Chondroitin/Glucosamine

[TimB]

TooTall or others -

What's the latest thinking on these supplements? I've always been a very skeptical camper when it comes to this stuff. But last weekend, talking to my dad, and he swears by the stuff. He's had one knee replacement, and had been evaluated last year and was primed to have the other replaced as well. He started taking these supplements, and now he claims to not have any pain in his knee and said on his latest visit his doctor read his x-ray and no longer thinks he needs the surgery? My dad also claims his shoulder feels better, and he no longer pops advil in order to get to sleep.

Is he whacked, or has there been some conclusive proof on this stuff?

[Tom]

That's what my doc says. The jury's still out, I've only been regularly taking 2000mg a day for about 10 weeks. The hip still hurts from time to time.

The funny thing is, I seem to be able to flap my ears like a bird's wings and I never could do that before.

[pbbob]

I take the stuff ever since I had my knee scoped for torn cartilage in the hope that I can put off any future need for a total knee. I don't take it for pain since I have never had any just have a lot of wear due to too manymissed layups in younger days. there is no conclusive evidence for it yet, but there seems to be no down side to taking it either. the washington post did an interesting article on it in the tuesday health section earlier this year. this and fish oils are the only supplements I would ever consider.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . after my doctor reccommended I go read an article in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA). He noted that he was sold after reading the story because JAMA is traditionally VERY conservative in what they publish and reccommend.

I did go find the article and it reviewed the various research done on the supplement and it’s efficacy. Then it stated that there was very good evidence that it does do SOMETHING. The article concluded that while the exact extent of the benefits was still open to debate, there WAS enough evidence to recommend that anyone with joint problems or potential arthritis vulnerability (and that’s me all over) should take it.

So since then I’ve taken it twice a day. Will it make a big difference? I may never know until I’m in my seventies and see what condition my joints are in. But I feel it’s a very worthwhile speculative investment after seeing my parents, both in their late seventies, hobbling around the house and clearly unable to go out and do much of anything, much less ride a bike.

BBDave

[Richard]

I believe that it does do something. The things I've read seem to confirm that in about 75% of the users there is more than a placebo effect. It is important to pay attention to the brand, though. I've seen analyses that show that many of the products sold don't come close to meeting the claimed dosages. I've seen analyses of Puritan's Pride and they are the cheapest brand that actually delivers the label claim. Many expensive ones do, too, but you can save your money.

[Too Tall]

Timmy, the studies are over. It works and BB has a good reference to cite. Results are going to vary and good news is that there are few if any contraindications for consumption. I've pasted below a very reliable place to research. Look esp. hard at MSM and if interested call me direct and I'll give you details. What I've learned about treating athletes for aches pains and strains is to only treat as needed and not to prevent and use the most innocuous solutions first.

Whatever supplement you go with find a source you are sure produces to the highest standards and has the certs. to prove it.

http://www.supplementwatch.com/supatoz/supplement.asp?supplementId=145

[zap]

Tim,

WSJ had an article earlier this week. According to the article, there is conflicting data but bottom line is that at the very least it won't hurt but very well could help. If that makes any sense. As Too Tall stated, it is very very important to purchase supplements from reputable sources.

[BumbleBeeDave]

Are you a doctor? I was unaware . . . (more than usual!)

BBDave

[Kevin]

I swear by the stuff. I have been taking it for about two years. During that time I have been winning my twenty-year battle with a knee I damaged in High School. Its great.

Kevin

[TimB]

Thanks all.

I've not yet started taking it, but now...am considering it more seriously. Osteoarthritis seems common in my paternal relatives - my father and his brothers and a couple of his sisters all have it, my older sister (mid-40s) also has some early signs. So, basically, I'm looking at this the same way I look at my Zocor: An ounce of prevention and all that.

[mfb1001]

Has there been anything said about how it helps on carpal tunnel(sp). I've got that along with a bad shoulder, and after 60 miles it radiates thru the upper back. I've been told that, that might help. Anyone w/experiance??

