OT: Purchasing a new car....Best buying/pricing resources

[firerescuefin]

Momma needs a new car...We're looking at New/Newish Honda Odysseys (Touring). I was leaning newish, until I noticed that used prices (with low miles) are not much less than new.

At the age of 42, I've purchased one new car, and that was 10 years ago. What are the best resources out there to come up with a good price to take to the dealer to bargain with..... both new and used?

TIA,

Geoff

[kramnnim]

Truecar?

[Richard]

Consumer Reports has a service that will give dealer cost and the dealer incentives so you know the real cost. Invoice is not the real cost after the dealer receives incentives later in the year.

[firerescuefin]

Truecar?

I know KBB, Edmunds, and stuff like truecar are out there. I was hopeful that people would share their experiences with how those tools were effective/ineffective. Part of me wonders if they are tools that are manipulated by the manufacturers/dealers themselves.

[jimcav]

I've not used either but have known folks who have and seemed happy with the process

[tele]

We just bought a new car a couple of weeks ago...Truecar and others were way off. What we paid was $1k less than the exceptional price on Truecar and other sites. So screw them. I emailed a bunch of dealers and got the lowest price for what we wanted, then used that really good price and used that to see what dealers would beat it. The closest dealer to us wouldn't come within $1k of the lowest quote and had all sorts of reasons/excuses so in the end we traveled an hour to buy the car.

[zmudshark]

A friend is a retired auto salesman. He says never go into a dealership to haggle, just use internet pricing.

[AngryScientist]

my auto insurance company (USAA) will negotiate the best rates on a new car. Just go to the internet or dealership and get the VIN of the car you want and they use their leverage as a worldwide entity to negotiate the best possible rate for the consumer.

maybe your insurance company does the same?

i hate haggling, this method works best for me.

[AngryScientist]

Barring the above.

Walk in that dealership like the boss you are with Fire Chief hat on and tell then that if they ever again pray to pass a fire inspection, the price better be RIGHT. :D:hello:

[yngpunk]

Momma needs a new car...We're looking at New/Newish Honda Odysseys (Touring). I was leaning newish, until I noticed that used prices (with low miles) are not much less than new.

At the age of 42, I've purchased one new car, and that was 10 years ago. What are the best resources out there to come up with a good price to take to the dealer to bargain with..... both new and used?

TIA,

Geoff

If looking for used, look at the various car list sites: cars.com, autotrader.com, autolist.com and see every Honda Odyssey with the specs you are looking for in your designated radius to see what's out there. Great comparison shopping tool. I've found that not all three sites show the same inventory, so it's worthwhile to run the search on all three sites. I like Autolist since it tracks price history of the vehicle, but sometimes pulls old inventory

[Tickdoc]

I've used consumer reports before and it works well. It still gets you into the " but if we agreed to that low of a price we wouldn't be able to pay the salesmen" speech, but it works well and makes walking out so much easier.

[soulspinner]

I know KBB, Edmunds, and stuff like truecar are out there. I was hopeful that people would share their experiences with how those tools were effective/ineffective. Part of me wonders if they are tools that are manipulated by the manufacturers/dealers themselves.

Choose a car with exactly what you want on it. I have a couple of friends at a Honda dealer. Tell me the MSRP and i will tell you invoice and what somebody around will sell it for as a guide. PM whenever you want.

[daker13]

I think the difference between buying a new car now and buying one in the past is that, with truecar, etc., you can get a pretty good idea of what you should be paying for the car you want. The problem is, if the car is in demand, you might have to take some extras you don't want in order to get the car in a reasonable amount of time. When I bought a new car the summer before last, I spent way too much effort trying to out-maneuver a dealer I thought was trying to upsell me. I think dealers/salesmen now make more money on volume, financing, etc., not necessarily an extra two grand tacked onto the sales price. Of course a lot of places have no-haggle policies now, anyways.

