Stages Powermeters

[mike mcdermid]

Conflicting reports

are they good or bad

[bjf]

I used a Powertap for years, but finally got tired of the weight. Switched to Stages. It reads about 12 watts higher than the hub meter, but a Stages rep told me that's most likely just because of the difference in method of measurement. Otherwise, I have found it to be reliable and consistent with itself. I know some people don't like the one side only aspect, but for my purposes all I need is day-to-day comparisons. Once you identify your FTP with this device, it should fill the bill, IMO.

[eBAUMANN]

i have em on 5 different bikes. they work great, ive had zero issues with any of em.

[Joachim]

Most of my riders use something else. If they have a stages and it dies, they buy something else.

[nooneline]

It's not really about "good" or "bad" - it's a little bit more complex than that. They're "good" in that they measure power and transmit it to a headunit.

But they have a few shortcomings that bound their utility somewhat. They don't have a reputation for accuracy for very short efforts, so they're not recommended for sprint training (for longer efforts, the signal overwhelms the noise, things average properly, and they're decent). Since they measure the power of your left leg and they double it, if you have an imbalance, then they won't capture data that you need.

As far as quality, individual units can be a little bit hit or miss. I've had a few units that have acted up - but Stages Custo Service has been very responsive in helping me identify the issue and replacing units as necessary.

[eBAUMANN]

Most of my riders use something else. If they have a stages and it dies, they buy something else.

Ive heard stories of this...ive also heard just as many stories of stages awesome customer service. Hell, they sent me free battery doors and o-rings and i wasnt even the original owner of the arm.

[unterhausen]

I think Stages is used by most of the local racers. But I hear that from a Stages fan, so it could be confirmation bias. He tells me they are a lot better than they were a few years ago

[Joachim]

Ive heard stories of this...ive also heard just as many stories of stages awesome customer service. Hell, they sent me free battery doors and o-rings and i wasnt even the original owner of the arm.

Good products don't need awesome customer service. Anyway, I can only speak from what my riders do. There are others out there that are happy with what they provide.

[eBAUMANN]

Good products don't need awesome customer service. Anyway, I can only speak from what my riders do. There are others out there that are happy with what they provide.

IMO, ALL products need awesome customer service, because all products (especially electronic/computer based ones) will need SOMETHING one day, and its good to have a company ready and willing to help out.

For example, SRM: great power meters, but you have to pay SRM to have the battery changed...

[berserk87]

Good products don't need awesome customer service.

That's an untrue statement.

I agree that a good product will have fewer issues, but ALL products are going to need customer service. Any call into the manufacturer with a technical question, compatibility issue, replacement for a lost part, or fit/sizing question denotes the need for customer service. Customer servicing is not confined to breakages and warranty issues.

[Neil]

I've never used Stages (but have used most other types of powermeter), I'd go for Vector or Pioneer if I wanted a single sided unit as both of those can be upgraded to full dual recording as and when you want to/get the cash/etc.

[Dead Man]

Power noob, I am... so educate me..... but if you establish FTP with a Stages, even if you have a leg power discrepancy... does it matter if it's not reading "accurately?" I mean, % of FTP is all you care about... doesn't matter what the actual number is. No?

[Neil]

If you're going to ride the one bike, with Stages, then it doesn't matter at all.

Problem comes if you move from bike to bike*, or use a Watt-bike etc, as you can't guarantee that your left legX2 FTP is the same as a left+right FTP etc.

*Using a dual sided PM I can see very easily if my saddle height is correct as my power balance tips either left or right depending on the saddle being too high or too low, it's 50/50 when I get the height spot on. That might just be me though. Confuses the hell out of other chaps getting ready in the car park as I ride up a slope, stop, drop post, ride up slope, raise post etc. If going from single sided to single sided I might be 45/55 on one, 55/45 on the other depending on setup, which would give a variance of 20% from one bike to the other, if that makes sense?

[sandyrs]

Power noob, I am... so educate me..... but if you establish FTP with a Stages, even if you have a leg power discrepancy... does it matter if it's not reading "accurately?" I mean, % of FTP is all you care about... doesn't matter what the actual number is. No?

Accuracy's nice if you have multiple meters across different bikes and they're not all the same model.

But yes, consistency is more important than all-out accuracy.

[Joachim]

That's an untrue statement.

