Carbon clincher wheelset choices, need help.

[scandy]

I've got a set of 32 hole Hed belgiums, which i run anywhere from 25-38C tires on, I love them for the purpose of a wide tough rim to fit bigger tires for gravel riding (a good 50% of my riding)
but I'm looking for another wheelset to run 23-28C road tires only, something light and more road specific to up my bikes performance a little.

My road rides are typically around mountain roads, lots of climbing, lots of standing, and fast descents. Usually will be quicker under 60 mile rides, but occasionally will be an all day ride, im willing to give up some comfort though for performance, my frames comfy enough.
I'm guessing i should be looking at shallower rims but road wheels are something I dont know much about so i'm just kind of guessing.

My budget is around 1500, but would really like to stick around 1000 if possible. can do new or used. if new i'd prefer to build it myself with my choice of rim, spokes and hubs.

Any thoughs on where to start looking? I've looked at Nox composites new road rim, reynolds wheelset, HiFi, and heard good things about the bontrager aeolus wheels, though i'd have to find those used.
Seems you can spend a ton of money on carbon wheels while the stuff from brands like Nox dont seem to be any lesser quality.

Oh and these are for rim brakes.

Thoughts?

[eBAUMANN]

I own 2 sets of Reynolds attacks and they have been excellent for everything ive thrown at em.
They are one of the lightest WIDE carbon clincher rims on the market and in my experience braking performance is on par with anything enve or zipp are making.

FWIW, it just so happens that I have an extra set of brand new 2016's for sale (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=183780) that fit perfectly into the low end of your budget and would come with a full warranty. Scratch that, now spoken for ;)

They are great wheels that I personally prefer to the other shallow carbon clinchers ive ridden (zipp 202/303FC, enve 25).

As far as I know, NOX and the like are just re-branded farsports/nextie/lightbicycle etc etc with very little real R&D behind em.
They are nice rims, but for me the make or break feature of any carbon rim is braking performance and brake track durability and thats always been a bit of a gamble on these "open mold" rims in this dept.
Easy enough to build a carbon rim for disc brake use...but a whole different level to make something that will stand up to the long-term use of rim brakes.

Just my 2c.

[rnhood]

Get a pair of Dura Ace wheels as they are far better suited to mountain riding with alloy braking surfaces, and are suitably lightweight and well built. I particularly like the C24's however, if your heart is set on deep then consider the the C50 or C35.

[pdmtong]

Bora One, for either campy or shimano

Dark label
http://www.starbike.com/en/campagnolo-bora-one-35-dark-clincher-wheelset/?currency=USD

Bright label a bit cheaper
http://www.starbike.com/en/campagnolo-bora-one-35-clincher-wheelset/

[Drmojo]

great seller, has used MANY wheels
sweet price for new, light, fast carbon clinchers
buy 'em before I do!!

[Russian bear]

In your price range, Bora One via Starbike (or whatever online retailer) is the way to go.

[geordanh]

If you can afford to get some Zipp 202 rims, or a complete wheelset, these are by far my favourite in the mountains having tried both Enve and Reynolds. Can't speak to others.

Braking performance on the 202 clinchers is unbelievable and I want to say even better than on my hed belgiums, even though that's a crazy thing to say.

Never worried about a thing on fast steep descents on the 202's, and so nice and wide.

[eBAUMANN]

If you can afford to get some Zipp 202 rims, or a complete wheelset, these are by far my favourite in the mountains having tried both Enve and Reynolds. Can't speak to others.

Braking performance on the 202 clinchers is unbelievable and I want to say even better than on my hed belgiums, even though that's a crazy thing to say.

Never worried about a thing on fast steep descents on the 202's, and so nice and wide.

I rode reynolds attacks in the BR-mountains around asheville for a week, then a month later, 202's in the alps for 2 weeks...all I could think about decelerating my way from 50mph to 20mph into a switchback over some rough pavement was "man...if this front wheel blows a spoke I am TOAST." 18h on the 202's is not exactly confidence inspiring, but they were fine. I still cant figure out why they are so (comparatively) heavy though...(this goes for all FC wheels, heavy rims I guess).

For true mountain riding, I think the real magic-bullet wheelset is a pair of lightweight alloy clinchers...something like fulcrum zeros (if they were wider...) or a pacenti sl23/tune set in 24/28h. Ill take the 50g weight penalty going up for the confidence an alloy braking surface and a few extra spokes provides on the way down. Hell, one of the lightest clincher wheel sets I ever owned was a pair of alpha340's laced to tune hubs, 28/32 3x cx-ray spokes, 1250g-ish...pretty unreal.

