How to Choose Power Training Zones for Road Profile

[Splash]

How do I know which Power Training Zones to target for training for particular road profiles?

For example, I obtain the course profile from Strava - which shows course elevation, gradient, distance.

How would I know which power zones to target for training so that I can optimise my performance for the entire duration of this course on the day of competition?


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[gasman]

Get a coach, really.
Joachim posts here. I've been working with him since mid-Jan and he has made a world of difference for me. He communicates well and will customize what you need.

[nate2351]

Start here:

https://www.velopress.com/books/training-and-racing-with-a-power-meter-2nd-ed/

[Splash]

Thanks Guys.

Cannot afford a coach.

How do riders plan for their route with their power training zones, with known gradients, distance, etc.?


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[ergott]

Know what sort of power you can put out for given time periods. Then look at climbs and estimate your time up. Then you can peg a rough number and go. For example, I can nail 90% threshold for one of my favorite climbs and not have a problem with the rest of the ride.

Unless you have a few months of data under your belt you won't have much to go on beyond instinct and perhaps heart rate as a guide.

Get the Coggan book, it's great

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[kramnnim]

Is it a TT or a road race or?

[Splash]

Thanks Guys.

No TT, just road races between 100 and 200km distances.

I will buy that book.

Is there a way of determining certain parts of the route into zones, (such as Z2, Z3, etc..)?


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[kramnnim]

Based on your other post...it sounds like you need to focus on staying with the group. Unless you'll be racing with slower people than the ones you posted about.

Figure out when you're likely to get dropped- small hills that the others are hitting with a short, punchy effort? Longer, 10 minute hills?

Basically...train the areas you're weakest in. If you must divide it into zones, base it on the hills and how long it will take you to climb them.

[ergott]

Thanks Guys.

No TT, just road races between 100 and 200km distances.

I will buy that book.

Is there a way of determining certain parts of the route into zones, (such as Z2, Z3, etc..)?


Splash
It's kinda tough to do any of that in a race. You're better off reading the race as it happens and analyzing the data after. The Race dictates the pace, not your power meter.

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[nate2351]

It's kinda tough to do any of that in a race. You're better off reading the race as it happens and analyzing the data after. The Race dictates the pace, not your power meter.

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Exactly. Unless you're off the front don't worry about power during the race.

[shovelhd]

Racing doesn't work like that. You can study and train and analyze all you want but it all comes down to pinning on a number. Just do it.

[nate2351]

How do riders plan for their route with their power training zones, with known gradients, distance, etc.?


This totally depends on the workout you're doing. For example, if you're going all day at 200, you go all day at 200 and dont push it on the climbs. But if you're doing hill repeats at vO2 on a 5 minute hill you shoot for holding your vO2 power.

[bewheels]

The recommended book will help.

Basically there is training and there is racing. Ideally you are basing your training on what type of racing you want to do. The training prepares you for those types of race efforts.

One thing to be really careful of is getting too freaked out about numbers during a race. You can mentally sabotage a race by seeing numbers that you don't think you 'can' do. I would go so far as to recommend that you do not look at the data during the race because either you are sticking with the group or you are not, regardless of what the numbers are telling you. If your goal is to be able to finish with the pack, and you use a Garmin, set-up a screen view so that you can not see your power number or heart rate and just race with the pack. The data you collect doing this will be very helpful in determining the training plan. As you get better at reading the post event number you also want to overlay things like - 'I nearly got dropped on that section' because it will show you what type of effort happens that puts you in trouble...thus what you can work on.

Time trailing and/or being in a break change the above statement.

If you can not afford a coach, get the book mentioned above. The book is thorough and explains all of this.

[stephenmarklay]

A lot of great info here. Another thought based on your other post and to add to bewheels post, there is training, racing and just riding.

Be very careful to distinguish going out with the pack of buddies at a pretty fast clip all the time. This can stagnate your progress.

When I am serious I train alone. I do my short intervals inside, I ride hill intervals on a known hill, etc etc. I ride with the racy group on Saturday or Sunday to see how I am progressing.

[shovelhd]

Start here:

https://www.velopress.com/books/training-and-racing-with-a-power-meter-2nd-ed/

One thing about this book that hasn't been mentioned. Inside are sample training plans with workouts. They are a great place to start to learn structured training, and you will get race ready if you follow them closely.

[Splash]

Agree

Some really great advice. So good to be on this forum.

Stephen, a great point on riding with buddies All the time and that you train alone.

Shovel - how do those plans compare to TrainerRoad Plans?

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[Wayne77]

Thanks Guys.

Cannot afford a coach.

How do riders plan for their route with their power training zones, with known gradients, distance, etc.?


Splash

Here's a bunch of random thoughts...stream of conscious style...