I agree that a good product will have fewer issues, but ALL products are going to need customer service. Any call into the manufacturer with a technical question, compatibility issue, replacement for a lost part, or fit/sizing question denotes the need for customer service. Customer servicing is not confined to breakages and warranty issues.

Statement was meant to be read between the lines. Sure stages has good customer service. If they break down less, you won't need the customer service. I only stated what my experience is, with numerous riders who all use power meters. The group size is a little larger than one persons experience with their own power meter.

[Joachim]

Power noob, I am... so educate me..... but if you establish FTP with a Stages, even if you have a leg power discrepancy... does it matter if it's not reading "accurately?" I mean, % of FTP is all you care about... doesn't matter what the actual number is. No?

Yes, but that's not where the problems with stages lie. There is enough out there and a number of my riders stages died without warning. After two or three times going back and forth to stages, they got tired of the problems and got rid of the stages. But awesome customer service!

[benb]

I have 2 that have been great so far. But I bought them this year.

The thing with Stages is they had some problems early on. Anyone who bought early is going to have been more likely to have a problem.

So when you ask in a forum you're not getting the current picture, you're getting a mix of what was going on a few years ago with what's happening now.

If you pedal artificially with one leg you can see the discrepancy but in real use its been no big deal to me at all.

Interestingly I have done almost no single legged pedal drills with it. If you do that you get really bad readings obviously.

I don't thing you should be relying on a PM to correct fitting and asymmetry issues, not an issue to me.

[Dead Man]

Yes, but that's not where the problems with stages lie. There is enough out there and a number of my riders stages died without warning. After two or three times going back and forth to stages, they got tired of the problems and got rid of the stages. But awesome customer service!

I hadn't heard they'd had problems... This is the first, for me

Well, they're a local company.. so if I have a problem, I can just cruise down to the shop and bang on the door

[stien]

+1 on the thoughts on Stages having great service, but the product lacking. We warrantied two sets and just sold the third set they sent us. Had enough of that.

[nooneline]

Accuracy's nice if you have multiple meters across different bikes and they're not all the same model.

But yes, consistency is more important than all-out accuracy.

The problem with consistency is that with discrepancies, a common experience is that discrepancy increases with fatigue - but without being able to measure left and right (either independently, or via total power), you have no idea what the discrepancy is.

It's not that left leg power doubling fails for every rider - far from it - but that for those for whom it does fail, it provides an insufficient amount of data because there's an uncaptured variable between the power that is produced and the power that is measured.

[bcroslin]

I have the Stages version 2 with the improved battery door and it's been rock solid for the last 3 months. It measures power just like it's supposed to. I know someone who had a version 1 that drastically underestimated his power output and he's since gone back to a power tap.

[benb]

The problem with consistency is that with discrepancies, a common experience is that discrepancy increases with fatigue - but without being able to measure left and right (either independently, or via total power), you have no idea what the discrepancy is.

It's not that left leg power doubling fails for every rider - far from it - but that for those for whom it does fail, it provides an insufficient amount of data because there's an uncaptured variable between the power that is produced and the power that is measured.

That's an interesting observation. I did a ride Saturday that was close to 5 hours, TSS was about 300.

I knew I was fading big time in the last 2 hours and the final #s out of my stages didn't look outrageous, they seemed about right. But there was a bunch of times I looked down and the 3s reading looked ridiculously low for the speed I was going. To the point I tried emphasizing my left leg to see if something was going on. It didn't make much difference but it makes me wonder if my right leg was contributing more and my left leg was shutting down as I ran into the wall. I've got a few more very long\hard rides coming up so I'll have to watch for this. However even if the #s were reading low the PM still did it's job and I was far better off than if I did not have one. If it is a question of Nothing, Stages, or something 2-3x more expensive than Stages, if you can't afford or are unwilling to pay for the more expensive one the stages is still far better than nothing.

I was probably about 2mph faster on that ride than I would have been before I'd used a PM to learn how to pace myself.

[eBAUMANN]

But there was a bunch of times I looked down and the 3s reading looked ridiculously low for the speed I was going.

(Assuming you are on relatively flat ground) Once you are up to speed, it takes relatively little power input to maintain that speed...for that reason, speed alone is a very poor indicator of actual power output. This is my experience, I am not a coach or power expert, just a dude with a PM ;)

[benb]

Yah I think you are right.. it was really just the last 45 minutes everything started to go south and it was probably a food issue.

