Spoiler: US vs Ghana

[justinf]

no spoiling from the hover hopefully. . . XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
see below

[catulle]

Sorry, guys, atmo.

[72gmc]

That goal almost couldn't have been prettier. Too bad it was all they had.

One moment of armchair critique: I think the program needs to thank Bruce Arena and go another direction. Yes, they made the quarters four years ago, but even then he came across as uninspiring and indecisive.

[Lincoln]

..

[justinf]

Didn't consider the hover. I guess it's only a matter of time hanging around here before getting accused of poor form :crap:

sorry bout that, j

[fiamme red]

no spoiling from the hover hopefully. . . XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXNope, didn't work.

[justinf]

did on my pc

[goonster]

Once again, the U.S. showed that they are almost there, but in the end there is just one number that matters. One. One goal scored in three games is just not going to cut it.

Pope and Onyewu were pretty solid. Lewis and Convey toiled honorably. McBride is a very decent old school forward, but he's wasted on the field when the team doesn't consistently provide far post service. Beasley was a huge disappointment to me, because I've seen what he's capable of, occasionally. He was brought in much too late against Italy. Reyna is a good guy, but obviously not capable of dominating a game.

Bottom line though is that the U.S. needs to find a new soccer messiah, because Landon Donovan is not it. The only thing he can be counted on is to consistently disappear in big games that mean anything. Consider last year's campaign with Bayer Leverkusen, when he kept begging for a chance to show what he's got, and when he got the start against Liverpool he did zilch.

[fiamme red]

did on my pcWhen I "hover," I get all the post through "decisive." Add some more blank lines, and I think it should be all right.

[justinf]

(post from above)

Hmm. Maybe next time, US soccer. I was covering the match on the net at work so didn't watch the game properly, but seems like same story: not enough scoring opportunities created. Arena doesn't seem to be very decisive these days either.

[72gmc]

Beasley was a huge disappointment to me

To everyone! Including his own mother, perhaps. When he made the play that created the goal I wound up talking to my TV (while my toddler looked at me with concern)... where the heck has THAT kind of play been? How can you only have that one moment of desire when you're in the World Cup? What a waste of cleats. Aaaaargh.

[catulle]

Didn't consider the hover. I guess it's only a matter of time hanging around here before getting accused of poor form :crap:

sorry bout that, j

Chill. Wisdom is learning to know what to overlook or something, reads the post of one the guys here. Don't feel too badly, atmo.

[Lincoln]

MLS is ruining the US team for the WC. The "stars" need more of a challenge and should be playing in Europe (if anyone there will have them).

[catulle]

Patience is a virtue. The US will get there. My brother-in-law, who lives in Houston, paid his college and university career with soccer scholarships. And now his children have college soccer scholarships because he trained them to play since they were two years old. US athletes mostly are well fed from the get go and have the infrastructure to learn and practice. They'll get there. There isn't much money in US soccer yet and most gifted athletes gravitate to other sports, but the US will get there; the passion for sports in the US is just too great, atmo. Cheers.

[znfdl]

One goal scored in three games is just not going to cut it.


Goonster: I would have to say that the US team scored zero goals, as an Italian player scored the goal for the US. ;)

[72gmc]

Good luck to Ghana. They're making this World Cup more exciting.

[goonster]

I think the program needs to thank Bruce Arena and go another direction.

I tend to agree.

I'm not much into manager-bashing, but he has to carry a lot of responsibility for that first game. How can the players not know if they're starting, until the morning of the game, and then have to play in an unfamiliar position?

Also, now that the Reyna era is over, they need a real leader on the field.

In a sense, U.S. soccer is in better shape than ever:
- domestic pro league is basically healthy
- several cities now have dedicated stadiums
- more pros than ever at top-flight euro clubs
- World Cup success is now expected

It's not really such a dark day.

[goonster]

Goonster: I would have to say that the US team scored zero goals, as an Italian player scored the goal for the US. ;)

I was talking about Clint Dempsey's goal today.

[Climb01742]

in most of the world, the best athletes play soccer. here, the best athletes don't. (imagine if they did.) until that day (until hell freezes over) i can't see the u.s. ever being competitive. a different coach and system might make_some_difference but could even sir alex get the u.s. to the finals?

[Johny]

in most of the world, the best athletes play soccer. here, the best athletes don't. (imagine if they did.) until that day (until hell freezes over) i can't see the u.s. ever being competitive.

Define the best athletes? Lance cycles because he cannot play football. Is he not one of the best athletes?

[justinf]

in most of the world, the best athletes play soccer. here, the best athletes don't.