[geordanh]

I rode reynolds attacks in the BR-mountains around asheville for a week, then a month later, 202's in the alps for 2 weeks...all I could think about decelerating my way from 50mph to 20mph into a switchback over some rough pavement was "man...if this front wheel blows a spoke I am TOAST." 18h on the 202's is not exactly confidence inspiring, but they were fine. I still cant figure out why they are so (comparatively) heavy though...(this goes for all FC wheels, heavy rims I guess).

For true mountain riding, I think the real magic-bullet wheelset is a pair of lightweight alloy clinchers...something like fulcrum zeros (if they were wider...) or a pacenti sl23/tune set in 24/28h. Ill take the 50g weight penalty going up for the confidence an alloy braking surface and a few extra spokes provides on the way down. Hell, one of the lightest clincher wheel sets I ever owned was a pair of alpha340's laced to tune hubs, 28/32 3x cx-ray spokes, 1250g-ish...pretty unreal.

Totally agree with you on alloy vs carbon in the mountains. Probably like .5 watt aero help going up and lots of stress going down.

That stans wheelset sounds awesome. On my way over to the wheelbuilder.com wheel weight calculator to try it out for myself and find some more ways to spend $$$ :banana:

[vqdriver]

I'll just toss this in here cuz its tempting me to try carbon for the first time
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=185435

[scandy]

Id try alloy if I knew id have a stiff wheelset, which, at least from my MTB experience, you get a lot more of with a carbon rim, especially as you go lighter.

[carpediemracing]

How gusty is the wind around you, and how fast do you go on descents? Any taller front wheel starts to get a bit sketchy at around 45 mph if there's gusts, and by 50 mph even a relatively windless day gets a bit hair-raising, at least for me. I'm almost positive I haven't hit 55 mph with an aero front wheel but I've hit higher speeds on box section front wheels.

When I went out to SoCal to do my training trips, I tried a number of wheels over a number of years. Box clincher (32H FiR Genesis), 16/20H Reynolds DV46, 18/24H Jet 6/9, 18/24H HED clinchers (like the Belgiums although mine I bought as complete wheelset labeled Bastogne).

My favorite set up for the long days in the mountains (6+hours, 95-115 miles, one climb took me almost 2 hours, longest descent was that same road and it took me 35 minutes with lots of switchbacks) was the Jet 9 rear and Bastogne front. The Jet 9 gave stability at higher speeds (50+ mph, especially when being passed by trucks a few feet away going 60+ mph), the front wheel was basically unaffected by gusty winds. On the same route I had some really nervous moments with the DV46 front and Jet 6 front. WHen I do those rides my goal is to be mentally comfy on the descents and try to push harder as the ride comes to a close.

If I could I'd have tried a short height carbon clincher front wheel with whatever carbon clincher rear wheel, but I don't own any wheels like that.

My weight for the FiR and Reynolds was in the 190-200 lbs range, for the HEDs more like 155-170 lbs, spanning 2004-2009 (first two) and 2010-2011 (latter, got the HEDs in early 2010).

Although the 16/20 Reynolds sounds a bit scary I've broken a spoke in a front and a rear on separate occasions without problems. I broke a front tubular in a race, raced for another hour while gingerly testing it, and decided to partake in the sprint for the finish (got 6th). The rear I broke a clincher spoke in the parking lot of a 2.5 hour ride. I did the ride anyway, and other than scraping a bunch of paint off my stay it was okay. Front spoke incident I was probably 180-185 lbs, rear spoke incident 185-190 lbs.

The rims nowadays are so strong you don't need as many spokes. It's not like the old days where a bare rim would collapse if you sat on it. This makes the spokes more of a "hub placement" thing rather than a "keep from wheel collapsing" thing.

Contrary to what I expect I find that carbon rims brake okay in the wet, as long as I have the right pads. I had dry weather Kool Stops for a while (using up 2-3 sets I owned) and in the rain they were scary. When I got salmon Kool Stops (wet/multi condition) the DV46s and later the HED Stingers were much better. They bit so well after the initial slip that when I was descending a steep hill on aluminum rims in the rain I literally panicked because the extra bite never happened. I thought I was doing to crash and I had to really think about stuff like "Okay, need to ease off the brake in this sharp curve and then get back on, and I can always ditch on the side of the road". That was one of those "yes, I definitely tightened the brake cable clamp bolts enough" situations. FiR Genesis so machined braking surfaces, I don't remember the pads I had at the time, based on my panic I'm pretty sure they were stock Campy pads or black Kool Stops.