NP for each hour:
0:00-0:59 - 237w
1:00-1:59 - 241w
2:00-2:59 - 193w
3:00-3:59 - 194w
4:00-4:45 - 157w

The first hours had some intervals.. ~200w is where I would have been targeting for the rest so I was just running out of steam.

The last hour was the flattest part of the ride but also had a headwind so the #s just seemed too low at the end.. I knew I was running out of energy but I was still making ~17mph pace that last 45 minutes.

I gotta do 8 hours in june at this pace if I want to finish B2VT at the pace I signed up for. The next couple big rides I do will be more steady.

[shovelhd]

Good products don't need awesome customer service. Anyway, I can only speak from what my riders do. There are others out there that are happy with what they provide.

My three month old SRM puked. Two week turnaround. That's not awesome. **** happens. Meanwhile I'm riding my backup bike with the Stages. Works fine after the new battery door.

[shovelhd]

(Assuming you are on relatively flat ground) Once you are up to speed, it takes relatively little power input to maintain that speed...for that reason, speed alone is a very poor indicator of actual power output. This is my experience, I am not a coach or power expert, just a dude with a PM ;)

Depends how fast you are going. On the weekly hammerfest I'm well over threshold just sitting in, and I'm wicked aero.

[steelbikerider]

Bought one for 1/2 price when they had the closeout on DA 7900 arms. The first one only worked for 3 rides. Stages sent a new one and asked that I sent the old one back. I had battery issues with the 2nd one with batteries only lasting 30 - 40 hours. After 3 months, Stages sent me a new one with the updated hardware and asked for the old one back. The 3rd one has been fine for the last 7 months. I would but another one without question. Customer service always responded promptly to e-mails, the PM is easy to use and install and the numbers seem consistent.

[chiasticon]

Yes, but that's not where the problems with stages lie. There is enough out there and a number of my riders stages died without warning. After two or three times going back and forth to stages, they got tired of the problems and got rid of the stages. But awesome customer service!this was exactly my experience with them. mind you, that was all with the gen one unit, though they put me through like three gens of "new and improved" (but looks exactly the same) battery doors. I know of a few people who have had experiences similar to mine and also a friend who got an upgrade to a 2nd gen unit and has had no issues since. to be fair: stages did offer me this (and everyone is correct, they do have excellent customer service) but I was over it at that point. my thinking at the time was that for about $100 more (before they dropped prices recently) I could get the Power2Max spider for my existing Force 22 cranks; and I couldn't find a bad word about them any where. glad I went that way, as the P2M has been trouble-free so far.

[LJohnny]

I recently got a Stages Shimano 105 (5700) from their closeout sale. I have an Ultegra 6800. Both of these have the new 2nd gen module.

The 105 has had connectivity issues right out of the box. Whereas the Ultegra performs flawless under the same circumstances. I contacted Stages customer service and they asked me for the usual shots of the app, battery door, meter module w/o batt and calibration value. All these look fine. So they theorize that there must be some interference issue. I have tested two receiving units, an edge 1000 and edge 800, and the 105 has connectivity issues with both, yet the ultegra is fine.
I politely requested the possibility of an exchange for another crank. Stages customer service instead requested more "tests" as in use an app on the phone to narrow down the issue or move the receiving units to the stem of the bike,, etc. I, on the other hand argue that when I put the Ultegra Stages on this bike it works just fine, same bike, same mount, same conditoins... thus if there is indeed a problem with interference with the new 105 crank, I see this as a defect in this unit... I don't use a phone app to record my rides or carry the computer on the stem, so this data points would not be of practical help, in my opinion.

So, to be honest I do not feel good about the situation and I feel as I really don't need to do more tests as I don't see this crankset as a functional unit. In my disappointment today I actually asked them if I could just straight return the unit and just move on. But I was informed of their return policy pertains only to unused units within 14 days of purchase. So a return is obviously not an option. Anyway, I sort of regret this purchase now, since I am stuck with a unit defective right out of the box. After bringing up their return policy mentioned above, they did expressed their support for their product and offered, after I asked a return label, for me to send the unit back for repair. But this would obviously imply that I will be without the meter for a while. After consideration of my options, I guess sending the unit for examination is my alternative for a clean bill of health.

Overall, I felt that my original request for an exchange was not unreasonable....
Am I out of line here? Thoughts?