I think you're right about this, despite having to chew on it for a while and put a little ego to the side. US cycling suffers a bit from the same problem in my experience. I grew up with both; most athletes I knew did not.

The goal today was legit (and beautiful). Still, a grand total of one won't get past the first round in virtually any scenario.

[Climb01742]

Define the best athletes? Lance cycles because he cannot play football. Is he not one of the best athletes?

lance certainly qualifies as one of the best. but wouldn't you agree that the vast majority of top u.s. athletes gravitate to football, basketball, baseball and perhaps to a lesser degree, track and field? i'm jazzed about how many american riders will (or should) animate this year's tour, but isn't it sort of a happy fluke, rather than a long-term trend?

[ada@prorider.or]

i think USA need a dutch coach

[97CSI]

I think the USA needed Dutch players, as well. Does LA play soccor?

[catulle]

GO ORANGE...!!!!

[djg]

That goal almost couldn't have been prettier. Too bad it was all they had.

One moment of armchair critique: I think the program needs to thank Bruce Arena and go another direction. Yes, they made the quarters four years ago, but even then he came across as uninspiring and indecisive.

Yes, it turns out that having a fat guy waddling and pouting up and down the sideline is less inspiration than US Soccer thought it might be. Although it's hard to blame everything on Arena, it's also hard not to start and end with him. All sorts of curious choices could be argued to exhaustion, but the basic fact is that Arena has, time and time again, failed to get the most out of his players. Surely we have the imagination and the checkbook to look abroad, and upward, for better leadership.

The goal was lovely, and we could play "what if" all day--the ridiculous penalty shot call, McBride's post, etc., but the team has long had trouble finishing and has shown little-to-no imagination addressing that problem. LD was worthless again, except when chalking up negative value on set plays. Oh right, he botched a feed from McBride in front of the goal, and ...

I'll agree with the Goonster: good solid play from Onyewu and--during his few minutes--Convey. A good effort from Lewis and some very good play (not to mention the goal) from Clint Dempsey. McBride played honorably, especially when we consider how little he was given to work with. Just not enough.

[Lincoln]

lance certainly qualifies as one of the best. but wouldn't you agree that the vast majority of top u.s. athletes gravitate to football, basketball, baseball and perhaps to a lesser degree, track and field? i'm jazzed about how many american riders will (or should) animate this year's tour, but isn't it sort of a happy fluke, rather than a long-term trend?


Climb, I think your premeses is correct but that the degree to which it is true is not as big as it used to be. More and more top American athletes are gravitating to less US-traditional sports. Combine that with a large population (and being an affluent country more kids have an opportunity to play) and we should/do have some really good athletes in soccer (and cycling etc.).

[Climb01742]

Climb, I think your premeses is correct but that the degree to which it is true is not as big as it used to be. More and more top American athletes are gravitating to less US-traditional sports. Combine that with a large population (and being an affluent country more kids have an opportunity to play) and we should/do have some really good athletes in soccer (and cycling etc.).

lincoln, you're quite right; it is changing; my statement was a bit too absolute. just in my life time the number of kids playing soccer has risen dramatically. same for cycling (see 8 americans in this year's tour.) but while it's better, i still despair about the u.s. ever -- or at least soon -- mounting a serious threat in the world cup. soccer is the brightest athletic passion in sooooo many places. a single great american rider like lance can top the cycling world, but a single transcendent american soccer player could not win the cup for us. i can see the u.s. producing individual stars in the future, stars capable of shining in the EPL, for example. but a whole team capable of dethroning brazil or doing what argentina is doing this year? that's a big leap. whereas if you took the 8 americans at this year's tour and fielded a single team? whoa nelly. maybe i'm way off here, but soccer skill seems far harder to attain in large numbers. those more expert than i in "the beautiful game", am i wrong? lord knows i sure could be. :banana:

[Mon Ami]

I'm not sure that the US can go much further without a high quality domestic league. All the successful soccer countries have this, so that kids have a good example and heroes to follow. The same applies with American Football in Europe. There's a small fanatical following but it's not part of the everyday sporting scene, therefore there's only so much that can be achieved. Oddly enough, as an ex-rugby player, I think the US could more easily be tops in the rugby world if only all the kids played rugby from school age onwards.

Maybe this is not a very "proper" American attitude but the US did really well to qualify for the World Cup finals in the first place.

Mon Ami

[ClutchCargo]

That goal almost couldn't have been prettier. Too bad it was all they had.

One moment of armchair critique: I think the program needs to thank Bruce Arena and go another direction. Yes, they made the quarters four years ago, but even then he came across as uninspiring and indecisive.

WORD !