[tuscanyswe]

I had some 202 firecrest clinchers and wasn't that impressed tbh. Not very light and yeah they were wide but i dont feel that has anywhere near the impact that most seem to say it does. They rode nice and had good breaking tho but so does most alu wheels as well. A nice set of shamals for a lot less pennies is a better buy imo. But okay you dont get the all carbon look.

[Tim Porter]

Here's another vote for something like the Fulcrum Racing Zeros, maybe the Nite version. Light enough, incredible braking, very stiff. I know that intuitively it seems that carbon is the way to go, but these wheels can be incredibly smooth and braking can be literal life savers if you're flying down mountains at 45+ mph.

[soulspinner]

If you can afford to get some Zipp 202 rims, or a complete wheelset, these are by far my favourite in the mountains having tried both Enve and Reynolds. Can't speak to others.

Braking performance on the 202 clinchers is unbelievable and I want to say even better than on my hed belgiums, even though that's a crazy thing to say.

Never worried about a thing on fast steep descents on the 202's, and so nice and wide.

Does Zipp still make 202 clinchers?

[skiezo]

For some reason I have never been a fan of carbon clinchers. I see a purpose for carbon tubulars tho. For my mountain rides I do like the confidence of a alloy wheel. These here are on my short list.
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=124575&page=7

[scandy]

It can get pretty windy around me, the more windy areas i'll ride are usually more gravel, so i'll be on my belgiums.
For mountain rides I'll maybe get up to the mid 50's at the most. lots of high speed corners. a lot of those mountain rides turn into flatter rolling terrain, or just long gradual uphills, then long gradual downhills on the way back.

[Waldo]

Does Zipp still make 202 clinchers?

Does anyone buy Zipp wheels anymore...?

[eBAUMANN]

For some reason I have never been a fan of carbon clinchers. I see a purpose for carbon tubulars tho. For my mountain rides I do like the confidence of a alloy wheel. These here are on my short list.
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=124575&page=7

tune hubs are light...but last i checked, they were entirely press-fit together...and kinda a pain in the ass to service...and both sets I had developed EXTREMELY aggravating creaks that would not go away no matter what I tried...so yea, maybe they are better now a couple years later but I kindasortamaybe wrote tune off in the hub dept after that, DT stuff just works too well.

[WickedWheels]

HED just dropped the price on the Jet series of wheels. JET 16's now have an MSRP of $1600. They're 1700g, which is respectable, with an alloy braking surface, wide rim and aero. If you're not looking for featherweight, these should be the cat's meow. Certainly a better option than the Cosmic Carbon SLS from Mavic. Slightly heavier than Reynolds carbon clinchers, but these will have the benefit of alloy braking.

And if you don't need aero and want lighter then anything built up on the Ardennes/Belgium rims should be pretty light. You can get stuff from them, from Chris King, from Ergott or from your local bike shop. $1000 should get you a 1500g set of nice non-aero wheels on a cool hub.

Just sayin'...

[scandy]

The curve cc38 and november rail 34 seem like pretty good quality, lower price carbon rims. Not quite as light as I was wanting but think they'd be good stiffness wise while also getting some aero benefit too.
Any other rims out there similar to those?
I'm still liking the NOX rims, they may be re-branded but seem like they're a pretty well thought out rim. just cant find any reviews on them.

[eBAUMANN]

I'm still liking the NOX rims, they may be re-branded but seem like they're a pretty well thought out rim. just cant find any reviews on them.

I agree, they APPEAR to be very well thought out, I just dont think there has been enough real world long-term testing for anyone to really be able to give em a stamp of approval. Im talking strictly about the braking surface here.

Any company can make a structurally sound carbon rim these days, its the braking surfaces that seem to big the real point of improvement/R&D for every product refresh.

[scandy]

Found a used set of enve 3.4s. If everything looks good may just go with those. I'm a little sketched out buying used carbon but it's a very good deal.
Anyone know much about the jones carbon rim? Think they make a 38ish deep rim. Incase the enves fall through.