[doomridesout]

OK, so mixed reviews on the Stages. It's a shame they can't get it pinned down because the format is appealing to me since I have two bikes with the same cranks I'd want to swap between. What's the alternative "value" PM that's more reliable? 4iiii is basically vaporware and for better or for worse, have priced themselves so low into looking suspect on that fact alone.

Is there anything else in a sub-$1000 mark that people don't have lots of issues with?

[Dead Man]

I'm sure there are bajillions of happy stages users..

[SpeedyChix]

I've used PowerTap hubs, SRM, InfoCrank and Quarq cranks, also Stages crank arms on road and mtb. All have had issues, customer service with Quarq and Stages is super fast and they're easy to deal with.

Stages: like because the arm can be shared among the Shimano splines road/mtb. Frees up my choice of using road or mtb crankset on my mtb and road/cx when I'm out of state and want low low gearing and power. i.e. I use a mtb crank on my CX race rig to run a smaller front ring.

Quarq: I ride Shimano drivetrain and finally came up with a workaround that lets me use a Shimano BB and the SRAM/Quarq on the road.

These are the two platforms I've settled on and would buy both again. Stages is still the more economical option. If you only run one power meter or want to buy multiple for different bikes, Stages is it. Leg imbalance is an issue but if you're always on Stages it carries across all.

[LJohnny]

In the past (late last year), I had an issue with my ultegra Stages meter and I contacted customer service and they were indeed very responsive. I got an exchange unit with new module and sent back the defective unit.

My experience with the 105 Stages I reference above was a bit different. The response from customer service took longer and they told me that they were a bit short on staff at the moment and that there was a backlog of on the tickets. So perhaps it is the short staff issue here. I do need to coordinate to get this resolved. But not the experience I was hoping for.

[chiasticon]

Is there anything else in a sub-$1000 mark that people don't have lots of issues with?again, I would suggest Power2Max. google and try to find a bad review vs stages...

cheapest Quarq is $800. and there was a rotor inPower in classifieds for $650 a couple weeks back...

also check out Pioneer. full version is $1k-ish but there's a couple used ones in the classifieds for less. their left side only one is $500 but Shimano only. they are a new player to the market for sure, but I've read positive things.

anyway, yeah you have a lot of options if $1k is your ceiling!

[benb]

Since I posted earlier in this thread I had one of my Stages PMs die and had a good customer service experience.

I have 2 of them, I have 0 interference problems with the Edge 1000 I bought a couple months ago.

My Garmin Fenix 3 (watch form factor) has more troubles with interference with the Stages PMs, whereas it doesn't seem to have any issues with other Ant+ sensors. Not sure what's going on there. Those interference problems are 99% never a problem outside though, I just have to be careful on the trainer... I have a big fan I use and it totally knocks things for a loop if it's too close to the bike.

[Clancy]

Understand easily how a Stages only measures the left leg. Also understand, easily, how such will not show any leg imbalance.

But do not understand how that in and of itself is a knock against Stages.

Does a Powertap hub show imbalance?

I've used a Quarq for years with zero issues. But have always thought it was pulling data off the right crank arm. Does not measure both legs.

Wrong?

I've been looking at Stages for a new build. The fact that it measures only the left crank arm has not been a concern. If it gives significantly different readings than the Quarq, then that's a PIA

[nooneline]

So, to be honest I do not feel good about the situation and I feel as I really don't need to do more tests as I don't see this crankset as a functional unit. In my disappointment today I actually asked them if I could just straight return the unit and just move on. But I was informed of their return policy pertains only to unused units within 14 days of purchase. So a return is obviously not an option. Anyway, I sort of regret this purchase now, since I am stuck with a unit defective right out of the box. After bringing up their return policy mentioned above, they did expressed their support for their product and offered, after I asked a return label, for me to send the unit back for repair. But this would obviously imply that I will be without the meter for a while. After consideration of my options, I guess sending the unit for examination is my alternative for a clean bill of health.

Overall, I felt that my original request for an exchange was not unreasonable....
Am I out of line here? Thoughts?

Just jump through their hoops for a little while longer until they are satisfied that your unit is actually defective - and you'll get the return or exchange that you need.


I've used a Quarq for years with zero issues. But have always thought it was pulling data off the right crank arm. Does not measure both legs.

Wrong?

