Power Meter options for 10spd Sram Red Crank

[frank_h]

I have converted to the church of power and am looking to move from my borrowed test setup to a permanent solution.

However, I have several nitpicky issues that I was hoping the group might be able to help me sort out from personal experience.

Current setup

CAAD 10
Sram Red 10spd Crank 172.5 w/ Powerglide rings


Important to me and deal breakers(?)

This is a WW build - PM shouldn't add much weight (stages = +)
I love my red crank (stages = -)
I love my DA900 pedals (vectors = -)
I utilize multiple wheelsets on this bike, as well as a trainer, and couldn't rely on a hub PM


So I would like to do this to minimize weight and cost. If I could go stages and keep my current setup, this would be optimal. However, the carbon stages only works with the newer Red crank. Vectors change my pedals, cleats, and add a ton of weight. I really want to keep my DA pedals. Power2max setups are nice, but again dont' work with my older Red crank and add a lot of weight compared to stages.

Seems like I could go Stages with some second hand searching, but I think it's going to require:

Buy the stages carbon BB30 Red 22 option (when it should finally come back in stock)
Hunt down a used Red 22 crankset (preferably sans rings)
Praxis rings since I am still 10spd and would need to swap to different rings (right?)


This setup would bump the cost up from the PM alone purchase, but it would give me power for 20g. However, adding praxis, I would save even more weight and end up with power for less weight, but more cost.

I will also add this: the build isn't WW just to be such, but this is for a competitive big ascent build for a pretty light guy. I've spent a year shaving weight for as little cost as possible, and adding power by gaining too much weight on an already minimized bike would be pretty hard to swallow. Hopefully I don't cause too many eyes to roll.

What do you power men and women recommend for my situation? I have been banging my head against the wall for many months now trying to figure this out. :confused::crap:

[parallelfish]

I am in a similar situation. No power meters made for my particular crank set, use multiple wheels...etc.

Currently considering the PowerPod. There is a favorable review on the DC Rainmaker site.

[chiasticon]

if you're going WW for it, stages is really the only option. also if that causes you to get the new red 22 crankset, then no worries: it's lighter and stiffer than the 10 speed version. its also decently cheap ($230-ish I think) from Merlin right now. I'm not sure how much the stages new carbon arm with the sensor weighs over the red 22 arm. the sensor is pretty light though (20ish grams I think). so you could go that route. and if you want the Praxis rings over sram ones then just buy the crankset and sell the rings. I did that: $235 for crankset and sold the rings for $100. Praxis is a bit more than that for rings, but not a lot.

another option is using the powertap C1 rings. they add roughly 150 grams (their claim; over what set of rings, I don't know). but they're not available in all chainring sizes or BCD's. as long as you're on 110 BCD though, it would be a very simple swap. might not even add much more weight over stages option; again, since I don't know what their new arm weighs vs red 22 arm.

I'll say this though: I hated my stages. it was the gen 1 version (but with increasing gens of battery doors as they sent me a new one every month). my power2max has been rock solid though; through cx season, winter and now into spring/summer and no issues so far. I don't mind that it weighs a bit more because I don't race road and during cx season it goes on the pit bike (which is then also the practice and road bike for the season). I'd rather it weigh more and actually work, really.

[benb]

I would just find a way to get a Red 22 crankset and then get the stages PM that matches it when it comes back in stock.

I'm running an 11-speed 6800 crank + stages PM on my Ultegra 6700 10-speed bike and it's fine. Check if SRAM changed the inner dimension of the chain when they went from 10-speed to 11-speed. Chances are they didn't change it, just like Shimano, and that setup works fine. Shimano kept the inside of the chain the same and thinned the plates so the outside dimension is smaller. It matters for the cassette but not for the chainrings.

The bonus there is you've also got one of the most expensive components out of the way if/when it's time to replace stuff and you decide to go 11 speed.

