile driver, why in the world this guy did not stop?? I mean it is so easy to let the light vehicle to pass?? Motorcycle driver? an ASS. Guy in the bicycle, you Einstein, look before doing the wrong thing in the road/street.

[livingminimal]

I hate group rides.

This. I want to keep the responsibility of my safety to as few people as possible.
Plus I believe the adage that "Just because we both ride bikes, doesn't mean were going to be friends"

Also: Glad everyone is (mostly) ok.

[Peter P.]

2... I have to give the motorcycle driver something because looks like the bike riders were doing something wrong, but at the same time as a automobile driver, why in the work this guy did not stop?

The motorcyclist didn't stop because he expected to have the right of way, which sounds like he did, and the cyclists behaved in an unpredictable fashion.

As for the cop well; unless he was there to specifically stop traffic for 700 cyclists in groups and dribs and drabs, he probably assumed the same thing the motorcyclist did; that the cyclists would obey the laws of the road which required them to yield to traffic traveling straight.

The cyclists mistakenly thought the road was theirs to play on for the day. Some cyclists had plenty of time to make the turn but as more cyclists made the turn, that time decreased. At the same time, you had cyclists with their brains shut off focusing more on maintaining contact with their group than yielding to the motorcyclist.

Guess who I side with.

[Black Dog]

People in groups rides can become so fixated on staying with the group that they will ignore obvious dangers in order to do so. I see it in group rides all the time. They often become a race where folks are not trying to 'win' but trying so very hard not to 'lose'; that is to say get left behind. It is a strange herd instinct.

[Dead Man]

I only do one group ride out of the year, and its hardcore enough that GENERALLY only attracts pretty switched-on dudes and dudettes. But even at that event, i still see herd-mind actions that make me cringe. Darting out in front of traffic is common.

Sounds like motocyclist had a genuine asshole moment, though. BRAKES, man.

[stephenmarklay]

Wow that could have been really bad.

[ultraman6970]

Thats the thing dead-man... motor-man was an ass but at the same time you can't blame him. It is so easy to just figure that out... press the brake to stop the traffic behind you and let the Einsteins go so they are alive for at least 2 more streets, but thats pretty much me apparently. And under that perspective well... he was an ass...

But heck man... many riders in the street are riding using zero common sense, seen guys riding for many years making rookie mistakes in the streets, you have to stay assertive, and follow the traffic laws, no matter if the other guys dropped you. better be late than flattten.

This is the other detail mentioned, group rides are f.. races. I do understand go full gas in a secondary country road but when you get to suburbs with a lot of traffic just hold it and go quietly. My team we were like 25 guys, never a problem, never fast in downtown, always following traffic rules.

It is complicated not to weight the bicycle rider responsibility in an accident too, we have to be impartial even thought the injured part of the problem was a fellow rider.

[Tickdoc]

Sounds like motocyclist had a genuine asshole moment, though. BRAKES, man.

Yep. Thank god it wasn't a car.

I'll still ride on the group rides. I do like the commeraderie and I accept the risks.

The larger the ride, the more organization it takes to pull things off successfully. Biggest one I have been on was hotter than hell 100. 20,000 cyclists in a town of 18,000, or something like that, and it goes off with hardly a hitch every year. (Well, a few heart attacks, heat strokes, and pileups, but it is well managed.)

Hardest part for me was the rollout, which took about twenty minutes. That and the oppressive heat and wind for the last forty.:eek:

[Fivethumbs]

I had the almost the exact same thing happen to me when I was riding my bike except the group riders had a stop sign. I was riding down the street when I saw the first riders of the group pull out to turn left in front of me. It was okay because they had plenty of time. The problem was the rest of the group riders who just blew the sign. I did not stop because I expected the rest of the people on the group ride to see me and obey the stop sign but they didn't. Fortunately I was able to grab the brakes and veer away and narrowly avoided having a collision with one of the group riders. The guy who almost hit me let out a weak "sorry". Why do so many people on a group ride think that because the people in front of them did not stop that they don't have to stop either?

Everyone has the duty to avoid a collision if possible. But everyone also has the right to base their own actions on the expectation that others are going to obey the law and act as a reasonably prudent person would under the same circumstances.

[weisan]

The reason we ride is so that we can ride another day.

[regularguy412]

As for the cop well; unless he was there to specifically stop traffic for 700 cyclists in groups and dribs and drabs, he probably assumed the same thing the motorcyclist did; that the cyclists would obey the laws of the road which required them to yield to traffic traveling straight.

Guess who I side with.


I'll agree with you. However, my question would be: Why the H-E-double-hockey-sticks to we POST a 'Government Official' there for if not to help prevent issues? Is he there just to call the ambulance if/when something occurs?


