Drain holes in steel frames?

[stephenmarklay]

I have always sprayed my steel frames with Framesaver. Tipping and turning, getting in these chainstays, splashing it on my clothes etc.

I went to do my new CSI and was surprised that there a not really any drain holes. I sprayed in in the seat tube and under the fork but it left me want to spray something else :)

[eBAUMANN]

so are we talking about drain holes or vent holes?

cause a drain hole should only be in the bottom of the bb shell.

if there are no vent holes in the frame, its not a big issue...until it is, that is to say, if moisture got in there somehow prior to welding and starts to rust, well, aint sh*t you can do about it.

a lot of older IF's were built like this and some developed rust issues, most didn't.

[stephenmarklay]

so are we talking about drain holes or vent holes?

cause a drain hole should only be in the bottom of the bb shell.

if there are no vent holes in the frame, its not a big issue...until it is, that is to say, if moisture got in there somehow prior to welding and starts to rust, well, aint sh*t you can do about it.

a lot of older IF's were built like this and some developed rust issues, most didn't.

Yes, I am just not used to it being sealed up. I can’t remember if my old Serotta was like this bit I bet it was.

[Joxster]

so are we talking about drain holes or vent holes?

cause a drain hole should only be in the bottom of the bb shell.

if there are no vent holes in the frame, its not a big issue...until it is, that is to say, if moisture got in there somehow prior to welding and starts to rust, well, aint sh*t you can do about it.

a lot of older IF's were built like this and some developed rust issues, most didn't.

They are also there to stop pressure building up during brazing

[AngryScientist]

one thing is for sure - if your bottom bracket is not drilled with a drain hole - do it now.

[David Kirk]

There should be holes in the head tube that enter into both the top and down tubes........and of course the seat and down tubes are completely open to the inside of the BB shell.

Some CSi's had a drain hole on the underside of the BB shell that allowed for water to drain out (and as importantly for air to circulate) and some didn't. If you use the frame in wet weather it's a good idea to have a hole down there. If it's a sunny Sunday rider it's not a big deal.

dave

[Tickdoc]

I have always sprayed my steel frames with Framesaver. Tipping and turning, getting in these chainstays, splashing it on my clothes etc.

I went to do my new CSI and was surprised that there a not really any drain holes. I sprayed in in the seat tube and under the fork but it left me want to spray something else :)

stupid question.....what is frame saver?

I've seen it before (JP Weigle?) and seen frames advertised as being treated with it, but curious how and why it is used. does it stain/ruin paint? is it for interior of tubes only? Does it have to be reapplied? Will it help my new patio furniture from rotting out over time? so many questions.

[Tickdoc]

found it....from the surly website:

See the little holes the inside of your chainstays? They’re there to allow gasses to release when the frame is being welded, but they also serve to allow some airflow in the tubing. That’s great, but it isn’t enough. It’s a really good idea to coat the insides of the tubes with some kind of protectant. This is best done, obviously, when the frame is still naked, without any components installed. After the initial frame prep, get yourself some JP Weigle Frame Saver or motor fogging oil or boiled linseed oil. Any of these are a kind of sticky oil that coat the insides of the tubes and prevent rust from starting. Frame Saver is a bit toxic, as it comes in an aerosol can, but it has a spray nozzle that lets you easily get into the nooks and crannies on your frame and comes with complete instructions. One can should let you do 3 or 4 frames on average. But whatever you use, go one tube at a time. Spray some in according to the instructions (or a little more than you think you need) and roll the frame around so it coats the entire inside surface. Make sure you remember every tube , including the head tube and fork legs. Let it air out and gel up for a day or so, then clean up any extra on the outside of the frame. Add a light coat of grease to the BB threads, the ends and inside of the head tube, and the seat tube, then install your parts and go ride.

[David Kirk]

"Framesaver" is a spray on corrosion protection treatment that can be sprayed into frames to protect the inner surfaces of a steel frame from corrosion. One should spray it into all the open tubes and rotate the frame around so that all the inner surfaces get covered. It's very thin and runs easily when it comes out of the can but the thin carrier quickly evaporates leaving a waxy oil film that protects the material and repels water.

It is typically used only on the interior surfaces as it's perpetually a bit sticky and oily.

It is pretty easy to clean off of most surfaces including paint while it is still wet. It takes a bit more elbow grease to clean it off once it has dried. I've never heard of it staining paint.

It lasts a good long time. How long? I don't know. I think if I rode a steel bike in the rain a lot that I'd treat it every year or two. If you get caught in a rain storm a few times a summer but otherwise ride in the dry it should last a very long time. Having a drain hole in the BB is a good way to make sure that any water in there can drain out and that air can circulate and keep things dry.

dave

[stephenmarklay]

There should be holes in the head tube that enter into both the top and down tubes........and of course the seat and down tubes are completely open to the inside of the BB shell.

Some CSi's had a drain hole on the underside of the BB shell that allowed for water to drain out (and as importantly for air to circulate) and some didn't. If you use the frame in wet weather it's a good idea to have a hole down there. If it's a sunny Sunday rider it's not a big deal.

dave

Thank you so much Dave. I will take off the stem and see if I can get a spray tip in there.

Mine will be a fair weather bike so I won’t drill a hole.

[stephenmarklay]

"Framesaver" is a spray on corrosion protection treatment that can be sprayed into frames to protect the inner surfaces of a steel frame from corrosion. One should spray it into all the open tubes and rotate the frame around so that all the inner surfaces get covered. It's very thin and runs easily when it comes out of the can but the thin carrier quickly evaporates leaving a waxy oil film that protects the material and repels water.

It is typically used only on the interior surfaces as it's perpetually a bit sticky and oily.