[andy mac]

sorry, but it's a joke you're ranked #5.

the arm-chair ride has to stop.

:beer:

[Needs Help]

The goal was lovely, and we could play "what if" all day--the ridiculous penalty shot call, McBride's post, etc.,
I know all the announcers made a big deal about McBride's post shot, but as far as I could tell, if he hadn't hit the post, he would have hit the goalie in the middle of the chest. I thought the idea was to put the ball where the goalie is not?

Also, every good soccer team that I've seen play, when the defender gets the ball inside the penalty box and there are any offensive players around, the defender boots the ball into the stands either to the right or to the left of the goal. Was Reyna trying to put on a display of advanced dribbling for the TV fans? And, why did he keel over when the offensive player confronted him? The replays didn't indicate that Reyna twisted his ankle or his knee on the play, so the only reason I can think of as to why he keeled over was because he was injured to start with. And, if he was that injured, why was he on the field in the first place, and why was he dribbling in front of the U.S. goal?

[djg]

I know all the announcers made a big deal about McBride's post shot, but as far as I could tell, if he hadn't hit the post, he would have hit the goalie in the middle of the chest. I thought the idea was to put the ball where the goalie is not?

Also, every good soccer team that I've seen play, when the defender gets the ball inside the penalty box and there are any offensive players around, the defender boots the ball into the stands either to the right or to the left of the goal. Was Reyna trying to put on a display of advanced dribbling for the TV fans? And, why did he keel over when the offensive player confronted him? The replays didn't indicate that Reyna twisted his ankle or his knee on the play, so the only reason I can think of as to why he keeled over was because he was injured to start with. And, if he was that injured, why was he on the field in the first place, and why was he dribbling in front of the U.S. goal?

I'm not sure about that. The keeper was coming to the post, but there seemed to me space and the header (unlike some of the team's others) had pace and an angle. Often, in a crowd, that's enough. I'm not saying that he had a goal necessarily. Indeed, I raised the point as a contrast--to highlight that, while in the box plenty, we just didn't put the ball on goal nearly as much as we should have, either in the Ghana game or in the others.

Reyna's mistake was huge and dense, I'm not sure what else to say about it. It's been true all through Arena's tenure, and even before it, that we play tough defense for 80 minutes a game, together with at least several jaw-dropping lapses in the back. In fact, it was interesting to hear Alexi Lallas lambast the team after the Czech game, as he had raised this sort of tough-walkabout-tough routine to an art form in his day. I will say that the lapses are not typically Reyna's. Whether he was injured before the play is hard to know, but he had been playing fairly well I thought. It's always hard to read torque on a knee from the tv or the cheap seats--it looked to me like there was contact with the inside of his knee and lower leg on the fated play, albeit after he'd lost control of the ball (which was after he'd made the junior mistake). I think it's a shame he went out like that--maybe he hasn't been quite what we needed, but he's mostly fought pretty well and hard and long for the team.

[catulle]

I'm not sure that the US can go much further without a high quality domestic league. All the successful soccer countries have this, so that kids have a good example and heroes to follow. The same applies with American Football in Europe. There's a small fanatical following but it's not part of the everyday sporting scene, therefore there's only so much that can be achieved. Oddly enough, as an ex-rugby player, I think the US could more easily be tops in the rugby world if only all the kids played rugby from school age onwards.

Maybe this is not a very "proper" American attitude but the US did really well to qualify for the World Cup finals in the first place.

Mon Ami

word

[justinf]

FWIW: I grew up playing soccer in the 80s and 90s (I'm 32 now). Year round, club ball, 4A high school in NC (biggest), team captain, etc. This is to say that it was a pretty big part of my life at the time and I achieved some success.

Upon graduating high school, only a very small percentage of my peers (including myself) even attempted to go on to the next level, which in the US then was Div 1/Div 2 college ball. I just wanted to do other things with my life at that point. So did most of the other talented players at the top of our game. The desire just wasn't there. I have thought back and second guessed this stage of my life often. At the time it seemed completely natural to phase out of the game. Professional soccer was never even on my radar (talent not withstanding of course). Point is, it was never a dream of mine.

If basketball or football had been my game, I think my desires would have been completely different.

NC in my day was spoken of as an above-average soccer state. Eddie Pope came up from our system. Can't think of anyone else offhand. I don't know if things have changed recently but I agree that 1) we need a decent adult league, and then 2) it will take time to trickle down to our youth. Anyone else identify with this?

[andy mac]

there are plenty of countries still doing well that don't have a strong domestic comp.

like bike racing or skiing, maybe it'd be better if all the US players were in europe?

:confused: