Comparison Legend, Legend ST, Nove

[dzen]

I'm a 190 lb rider in good shape. I ride for enjoyment, socialization, fitness, training, and occasional competition. I lift weights and have packed on quite a bit of muscle to carry up hills.

I am Considering the Legend, Legend ST, and Nove frames.

Any advice out there? I am getting good advice from my shop. Initial discussions based on my interview and budget have me considering these frames. I am just curious what others think. For some reason I have this thing about wanting a 100% ti bike or a mostly ti bike even though it seems I might be better off with a carbon / ti mix.

I want comfort, control, and enough stiffness for reasonable climbing and sprinting response.

Will I get what I want in a Legend Ti, or, a Legend ST? Should I go with a Nove?

Any constructive feedback is appreciated.

Thanks!

[obtuse]

get a legend. it won't be light..but neither are you.

obtuse

[SoCalSteve]

Welcome to the Forum!

You have come to a place where you will get more cycling information than you could have ever thought possible. And, from some of the greatest names in cycling to boot.

As for your choices, all of them are terrific and you will not go wrong with any of those 3 frames. Remember, get fitted by an experienced fitter who will take the time to really listen to what you want out of the bike. Also, make sure that you make a truly informed decision about wheels and tires as they will impact the way the bike rides probably more than anything else.

As for weight, some of the best riding bikes I own are the heaviest. Weight should not be a consideration when you are deciding on a frame, wheels, components, etc.

As for the three choices, mine would be the Legend Ti with the ST rear end. I love my Ottrott ST and I cannot imagine that you will find a nicer bike than a Legend with the ST rear end.

Ask us again about wheels, tires, saddles, etc when you get to that place and you are ready to purchase those.

Again, welcome to a great community!

Steve

PS: Make sure that you get a Serotta F3 fork to go along with your Serotta frame...They are great forks!

[flydhest]

I'm about your size, perhaps a bit heavier at times, definitely a bit lighter at times, I ride a 60.

Of the three, if it were my money, I'd get a Legend and some really nice wheels. Legends are the Ti bike for big guys. Mine is great. I've ridden Ottrotts and Legend STs. They are great bikes. The Nove, I assume, is as well. For the money, however, I think the Legend is hard to beat in that group of three and coupled with some great wheels, it will be more bike than could be necessary.

If the Nove rides like an Ottrott, then (in very general terms as you can ask for customizing) it will be a bit more nimble or quick feeling while the Legend will feel fast. If that contrast makes any sense, quick versus fast, that's how the two bikes feel to me. The ST stays (not on the Nove) are nice, but I'm unconvinced they are worth the upgrade. Others swear by it.

That said, my advice is worth roughly twice what you paid for it.

[Sandy]

I think you nailed the Ottrott. It seems to give a lighter, livelier, quicker responding, and more nimble feel than the other Serottas that I have ridden. I also agree that the ST rear may not be much or any improvement over an all ti rear. A Legend would probably be a great choice.



Sandy

[93legendti]

I have a Legend, Ottrott and Ottrott ST. I prefer the ST rear end. I feel it is smoother and more comfortable. You can never go wrong with a Legend. My Legend is 13 years old and it still rides great. I haven't ridden a Nove, so I can't offer you help there.

[Skrawny]

Welcome dzen!
I'm a small guy and ride a Legend. My legend is built fairly stiff and climbs like a billy-goat on speed. I have spent quality time on a Legend ST, however, and if I were to do it again I'd get the ST. It smooths out the road buzz a little more and seems to carve a little better on the corners.
Will you be able to do any test-rides yourself?
-s

[000050]

I ride a Nove, i am 230 race weight more in the off season. I love my Nove, I have owned 2-

1 gen lost to a garage interaction comfy but not confidence inspiring

2 gen with an f3 fork upgrade (mandatory) which in corporates swaged tubes ala ottrott. is smooth fast sprints really well. I run a 55 in the flats and can stand on the pedals with everything I have and the bike just squirts ahead.

As for cornering-I used to ride ducatis and this bike inspires later and later breaking set ups for tighter turns and faster entry.

I have raced my Nove in Ironman, crits and road races. nothing it can't do excepts get me to the podium. I have to do that

K

[Climb01742]

have you read the thread about whether the nove messes with the serotta pecking order? there are some useful opinions there. good luck. a well made serotta is hard to beat.

