Electric Bike Expo Palo Alto Report. Next stop: Portland=May and Denver=June

[pdmtong]

I went to the Palo Alto event today. Simply awesome. Rode all the mfg and their incarnations. And didn't sweat!

Rode a loaded tourer, a 6" mtb, commuter, classic Moto style, xtracycle long bike, fat bike, townie and more.

Now I get why the euros love e-mtb. A bit too slow into the section? No problem with e-assist. Yea cheating but maybe one day when I am very old

Commute without sweat? No problem.

Definitely liked the feel of the crank based systems (Bosch and continental) over the rear hub/wheel systems

Coming to Portland in May and Denver in June.

No matter what you may think if this comes your way it is worth checking out.

Saw forum member "sevencyclist" there too!

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160425/10ecc989c397bcd4cc526983f3be72ce.jpg

[happycampyer]

Much safer in the pro peloton than discs. I think the UCI should consider allowing them on an experimental basis.

[AngryScientist]

i would love to check them out. i think e-bikes are a great idea for many people. the better the technology gets, the more useful these bikes will start to become and the price will start to come down, a good thing!

[enr1co]

i would love to check them out. i think e-bikes are a great idea for many people. the better the technology gets, the more useful these bikes will start to become and the price will start to come down, a good thing!


+1 on Angrys thoughts- hope battery tech continues to improve and e-bikes become more available and adopted.

Unfortunately the US is a late adopter in this space. In many places outside the US, std "city" style bikes are already commonplace for daily, urban, utilitarian transportation.

Was in Tokyo area a couple weeks ago and urban e-bikes are already all over the place, in use by all ages, e.g. saw many women, carrying 1-2 small kids while going the market for daily grocery.

[p nut]

Fully support for commuters. Looks like some pretty cool bikes in production.

But please keep them off of non-motorized trails.

[sonnyhooper]

This is an interesting concept and I'm not sure I care for these types of bikes.

SH

[enr1co]

I"m ok with e-bikes on non motorized trails and bikepaths, multi use paths - it"s the stupid, reckless, disrespectful riders of bikes (electric or std) that i have issue with.

[Dead Man]

ebikes that dont pretend to be non-ebikes, i guess im cool with. But ebikes that make efforts to conceal that theyre ebikes? The words that i would use to describe my feelings for that wouldnt be well received here (in fact i was banned from my own race association forum for expressing them there) .. Not that my opinion matters in any way, but we're all giving em

First ebike i ever saw, it was this fat dude CRUISIN up a kinda nasty hill, all commutered out.. Couldnt even figure out what i was seeing till i got up parallel to him and checked his crap out, and realized his rear hub was huge and there appeared to be a massive battery bolted to his rack.

Dont know how i feel about it.. I mean, he was fat and on a bike- i freaking LOVE seeing fat people on bikes. My spirit animal reaches out and slaps the ass of fat-dude-on-a-bike's spirit animal and says "YEA buddy! Take back control of your health and life!" when i see that ****. Love it. On the other hand, he was kinda pedalling.. But man that battery was huge and he wasnt sweating. That hill should have been making him work. How good of a workout is he really getting on his probably 1.5 mile commute, sometimes pedaling?

[Joxster]

1697919079

My plaything, Di2 Alfine 500Wh Battery

[R3awak3n]

the city bike/bike share in Madrid has electric bikes and people were ridding them all over the place.

[p nut]

I"m ok with e-bikes on non motorized trails and bikepaths, multi use paths - it"s the stupid, reckless, disrespectful riders of bikes (electric or std) that i have issue with.

Irony of that statement...

Think of the typical person hitting the trails on these bikes. Obviously, not a lot of experience MTBing, hence the need for an e-MTB. So let's strap a bike 2x heavier and 10x faster on these beginners and see how they do. I couldn't care less if they hurt themselves in the process, but for my safety, my kids, other kids, not to mention the current losing battle of open MTB trails, they should be banned. E-bikes will only make the situation worse, not better.

And for Pete's sake, think of what it will do to the Strava leaderboards!! :D

[d_douglas]

I am of mixed opinion of e-bikes.

I used to think they were goofy, but after talking to a local e-bike only shop, the owner simply said that it gets more people out exercising. True, exercise may not be highly aerobic, but better that than driving a car (which, sadly, I did today).

She lives about 30km away from her shop, and while fit, she said that she would rarely ride if using a conventional bike. With her e-bike, she rides nearly everyday.

I don't own one and don't plan to in the next many, many years, but one day, I may just have one as a means of getting around.

[fuzzalow]

I am all for it. Bring it! The more e-bikes the better.

Anything that puts more people on bikes, the better. Anything that lowers the carbon footprint for ways to get transport integrated & accepted to a diverse populace, the better.

All the growing pains of a multi-faceted infrastructure to solving personal transport, it too will be solved.

