Fair price for a NOS Mapei Colnago C40?

[rallizes]

Any idea what something like this might go for?

[CNY rider]

Worthless.
Forward to me for proper disposal.:beer:

[azrider]

Any idea what something like this might go for?

depends on size :beer:

[rallizes]

depends on size :beer:

let's say a 56cm TT

[bluesea]

Any idea what something like this might go for?



There probably can be no fair price for such a frame, provided it's bonafide NOS. :banana:

[rallizes]

looks like this

[texbike]

Complete bike or just the frameset? Was it a team bike or just in the team colors?

Regardless, it seems that either would essentially be priceless given the demand for Mapei C40s and the rarity of finding a NOS example. However, a frameset would probably be worth $1500-$2000.

Let me know if you decide to pass on it... :)

EDIT - is that a picture of the actual bike that you're considering?

Texbike

[azrider]

I was going to say $1800-$2000

[rallizes]

Yes, that is the frameset. The paint appears to be completely unblemished.
It appears to have never been built up.

Complete bike or just the frameset? Was it a team bike or just in the team colors?

Regardless, it seems that either would essentially be priceless given the demand for Mapei C40s and the rarity of finding a NOS example. However, a frameset would probably be worth $1500-$2000.

Let me know if you decide to pass on it... :)

EDIT - is that a picture of the actual bike that you're considering?

Texbike

[beeatnik]

$2500 and walk away with a smile

[Exonerv]

I'd factor in the cost of the Colnago 28.0 seatpost. Can be hard to find and pricy when you do. Unless you plan to shim it of course...

[Charles M]

Are there more than 1 available in your size?

If not, the fair price is pretty much what ever the seller is willing to take.

The buyer won't care about our expert opinion on it's value (and shouldnt).

[ultraman6970]

NOS??? a nos c40 was offered here for 1300 and nobody picked it up, I dont remember if it was a mapei or a rabobank one but either way.

Seen used c40 frames go here for 650 bucks.

One thing is for sure, you cant use ebay to appraise a colnago too much unless is like a full bike, all the ebay frames are overpriced for a lot.

[Black Dog]

What is it worth to you? If the cost is equal to your desire to own this frame then buy it.

[fuzzalow]

I have never bought a pre-owned bike other than a 70's DeRosa bought as a collector piece. So I can opine here because I don't know or care ding about playing the pre-owned market.

Talkin' about NOS has nothing to do with "fair price" as if there is an effective discount in force for how this bike frame should be priced. It is a new frame - there is no discount in force and effect. If anything, it can be priced at a premium to what this frame/fork sold for as new back in the mid-2000's because it is a NOS frame with the hindsight of being coveted and revered as a high point in carbon racebike development.

Forget the nonsense of it being an older carbon frame because there is nothing from the big-box-bike mass market manufacturers that can lay a glove on a Colnago C-40. All the so-called progress in technology over 15 years is immaterial to what makes a great bike except they won't tell you that because what they market and sell isn't a Colnago.

Brass tacks? I think this bike frame is effectively priced at $3,500 and up. NOS ain't chump change.

[KJMUNC]

NOS ain't chump change.

Yep, what he said^^

It's only NOS once, and for someone who values that, the price is likely significantly higher than a used version, even in nice condition.

If you've been given a price of less than $2k I'd sell your kidney and run with that frame before someone else sniffs it out.

[bobswire]

Unless you are a collector,bear in mind once it's built up it will most likely lose half of its once perceived overpriced value. If you're the seller,good on you but if you are the buyer,well a fool and his money....;) Oh and keep your kidney it's only bicycle.

[djdj]

Agreed. Saw one on eBay that was near mint, in the same color way, go for a buy it now price of less than a grand several months ago. It was a 54 or 55 iirc.

[El Chaba]

I'm with Fuzzalow, but I'll raise him a bit. That frame is very fair at $4000. The late C40 was the high point. If it is priced less, it is a bargain.

[happycampyer]

I could tell you that it's worth $6,000, but unless I'm actually willing to pay $6,000, the number is pure fantasy. Several years ago I bought an NOS Extreme Power, and was willing to pay a premium over the going rate for a used frame because I knew that the frame and fork had not been abused, damaged, etc. So I knew that by cutting the steerer, building it up and riding it once, I was going to lose hundreds of dollars. But the price was still less than half of the price of what EP's fetched new.

