Arch issues with shoes.

[Cicli]

For the life of me I cant find any shoes that dont make my feet want to die. Some dont even make it 10 minutes.
I seem to have pain almost imediately at my arches. Even with insoles with zerro arch support. Bont? No way. Fizik? Nope. Giro so-so. Sidi too narrow. Any sugestions? I dont know what to do but cant seem to find comfortable shoes.

[adrien]

Lake.

I have stupid high arches. Sidis feel like ballet slippers and my feet fight them. I can't even close Specialized shoes, and even Shimanos are on the last "click" of the strap.

Lakes have been a godsend. Very reasonable for carbon soles, natural leader, very roomy toe box, and plenty of room for the arch.

[Matt-H]

For the life of me I cant find any shoes that dont make my feet want to die. Some dont even make it 10 minutes.
I seem to have pain almost imediately at my arches. Even with insoles with zerro arch support. Bont? No way. Fizik? Nope. Giro so-so. Sidi too narrow. Any sugestions? I dont know what to do but cant seem to find comfortable shoes.

Are you flat footed?

[Cicli]

Are you flat footed?

I think so.

[Chris]

I have really good luck with Specialized and their different insoles.

[weisan]

I have really good luck with Specialized and their different insoles.

+1 Body Geometry or whatever they called it. :D

[ultraman6970]

The pain he has doesnt look like is the usual pronation problem, iit is right at the arch. Your knees are trailing ok?

This is what I would do... cut some pieces of handlebar tape, and put a piece in front of the arch and another one in the back, like trying to make it flatter. not at the top but like half way down the arch, front and back.

[Cicli]

The pain he has doesnt look like is the usual pronation problem, iit is right at the arch. Your knees are trailing ok?

This is what I would do... cut some pieces of handlebar tape, and put a piece in front of the arch and another one in the back, like trying to make it flatter. not at the top but like half way down the arch, front and back.

Knees dont bother me but that dosent mean all is well.

[Peter P.]

Sounds like you're a candidate to see a podiatrist or a shop/fitter that works with shoes/insoles. Maybe try one of the custom shoe manufacturers. They offer casting kits that should provide them with clues as to what ails your feet.

I'll put in another vote for the Specialized Body Geometry insoles. You may not have an arch problem but a metatarsal problem, or they could be related. The Body Geometry insoles come in three levels of arch support and metatarsal support. A Specialized dealer can easily determine what you need, and they're cheap.

[11.4]

That it happens almost instantly is indicative. If it was an arch mismatch with your shoes, and that would have helped at all, it would have taken a bit.

Wild ass guess (almost), with not much substance, is that you have a problem very common to cyclists with flat feet, which is very tight plantar fascia. You tighten them to stabilize your foot while pedaling on the ball of your foot, and they get painfully tight. Roll a tennis ball (or any harder ball about the same size, or a golf ball if you're really a masochist) under the arch of your foot, covering the whole surface. I'm guessing it'll be quite painful. In turn, it holds your foot askew, prevents you from having the pedaling action you'd like, and can lead to degenerative issues in your feet as you get older.

If this is the case, the solution (like most solutions) is painful. Just keep rolling a ball incessantly under your feet. Do it under the desk at work, while sitting on the bed at home, before you put on your cycling shoes for a ride, and so on. When your plantar fascia are supple and enjoy that massage, I hope your pain will have gone away.

If it isn't the plantar fascia, there are a number of possibilities:

1. irritated or arthritic metatarsal.
2. if the pain is near the front of the arch, inflamed sesamoids.
3. a spur.

These are all slower recoveries and may not recover totally. The spur is the most problematic. Cyclists tend to develop foot spurs in some of the oddest places, and if you have one on the front side of the heel bone or other common places, it can cause extreme pain because you are tearing muscles around the spur or because you may be bearing down directly on the spur. But I'm guessing you only have the problem when cycling and possibly when doing a few other exercises that affect the same tissues, which makes me think of the easy solution. You can have it relaxed reasonably within a week or so. Don't ride for a few days while doing this, because you don't want to tighten it up and create small localized injuries. If the problem doesn't go away, it's definitely time for an orthopedist.

[Ken Robb]

Do you have similar pain while wearing regular street or athletic shoes?

[weisan]

That it happens almost instantly is indicative. If it was an arch mismatch with your shoes, and that would have helped at all, it would have taken a bit.