I got 2 stages for this season, I've got about 1000 miles on one of them and 400 on the other, with all the changes they've made mine have been completely rock solid in rain, snow, salt, freezing weather. They have been used in very little good weather so far unfortunately but it's finally getting nice here. The only thing I occasionally see is Ant+ interference, but I'm not sure whether that's the stages or my Garmin as when it happens it knocks out all the sensors, not just the Stages. I have a Fenix 3 (watch) so it's possible it has an inferior antenna compared to the larger Edge units.

I think we determined it's not much but you can save a little if you're replacing the whole crank by buying a crankset off eBay, etc.. and then just buying the left arm direct from stages. ($50-100 depending on model?)

[hollowgram5]

If you like your Dura Ace pedals, I think Garmin is now offering a conversion kit for their Vectors to use Ultegra bodies. Might be worth looking into, but probably not an ideal option.. Let me see if I can dig up the link in a bit...

[ergott]

Power2Max crank and forget about your crank. The price is under $1k and you get more reliable data than Stages can give you.

[chiasticon]

maybe I misunderstood your post since it said "since I am still 11spd." I think you meant "still 10spd" right? if so, my ring recommendations might be off...

from what Zinn has said on VN, you can use 10 speed rings with an otherwise 11 speed group (and vice versa) just make sure you use the appropriate chain. also, I've done this; it's been fine.

[sitzmark]

Never mind - thought you listed Red GXP as current ...


Lightest option is going to be switch of cranks / stages as others suggest. You'll need to decide if weight or meter type is more important. Satisfaction reports for Stages vary greatly.

FWIW - I am using P-Tap P1 pedals on my CAAD 10 with Hollowgram SI crank. Makes it easy to port same power readings to all of my bikes. If you switched to Hollowgram/OPI & Stages you'd see WW savings, but $$.

[benb]

And unless this is your "Mt Washington/Mt Evans exclusive climbing bike" the benefit of training with power (assuming you have a training plan and/or coach and follow them) will help you more than a few grams in weight difference. (Actually the PM is probably still more beneficial there)

[frank_h]

if you're going WW for it, stages is really the only option. also if that causes you to get the new red 22 crankset, then no worries: it's lighter and stiffer than the 10 speed version. its also decently cheap ($230-ish I think) from Merlin right now. I'm not sure how much the stages new carbon arm with the sensor weighs over the red 22 arm. the sensor is pretty light though (20ish grams I think). so you could go that route. and if you want the Praxis rings over sram ones then just buy the crankset and sell the rings. I did that: $235 for crankset and sold the rings for $100. Praxis is a bit more than that for rings, but not a lot.

another option is using the powertap C1 rings. they add roughly 150 grams (their claim; over what set of rings, I don't know). but they're not available in all chainring sizes or BCD's. as long as you're on 110 BCD though, it would be a very simple swap. might not even add much more weight over stages option; again, since I don't know what their new arm weighs vs red 22 arm.

I'll say this though: I hated my stages. it was the gen 1 version (but with increasing gens of battery doors as they sent me a new one every month). my power2max has been rock solid though; through cx season, winter and now into spring/summer and no issues so far. I don't mind that it weighs a bit more because I don't race road and during cx season it goes on the pit bike (which is then also the practice and road bike for the season). I'd rather it weigh more and actually work, really.

Buying the crank, selling the rings, and going praxis + stages is probably the highest on my list. Good point in the rings almost canceling out. THe C1 rings looked awesome, but iirc were listed as not compatible with the carbon/red cranks.

I would just find a way to get a Red 22 crankset and then get the stages PM that matches it when it comes back in stock.

I'm running an 11-speed 6800 crank + stages PM on my Ultegra 6700 10-speed bike and it's fine. Check if SRAM changed the inner dimension of the chain when they went from 10-speed to 11-speed. Chances are they didn't change it, just like Shimano, and that setup works fine. Shimano kept the inside of the chain the same and thinned the plates so the outside dimension is smaller. It matters for the cassette but not for the chainrings.

The bonus there is you've also got one of the most expensive components out of the way if/when it's time to replace stuff and you decide to go 11 speed.