For a NOS C-40 in a rare and desireable paint scheme, and in a middle-range size with a lot of demand, the relative value goes up. Since few similar frames come on the market, it's hard to discern what the "market" price is for it. But used ones do, so the question becomes, how much of a premium are you (or is anyone else) willing to pay over a used frame? 1.5x? 2x?

I would argue that a person who intends to build it and ride it (and therefore knowing that any premium paid will almost instantly be lost once it's built and ridden) is willing to pay less for it than a person who fetishizes the frame and wants to collect it, in hopes that it will increase in value. This is where the valuation of collectible things (or potentially collectible things) diverges from consumable things. It's hard to say whether an NOS Mapei C-40 will increase in value, but I would argue that anyone who intends to ride it probably won't be willing to pay more than, say $2K for it (and even that may be a stretch), whereas those that fetishize it will be willing to pay more.

[christian]

I like it. I would ride it if I bought it. As such, I wouldn't pay more than $1500. So, what Happycampyer said.

[54ny77]

I would buy it, mount it suspended from ceiling on clear fishing line in front of a 55" flat screen t.v. playing endless video loops of the Tuscany hillside and Italian opera in the background.

And sit there watching it all while eating a giant bowl of pasta and enjoying a nice Chianti.

My bid is a million Lira.

[Onno]

Somebody help out an old fart: what the hell does NOS stand for? It appears to mean that it's not been built up, or never used, or new, but I can't figure out the letters, and I've been thinking about it for a whole 2 or 3 minutes!:banana:

Some possibilities I've come up with:
Not Old ****
New Old ****
New Out of Stock
New Original Stuff
Never On Sale
Not On Sale
No No No
Nice Oval Sexy

[54ny77]

NOS makes you go fast.

[edit: picture deleted out of deference for the disputatious.]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-D0hfss_qyik/T0RzVB5-MSI/AAAAAAAAABU/w2TXnuggEfo/s1600/Church+lady.png

[Black Dog]

Somebody help out an old fart: what the hell does NOS stand for? It appears to mean that it's not been built up, or never used, or new, but I can't figure out the letters, and I've been thinking about it for a whole 2 or 3 minutes!:banana:

Some possibilities I've come up with:
Not Old ****
New Old ****
New Out of Stock
New Original Stuff
Never On Sale
Not On Sale
No No No
Nice Oval Sexy


or.... New Old Stock

[texbike]

I would buy it, mount it suspended from ceiling on clear fishing line in front of a 55" flat screen t.v. playing endless video loops of the Tuscany hillside and Italian opera in the background.

And sit there watching it all while eating a giant bowl of pasta and enjoying a nice Chianti.

My bid is a million Lira.

Awesome! :)



http://fcdn.mtbr.com/attachments/29er-bikes/131065d1137019143-what-does-nos-mean-turbojay.jpg

Some things should never be seen. This is one of them!

As for this C40, I have a minty 7700 Team-Issue groupset that would be right at home on this thing. I would ride the hell out of it (well, as much as my out-of-shape, old azz could...).

Rallizes, what's the scoop? Do you already have it? If not, are you going to buy it? What are they asking for it?

Texbike

[fuzzalow]

Interesting to hear various points of view that, to me, are divided into talking about two different things:
a discussion and points made about pricing and asking price, and
Self anecdotes pertaining to what you, or somebody like you, is willing or desires to pay for the OP item under discussion.

The first bullet is talking to what a potential buyer might come up against in dealing with expectations and structure of NOS goods. The second bullet is lamenting over pricing over a misguided expectation for pricing based on what is desired - yeah everybody wants to get good stuff for a song...good luck with that.

To be honest, I dislike the snarky kinda responses aimed at persons that may choose to spend their money in a way different from one's own - it sounds like jealousy although I couldn't care less how somebody feels about how somebody else spends money. I dislike the snark because it reads more like a senseless complaint in not having things the way you want it even if there is no basis in reality for actually having it in the way imagined.