Wild ass guess (almost), with not much substance, is that you have a problem very common to cyclists with flat feet, which is very tight plantar fascia. You tighten them to stabilize your foot while pedaling on the ball of your foot, and they get painfully tight. Roll a tennis ball (or any harder ball about the same size, or a golf ball if you're really a masochist) under the arch of your foot, covering the whole surface. I'm guessing it'll be quite painful. In turn, it holds your foot askew, prevents you from having the pedaling action you'd like, and can lead to degenerative issues in your feet as you get older.

If this is the case, the solution (like most solutions) is painful. Just keep rolling a ball incessantly under your feet. Do it under the desk at work, while sitting on the bed at home, before you put on your cycling shoes for a ride, and so on. When your plantar fascia are supple and enjoy that massage, I hope your pain will have gone away.

If it isn't the plantar fascia, there are a number of possibilities:

1. irritated or arthritic metatarsal.
2. if the pain is near the front of the arch, inflamed sesamoids.
3. a spur.

These are all slower recoveries and may not recover totally. The spur is the most problematic. Cyclists tend to develop foot spurs in some of the oddest places, and if you have one on the front side of the heel bone or other common places, it can cause extreme pain because you are tearing muscles around the spur or because you may be bearing down directly on the spur. But I'm guessing you only have the problem when cycling and possibly when doing a few other exercises that affect the same tissues, which makes me think of the easy solution. You can have it relaxed reasonably within a week or so. Don't ride for a few days while doing this, because you don't want to tighten it up and create small localized injuries. If the problem doesn't go away, it's definitely time for an orthopedist.

Dr. 11.4, do you mind offering your expert opinion on my thread too? :D

[Cicli]

That it happens almost instantly is indicative. If it was an arch mismatch with your shoes, and that would have helped at all, it would have taken a bit.

Wild ass guess (almost), with not much substance, is that you have a problem very common to cyclists with flat feet, which is very tight plantar fascia. You tighten them to stabilize your foot while pedaling on the ball of your foot, and they get painfully tight. Roll a tennis ball (or any harder ball about the same size, or a golf ball if you're really a masochist) under the arch of your foot, covering the whole surface. I'm guessing it'll be quite painful. In turn, it holds your foot askew, prevents you from having the pedaling action you'd like, and can lead to degenerative issues in your feet as you get older.

If this is the case, the solution (like most solutions) is painful. Just keep rolling a ball incessantly under your feet. Do it under the desk at work, while sitting on the bed at home, before you put on your cycling shoes for a ride, and so on. When your plantar fascia are supple and enjoy that massage, I hope your pain will have gone away.

If it isn't the plantar fascia, there are a number of possibilities:

1. irritated or arthritic metatarsal.
2. if the pain is near the front of the arch, inflamed sesamoids.
3. a spur.

These are all slower recoveries and may not recover totally. The spur is the most problematic. Cyclists tend to develop foot spurs in some of the oddest places, and if you have one on the front side of the heel bone or other common places, it can cause extreme pain because you are tearing muscles around the spur or because you may be bearing down directly on the spur. But I'm guessing you only have the problem when cycling and possibly when doing a few other exercises that affect the same tissues, which makes me think of the easy solution. You can have it relaxed reasonably within a week or so. Don't ride for a few days while doing this, because you don't want to tighten it up and create small localized injuries. If the problem doesn't go away, it's definitely time for an orthopedist.
Thank you very much. I only wish I had this much to offer Paceline for all I have recieved.

[Cicli]

Do you have similar pain while wearing regular street or athletic shoes?

Depends on the shoe. Worn out running shoes I do. Maybe its the stiff sole? I have a cheap pair of Bontrager touring shoes that fit great.

[11.4]

Dr. 11.4, do you mind offering your expert opinion on my thread too? :D

Which thread?

[Cicli]

Which thread?

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?p=1965740#post1965740

[weisan]

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?p=1965740#post1965740


Thank you Ti pal.

Sorry about that, 11.4 pal.

[Ken Robb]

I had BAD plantar faciitis that developed into heel spurs. Cortisone shots and custom orthotics cured me. My doc said it was important to "put out the fire" of pain first and then use proper support to prevent the stress and irritation that caused the condition. I tried custom orthotics before resorting to the shots but the pressure of the orthotics on my bone spurs was very painful. I guess "putting out the fire" with cortisone allowed me to use the orthotics for a permannet cure. The spurs even disappeared from later x-rays. :banana:

[Fivethumbs]

I have very flat feet. I have three pairs of Sidis that sit unused. I used to only use the Sidis even though they were uncomfortable. I tried Lake, Diadora and a couple others. None worked. Then I bought some Shimano shoes. They were the most comfortable. Then I put the red Specialized BG insoles in them and after that, I have had no foot issues whatsoever.