I got 2 stages for this season, I've got about 1000 miles on one of them and 400 on the other, with all the changes they've made mine have been completely rock solid in rain, snow, salt, freezing weather. They have been used in very little good weather so far unfortunately but it's finally getting nice here. The only thing I occasionally see is Ant+ interference, but I'm not sure whether that's the stages or my Garmin as when it happens it knocks out all the sensors, not just the Stages. I have a Fenix 3 (watch) so it's possible it has an inferior antenna compared to the larger Edge units.

I think we determined it's not much but you can save a little if you're replacing the whole crank by buying a crankset off eBay, etc.. and then just buying the left arm direct from stages. ($50-100 depending on model?)

Thanks, this sounds like the best option thus far. I'm glad to hear that people are having more success with the newer stages. Power2Max seems like the most robust against all ailments out there, but it would require different model crank and so forth, plus added weight of the sensor (usually around 150-180g it seems).

If you like your Dura Ace pedals, I think Garmin is now offering a conversion kit for their Vectors to use Ultegra bodies. Might be worth looking into, but probably not an ideal option.. Let me see if I can dig up the link in a bit...

The problem was these seemed quite heavy. But this is definitely a good tip that has moved this option from the No to Possibility list. Thank you.

Power2Max crank and forget about your crank. The price is under $1k and you get more reliable data than Stages can give you.

What crank would you recommend if I went this route as a stiff-or-stiffer than Red and light as-or-lighter option? This one? (http://www.power2max.com/northamerica/product/powermeters/power2max-type-s-fsa-k-force-light-bb386evo-power-meter-and-cranks/) This would be almost similar in pricing, maybe a bit more without doing the calculations, and I see that I could get the praxis rings for $99 as an add-on over the $160-170 retail. Just not sure about weight.

maybe I misunderstood your post since it said "since I am still 11spd." I think you meant "still 10spd" right? if so, my ring recommendations might be off...

from what Zinn has said on VN, you can use 10 speed rings with an otherwise 11 speed group (and vice versa) just make sure you use the appropriate chain. also, I've done this; it's been fine.

Thanks, corrected. Meant 10spd, yes. And I had read that and was thus planning to put 10spd rings on the 11spd crank if I went this option. It seems that the Praxis rings work with 9-10-11 and wouldn't require any other changes.

Never mind - thought you listed Red GXP as current ...

Fastest and lightest option for your existing setup is to use the Rival GXP NDS crank arm ($399). Arms won't match, but Rival NDS is readily available in 172.5. Will cost you a few grams for the Rival arm vs. Red. Weigh your NDS Red arm and call Stages for the total weight of the Rival/Stages arm to see exactly how many grams it will cost you.

Lightest option is going to be switch of cranks / stages as others suggest. You'll need to decide if weight or meter type is more important. Satisfaction reports for Stages vary greatly.

The issue with this, and it was my early pick, is that I have a BB30 setup and this would require running a BB adaptor and such. I'd prefer not to do this + swap to gxp crank.


So....
It seems that my best options are:

Used 22 Red crank - sell rings - buy praxis - buy stages when in stock [likely even drops weight from where I am now]
Power2Max crank w/meter and praxis rings


Power2max would take me up in weight it seems. But I need to dig into this a bit more. Both are ballpark cost - stages and red crank swap include some used potential and would be a bit cheaper.

[frank_h]

Never mind - thought you listed Red GXP as current ...


Lightest option is going to be switch of cranks / stages as others suggest. You'll need to decide if weight or meter type is more important. Satisfaction reports for Stages vary greatly.

FWIW - I am using P-Tap P1 pedals on my CAAD 10 with Hollowgram SI crank. Makes it easy to port same power readings to all of my bikes. If you switched to Hollowgram/OPI & Stages you'd see WW savings, but $$.

Yeah, I also have been thinking of hunting down a used SI and going with the stages SI, but rings/spider add a lot of cost. I think my napkin math had this being a few hundred more than doing the red 10->11 swap.