If you're the seller,good on you but if you are the buyer,well a fool and his money....;)
Well, that fool somehow figured out how to get that money to begin with.

I could tell you that it's worth $6,000, but unless I'm actually willing to pay $6,000, the number is pure fantasy.

In the pricing of goods, as in many aspects of life: from the sublime to the ridiculous is but a step. In fairness, putting up $6k for an asking price is a easier target for ridicule and is as equally flawed from a seller's perspective as is a buyer's hope that this frame should be $1k.

[tv_vt]

What the ****, 54ny77, is that picture really necessary? How about editing your post and deleting that crap?

[Fishbike]

Around $1500 -- $1800 is probably fair market value given that it's Mapei. Some, including yours truly, might pay a little more. Anything less is a good deal on a great frame. I paid about $1200 for my C40 in used but very good condition.

[El Chaba]

There are at least three things that qualify this frame for a significant premium over most c40's that may sell on the second hand market at lower prices...
*It is NOS
*It is one of the most desirable versions of the C40
*It is the most iconic and sought after paint scheme for the C40

[beeatnik]

There are at least three things that qualify this frame for a significant premium over most c40's that may sell on the second hand market at lower prices...
*It is NOS
*It is one of the most desirable versions of the C40
*It is the most iconic and sought after paint scheme for the C40

esto

a new C59 Mapei would probably grab around 3 large on ebay. this is nicer.

to value this bika, one has to think as a Colnago cat. no better carbon than Colnago, end of story (at least that's what we Colnago dorks believe)

[Toon Raider]

I allign with previous post circa $3500us is realistic. I have a (used)C50 in PR00 which is fantastic, and I have had offers on at around $2200 - 2500. But a C40 is better, and that paint scheme really is a bit of a "signature" .

Alan

[oldguy00]

I'm thinking no more than 1500.

But further....how does a NOS C40 even exist? Seems kind of hard to believe. Sure it isn't lightly used and/or a repaint?

[RedRider]

Or you could just get a Mapei C-59...

[El Chaba]

On a related note...I got a stern warning via PM from an admin on this forum back when it was a Serotta forum...The offense? Upon the introduction of the $8000 Meivici, it was suggested that it was WAY overpriced...and it was....In its defense, people were pointing out that it had a lifetime warranty (try making a claim now....) I suggested that one could buy TWO Colnago c40's at the time-the most proven carbon frame of all time....leave one in the box as a warranty replacement if you wanted and at the price for which they were selling in the day, you could still have enough left over for a set of Mavic Cosmic Carbones...

[krhea]

I'm thinking no more than 1500.

But further....how does a NOS C40 even exist? Seems kind of hard to believe. Sure it isn't lightly used and/or a repaint?

"Oldguy", Not hard to believe in the least. I have numerous NOS road bikes in the stable and some MUCH older then a C40.

As a freakish long-time collector I see numerous NOS bikes/frames available for sale each month. Barn/garage finds, storage unit discoveries, other collectors selling pieces, bike shops that have set abandon for years that are finally being purchased and inventory sold etc. A trip to Europe and a search of tiny bike shops will uncover incredible NOS gems in back rooms, hanging from ceilings and in basement storage areas that have been long forgotten.

Here's a GIOS I sold recently that had been in my collection for probably 15yrs, completely NOS and much older then that C40.
The back story: Good friend of mine has been buying storage units in Florida since WAY before it became "the thing". He knew I was into photography and cycling and whenever he scored a unit containing either he'd contact me and I'd help him "appraise" the inventory. The pay-back was, I got first option to buy anything and everything if I wanted to. He purchased a tiny storage unit and called saying it contained a bunch of bikes still in shipping boxes, never opened. I ask him to email details on what the tags on the boxes said so I could try and figure out what they were, dept store junk or perhaps the "gold at the end of the rainbow". Needless to say, it was the later...I forget how many cases but 10-15 if I remember correctly. Incredible bikes. He paid $200 for the unit! As all of us collectors say, "They're out there, ya just gotta find them...". Pertains to about anything and everything.