[biker72]

If you don't like haggling you can use one of the many services out there to buy a vehicle for you. They of course will charge for this service.

I've always used the haggle approach. I bought a new Honda Accord last year from a local dealer. Did the research with Consumers Report and others. I countered the dealerships first offer with a number around $3K below their "cost". Be patient. You have the money and they want it. When the sales manager starts talking with you, the price is about as low as it's going to get. Not happy with the deal? Walk out.

A couple of years ago I went with my daughter to buy a new Toyota 4 wheel drive pickup. Very long story short and 5 hours later she bought the truck for $2k below their "cost". I think their cost is a flexible number depending on how many vehicles they sell. I don't think they lost any money.....:D

I too found that used low mileage vehicles were within a couple hundred dollars of new ones.

[hokoman]

When i purchased my odyssey (touring edition as well), i got internet pricing and used the lowest to see if anyone would beat it. The difference in used and new is negligible since new car financing is way better. Since the odyssey isn't a hot item especially with the new pilot touring out, I would expect you to get at least $5k off msrp.

[texbike]

my auto insurance company (USAA) will negotiate the best rates on a new car. Just go to the internet or dealership and get the VIN of the car you want and they use their leverage as a worldwide entity to negotiate the best possible rate for the consumer.

maybe your insurance company does the same?

i hate haggling, this method works best for me.

This is a good advice.

Also, given the size of your employer, take a look at what automotive discount programs your HR department has available. I'd be surprised if they don't have programs in place from most of the major manufacturers. As others have pointed out, utilize the internet and request quotes from dealerships via their online sales teams. It's much more efficient to negotiate a deal in that fashion once you've decided on the vehicle and the options that you want on it.

Have fun!

Texbike

[veloduffer]

We used AAA to buy our Subaru Outback. Of the five dealers, only one said he would honor the AAA price over the phone. The others wanted us to come in.

We went with the dealer with AAA. They didn't have the exact car but they ordered it. We had to wait about 10 weeks, as Subaru can't make cars fast enough. But there was no hassle.

When we bought Odysseys and Sienna in the past, Honda dealers were least likely to negotiate (hence the Sienna).

Good luck. Buy at the end of the month when dealers need to make quotas.

[p nut]

We tried Costco Auto, but prices weren't much better than internet "bottom line" prices on the dealer websites. I emailed the dealers locally and in the surrounding states, fully prepared to make a road trip if needed. Fortunately, a local dealer matched the lowest price I found.

The next car I bought was the same scenario. Costco didn't deliver, so had to use some elbow grease to get it done myself.

[Ken Robb]

I used COSTCO to get prices on several different brands/models we were considering. They send you the name/number of a person to contact at each dealer and that person gives you their COSTCO price. I think "The COSTCO price" can vary from dealer to dealer. When I was close to making a deal on the Mazda 3 that we bought I mentioned that I was also a USAA member. The salesman immediately said there was a special offer for USAA then that got me another $500 off. I think a person could try other dealers than the one they were referred to by any buying service to see if they would beat their price.

All of the salespeople handling COSTCO customers were very professional and pleasant. We are VERY pleased with our Mazda and John Hine Mazda has been excellent during the sale and the 3 routine services over 20,000 miles. 32-38 mpg on regular gas, $150 total for 3 services. Zero warranty needs. :beer:

[joe.e]

I used Truecar. It was super simple, and I never told the salesman I had a Truecar quote before haggling. He gave me the whole 'look, this is the absolute best I can do, I'm sorry' speech, and then I fell back onto the Truecar pricing. Kind of a dick move on my part, but I wanted to make sure 'the finance guy' wasn't able to get a better deal (with holiday pricing/etc). Just make sure that the dealership you're going to uses Truecar and you're set.

10/10 would use again.

[1happygirl]

When i purchased my odyssey (touring edition as well), i got internet pricing and used the lowest to see if anyone would beat it. The difference in used and new is negligible since new car financing is way better. Since the odyssey isn't a hot item especially with the new pilot touring out, I would expect you to get at least $5k off msrp.