And unless this is your "Mt Washington/Mt Evans exclusive climbing bike" the benefit of training with power (assuming you have a training plan and/or coach and follow them) will help you more than a few grams in weight difference. (Actually the PM is probably still more beneficial there)

This is really something I've been going back and forth on. I agree regarding training. The power increase for the weight gain is probably far better than the pure weight savings. But because this will be for competitive big climbs (Mitchell, etc) I'd like to invest in power with minimal gain. However, I do need to be careful about separating power training and racing benefit vs 50-100g increase with maybe more of a mental block in adding that weight when I've been cutting posts and tuning bolts, etc, etc for so long.

[ergott]

I have the P2M on my Force crank. Easy upgrade since I already had the crank and rings. If going all new, I would look at Rotor for the great price/performance balance. I just don't bother with the last few grams and "stiffness" of one crank compared to another. P2M has been flawless and online the reviews are all very good.

Rotor gives you a lot of flexibility with bike compatibility as well.

[frank_h]

I have the P2M on my Force crank. Easy upgrade since I already had the crank and rings. If going all new, I would look at Rotor for the great price/performance balance. I just don't bother with the last few grams and "stiffness" of one crank compared to another. P2M has been flawless and online the reviews are all very good.

Rotor gives you a lot of flexibility with bike compatibility as well.

I see. Yes, FSA has never sat well with me after using their cranks in the past. That new light is indeed lighter, but only 37g over the 3D+. I could eat 30-50g and make it up elsewhere (tires, etc). What do you think of that model [3D+]? I'd have to go all new.

699 for the stages carbon + 200 for the Red 22 crank + (maybe even for the rings) 0
vs
930 for the full 3D+ P2M + 99 for the Praxis

Price is close enough that I think it would come down to:

* Stages vs P2M [P2M seems to win on reliability but lose a bit in weight]
* 3D+ vs Red 22 crank [I'm not sure on this one]

[benb]

This is really something I've been going back and forth on. I agree regarding training. The power increase for the weight gain is probably far better than the pure weight savings. But because this will be for competitive big climbs (Mitchell, etc) I'd like to invest in power with minimal gain. However, I do need to be careful about separating power training and racing benefit vs 50-100g increase with maybe more of a mental block in adding that weight when I've been cutting posts and tuning bolts, etc, etc for so long.

A lot of this really depends on how successful you were with doing periodized training without power. I was pretty bad at it, it's much easier for me personally with power. But I have friends who are/were very very good at training without power, for them maybe it wouldn't make a big difference and the weight might matter more.

Mt. Washington is the bike hillclimb I had done in the past but I haven't done it in 10 years... the last time I did it I had coaching help but obviously no power meter. I am fairly sure if I got on a training plan for that hill climb with the power meter now I would destroy my PR, despite being 28 last time I did it and I'd be 40 the next time I could enter the race. There was just no guarantee back then that I would show up trained correctly and not overtrained on the day of the race back then and every time I did those hill climbs I would never pace myself optimally with all the crazy weather, wind, and outrageous grades.

[ergott]

What do you think of that model [3D+]?

I haven't personally used it, but I know people that like them, mechanics as well. Haven't heard any negatives.

Don't forget P2M vs Stages, you get actual power from both legs not calculated from only one.

[frank_h]

A lot of this really depends on how successful you were with doing periodized training without power. I was pretty bad at it, it's much easier for me personally with power. But I have friends who are/were very very good at training without power, for them maybe it wouldn't make a big difference and the weight might matter more.

Mt. Washington is the bike hillclimb I had done in the past but I haven't done it in 10 years... the last time I did it I had coaching help but obviously no power meter. I am fairly sure if I got on a training plan for that hill climb with the power meter now I would destroy my PR, despite being 28 last time I did it and I'd be 40 the next time I could enter the race. There was just no guarantee back then that I would show up trained correctly and not overtrained on the day of the race back then and every time I did those hill climbs I would never pace myself optimally with all the crazy weather, wind, and outrageous grades.