The GIOS:
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5752/20527238703_e836e685a1_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/xgVsUF)IMG_6713 (https://flic.kr/p/xgVsUF) by KRhea FrzFrmFoto (https://www.flickr.com/photos/krheapvpics/), on Flickr

[54ny77]

Oh my, that's tremendous.

"Oldguy", Not hard to believe in the least. I have numerous NOS road bikes in the stable and some MUCH older then a C40.

As a freakish long-time collector I see numerous NOS bikes/frames available for sale each month. Barn/garage finds, storage unit discoveries, other collectors selling pieces, bike shops that have set abandon for years that are finally being purchased and inventory sold etc. A trip to Europe and a search of tiny bike shops will uncover incredible NOS gems in back rooms, hanging from ceilings and in basement storage areas that have been long forgotten.

Here's a GIOS I sold recently that had been in my collection for probably 15yrs, completely NOS and much older then that C40.
The back story: Good friend of mine has been buying storage units in Florida since WAY before it became "the thing". He knew I was into photography and cycling and whenever he scored a unit containing either he'd contact me and I'd help him "appraise" the inventory. The pay-back was, I got first option to buy anything and everything if I wanted to. He purchased a tiny storage unit and called saying it contained a bunch of bikes still in shipping boxes, never opened. I ask him to email details on what the tags on the boxes said so I could try and figure out what they were, dept store junk or perhaps the "gold at the end of the rainbow". Needless to say, it was the later...I forget how many cases but 10-15 if I remember correctly. Incredible bikes. He paid $200 for the unit! As all of us collectors say, "They're out there, ya just gotta find them...". Pertains to about anything and everything.

The GIOS:
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5752/20527238703_e836e685a1_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/xgVsUF)IMG_6713 (https://flic.kr/p/xgVsUF) by KRhea FrzFrmFoto (https://www.flickr.com/photos/krheapvpics/), on Flickr

[ultraman6970]

One of my friends sold one like a year ago, still in the polystyrene box, actually when he sold was the 1st time the box got open. Sick.

My next colnago has to be one of those c59s with the cubes paint job... the question is to find one, second question, where do i get the money :p

Oldguy, there's still NOS frames moving around but as happens with cars, at the time of pricing them you have to factor the age of the bike anyways. Is like trying to get somebody to pay 50.000 bucks for a 70s 4 doors diesel mecedez, no matter how new it is, it wont bring 50.000 bucks ever. So far I know one c40 brand new in the box, so there are still around.

[Satellite]

I'd factor in the cost of the Colnago 28.0 seatpost. Can be hard to find and pricy when you do. Unless you plan to shim it of course...

I just bought a spare 28.0 Colnago Seatpost from eBay New Old Stock (NOS) from Italy for $150. Came super fast and is in perfect shape. I don't know where the seller is getting all of them from but he relisted another one as soon as someone hits the buy-it-now button.

But typically you are right I have seen old beat up 28.0 post selling on eBay for $300 plus dollars. I am tempted to buy a bunch from the guy on eBay and just hang on to them. Sell them years later and get a NOS C-70 after the C-90's are out. LOL.

I paid top dollar for NOS D/A 7810 pedals right here on Paceline. My Moots VaMoots SL is the only bike I ever bought brand new. At the time I used Mountain Pedals on it. When I finally came to my right mind and wanted to switch over to road pedals I wanted period correct pedals. In my simpleton mind I need to only put new parts on my VaMoots SL so I had to pay a premium to get NOS pedals. Then I clipped in once and ruined the NOS portion of the purchase. Now you can't tell they are just a beat up as the rest of the bike.

When ever I need something new on the VaMoots SL those parts get handed down to my other bikes. Luckly it doesn't happen very often. I did get a New Brooks limited Swallow's Ti saddle so the Fizik Alainte is going on the C-50.

Back on topic, the NOS D/A Pedals were a 100% premium to me I paid twice what I could get a good used pair of 7810 pedals for.

[RedRider]

So... on the subject of Colnago C-40s... what would a Limited Gold Edition with full Campagnolo Record, Colnago Carbon wheels, with the brochure, watch and cap be worth?