There are plenty others around here far more experienced in this than I am... It's not about setting particular power zones per the particulars of the road, it's about knowing your FTP, and knowing based on experience what kind of Normalized Power or % of FTP you can sustain for a given length of effort, etc. Whether you're on rollers or the flats, the power you can sustain should be the same (accounting for the fact that the steeper the road gets, the harder it is to kick out the same power numbers).

Doing a lot of organized power based training sessions during the off season can go a long way in determining how your body behaves at 85% of FTP, FTP, 130% of FTP, etc. This is exactly where having a coach goes a long way - he/she will set you up with a regimen that will target these training zones, with specific workouts designed for high intensity threshold work, sweet-spot training, rapid recovery, etc. but I get the affordability thing... So in lieu of that, you can get hooked up with Training Peaks, and knowing the type of events you're training for and your weak areas, you can download a host of different power based training profiles / workout plans.

Or just go race, keep an eye on your power numbers during the race, do some post race analysis of your power numbers and that will go a long way to helping you understand how your body behaves at different thresholds. If you're not doing this and ride with a power meter, in a sense your just riding with an overpriced head unit.

That said, I TOTALLY agree with the comment that in a race, don't get too hung up on numbers. You can either hang or you can't. But if you know "hanging" is not your issue and you really know yourself and you're experienced enough to know the numbers you can maintain for climbing, chasing down a break, being in a break, recovering to catch back on, etc - then real-time PM monitoring can be very useful. In my opinion this seems more like Cat3 and up racing...most of us journeymen Cat 3/4s benefit more from the post race analysis (as opposed to keeping your head focused on your head unit) and don't have the insight to be closely monitoring power numbers during a race. Again...just my opinion.

I have a buddy that cares TOO much about his numbers during a race. He'll always be saying things like "I was doing 350 watts over that last set of rollers Im totally overdoing it". Honestly, most races where I'm at my limit My IQ plummets and I don't even know what the numbers mean...All I know is some primeval instinct MUST HOLD WHEEL and somehow I do it. I suspect my power numbers might have been saying "no you can't no you can't no you can't"

You might look into who offers Computrainer bases indoor training sessions (during the offseason) in your area...it may be within your budget

Read "Training with Power" too.

There are some pretty standard power zones profiles out there - one standard profile that you see is the Coggins approach, which I believe is what Training Peaks uses... 7 zones and if you have a nice head unit, you can set it up to display the zone you're in and know based on zone what type of effort that is designed for and how long your body can theoreticall maintain it.

[John H.]

1st of all- do some testing and figure out what your zones are.
Then decide if you want to "ride" or "train"- they are not necessarily the same thing.
If you want to train- your normal loop may or may not be worthwhile.
Most of training comes down to holding blocks of power for specified amounts of time- I.E. Intervals.
Usually intervals work best when you can keep doing similar work. This may involve riding the same stretch of road repeatedly, or same climb.
When you are doing endurance type riding you should seek to maximize time spent in the zone that you are targeting. Often times this means you need to ride steady on the flats, ease off on the climbs and keep pedaling when possible on downgrades- this is pretty opposite of what a group tends to do.
If you choose to train it usually works better alone or with another like-minded individual. If you try to do it with a group, either you end up looking like an ass-clown or other riders tend to come over the top of you when you keep it steady rather than accelerate.

[MattTuck]

Are you trying to get a contract with Team Sky?

;)

[John H.]

Matt,
You are better than that.

Are you trying to get a contract with Team Sky?

;)

[MattTuck]

Matt,
You are better than that.

For those that don't follow professional racing, team sky has been 'accused' of taking the fun out of grand tours, by setting pace based on their power read outs. The thinking goes that this takes a lot of the spontaneity and dynamism out of the race as everyone just rides, staring at their cycle computer.

My comment was an allusion to that approach, and really more of a poke at Sky.

[Joachim]

How do I know which Power Training Zones to target for training for particular road profiles?

For example, I obtain the course profile from Strava - which shows course elevation, gradient, distance.

How would I know which power zones to target for training so that I can optimise my performance for the entire duration of this course on the day of competition?


Splash

Lots of advice here. I'm more than willing to point you in the right direction with determining your power zones and get you started with some basic workouts on which you can build further as you get stronger. Just loading your week with group rides that are too hard for you, are not going to benefit you long term. Doing them occasionally yes and training within your 'limits' the rest of the time, will give you much better overall aerobic fitness. That in turn will help you stay longer on the group rides which in turn will benefit you even further. PM me if you would like some basic help to get started.

[shovelhd]

Agree

Some really great advice. So good to be on his forum.

Stephen, a great point on riding with buddies All the time and that you train alone.

Shovel - how do those plans compare to TrainerRoad Plans?

Splash

I don't know anything about those plans, only what's in the book. I used the 16 week FTP builder when I returned to racing in 2010. I won a bunch of stuff. I'd take Joachim up on his generous offer.

[Splash]

PM me if you would like some basic help to get started.

thanks Joachim.

Will do.

Splash