I'm on a temp power metering setup now (old PT SL hub that i have wired up) and it has been incredibly helpful for me. I now know I am like you in that it is pretty darn valuable in training, but also in monitoring effort for attacks. I'm also a data glutton.

My climbing is going well now, but I really think that I've seen the light (or dark side?) in power and think that on prolonged efforts going up, I will greatly benefit from these data.

I haven't personally used it, but I know people that like them, mechanics as well. Haven't heard any negatives.

Don't forget P2M vs Stages, you get actual power from both legs not calculated from only one.

Okay, thanks. And yes, another good point. Dual power, good temp dealing, auto-zero, and seems that, like you mentioned, it's really the best set-it-forget-it meter.

Really comes down to Rotor 3D+ vs Red22 crank, then, I guess.....

[sitzmark]

Yeah, I also have been thinking of hunting down a used SI and going with the stages SI, but rings/spider add a lot of cost. I think my napkin math had this being a few hundred more than doing the red 10->11 swap.

Yes, a play on # vs $ - probably looking at near $1k for SI and over for SISL / Stages package. Depends on what deals you can strike.

These guys http://www.ashtoninstruments.com/#home were telegraphing a 2016 launch at one point, but have gone dark so not sure if they are anywhere near "real" at this point. Would slide into your BB30 spindle and off you go....

[kramnnim]

Quite happy with my Hollowgram+Quarq...

[chiasticon]

THe C1 rings looked awesome, but iirc were listed as not compatible with the carbon/red cranks.their compatibility chart lists that 11 speed red/force are not compatible. which makes sense, because they have the hidden bolt design. and it would technically work, but the chain drop pin would be off. they state that 10 speed gxp red/force work and that BB30 is not tested. having swapped rings between BB30 and gxp cranksets, I'd say there's no reason this won't work. I think they're just playing it safe; after all, sram uses the same rings between both gxp and BB30 cranksets. the only reason it wouldn't work is if there's a clearance issue on the inside of the rings or something but the pictures online don't show anything like that.

[frank_h]

Quite happy with my Hollowgram+Quarq...

Yeah, it would be about $200 more than either the stages+crank or P2M options, but this one (https://www.quarq.com/store/item/1756/)would let me use my current chainrings (I think) and be ready to roll. Just a bit more of an investment over those two options.

their compatibility chart lists that 11 speed red/force are not compatible. which makes sense, because they have the hidden bolt design. and it would technically work, but the chain drop pin would be off. they state that 10 speed gxp red/force work and that BB30 is not tested. having swapped rings between BB30 and gxp cranksets, I'd say there's no reason this won't work. I think they're just playing it safe; after all, sram uses the same rings between both gxp and BB30 cranksets. the only reason it wouldn't work is if there's a clearance issue on the inside of the rings or something but the pictures online don't show anything like that.

Yeah, it might be a risk on the fit. And the rings would be a bit more to replace, although I read some people claiming that other rings work okay with the pod. Might be worth an email to see if they divulge any more information that isn't on the sheet. I've had Stages email me such personal information recently.

[chiasticon]

Yeah, it would be about $200 more than either the stages+crank or P2M options, but this one (https://www.quarq.com/store/item/1756/)would let me use my current chainrings (I think) and be ready to roll. Just a bit more of an investment over those two options.if you're on sram 10 speed rings then they won't work with that; at least, not ideally. the fifth bolt is shifted under the crank arm, which changes location of ramps and the chain drop pin.

however, if you do go that way, dc rainmaker has coupon code "DCR10MHD" that will get you 10% off of it at clevertraining.com

it's still more expensive than your other options, though.

[frank_h]

if you're on sram 10 speed rings then they won't work with that; at least, not ideally. the fifth bolt is shifted under the crank arm, which changes location of ramps and the chain drop pin.

however, if you do go that way, dc rainmaker has coupon code "DCR10MHD" that will get you 10% off of it at clevertraining.com

it's still more expensive than your other options, though.

Oooo, thanks for that!

I guess I would have to rotate the pin or shave it off? Hmmmm....