I'm no Gov't Official/Police Officer, but I've helped marshal MANY rides and runs. Sure. He might not have been able to keep this one from happening, but when yer out there, yer out there to do a job,,, namely: try to help keep EVERYBODY safe (including the moto guy) regardless of who's right or wrong.
Mike in AR:beer:

[Dead Man]

I did Seattle to Portland last year (first and last time)... Lots of local municiple cops acting as corner marshals.. I noticed a lot of them in different towns standing there not actually managing their corners... I can remember riding up to stop signs with a cop standing there looking at me/us, maybe even with traffic present, and giving no indicator of who should do what.

So i pretty much just acted like the cop wasnt there, and either blew the sign or yielded to traffic, as usual.

[bigbill]

I was doing the Flying Wheels century in the Seattle area a few years back when I was slowing for a four-way stop. The group I was in was all yelling "Stopping" because there was a dump truck to our right at the intersection. We were almost stopped when the dump truck went and it was going to be fine, we were all obeying the law and there was no marshal to direct traffic. A group of 5-6 riders blew past us into the intersection and the last guy got clipped by the dump truck. I'm sure the dump truck driver was looking at the stopped group and didn't expect the others. The clipped rider stayed up but his rear wheel was trashed. He asked for witnesses and was calling the police. Everyone told him he was an idiot and gave our information to the truck driver before rolling on. Never heard back.

[Fivethumbs]

Couple of things...First, the Sheriff's Department may have been asked to just show a presence, i.e. with a black and white present, the speed limit will be observed by motorists and riders won't be harassed by motorists. Second, the deputy probably thought the same thing the motorcyclist did - that the cyclists will obey the law and wait until it is clear and safe to turn left. The majority of law enforcement is reactive in nature.

[oldpotatoe]

I was doing the Flying Wheels century in the Seattle area a few years back when I was slowing for a four-way stop. The group I was in was all yelling "Stopping" because there was a dump truck to our right at the intersection. We were almost stopped when the dump truck went and it was going to be fine, we were all obeying the law and there was no marshal to direct traffic. A group of 5-6 riders blew past us into the intersection and the last guy got clipped by the dump truck. I'm sure the dump truck driver was looking at the stopped group and didn't expect the others. The clipped rider stayed up but his rear wheel was trashed. He asked for witnesses and was calling the police. Everyone told him he was an idiot and gave our information to the truck driver before rolling on. Never heard back.

Yup...

[djdj]

Rode the metric in our annual "tour de tulsa". Haven't seen the numbers yet, but looked last me 700-800 participants, and beautiful weather.

Less than 2 miles in, turning off main road, I see a motorcycle barreling towards us. We were turning in front of Him en mass and he clearly had the right of way.

Called it out, and I turned in front, but I had a good 10 seconds before he reached us. Two or three others behind me also turned and made it. Motorcycle was flashing his lights. About five seconds after I turned... Crash! Such a horrific sound.

There was a sheriff at the turn, but he was just sitting in his truck, not manning traffic.( yes, sheriffs here drive trucks or suv's)


I almost stopped, but decided to stay with the group as it look owed like there was nothing I could do to help.

Heard later both were ok. Rider lost a fingernail, gash on head, and lost a bike. Moto guy ok.

Finished the ride but plenty to talk about during the ride as those around me saw it from behind.

I imagine both could be held at fault because there as plenty of time for a corteous driver to stop. He clearly had the right of way. I bet the sheriff got a talking to as well, for just sitting there and not directing traffic.

Whew! Group rides like that make me nervous simply because you have so many levels/skillsets of riders riding around in a group.

Just curious, based on your user name, are you a medical doctor? I'm not, but I'd like to think I would have stopped to see if there was anything I could do to help. :confused:

[Tickdoc]

Just curious, based on your user name, are you a medical doctor? I'm not, but I'd like to think I would have stopped to see if there was anything I could do to help. :confused:

Ha, no. I know it is deceiving. I used to collect watches and it is an old username from that era.

[OtayBW]

Couple of things...First, the Sheriff's Department may have been asked to just show a presence, i.e. with a black and white present, the speed limit will be observed by motorists and riders won't be harassed by motorists. Second, the deputy probably thought the same thing the motorcyclist did - that the cyclists will obey the law and wait until it is clear and safe to turn left. The majority of law enforcement is reactive in nature.I tend to agree with your first point. Sheriff was probably asked to be there just as a presence, not as a marshall. On your second point, though, it seems very unlikely that a mass group of cyclists will actually obey all traffic laws - especially when you have a mix of folks with little group riding experience. Even among riders who should know better, the law of mass action tends to apply and the train just keeps rolling not matter what....

You really have to choose your 'niche group of riders' carefully in a mass ride and avoid getting swept up by others who can take you out...

[Fivethumbs]

My second point was that the deputy probably expected the group to obey the law, especially with a black and white present. I still think that that was the case. Now whether the deputy's thinking was justified or reasonable, well, that's another issue altogether.