My all time favorite bicycle and everyday vehicle, my Chrysler Town & Country (with fold flat seating) met with an untimely demise some time ago. The deer was okay, but the Tree didn't survive the impact. Neither did the van.

I think this may be one exception to the rule. I wish it were true so I could talk myself into the new model but I found the new limited ed. is like $44k maybe and a 3-5 yo is about $21 K . Since I am also in the market and you guys are so knowledgeable, I will be following this thread for details.

[rpm]

I had good luck with Truecar with the last car I bought. The dealers I contacted seemed to have one salesman assigned to Costco and Truecar sales, and they didn't try to jerk me around. The most helpful thing I found with Truecar was the distribution of actual prices paid in the last few months. I would tell the salesman that I wanted to be in the lower part of the that distribution.

[Hank Scorpio]

my auto insurance company (USAA) will negotiate the best rates on a new car...

Yes and no. I have usaa as well and tried to use their service. The dealers that were preselected didn't want to honor the price displayed. They claimed that it was a cash only price and there was no room for negotiation. I walked and found a better deal on my own. It seems that the dealers that participate are under no obligation to complete the sale and merely use the service to drive customers into the showroom.

To the OP: Listen to this podcast. It is highly entertaining and there are several tips if you listen closely. Also Google the four box method of car sales so you will be prepared for the usual shenanigans. Good luck! Buying a car has consistently been the most distasteful endeavor I have ever had to endure.

http://m.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/513/129-cars

[pbarry]

Recently I got a hankering for a new car, it would be my first ever. Went on Edmund's and entered the criteria and hit 'send'. OMG, I was faced with a deluge of offers. A couple were way way below sticker price for what I wanted. In the end, no sale cause I don't like debt.. So, consider getting some quotes from E, but be prepared for the calls and emails after. :eek:

[pbarry]

My all time favorite bicycle and everyday vehicle, my Chrysler Town & Country (with fold flat seating) met with an untimely demise some time ago. The deer was okay, but the Tree didn't survive the impact. Neither did the van.

I think this may be one exception to the rule. I wish it were true so I could talk myself into the new model but I found the new limited ed. is like $44k maybe and a 3-5 yo is about $21 K . Since I am also in the market and you guys are so knowledgeable, I will be following this thread for details.

I like those vans. Don't forget the rebadged VW Routan: most FS around here have lowish miles compared to the Dodge and Chrysler models.

[FlashUNC]

The power of the Internet. No need to step into a dealership to haggle. Just get quotes and when one gets the price you want in your neck of the woods, time to head in for the test drive. Easy peasy.

[malbecman]

If you know exactly the make and model that you want, look up the invoice price for it. Also write down the invoice prices for the various packages..really think about which ones you want or can do without.

THEN...call up several local dealers, ask for the fleet manager and tell them you are shopping for a new car and WILL purchase in the next month. Let them know you are calling several dealsers in a 25, 50, 100 mile radius (whatever works for your locale-they know the competition). Do it at the end of the month or fiscal quarter. ell them that whomever gives you the best prices for the car relative to invoice will win your business and that any options will be priced at invoice pricing. Tell them you will call all of them in a couple of days and see who won your business.

This pits the local dealers againts themselves (takes care of any local incentives) and gives you the power to just hang up/ walk away. No sales pitch, gotta run to the manager, check this price, hang on a minute, kinda games.

[SoCalSteve]

Momma needs a new car...We're looking at New/Newish Honda Odysseys (Touring). I was leaning newish, until I noticed that used prices (with low miles) are not much less than new.

At the age of 42, I've purchased one new car, and that was 10 years ago. What are the best resources out there to come up with a good price to take to the dealer to bargain with..... both new and used?

TIA,

Geoff

You can save a few $$$ and get a much better warranty if you buy a used " CPO " vehicle from a dealer.