C'mon. stop being elitist. Look at the bigger picture and the goals in solving the bigger problems than looking down at newly minted riders of e-bikes.

[azrider]

I am all for it. Bring it! The more e-bikes the better.

Anything that puts more people on bikes, the better. Anything that lowers the carbon footprint for ways to get transport integrated & accepted to a diverse populace, the better.

All the growing pains of a multi-faceted infrastructure to solving personal transport, it too will be solved.

C'mon. stop being elitist. Look at the bigger picture and the goals in solving the bigger problems than looking down at newly minted riders of e-bikes.

Here here. As cyclists we stand to benefit anytime there are more of us on the streets/roads and if they gotsa' motor. Who cares.

Few months ago a cat creeped up on me and passed me doing 26ish mph (sans helmet of course) so I downshifted and grabbed his wheel. He had no clue I was back there and got a kick out of it when he spotted me at the next light...."dang your fast son!!"...it was the nicest thing 'cycling related' a stranger had ever told me

This is almost identical to what he was cruising on

http://images.craigslist.org/00U0U_azOmyA709Kv_600x450.jpg

[Dead Man]

Here here. As cyclists we stand to benefit anytime there are more of us on the streets/roads and if they gotsa' motor. Who cares.

Few months ago a cat creeped up on me and passed me doing 26ish mph (sans helmet of course) so I downshifted and grabbed his wheel. He had no clue I was back there and got a kick out of it when he spotted me at the next light...."dang your fast son!!"...it was the nicest thing 'cycling related' a stranger had ever told me

This is almost identical to what he was cruising on

http://images.craigslist.org/00U0U_azOmyA709Kv_600x450.jpg

That's a dirty bike, tho.. different than ebike

I've tried to hitch rides on those guys... at least around here, in Tweakerville, the converted string-trimmer motor 2-stroke MTBs dudes ride around on spit out so much smoke I can't even draft 'em.

[azrider]

That's a dirty bike, tho.. different than ebike

I've tried to hitch rides on those guys... at least around here, in Tweakerville, the converted string-trimmer motor 2-stroke MTBs dudes ride around on spit out so much smoke I can't even draft 'em.

Yeah I get there's huge diff between what i posted and e-bike's.....i'm just saying that more people on two wheel bicycle-ish machines is fine by me

ha....tweakerville.....well played. It's pretty easy to deduce that majority of these dudes who're 'riding dirty' are doing so because of an issue with their DL

[Pelican]

Didn't realize there would be any PL'ers at the event. Would have been happy to let you guys test ride our new Karmic Koben. I'm thinking about driving up/out to the Portland and Denver events too.

You guys already know how I feel about ebikes. ;)

[pdmtong]

While the throttle bikes were sit back push button and go, it would take me some practice to use a pedal assist on the open road. on the test track I would just spin for a few seconds and coast. spin and coast. while in real life I think you would be half pedaling and zooming. of course the challenge is life at 25mph+ in a neighborhood with intersections and driveways i a lot faster than the speed I am used to going. so the danger of t-bone or collision has to be managed

most people at the demo had no handling skills. I could easily carve inside them and accelerate around them. so in a pack, yikes. many weren't even looking behind when they made turns.

I really liked the continental design with the variable electric shifting - kind of rohloff-esque where you could dial the gearing and assist to match your cadence.

lots of choices here. wish I could have gotten there earlier but not yet in the market and spent the time riding earlier in the day.

[fuzzalow]

Two things about pdmtong's post ^ caught my eye:

The mention of 25+ mph speeds - yikes are these e-bike governed as in limited to top speed?
General mayhem for the lack of skill of the rider/operators of these e-bikes

25+mph is much too fast. Granted there needs to be enough motor power to move the machine so an underpowered motor is not the solution but a speed limiter tied to the speedometer is. An e-bike is not a substitute for a Vespa -type scooter - which in NYS requires license plates, subject to driver's license and I presume, insurance of some kind.

If e-bikes are allowed 25+mph that is a speed that few seasoned experienced cyclists posses as a cruising speed. To allow any new rider to jack it up on an e-bike to this speed is asking for trouble. It's a e-bike - can't make 'em pedal when they want the motor to do everything but it's gotta be slow enough to still be a bike. It's not a scooter and not a motorcycle

Most people cannot drive a motor vehicle with any skill whatsoever and this obliviousness will transfer to an e-bike. The only good thing about this is that on an e-bike they will take the hit for their lack of skill in flesh & bone rather than the impunity of sheet metal as they'd get to blow-off as a motorist. I don't wanna see anybody get hurt but I got no problem with any rider bearing individual responsibility and consequences. ;)

[pdmtong]

Two things about pdmtong's post ^ caught my eye:

The mention of 25+ mph speeds - yikes are these e-bike governed as in limited to top speed?
General mayhem for the lack of skill of the rider/operators of these e-bikes

25+mph is much too fast. Granted there needs to be enough motor power to move the machine so an underpowered motor is not the solution but a speed limiter tied to the speedometer is. An e-bike is not a substitute for a Vespa -type scooter - which in NYS requires license plates, subject to driver's license and I presume, insurance of some kind.