[hainy]

I have high arches and wide feet but find any arch supports just make the shoes uncomfortable. After a bit of trial and error I wear sidi mega with just the insoles that come with them which have no arch support.

[stephenmarklay]

I certainly would think it is your feet as well (not the shores). However for a long term solution I would at least investigate strengthening as well as stretching and massaging (with a ball or whatever) your feet.

If you are interested and don’t want to go down the medical path check out
http://www.amazon.com/Every-Womans-Guide-Foot-Relief/dp/1936661071

It is not just for woman but since the the shoes they wear are horrible they tend to get more problems.

[11.4]

I'd mention, more generally, that there is a strong trend in sports medicine away from propping up basic arch problems with orthotics. People with high arches tend to have their own arch support and for those folks, the issues tend to have to do with spurs, damaged metatarsals, and so on. These are properly addressed with shoes and insoles. For those with low or nonexistent arches, the trend is more to build strength in the feet so you make the problem go away.

Understand how a pronated foot works. When your arch is dropped, your knee rotates inwards and your trochanter (at the top of your femur) rotates slightly outwards. This leads to IT band problems, the classic knee problems of a pronator, and of course to foot problems. And because your heel basically rocks from side to side, it antagonizes your achilles tendon and soleus, leading to calf tightness and later to spurs.

Now if you are a pronator, stand in your bare soles and rotate your knees (not your feet) outwards until your knees are vertically over your heel. You'll notice that this pulls up your arch. Voila. You are using the strong muscles of your thighs and calves to manage your arch, which is an effective way to achieve a permanent correction. So if you just take a couple short pieces of 2x4 and start standing on the ball of your foot, and on the outer edge of your foot, and on the inner edge of your foot, and raise and lower, you'll fairly quickly build strength. There's no other part of the body that -- apart from major surgical support intervention -- we brace like we brace our feet, instead of training muscles to do it right. Time to do this right. We've just worked through a half dozen riders with pronation problems leading to spurs, IT band problems, and so on. Only one didn't respond to this training (and we're trying to figure that one out). You can get away from orthotics and their complications and use insoles only where you have to protect a spur or other localized issue. Before you buy your next pair of shoes, train your feet a bit and you may find you have many more choices available.

[don'TreadOnMe]

11.4
Very interesting re: 2x4.
But I'm not visualizing exactly what to do?
Can you describe it differently, or point me to a link?
Thanks!

[Ralph]

My foot and ankle Doc/surgeon recently sent me to a physical therapist to solve problems caused by over pronation.

[Ken Robb]

MANY people buy shoes that are too short because they think that their shoes should just barely clear the ends of their toes. Shoes should be fit from the heel to the ball of the foot so the bump where the big toe begins is even with the widest part of the shoe. Every shoe I have ever seen (ex-shoe salesman) had at least 1/2" of space ahead of their toes when a person wears the right size.
Shoes that are too short can't provide proper arch support or bend as designed if they are normal street/athletic shoes.

[11.4]

Actually, a problem for pronators is that when your arch is relaxed and high, your foot has shortened quite a bit. If you squash it flat (pronate it), you increase your foot length by quite a bit -- easily more than a half size and sometimes more than a full size. You have to size for that whole length, plus the ball of your feet will move forward and change position with regard to your cleats. It calls for some estimation and some trial-and-error. As you get your feet stronger, it will become less of a problem.

As for the 2x4 clarification: Get a piece of 2x4 about a foot long (longer than your foot, anyway). Let's start with your left foot. Stand with the left side of your left foot on the length of the 2x4 with the left side of your foot about 1 to 1-1/2 inches from the edge and with the right side of your foot hanging off the 2x4. Raise and lower the right side. Do the same with the other side of your foot hanging off. Then put the ball of your feet on the 2x4 with the rest of the foot hanging off, and again raise and lower your foot. These exercises strengthen your muscles in and around your foot and going up into your calf and even your thigh. When doing each step, work at maintaining an arch by keeping your knee rotated outwards. That will start to build the strength you need.

[don'TreadOnMe]

Thanks 11.4!

[eddief]

http://wellfeet.com/