[dzen]

Can anyone comment on Ti ride quality and climbing ability for a rider at my weight?

What are your thoughts on the ST rear end?

Thanks for all the info and opinions. I am following the Nove pecking order thread.

I know it's hard to compare bikes made of different materials. I have some built in minimal bias against carbon fiber. The idea of a carbon fiber airplane scares the hell out of me. The idea of a carbon fiber bike descending not so much, but that might help you understand my possibly questionable perspective.

[Blastinbob]

You say, "I might be better off with a carbon / ti mix". What draws you to this conclusion?

I have a compact Legend and an Ottrott St. While the Ottrott is my favorite bike but I ride the Legend more often. IMO the difference between the ST and non ST is less than the difference between clinchers and good tubular tires.

Get the F3 8.5, big guy approved! 6.5 was had too much forward and back flex for me, I like a solid front end but not harsh.

[DavidK]

I like a solid front end but not harsh.


I have trouble reading this forum. I see innuendo everywhere.

[dzen]

I might be better off with a carbon / ti mix.

I got the impression it would be a little stiffer, thus Id be happier climbing.

I live in a valley, I have to climb to get anyplace. (Which I enjoy, but it would be nice to do it a little easier).

Before I did my fitting, or talked to the shop about it, I was basically considering the Legend, and Concours, nothing else.

I guess some of my responses to the interview questions led them to think Nove for me.

I listed ride comfort first, climbing ability second, confidence descending and cornering third, and sprinting ability fourth, during my interview as things I wanted from a bike. Comfort first, confidence and control, then, power transfer.

I also made it clear that while the world seems sold on carbon, I tend to be slow to warm up to some new technologies.

[dzen]

I will be able to test a Nove close to my size over a weekend (this or next).

If I want to test a Legend I am going to have to find someone with a smaller size. I can fit on a 49-53 easily enough.

[eddief]

"Weight should not be a consideration when you are deciding on a frame, wheels, components, etc."

Ride a bike that weighs let's say 23 lbs and then ride one that weighs 17 lbs and then get back to me and let me know if there is not a difference when you start climbing out of the saddle.

I've got bikes in all weight ranges except for super light. I like them all but my lightest is my OCR C and it definitely stands out in its own way due to material and weight. I don't care what the anti-material bogeymen say.

[Richard]

I have a 53x53 Legend ST built up with a 130 stem in the Hudson Valley that you could ride if you are in the area (some parts of CT are an hour and a half away). Heck, if you love it you could make me an offer on the frame/fork/hs and save enough money to consider another bike, too.

[BoulderGeek]

I've only had my Nove for two weeks, so I am still learning and getting my ergos right.

I'm 212lbs, and 6' (trying to get down to 200 by the end of August for my next tri; who knows...).

I have a 58cm Nove with the F3 8.5 fork. It is spectacular, to me. Vastly improved feel in the BB and rear triangle compared to my old Litespeed Tuscany. Worlds apart. As others have said, out of the saddle it doesn't sway or flex, it just puts the power in transfer mode.

My prior bike was a handbuilt Easton SC7000 scandium alloy bike in 73/73 classic geometry. I thought that was all I could want, and really didn't see how the Nove would be justified as an upgrade, given my riding. Boy, was I wrong.

I am sure that a Legend would also be a fantastic ride. I bought my Nove in stock geometry out of a demo fleet. Were I to pay for the full custom Serotta treatment, I am guessing that I would go for a Legend Ti for the longevity factor.

I was also skeptical about the sloping compact frame, compared to classic. I truly can't feel any difference, except that when really thrashing side to side out of the saddle, the TT doesn't brush my legs.

I thought that scandium and carbon on Open Pros was as plush as I could ever want, while staying stiff enough. Again, the Nove proved my preconceptions wrong, wrong, wrong. As I put it when a friend asked how I liked it, it feels like there is a little fluid bearing at each lug juncture.

I am also an avid motorcyclist, and in those terms, it really does feel like a Ducati 900SS with the full Ohlins suspension dialled in. A little weight shift to the inside with some microscopic countersteering, and it just carves right through the turn. It's more akin to carving a turn on a sharp snowboard than steering a mass produced bicycle.

[dbrk]

Recently I made a comparable decision though I confess not to have considered the Nove as seriously as the Legend. I think the Legend is pretty much "perfected", a work that has progressed to the point where we are likely to see only incremental changes. I know that might be an overstatement from a company that has always improved (meliora!!) with innovation and invention but this latest Legend seems to have nailed titanium to it's near-last iteration. Titanium has truly improved its ride since the middle 90s, significantly, and it's hard to imagine it better.

I chose the ultra-classic set up (and that would be normal for me): level top tube, simple ti stays. I've ridden the ST stays on an Ottrott and liked the feel a lot but not enough to change the look and feel of the bike when it was time to choose. There are so many ways these bikes can be designed and built. Think about what will wear on your eyes and what you want from the ride. Articulate that as clearly and as thoughtfully as you can. Then once you are sure you have made your own input as lucid as possible and considered your desires in terms of ride and aesthetics, allow Serotta to do their part and relax, 'cause they make what you ask for.

dbrk

[Climb01742]

I have a compact Legend and an Ottrott St. While the Ottrott is my favorite bike but I ride the Legend more often.

bob, that's an intriguing statement. would you mind saying why? no argument here, just mucho curiousity. thanks very much. :beer:

[davids]

I rode lots of bikes before buying my Nove. My two favorites were the all-Ti Fierte and the Nove, so I'd steer you towards the all-Ti Legend (or an all-Ti Concours with a really nice paint job!) or the Nove. And based on your desire for comfort, I think you'd be very happy with the Nove!

Rather than re-hash my experience, I'll ask you to click here (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=151530&postcount=1) and here (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=151639&postcount=8).

[BoulderGeek]

Gosh, that is a sharp one, David.

Yeah, I saw the other threads. Just wanted to say it again.

I like the white carbon look, as on the Bianchi carbon frames.

[vaxn8r]

I own a Legend and have certain opinions. Click on link two to see them. However, you have to know that Ben can build a Legend ultra stiff or not so stiff. You have to be completely honest with what you want this bike to do. If you are a flat out racer go ahead and get the stiffest bike you can for eeking every last percentage on that sprint. I am glad mine is not overbuilt every time I ride it. Mine is not ST and I still am amazed at how smooth it rides. "All day man!" I still race but 99% of my rides are not races and how much of my race is for sprinting anyway? Not enough to compromise the bike for what I want out of it. As for climbing, mine climbs as well as any bike I've owned. It certainly isn't slowing me down!

If you get a Legend don't overbuild it. DBRK can confirm this. I think Climb can as well. The Legend is such a sweet bike. I've ridden an Ottrott and it's sweet too in it's own right. It's also a more aggressive look as is the Nove. How a bike looks is important to me too and the Legend non ST is a classic beauty.

[Blastinbob]

bob, that's an intriguing statement. would you mind saying why? no argument here, just mucho curiousity. thanks very much. :beer:
I commute 4 to 6 days a week, my Legend is my go anywhere no paint utility bike.

[SoCalSteve]

I commute 4 to 6 days a week, my Legend is my go anywhere no paint utility bike.

That's exactly why I bought and built the Axiom. My Commuter/Beater bike.


Great minds think alike!

Steve

[dzen]

I appreciate all the comments and opinions. Honestly I am still not much closer to a decision. I am comfortable that regardless of the choice I make I will be happy with a custom serotta.

[SoCalSteve]

I appreciate all the comments and opinions. Honestly I am still not much closer to a decision. I am comfortable that regardless of the choice I make I will be happy with a custom serotta.

That says it all! (ok, maybe not all, but lots).

Good luck with whatever you chose,

Steve

[pdxmech13]

It is far and away been the
standard of all titanium bikes
that have ever been built.
you would be owning a timeless
bicycle that will exceed your
every expectations throughout
the years.

IMHO ATMO ATAFJ

I do own one btw :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

[dzen]

Which do you own? ST or standard.

I like the ida of the ST rear end, but I hate the idea of breaking the line of the bike with the carbon rear end. Makes me almost want to paint the whole thing, which seems a shame. I really like the half paint, half polish look.

[dzen]

Oh and its been raining all weekend. I will try to demo the Nove over next weekend.