It's a bummer that there isn't a P2M that will go onto the red22 cranks. They seem to only list Force, etc.

[gospastic]

Do you currently have old red or new red 10sp cranks?

[frank_h]

Do you currently have old red or new red 10sp cranks?

I have the 10spd ones with powerglide rings. I can't recall if this is pre-yaw, but I think so.

[gospastic]

If you go with a Red22 quarq, in BB30 form it is only about 75g more than the old Red crank.

[frank_h]

If you go with a Red22 quarq, in BB30 form it is only about 75g more than the old Red crank.

I was just seeing that myself. Thank you!

This setup would take me up about $200 more, but it seems that it might be worth it in terms of Quarq vs Stages reliability.

What would be the best way to approach the chainrings then with the hidden bolt issue? I just heard from Praxis and said they do not yet have rings to work with this setup. Maybe I could get away with 11spd rings with my 10spd chain setup!?

[frank_h]

if you're on sram 10 speed rings then they won't work with that; at least, not ideally. the fifth bolt is shifted under the crank arm, which changes location of ramps and the chain drop pin.

however, if you do go that way, dc rainmaker has coupon code "DCR10MHD" that will get you 10% off of it at clevertraining.com

it's still more expensive than your other options, though.

You mentioned that you swapped rings when you purchased the red22, which ones did you use that would work with the hidden bolt exogram?

[ergott]

Force 22 uses a hidden bolt pattern, but switching to the P2M spider rotated that 180deg. It's no problem at all. Even the rings have markings on them for both configurations (Sram markings).

The drop pin can be pushed out and there's a hole 180deg you press it into. There's a plastic plug in there from Sram that you just trade places with.

[kramnnim]

Hollowgram Quarq should be considerably lighter than any other non Stages option...

I've been mixing 10sp rings and 11sp chains for many miles with no issues. You can rotate the chainrings so that the pin is 180 degrees from correct and be fine, just won't have the slight bit of protection if your chain drops.

I'm pretty sure any spider that fits on a Force22 arm will fit on the Red Quarq arm. I think the Force22 is the same as the Riken Carbon arm and the Red is the same as the Elsa. (Hollow and a few grams lighter)

Edit: I didn't know the pin could be moved ^

[frank_h]

Force 22 uses a hidden bolt pattern, but switching to the P2M spider rotated that 180deg. It's no problem at all. Even the rings have markings on them for both configurations (Sram markings).

The drop pin can be pushed out and there's a hole 180deg you press it into. There's a plastic plug in there from Sram that you just trade places with.

I see. I think the extralite rings work this way, but you have to go 110bcd.

[ergott]

My rings are 110 if that matters.

[frank_h]

Hollowgram Quarq should be considerably lighter than any other non Stages option...

I've been mixing 10sp rings and 11sp chains for many miles with no issues. You can rotate the chainrings so that the pin is 180 degrees from correct and be fine, just won't have the slight bit of protection if your chain drops.

I'm pretty sure any spider that fits on a Force22 arm will fit on the Red Quarq arm. I think the Force22 is the same as the Riken Carbon arm and the Red is the same as the Elsa. (Hollow and a few grams lighter)

Edit: I didn't know the pin could be moved ^

Thanks, and good call on the pin. Out of curiosity, you use your Si/sl/sisl2 arms with this, the quarq as spider (is that correct?), what chainrings do you run?

My rings are 110 if that matters.

Thanks. That helps. I am kind of married to my 53/39 but I see that there is a 110 53/39 Extralite. If I went with the 110 BCD quarq, I could then go with those rings and then go down to compact for ascents just swapping rings. Hmmm, this is sounding intriguing.

[kramnnim]

I'm using SL arms, Quarq spider, and Praxis rings.

A SiSL2 with a Stages and Spiderring would be kind of cool...

[chiasticon]

You mentioned that you swapped rings when you purchased the red22, which ones did you use that would work with the hidden bolt exogram?I already had sram rings. but WickWerks sells rings that work with the fifth bolt under the spider.