The Quarq doesn't measure it at the right crankarm, it measures power at the spider. Power from both legs is transmitted through the spider. You can see this in action by pedaling with your left leg only. Notice that it moves your bike forward. :)

[chiasticon]

I've used a Quarq for years with zero issues. But have always thought it was pulling data off the right crank arm. Does not measure both legs.

I've been looking at Stages for a new build. The fact that it measures only the left crank arm has not been a concern. If it gives significantly different readings than the Quarq, then that's a PIAquarq measures at the spider. so measures both legs, but not independently. stages measures independently, and only one leg. make sense? not a huge deal IMHO, unless you're recovering from leg injury and are doing one leg drills or something.

also it may well differ from your quarq, but probably only by a certain, consistently repeatable percentage. just like if you moved to any other power meter.

[firerescuefin]

I'm sure there are bajillions of happy stages users..

I have had more friends/people I ride with that use Stages have to send them back than be trouble free, and that trend seems to be holding on here. Awesome customer service because you're often using it isn't awesome. That's a problem IMO...and at 650 (with other meters coming down in price) and only a one year warranty...the value proposition isn't what it once was.

[benb]

The question is how good are the other ones that are much more expensive and are there even enough people here using them to have any idea how reliable they are?

The thing is everything on the forum is anecdotal. Due to the low price it sounds like there are a lot more of us using Stages than the more expensive PMs. For all we know Stages are one of the more reliable PMs, we don't have the full repair/warranty data from the various companies.

If I was made of money I'd probably have a couple of SRMs, but $4400 for PMs (and really I would like to have 3 so $6600) is just totally not happening. And buying a used one for $1000 is not happening either if the warranty, etc.. is not transferrable.

[firerescuefin]

The question is how good are the other ones that are much more expensive and are there even enough people here using them to have any idea how reliable they are?

The thing is everything on the forum is anecdotal. Due to the low price it sounds like there are a lot more of us using Stages than the more expensive PMs. For all we know Stages are one of the more reliable PMs, we don't have the full repair/warranty data from the various companies.

If I was made of money I'd probably have a couple of SRMs, but $4400 for PMs (and really I would like to have 3 so $6600) is just totally not happening. And buying a used one for $1000 is not happening either if the warranty, etc.. is not transferrable.

lots of good deals to be found on used SRMs. I've known lots of users of each type....more Stages and Quarq issues (but wonderful customer service) Power2Max seems to be the sweet spot as far as value. Buy whatever you want.

[berserk87]

I don't know how reliable they are, but the Pioneer units are cheap at present for one arm (ala Stages) at about $499. Looks like a Stages in appearance.

[TimAZ]

I work very part time for a bike shop as a mountain bike guide. I sent Stages an email requested their EP form quiz. They sent it to me know questions asked. That allowed me a one time purchase of 50% off. I bought the Cannondale SI crank arm. I am a first time PM user, so I really know no difference. It tells me my left leg power output and doubles it. It gives me a base number to train off of. They claim +/- 2% accuracy. I have had no problems with mine in the two short months that I've owned it. I also, think they look the best.

[dem]

I own 3 power meters (due to various pedal, crank, bike constraints)
Powertap G3 - 10,000+ miles
Garmin VectorS - 2000+ miles, many in rain and muck, also use it on rental bikes
Stages Gen1 - died after 2 years (would not turn off, never soaked or rained on) since this is on my MTB, probably 600 miles.

Stages replaced it within a week for free with a Gen2, despite it being out of warranty.

I'm optimistic the Gen2 have worked out whatever issues were in Gen1, plus Stages taking care of my out-of-warranty arm, that I've purchased another for my gravel rig.

[gavingould]

i've had a few diff power meters...

Powertap wireless? it was fine, no issues, had it maybe a year
Quarq? it was also fine, the battery door (plastic) stripped out and i bought a replacement for ~$20.
Stages? had one for about 2 years now. Battery door broke, emailed them and they sent me 2 new ones. it also works fine.

[SpeedyChix]

One other data point, I had a gen 1 Stages XTR crank, was the second owner. Worked great, data good for how I was using it. Started to eat batteries. Contact Stages. Turns out they had some where the battery door was a bit too large for the body and this was among those. They shipped a new current design XTR arm to me. Works great.

I'd be keeping it except I'm changing bikes and won't be able to use it. Although it'll work on the CX bike so may just use the arm on the Ultegra crank if the whole package doesn't sell.