It is pretty easy to clean off of most surfaces including paint while it is still wet. It takes a bit more elbow grease to clean it off once it has dried. I've never heard of it staining paint.

It lasts a good long time. How long? I don't know. I think if I rode a steel bike in the rain a lot that I'd treat it every year or two. If you get caught in a rain storm a few times a summer but otherwise ride in the dry it should last a very long time. Having a drain hole in the BB is a good way to make sure that any water in there can drain out and that air can circulate and keep things dry.

dave

FrameSaver: I have used it on my winter riding motorcycle as well. I would spray everything down in the fall, chassis, wheels, etc and then use WD-40 to clean it in the spring. I really helped keep road salts from corroding the bike.

Note, if you value your dollar you can get http://www.amazon.com/CRC-06026-Heavy-Corrosion-Inhibitor/dp/B0000AXYA0. You may notice the uncanny similarity to Frame Saver :)

[David Kirk]

Thank you so much Dave. I will take off the stem and see if I can get a spray tip in there.

Mine will be a fair weather bike so I won’t drill a hole.

Once you slip the fork out of the frame the two holes should be more than obvious.

dave

[eBAUMANN]

hold on a minute so you are framesavering the frame without it being completely disassembled? wow, thats gotta be a mess.

i would recommend taking it all the way down to just the frame, remove the fork, spray into each tube then plug the seattube, bb shell, and head tube with shop rags.

also, if you are spraying into the tiny vent holes on the seat/chain stays, make sure there are TWO of those holes on each stay, otherwise the pressure from the aerosol in the can entering the stay will blast the framesaver back out of the hole you are spraying into, right into your face. also it will likely not get enough air flow to dry completely and end up dripping out slowly over the course of a few days. ask me how i know...

enjoy!

[eBAUMANN]

They are also there to stop pressure building up during brazing

yes, i was strictly talking about welding, which is the only way there would be sealed up tubes in the frame. if its a brazed/lugged frame, there will be vent holes, always.

[David Kirk]

hold on a minute so you are framesavering the frame without it being completely disassembled? wow, thats gotta be a mess.

i would recommend taking it all the way down to just the frame, remove the fork, spray into each tube then plug the seattube, bb shell, and head tube with shop rags.

also, if you are spraying into the tiny vent holes on the seat/chain stays, make sure there are TWO of those holes on each stay, otherwise the pressure from the aerosol in the can entering the stay will blast the framesaver back out of the hole you are spraying into, right into your face. also it will likely not get enough air flow to dry completely and end up dripping out slowly over the course of a few days. ask me how i know...

enjoy!

If you're treating a Serotta it will not have any vent holes in the seat stays or fork blades. Very small holes are drilled before brazing or welding and they are filled afterward. The chainstays will be open to the BB and can be treated from that end.

dave

[ColonelJLloyd]

ask me how i know...

Been there.

[stephenmarklay]

hold on a minute so you are framesavering the frame without it being completely disassembled? wow, thats gotta be a mess.

i would recommend taking it all the way down to just the frame, remove the fork, spray into each tube then plug the seattube, bb shell, and head tube with shop rags.

also, if you are spraying into the tiny vent holes on the seat/chain stays, make sure there are TWO of those holes on each stay, otherwise the pressure from the aerosol in the can entering the stay will blast the framesaver back out of the hole you are spraying into, right into your face. also it will likely not get enough air flow to dry completely and end up dripping out slowly over the course of a few days. ask me how i know...

enjoy!

Thank you sir! I won’t be taking the bike apart right now but I will eventually and get to that and spray it better. For now it will get a partial spray. I have done that several times. I should take the BB out to get the stays however.

Again this bike won’t be a rain bike.

[seanile]

yes, i was strictly talking about welding, which is the only way there would be sealed up tubes in the frame. if its a brazed/lugged frame, there will be vent holes, always.

some braze/lug builders do fill in the vent holes after the frame is done, so there won't always be vent holes.

[Ronsonic]

one thing is for sure - if your bottom bracket is not drilled with a drain hole - do it now.

I'm a believer. Bottom brackets will last much, much longer.

[dcama5]

one thing is for sure - if your bottom bracket is not drilled with a drain hole - do it now.

I second this! ... or, given the previous post, third this!

[eBAUMANN]

some braze/lug builders do fill in the vent holes after the frame is done, so there won't always be vent holes.

I'm talking about the front triangle here, not stays.

sheesh

[stephenmarklay]

I'm talking about the front triangle here, not stays.

sheesh

The top tube vent hole is closed up on mine from the seat tube side.

[eBAUMANN]

The top tube vent hole is closed up on mine from the seat tube side.

there only really needs to be one hole, its just a vent for the gas that builds up during brazing, so long as there is a way out, it'll get out, a hole at either end of the tube just makes it easier.

[unterhausen]

I've never built a frame with a top tube-seat tube vent. I don't think it's a good idea. Seat posts are enough of a pain without there being a hole 1" down the seat tube.

Of course, everyone does it differently. I would really like to see venting from the chain stays into the bb if I were to buy a frame. Doesn't hurt anything and you can shoot framesaver in there. Of course, some might argue that it would likely be the only ingress for water, but I've just heard too many bad stories about un-vented frames.

[William]

Another option is Fluid Film...

https://www.theruststore.com/Assets/Images/AS11-z.jpg

I used this on my Landcruiser which I used in the salty NE as a DD for years. kept all the rust away and it creeps like crazy into all the nooks and crannies. When I cut off the rockers to instal sliders I found that the Fluid Film had crept into places I couldn't get to with direct spraying. After this experience I started using it in my bike frames and it works great.

Besides working great, being non-toxic helps. Here an attachment you can use to get all the way into the tubes...and it will creep into where you can't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzJeEPtvwqw










William