Force 22 uses a hidden bolt pattern, but switching to the P2M spider rotated that 180deg. It's no problem at all. Even the rings have markings on them for both configurations (Sram markings).

The drop pin can be pushed out and there's a hole 180deg you press it into. There's a plastic plug in there from Sram that you just trade places with.nice! I didn't know that! :banana:

[frank_h]

I already had sram rings. but WickWerks sells rings that work with the fifth bolt under the spider.

Oh, this is good to know. I had looked at their FAQ and maybe it was outdated, but said it didn't work with Exogram. This was down as a reply to a comment to the FAQ, so maybe that's why it wasn't currently relevant.

As an update: I put all the weights, costs, parts down and the pros and cons everyone has provided here, and made a choice.

I decided to go with the Quarq Red 22 110BCD 172.5 and a set of Extralite Octraramp CH2 (the 110 ones that are converted to 53/39).
I went with the 110 even though I currently don't want to give up 53/39 since, a) there was a 110 53/39 available from Extralite that was indeed light, and b) this would mean I could simply swap to a second chainring set that's true compact for legitimate climb events/training without any concern.

I'll keep the thread updated as to what I think about this PM, and how I feel it served me in this particular crank/bike setup as per our thread discussion. This was the more expensive option (although, not by much after using the coupon code that was provided here [THANK YOU!!!]), but I felt balanced weight, components, upgradeability (like mentioned, now have the big 11spd part out of the way), reliability, and PM features I was looking for (light, dual leg, Red comp, in stock...). Here's to hoping it was a solid choice. It really came down to this or the P2M (as the P2M was about the same cost as the crank+stages+rings), but I didn't want to switch to Rotor or FSA, nor go down to Force or Rival. The Hallowgram Si/SiSl2 options for all 3 PMs were my ideal for this bike, but the cost was just too high.

I want to thank everyone for all their invaluable advice thus far!

To continue my leaching information, I did some searching and found a thread where others had installed the Extralite rings onto the Red22 exogram crank, but was curious if anyone else had done this. As mentioned above (thank you), I should be able to move the pin as needed, but what about the hidden bolt itself? I installed a Force CX1 crank with hidden bolt on the CX bike this winter with a Wolftooth 1X ring and Wolftooth bolts. It was tricky but I could get the standard bolt into the hidden position and torque it down being very careful in the process. However, with standard two rings on the crankset, will I need that specific hidden bolt/spacer, etc?

[frank_h]

I'm using SL arms, Quarq spider, and Praxis rings.

A SiSL2 with a Stages and Spiderring would be kind of cool...

Especially for a CAAD10, a high torque demand (steep gradient and low cadence training), and WW concern, this is my ideal setup by far! Just not having any of the above parts meant the cost was far too high for now. However, I could see moving this direction down the road.

[chiasticon]

Oh, this is good to know. I had looked at their FAQ and maybe it was outdated, but said it didn't work with Exogram. This was down as a reply to a comment to the FAQ, so maybe that's why it wasn't currently relevant.I haven't seen that FAQ, but I know they offer sram exogram and 22 options for each set of rings I've looked at.

sounds like you went the pimp route. congrats!

also, now that you're on 110, if you haven't tried 52/36 and see yourself swapping occasionally between standard/compact, you should give it a go. really great all around combo.

[kramnnim]

I'm curious how the Red22 Quarq and Hollowgram Quarq weights compare, if you have the weights...?

Do you have to supply your own chainring bolts, or did you buy the Quarq with rings that you don't plan to use? I had a Force22 crank and can't recall if the hidden bolt was just like the rest of them... It doesn't really need to be special since the spider is detachable and the bolt doesn't thread in to the crank arm like Campy...

[gospastic]

My Red22 quarq came with one knurled nut, it makes it easy to tighten the bolt behind the crank arm. But kramnnim is correct, it's not like the regular Red22 crankset where it actually threads into the crank itself.