Stages are a reasonably priced option for anyone who uses a single power meter. When you start to mix it with SRM, Quarq, InfoCrank or P2Max data it starts to get a touch more complicated.

[LJohnny]

To wrap up the story from the post above:
Stages sent me a replacement crankarm and it works just fine on the bike. I have no idea what the issue was with the first 105 I received, but the replacement has been rock solid for 2 rides.

[John H.]

Long time SRM user- I recently got a stages as a backup and also to use on my cross bike.
After a couple rides I have to say that the Stages is not so hot.
Dropouts and odd power readings all over the place.
Got a low battery warning on 2nd ride (had a battery in my seat bag because I knew this was an issue).
I feel like it is not very useful for training with power.
It might work fine for someone who has never used a pwoermeter that is accurate, or someone that just wants to see numbers (but does not really use or understand what they see).

[dem]

Something is not right with your Stages.

I have two Gen2 stages (one replacing a Gen1 with the battery issue - free, even though it was 1 year out of warranty) and a Powertap G3 and a VectorS. They all work reliably, with the only downside being the "one leg" nature.

No drop outs or weird readings from any of them (Garmin 500, 510, 520)

[Dead Man]

It might work fine for someone who has never used a pwoermeter that is accurate, or someone that just wants to see numbers (but does not really use or understand what they see).

Oh... guess those of us using them are just a bunch of gumbies. :rolleyes:

Want to race?

[joosttx]

Oh... guess those of us using them are just a bunch of gumbies. :rolleyes:

Want to race?

Be careful what you ask for.

John, i been fooling around with a stages power meter for six weeks. I have found it hard to keep a consistent reading to a point when riding with a set power range is difficult. Are you saying using a SRM is better at what I am describing or is it just a noob thing.

[John H.]

That is what I am saying.
However, Nick mentioned that I should try a Garmin head unit before I condemn the stages.
I was using an SRM PC8 head unit.
But yes, with my SRM I can keep a pretty tight band on most grades.

Be careful what you ask for.

John, i been fooling around with a stages power meter for six weeks. I have found it hard to keep a consistent reading to a point when riding with a set power range is difficult. Are you saying using a SRM is better at what I am describing or is it just a noob thing.

[yashcha]

My 7900 stages Gen 2 is fairly reliable. Reliable in that it loses connection for about 10 seconds every two minutes.

[bewheels]

Not a power noobie here...

Have had a Stages for 6 months.
Using it with a Garmin 510.
Stages is linked to the Garmin via entering the unit number not just letting the two units auto sync.
No issues.
Consistent read out.
Got power reading drops once. Replaced the battery and all was good.
Replacing the battery ...takes 5x longer to get the battery out of it's own wrapper as it does to swap the battery out of the Stages.

Is Stages the same level as an SRM? No.
It is 1/3 the price of an SRM. But 95% of the performance.

[shovelhd]

That is what I am saying.
However, Nick mentioned that I should try a Garmin head unit before I condemn the stages.
I was using an SRM PC8 head unit.
But yes, with my SRM I can keep a pretty tight band on most grades.

I use my Stages with a PC8. No dropouts, no failures, no battery life issues, nothing but 100% solid performance. It sends a complete set of ANT+ data for the PC8, just like my SRM PM7. It's been more reliable as well. Significantly.

[John H.]

I tried the Stages with a Garmin 500- no real dropouts. But power is still way more variable than with an SRM- makes me look like a rockstar in terms of power though-

[KF9YR]

OK, so mixed reviews on the Stages. It's a shame they can't get it pinned down because the format is appealing to me since I have two bikes with the same cranks I'd want to swap between. What's the alternative "value" PM that's more reliable? 4iiii is basically vaporware and for better or for worse, have priced themselves so low into looking suspect on that fact alone.



Is there anything else in a sub-$1000 mark that people don't have lots of issues with?


I have two Stages (XT and 6800), and 3 4iiii (Dura Ace, XTR, and XT).

I haven't had any issues with any of these power meters, we don't get a lot of wet riding here in AZ so the absence of the battery door issue with Stages isn't a surprise.

I'm not sure what you mean by 4iiii vaporware as I've had them for over a year with no issues. The battery life isn't as good as the Stages but I do get a warning on the Garmin head unit when the battery is low.

Everyone has different circumstances but my experience has been good with both Stages and 4iiii