[ultraman6970]

Haven't done the test yet because i do not have a 27.2 carbon seatpost moving around. But the fit of those 28s is really tight in the frames, that I was thinking that maybe with 2 or 3 heavy coats of clear coat you can make it up for the 0.4 mm needed w/o any problems. Im talking about car grade polyurethane ok? I doubt rattle can from H/D will stand the abuse, neither get thick enough.

[Satellite]

Haven't done the test yet because i do not have a 27.2 carbon seatpost moving around. But the fit of those 28s is really tight in the frames, that I was thinking that maybe with 2 or 3 heavy coats of clear coat you can make it up for the 0.4 mm needed w/o any problems. Im talking about car grade polyurethane ok? I doubt rattle can from H/D will stand the abuse, neither get thick enough.

Why NOT just buy the 28.0 NOS Carbon Colnago post off of eBay and be done? $150 seems super reasonable to me. Other carbon seatposts are much more expensive. I bought one just to have an extra insurance.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-VINTAGE-COLNAGO-CARBON-SEAT-POST-28-00mm-x-250-mm-206-grams-C40-C50-/172192724986?hash=item28177c77fa:g:hQ8AAOSwVL1V-9ep

You can also find the shims to convert it down to 27.2 then your seatpost selection is limitless. Heck I might buy one of those just to have for even more insurance. Thompson also made a limited run of 28.0 Seatpost they come up from time to time if aluminum is your thing.

[cadence90]

The GIOS:
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5752/20527238703_e836e685a1_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/xgVsUF)
Beautiful.

That makes me pine for the old days, eagerly awaiting my Excel Sports catalog in the mail.

[R3awak3n]

@satellite you will probably sell that frame before you use that 28mm post. but don't worry I do that too, pile parts that I think I might need in the future. A huge waste of money but what can we do :D

[Satellite]

@satellite you will probably sell that frame before you use that 28mm post. but don't worry I do that too, pile parts that I think I might need in the future. A huge waste of money but what can we do :D

LOL you don't know me very well, never sold a bike. Okay NOT true but close to true.

But you are right the garage is full of insurance policies, especially drive train parts. Maybe just maybe if I actually rode my bike instead of just talking about them on Paceline then I would need the drive train components at a higher frequency.

Anyways to the OP buy the NOS C40 already, you know you want it price be damned.

[cadence90]

I just bought a spare 28.0 Colnago Seatpost from eBay New Old Stock (NOS) from Italy for $150. Came super fast and is in perfect shape. I don't know where the seller is getting all of them from but he relisted another one as soon as someone hits the buy-it-now button.
If you got it where I think you did, that shop is pretty good. He's near the Bergamo manufacturing "hub", and I think has some connection to PMP, WR Compositi, etc.

[ultraman6970]

I do have spares too :p

I was just thinking at loud since the difference is not that big at all, well can be fixed using extra clear coat :P

I even a few months ago found 28.0 (or really close) carbon tubing for sale too.



Why NOT just buy the 28.0 NOS Carbon Colnago post off of eBay and be done? $150 seems super reasonable to me. Other carbon seatposts are much more expensive. I bought one just to have an extra insurance.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-VINTAGE-COLNAGO-CARBON-SEAT-POST-28-00mm-x-250-mm-206-grams-C40-C50-/172192724986?hash=item28177c77fa:g:hQ8AAOSwVL1V-9ep

You can also find the shims to convert it down to 27.2 then your seatpost selection is limitless. Heck I might buy one of those just to have for even more insurance. Thompson also made a limited run of 28.0 Seatpost they come up from time to time if aluminum is your thing.

[Satellite]

I do have spares too :p

I was just thinking at loud since the difference is not that big at all, well can be fixed using extra clear coat :P

I even a few months ago found 28.0 (or really close) carbon tubing for sale too.

What would you do with the carbon tubing? Some how press the seat post head back into the tube? Is it the same ID and OD as the Colnago Seat post stock?

[ultraman6970]

Was the same, if not thicker, I dont even remember where I founf that thing Hmm.. gonna have to look again :/

A bunch of broken and damaged of those seatposts moving around, thats why I looked into the tube at some point just because at some point will be impossible to find a seatpost in that size.

Even some people dont like the clamp mechanism that much, if the tube is available well is posible to make one with the clamp you like. Easier to say it than get it done tho.