[Too Tall]

BBD, no I am not a doc just play one on TV.

Tim, than don't take it. Sounds like you are not having your siblings issues yet so wait.

[MartyE]

Be aware that there are 2 forms of Glucosamine, the Glucosamine Sulfate form
and Glucosamine Hydrocloride. Studies suggest that the HCL form is not as
beneficial as the Sulfate form. The intial studies were conducted in Europe
using Sulfate form and as such were a little biased towards that form.
Some of the products on the market contain both Sulfate and HCL form
of glucosamine.
A number of studies seem to indicate that it is much more efficient/beneficial
when taken in conjuction with other substances (i.e. MSN or Chondrioitin).
There were a few NIH studies that suggest that Glucosamine is an effective
treatment for Osteoarthritis but that further study needed to be done
(small sample rates, limited duration of study etc.)
One interesting point is that in a double blind study 75% of subject who
received Glucosamine reported improvement in their conditions, which is felt
to be too high for this to be Placebo effect.

Marty

[dave.delano]

I, too have been taking the supplements for my post-scoped knees to keep what little tissue I have moist. It has worked great for two years now and has even eliminated what the doctor called my pre-arthritic aches in my hands & wrists.

[geoatl]

Here is a link to information from the Arthritis Foundation about glucosamine.

http://www.arthritis.org/research/bulletin/vol52no12/glucosamine.asp

As referenced in an earlier post the early European testing was extensive and had pretty positive results. Also as mentioned be careful which brands you choose as supplements are so loosely regulated that you have some companies that produce very high quality and consistent products and others do not.

Also FYI...I work for the foundation and am taking part in an 8 day SanFran to LA tour this fall that our SoCal chapter operates....here is some info about that ride.

http://www.californiacoastclassic.org/

Hope the info help.

[geoatl]

From AARP magazine

Glucosamine

Can't face the needle? Try capsules packing glucosamine, a substance extracted from shellfish. A similar remedy is chondroitin sulfate, which is extracted from animal cartilage. "They're both naturally present in human cartilage, so adding them to the diet might aid in regenerating new cartilage or repairing damaged tissue," says John H. Klippel, president of the Arthritis Foundation. Studies suggest the pain relief is similar to that provided by anti-inflammatory drugs (such as aspirin and ibuprofen), without the risks that come with long-term use (such as gastric bleeding and kidney damage). The NIH is currently studying the supplements, which are largely unregulated by the government, but that hasn't stopped Bush's doctors from putting him on the pills. Before you take them, ask your doctor for guidance (if you're allergic to shellfish, your doc may warn you off glucosamine). ConsumerLab.com, an independent testing group, recently found that several glucosamine and chondroitin products packed less than their purported dosage. To see how some popular brands rated go to ConsumerLab.com.

[pale scotsman]

that's the wonder supplement. Check out http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/1817974.stm

Looks like me mum was right. Spoonfulls a penty at the wee pale ones house.

I've been taking 3 pills a day for years and it treats me right. The knees feel good as well as the rest of my joints.

One note of caution. Do not take on an empty stomach unless you like the taste of fish oil. Yuck!

Another side effect is I can't even remember the last time I've had a cold.

[lithiapark]

I belive chondroitin/glucosamine are worth a try for everyone who has back/hip/knee aches and pains. You should use it for 6-8 weeks before you make an assessment about benefit. Have yet to see anyone have a significant side effect from it. Some data suggests a benefit in delaying cartilaginous deterioration in knees so even if you don't have problems yet, it may be worthwhile in the long run, particularly if you have a family history of bad joints.

[OldDog]

off and on. More on than off. For minor problems I -had- with ostioarthritis. I think it works. Had to try different brands as some irritated my stomach. I now use the GNC brand. Only side effect is this nasty second head that's grown... :eek: