DA9000 questions

[Onno]

After buying a lovely Parlee on ebay 2 years ago, which came with Ultegra 6700, I've decided it's time to do some upgrading of components. I've been dissatisfied with the shifting, which is not nearly as smooth or precise as the DA7700 (9speed) on my 15 year-old Serotta, especially with the front derailleur, but also with the rear. I think this must have to do with the fact that the cables are routed through the base of the shifters, so that the cables can be hidden under the handlebar tape, rather than straight out the sides. With the left 7700 shifter, it feels like I barely have to push it to shift into the big ring. With the 6700, I have to give it a pretty firm push, which is OK, until I ride my Serotta again....

Is the new generation of Shimano 11 speed shifters much lighter in feel than that of the 10-speed 6700 or 7900?

Also, if I go with 9000 shifters instead of 6800, should I be looking for the 9001 version? If so, what's the difference between that and the 9000?

Thanks.

[beeatnik]

Is the new generation of Shimano 11 speed shifters much lighter in feel than that of the 10-speed 6700 or 7900?

Also, if I go with 9000 shifters instead of 6800, should I be looking for the 9001 version?

Thanks.

Yes and yes.

[kgreene10]

I also say yes to both yeses.

[Dead Man]

Yup and yup, as indicated. The first generation of shift-under-the-tape was finicky, but they figured it out with 6800/9000... make sure you use the recommended PU-coated cables.

9001 has improvements over 9000, so why not? But 9000 shifters are still great shifters.

[ravdg316]

Setup of that front derailleur can be tricky. On my third frame with the same DA 9000 group and I finally got it right and it shifts amazingly. I used this resource: https://secondnaturecycling.com/2013/01/26/dura-ace-9000-front-derailleur-setup/.

[Onno]

Interesting, and thanks. I've always found front derailleurs harder to set up properly.

[berserk87]

Setup of that front derailleur can be tricky. On my third frame with the same DA 9000 group and I finally got it right and it shifts amazingly. I used this resource: https://secondnaturecycling.com/2013/01/26/dura-ace-9000-front-derailleur-setup/.

Thanks for the link. I got mine set up last July but it has not been dialed in like I would expect. I will review and hope that this helps with some long-needed fine tuning.

[Dead Man]

Yea.. if you don't do it right, it'll never work right. I recently recabled my 9000 set, and I took a picture of the way the cable routed over the der, just so I wouldn't screw it up on reassembly... and I've done a few of 'em. It's not exactly intuitive.

[jensenn]

just set up DA 9000 on my caad10 and yes, the front derailleur got a bit frustrating. lots of resources online recoomending a barrell adjuster to get it just right. didnt want to put in an inline adjuster, i had to stretch the cable and had have my wife tighten the bolt as i pressed down and pulled on the cable.

[Dead Man]

just set up DA 9000 on my caad10 and yes, the front derailleur got a bit frustrating. lots of resources online recoomending a barrell adjuster to get it just right. didnt want to put in an inline adjuster, i had to stretch the cable and had have my wife tighten the bolt as i pressed down and pulled on the cable.

BAh - screw barrel adjustors. Those things just cause more headaches than they cure. Sometimes I have to given a new cable one additional loosening/retightening after initial install, I guess for "cable stretch," but I haven't needed a barrel adjustor for a front der in years.

[FlashUNC]

9001s supposedly eat fewer cables than the 9000s.

[saab2000]

BAh - screw barrel adjustors. Those things just cause more headaches than they cure. Sometimes I have to given a new cable one additional loosening/retightening after initial install, I guess for "cable stretch," but I haven't needed a barrel adjustor for a front der in years.

Do you use a 9000? They kind of do need something. I'm not a total hack mechanic and I never got my 9000 front ders to work properly until I had a barrel adjuster to get the tension very high even in the loosest position. I've never needed this before, but on the 9000s I did.

[oldpotatoe]

Do you use a 9000? They kind of do need something. I'm not a total hack mechanic and I never got my 9000 front ders to work properly until I had a barrel adjuster to get the tension very high even in the loosest position. I've never needed this before, but on the 9000s I did.

I'm not a barrell adjuster for front Der fan but with shimano 11s, may need it otherwise when you go big-big, trim once, you may not be able to get chain proper. But the converter thingy is the most critical part and cable route(under vs over the boot in all cases), not intuitive.

[Dead Man]

Do you use a 9000? They kind of do need something. I'm not a total hack mechanic and I never got my 9000 front ders to work properly until I had a barrel adjuster to get the tension very high even in the loosest position. I've never needed this before, but on the 9000s I did.

Indeed... 9000.

I route the cable, bring the bolt down on it but don't tighten all the way.. then I give the cable a two or three fairly sharp tugs, hold, and tighten - seems to take all the slack out and deform the cable to the new routing position.... With the 9000, I don't think I've ever had to mess with it again.

[saab2000]

Indeed... 9000.

I route the cable, bring the bolt down on it but don't tighten all the way.. then I give the cable a two or three fairly sharp tugs, hold, and tighten - seems to take all the slack out and deform the cable to the new routing position.... With the 9000, I don't think I've ever had to mess with it again.