[Satellite]

Was the same, if not thicker, I dont even remember where I founf that thing Hmm.. gonna have to look again :/

A bunch of broken and damaged of those seatposts moving around, thats why I looked into the tube at some point just because at some point will be impossible to find a seatpost in that size.

Even some people dont like the clamp mechanism that much, if the tube is available well is posible to make one with the clamp you like. Easier to say it than get it done tho.

I think the version selling on eBay were the over built seat post and not prone to breaking. Colnago had a different post that would break even when using a torque wrench to exact specs. I forget who manufactured them? My C50 came with the one linked and the guy I got it from had no mechanical skill so if he didn't break the seat post in the 10 plus years he owned it I think I will be alright. Although I am a fatty and the previous owner wasn't.

[ultraman6970]

Well, when you go close to 200 no carbon seatpost will be as solid as a campy aluminum specially when you run a lot of seatback and like to spin.

Did not know about different editions of that seatpost.

[Satellite]

Well, when you go close to 200 no carbon seatpost will be as solid as a campy aluminum specially when you run a lot of seatback and like to spin.

Did not know about different editions of that seatpost.

It is an entirely different Colnago Seat post in 28.0 to my knowledge this version has been rock solid. But I am no Colnago expert I just acquired my C50 in Oct and have yet to even ride it because I was getting it restored!

[El Chaba]

In my experience, the GOOD Colnago seatpost was made by Selcof...It's a 28.0 version of this post with Colnago graphics. I have also seen a few with the Selcof branding as well.

[pdmtong]

What is it worth to you? If the cost is equal to your desire to own this frame then buy it.



I'm with black dog on this. If you want it and the price fits your budget then that's the price.

You are wondering if you are overpaying.

That only matters if you plan to sell it.

If this is a holy grail item for you step up and send funds.

It's not like these things in great shape used show up all the time. And here is one brand new.

How much is the seller asking?

[rallizes]

Seller isn't sure if he is selling.

But I've been talking to him...

Time will tell.


I'm with black dog on this. If you want it and the price fits your budget then that's the price.

You are wondering if you are overpaying.

That only matters if you plan to sell it.

If this is a holy grail item for you step up and send funds.

It's not like these things in great shape used show up all the time. And here is one brand new.

How much is the seller asking?

[fuzzalow]

Seller isn't sure if he is selling.

But I've been talking to him...

Time will tell.

This is why you need a pricing model you can arrive at in your head and live with. Which is why I'd presume you'd asked the question in the first place. But what anybody else responded to you on this doesn't mean ding if you don't know why and what you are doing yourself. 'Cos you can either take a shot at acquiring this or not. But it is highly unlikely that it is going to drop onto your lap as if from divine providence - so what's it gonna be?

If you want this you will have to pursue this and make the deal. And you can only do this by making an offer which is as real as putting cash on the barrelhead and money where your mouth is. Then the seller has something to chew on and knows you're for real. And if he counters stupidly then you know where he's at and you either counter or you walk. Or you're both close enough to close a deal. Either way, it's no catastrophe whether you get it or not - it's only a bike.

But don't be a rube and think somehow he's gonna sell it to you for cheap because he somehow doesn't know that he has a desirable Colnago. And don't be indecisive and plead with him for "whaddaya want for it". If you want it - go get it - put up a number. Otherwise you're just kickin' tires and wasting everybody's time.

P.S. I was incomplete in only emphasizing an action that proceeded in trying to buy the frame. It is possible that after arriving at a price a buyer thinks is sensible and reflects all the known factors in pricing that frame, it may be too expensive. So the result will be the buyer doesn't pursue a purchase. Or maybe even throws up a hail-mary bid knowing there's no chance of winning but maybe being able to start a negotiation - hey you never know. But doing it as described here is a world of difference from pricing the frame at some fantasy price just because that is the deal wanted but has no basis in reality and will never get.

[enr1co]

Seller isn't sure if he is selling.

But I've been talking to him...

Time will tell.

He's probably following this thread ;)

[KJMUNC]

Curious minds want to know....did you make an offer?

Also, did someone here buy that Mapei C40 in Boulder? I hemmed/hawed over it and it's gone from CL now.