I have a couple Exogram cranksets, and have had the old Red crankset, all BB30 170mm. Weights are cranks/spider only:

Old Red - 483g
Red Exogram - 365g
Red22 Quarq Exogram - 560g

[frank_h]

I haven't seen that FAQ, but I know they offer sram exogram and 22 options for each set of rings I've looked at.

sounds like you went the pimp route. congrats!

also, now that you're on 110, if you haven't tried 52/36 and see yourself swapping occasionally between standard/compact, you should give it a go. really great all around combo.

Yeah, definitely went the greatest buyers guilt route. :/

Already ordered the 53/39, but I'll put this on the list for next to try. That sounds like a really good compromise!

I'm curious how the Red22 Quarq and Hollowgram Quarq weights compare, if you have the weights...?

Do you have to supply your own chainring bolts, or did you buy the Quarq with rings that you don't plan to use? I had a Force22 crank and can't recall if the hidden bolt was just like the rest of them... It doesn't really need to be special since the spider is detachable and the bolt doesn't thread in to the crank arm like Campy...

I'll add to the posted data above with crank/spider/rings for old red vs quarq red etap once it arrives. My napkin math numbers were darn close to the above. But I'm also swapping rings and such so I will post completes for the various combos.

My Red22 quarq came with one knurled nut, it makes it easy to tighten the bolt behind the crank arm. But kramnnim is correct, it's not like the regular Red22 crankset where it actually threads into the crank itself.

I have a couple Exogram cranksets, and have had the old Red crankset, all BB30 170mm. Weights are cranks/spider only:

Old Red - 483g
Red Exogram - 365g
Red22 Quarq Exogram - 560g

Thanks for the clarification of bolts. Sounds perfect.

Wow, that red exogram sure is light. I hadn't realized. I'll add some completes and such with my parts once they're in.

[kramnnim]

I thought Hollowgrams were light, but I don't think they are under 365g...wow.

[frank_h]

Out of curiosity, what are people using for power analysis?

I'm using TrainerRoad and Strava, so I'm interested for something Free (and open source would be nice plus).

Looking to mostly get a sense of how various metrics are laid out and use for a bit, then likely incorporate these data analyses into some of my own software that I've been using on FIT files.

Or, if I can easily rip out the raw PM data from something, that would work.

[kramnnim]

Golden Cheetah

[frank_h]

Golden Cheetah

Perfect. Love it. Exploring now. Exactly what I wanted.

Thanks!!!

[ergott]

re: Golden Cheetah.

This user has some excellent videos walking you through the program. Helped me a ton.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo9uhwMdthQ

[benb]

Whatever you do don't try to use Strava for anything power related that's serious!

- No Normalized Power
- Website shows their own made up thing called "Weighted Average Power" which does not equal either NP or AP as reported by PM.
- Mobile app shows something else called "Average Power" (which is not the average power reported by the PM)
- No way to view laps in mobile app.

Actually the mobile app is terrible but AFAICT even Garmin Connect is more useful for power than Strava, as it does show the the #s right from your PM including NP, IF, Avg. Power, etc.. and it does your laps/splits correctly.

I'm using training peaks although that was largely motivated by a coach telling me to use it. And the free version would probably be good enough for my purposes.

[chiasticon]

Whatever you do don't try to use Strava for anything power related that's serious!uhhh...but then how the hell are you supposed to show off your watts!?!

[frank_h]

Long overdue update. I thought I would quickly post a few things for posterity and future searching.

I ended up going with the following setup:


Quarq Red 22 (no rings) PF/BB30
Extralite 110BCD rings in the cool 53 mod version (this way I can still run compact rings if I want)


This has been an amazing setup on the bike. Most expensive option, but after months of hard, daily use, I think this was absolutely the best bang for my buck when considering weight, durability, data integrity, future-proofing, etc...

Plus, I'm setup to add on eTap someday.

For analytics, I ended up using TrainingPeaks. As a TrainerRoad user, the integration was there and all of the performance and fitness tracking meshed well with what I wanted from the data.

Thanks again to all for the input!