If e-bikes are allowed 25+mph that is a speed that few seasoned experienced cyclists posses as a cruising speed. To allow any new rider to jack it up on an e-bike to this speed is asking for trouble. It's a e-bike - can't make 'em pedal when they want the motor to do everything but it's gotta be slow enough to still be a bike. It's not a scooter and not a motorcycle

Most people cannot drive a motor vehicle with any skill whatsoever and this obliviousness will transfer to an e-bike. The only good thing about this is that on an e-bike they will take the hit for their lack of skill in flesh & bone rather than the impunity of sheet metal as they'd get to blow-off as a motorist. I don't wanna see anybody get hurt but I got no problem with any rider bearing individual responsibility and consequences. ;)

the test "track" had a long straight. you could go from 10mph to 25mph by easily "spinning' 3-4 quick revolutions and zoom, the wind is now in your face.

sure you have a hydro disk to stop you - unless you crash first.

I only went 25 because I ran out of straight. these things have a limiter that caps off in the mid-30s. this is what is frightening.

the bikes I tried all had a variable boost setting...none-low-med-high-turbo. more boost, more battery drain.

the fun about the expo is you just go booth-booth and grab a bike and go. if it's there, you go ride it. there was an e-bike with a side car attached. I should have taken a picture. that tells you we are not in Kansas anymore.

[Dead Man]

Cars can pretty much all go 100+... But the vast majority of people dont. Just cuz an ebike can do 35 or even 25 doesnt mean soccer moms are going to be hitting top speeds between residential stop signs

[Pelican]

I only went 25 because I ran out of straight. these things have a limiter that caps off in the mid-30s. this is what is frightening.

What bike were you riding? The course was so short most people couldn't hit 20mph if they wanted to. And all the bikes should have been limited to 20 or 28mph. That's what the law requires.

Are you sure you weren't looking at the speedometer in km/h since most of the bikes were European.

This fear of ebikes is so unreasonable until you've tried them yourself or learn how they work. The assumption that customers can't "handle those speeds" like a "real cyclist" is just inane.

[fuzzalow]

sure you have a hydro disk to stop you - unless you crash first.

:D . Reminds me of what my insurance broker told me when I insured a Ducati superbike with him: It is usually "all or none" in the first 6 months for policies he used to underwrite on sport bikes. Which is why he didn't do that business anymore unless he knew you.

I only went 25 because I ran out of straight. these things have a limiter that caps off in the mid-30s. this is what is frightening.

Most DMV assign restrictions based on the speed capacity of the vehicle. I dunno how NYS does this so I looked it up as defined as a limited use motorcycle which is how scooters/mopeds are classified:
Class B: >20-30mph and
Class C: 20mph or less.
Both B & C classes do not require a MC license. Class B requires insurance but Class C does not and all require registration which I presume means a license plate on the vehicle. But all of this is for a gas powered vehicle.

By extension, this legal structure means that there is public risk and liability to operators of e-bikes based on the power and capacity of the vehicle. Just as is implied in power ratings for gas-powered vehicles to inflict damage in an accident through any combination of vehicle speed and operator incompetence. However, neither the vehicle or operator of e-bike is regulated by DMV. That is why e-bikes cannot be high powered in order to keep the public risk under control.

An e-bike to NYS DMV Regs is a motor assisted bicycle and is illegal on any street or highway that allows public motor vehicle traffic. Yowza! Really!? Tell that to all the food delivery guys in Manhattan! I guess that is just too small fish to hook and fry for the NYPD.

Why do I bring this up? Because there is a growth market perceived for e-bikes until the loopholes and the definitions in DMV statute are defined or closed in all the municipalities on how they handle e-bikes.

There is a way for e-bike operators to skirt the rules and escape liability in using the e-bike, which I guess is part of the attraction for the tweaker-class of operator to operate a vehicle at the risk to everyone else wile running on the cheap. If and when these schmucks screw up or hurt somebody, they'll just run away.

I like e-bikes. I want to see them prosper if it furthers alternative transportation away from 15mpg SUVs and endless cars with single occupants. I'd like to see the vendors & manufacturers of these e-bikes prosper. But I don't want to see chaos. And most importantly, I don't want to see people taken out by riders on e-bikes that ride irresponsibly.

[pdmtong]

Forgot the bike model but basically as soon as I got off that down ramp right I was charging the long straight.

That said I agree. Try one. It's eye opening.