Another way to approach it.

Good luck!

[shovelhd]

I used Truecar to buy my 2014 VW. This was for a car that was on the line about to be shipped. I paid about $3600 off sticker. I tried to use Truecar to buy my wife's RAV4 Hybrid, but the number was way high, so I never submitted it. I was able to haggle another grand off the Truecar price and got a good price on the trade. Took about an hour and six round trips by the closer.

[bigbill]

USAA and Truecar to buy The Boy's car. It was $11K on line and that is what we paid plus tax and title. The sucky part was the nearest Truecar approved dealer was an hour away. We have five car dealerships here, none of them on the list.

[soulspinner]

The power of the Internet. No need to step into a dealership to haggle. Just get quotes and when one gets the price you want in your neck of the woods, time to head in for the test drive. Easy peasy.

I have sold cars, understand cost, have brokered for buyers and bought a car off an add price(lease ads are often very close to the bone). Everyone (dealers) buys new cars for the same. Sometimes there is a lot of dealer money, sometimes a little(money to dealers unknown to customers), Flash is right though, this works because with a phone quote they know you are calling a lot of dealers.

[Ryun]

Your box is full... PM me,,

USAA truecar etc are just lead generators for dealerships. They charge dealers to list on their sites and to have access to their customers. They dont leverage anything against a dealer.

All these prices are available to the general public and ultimately just may make it a shorter road to get to where you would have gotten anyway. Also internet contact will make it easier to figure out which dealers are dinosaurs and which actually do business in a modern fashion.

Hondas are relatively easy compared to other brands that often have sales objectives and crazy dealer money on them. Stability of used prices and the small delta between new and used reflect this.

for the odyssey you are looking at just find the invoice price on line. from that you have about 4% dealer money. Subtract that. Currently Honda is giving dealers a 1250 cash incentive so subtract that. You should be able to get it for a couple hundred about that total depending on what the dealer has in stock.

Also with that you can get 0.9% financing for 24-60. It does not require forgoing the cash incentive.

Odysseys are fairly plentiful at the moment but come end of may/june supply tightens up as miinivan season rolls in and demand goes thru the roof before summer vacations. Prices tend to go up during that time.

Let me know if I can help. I have a Honda dealership but would be cost effective for you to ship one from florida. I do however have a couple strong relationships with TX dealers so I can help make things smooth for you.

Its a great van. LMK if you need more info

[jwalther]

I just helped my mother buy a new RAV4 this week. One local dealer had the exact car she wanted with an internet price below the average sale price listed by Edmunds.

[carpediemracing]

A couple-few things (worked at a car dealership in 2015, a friend works at a Honda dealership as of a month ago):

1. Financing. Walk in with financing/cash. Not because you're going to say "what's your best cash price". Instead, if you're financing, ask them what their best rate is for you. Dealers are allowed to, and basically always do, add a bit to the rate. However, if that rate is still below the rate you can secure, it's still a better rate. So a 1.9% rate from a dealer is better than a 2.9% rate from your credit union, even if the dealer is adding 1% to the rate the bank quoted them. Dealer makes money, you save money.

2. Truecar is pretty killer, price wise. KBB I think has something also. No, it's Edmunds Price Promise. Dealers will put bait cars out there on Price Promise. To give an example, the dealer where I worked sold a particular model of SUV for $45-55k, with a typical discount of $3k (invoice-ish). Someone came in, bought a car on the spot, and paid $42k for a $50k SUV. I was absolutely floored, like what the heck? Way below supplier pricing (given to employees of companies that have a deal with the manufacturer), way below employee pricing. It was an Edmunds Price Promise listing. Dealers put the car out there to bring people into the dealership, so it's a really low price. If you can find one, and it's substantially below invoice, grab it. Have financing/money lined up, else the dealer may sell it out from under you.