Cool. I had thought about adjusting the limit screws a bit further in and playing with it that way - tightening the cable and then readjusting the limit screws to take out the slack.

Whatever works!:beer:

[PaulE]

To me, the weird thing about the 9000 front derailleur is that the arm is so long and vertical that its movement to its lowest position seems to put additional tension on the cable, what I would describe as an "over-center" concept, if that is possible. I got mine to work great - after first trying to install the cable without an inline cable tensioner - which didn't fly. After installing the tensioner and increasing the tension it works really well.

[ravdg316]

For those of you having trouble with that DA9000 front derailleur, here are some steps I used to get mine working well:

With a downtube barrel adjuster, I first ensured that the setting was at its "loosest," turning it clockwise as far as it could go. Then, I ran the wire through the downtube barrel adjuster and through the cable guides on the bottom bracket.

Then, I used pliers to keep the tension on the wire tight. With my other hand, I tightened the hex screw where the wire passes through the front derailleur with my Ritchey torque wrench.

I then released any excess slack by downshifting to the smaller front cog to lowest trim setting on the left shifter. Then, I retightened the wire at the front derailleur and retorqued. I did these steps until I was confident that the cable was as tight as I could get it to go with pliers and without rotating the downtube barrel adjuster. I used trial and error to figure out how exactly the wire should run through the front derailleur, because I didn't have the infamous FD-90 "converter tool." It didn't come with my groupset.

Once I was confident I had the cable as tight as it would go, I used the following information from my previous link: https://secondnaturecycling.com/2013/01/26/dura-ace-9000-front-derailleur-setup/. I'm not a good enough mechanic to figure out how the following worked, but it did:

"Onto the adjustments! Once the cable has been torqued to 5-7Nm, we’re ready to get tuning. Ensure that the derailleur is in the low-trim position and shift the rear derailleur to the low gear (the biggest cog). Use the downtube barrel adjuster or inline barrel adjuster and turn counterclockwise until the inner plate of the derailleur cage is within 0-0.5mm of the inside edge of the chain [NOTE FROM ME: If you're using pliers to tighten the cable, you shouldn't have to turn the barrel adjuster much, if at all]. Then, turn the Low limit screw clockwise until it begins to move the chain and then back it off by an eighth of a turn. Now, we’ll adjust the cable tension by shifting the derailleur into the top-trim position (Shift to the large chainring and then click once on the shifter and notice the derailleur shift back by a small degree). While in the top-trim position and the chain still in the low (11) cog in the rear, use the barrel adjuster to bring the inner plate of the derailleur cage to 0-0.5mm of the inside edge of the chain. Once this is done, shift the front derailleur into the low position. Shift the rear derailleur into the 5th, 6th, and 7th gears to check for rubbing on the inner skid plate of the cage. If there is no rubbing in these three gears, shift to the 4th and 8th cogs and turn the barrel adjuster counterclockwise or clockwise 1/2 turn, respectively to finish the tension adjustment. If there still is no rubbing on the 5th, 6th, and 7th cogs, change the converter position of the washer to the opposite position and repeat the setup. Last thing is the top adjustment. Shift the rear derailleur into the top gear (1) and turn the top limit screw until the outer plate is within 0-0.5mm of the outside edge of the chain. Then, shift through all the gears and check your work."

If these steps in the above quotes don't work, you likely have the wire going through the front derailleur incorrectly for your frame. When I set everything up properly on my new frame, I first ran the wire through incorrectly for my frame, so I redid the wiring and repeated the steps in quotes above. The steps for adjustment highlighted above are easily undoable and repeatable. You just have to be willing to play around with things.

At this point, my brand new cables might have settled in so I might have to tighten the cable at the downtube barrel adjuster just a little by rotating the barrel adjuster counterclockewise.

Hope this helps some of you :).

[GregL]

Here's some more useful information with input from Shimano to VeloNews: http://velonews.competitor.com/2015/03/bikes-and-tech/technical-faq/technical-faq-shimano-11-speed-front-derailleur-cable-setup_363733

My $0.02: take the time to read the Shimano Dealer Manual (http://si.shimano.com/#seriesList/16) and follow it to the letter. Use the appropriate tool (TL-FD90 or TL-FD68) to route the cable correctly. Make sure you have sufficient tension on the cable. The first time I set up a DA 9000 front derailleur, I easily spent a half-hour reading and re-reading the instructions. The actual derailleur setup only took a few minutes once I understood what I had to do. Good luck!

- Greg

[Onno]

I think all my bikes but one have barrel adjusters for both front and rear derailleur. I don't understand the hate for them. My fav is the little lever adjusters on the down tube that came with the DA7700 set up, giving really quick and precise adjustments as you ride. The barrel adjusters on later set ups give more range, but are a little harder to operate. But they make getting a perfect tune possible, and make it really easy to deal with stretching cables. I guess with internal cable routing (which I don't have) barrel adjusters are harder or even impossible to include?