3. Sales people, at least for Honda and other new commodity cars, make money on their "flats", the money they get for selling one car. That flat normally gets pulled from the "Dealer Conveyance Fee", from what I can tell. For example, for me, if I sold a $100k car, I got $100 flat ($65 if we had to swap cars with another dealer). I got commission for any amount over invoice, but we rarely sold a car over invoice, and this will be triply true for a commodity car (Honda, Toyota, etc). Realistically your Honda dealership will work the same way. There is a manufacturer commission but I don't know it for Honda. For where I worked it was max $200 per car, and that's if you did volume. In other words if I sold a $50-80k car I would realistically see $100 + maybe $100-200 commission from the manufacturer. I made below minimum wage otherwise, with forwarded commission making up the rest. I made more on a sick day than on a normal day, because on sick days they had to pay me the full minimum wage.

Also, sales people normally don't have price power. They have to ask their manager. On the other hand they present your points to the manager. The sales person could say "I think we can keep them at invoice" versus "they're going to walk out unless we match the True Price they saw elsewhere". The way the sales person presents your case affects how quickly you get out of the dealership.

So, keeping in mind that I was such a sales person, I'm saying all that because if you make friends with a sales person they can really move the process along.

4. The finance person ("Business Manager" typically), who has you sign all the papers, sells you Simonize, etc, works totally independently of the sales person, so no matter what you'll need to sit through that. Be totally prepared when you walk in there.

4a: Simonize - it costs the dealer very little for the actual material. Hint: if you look at eBay you'll see the actual price out there. Properly applied it takes some more money ($50-60 labor at our dealership). Tell the dealer $150 for Simonize, or "give it to me free if I finance with you" or something along those lines. It does help with bird droppings, not ever having to wax, etc. It doesn't help with rock chips and such.

4b: Tire and rim guard. On an Odyssey it may not be an issue, but if you're replacing rims consistently then I'd get it. Covers bends, not scrapes.

4b: The finance person depends on doing loans and selling extended warranties and such. If you're paying cash, turn down all extras, he'll move you along quicker because you're not low hanging fruit. If you're financing, if you've been worried about monthly payments, take care, because the $10-30/month they sell you can mean a bunch of money for them. They're going to try to get that money from you.

4c: Even if you have preapproved credit, or you have cash, the dealer may offer you some incredible financing or a good price if you finance. Whatever the situation, you can offer to finance through the dealership for a better price on the car. Promise the dealer you'll pay at least 3 payments before paying off the car. The dealer gets the credit for the loan (and the business manager makes his money) and you pay just 3 months of interest at their rate before you pay it off. You might be able to leverage a lower price on the car because the dealership is looking at "well, we can give him another $500 off the car and hit him for $2160 in interest/etc" which is just $30/month interest for 72 months.

5. Finally, if you really like a car, get it. I had someone looking at a new 550+ hp rear wheel drive car in November (in New England). He pushed off buying the car because "it'll be here in March". Another guy came in, off the street, and bought the car in maybe 2 hours. The first guy came in and couldn't believe it. Even if I'd called him he wouldn't have believed me. When we got in a used one (certified) the first guy snapped it up. We're talking a car that's totally undriveable in normal circumstances until March/April in the area. On another car I did a favor for another sales person and took their customer out for a drive just before close. I had someone on the same car, and they called me literally 5 minutes after the test drive customer left. My customer bought the car. Apparently the test drive customer called the next morning to buy the car. It was already sold (to my customer). Sometimes dealers will say "we have someone on that car right now". You have to make the gut decision but there might be some truth there. Where I worked we didn't say it because it just sounded too salesman-like.

6. Finally, check any memberships you might have. Costco has some discounts. AAA might. Etc. Those aren't as good as the "best" (like the Edmunds Price Promise SUV where I worked) but they are usually good, solid prices.

End of month really counts for some dealerships. Go in a week before end of month and see what they'll do. Give them time to prep the car, so last day is a bit tricky, but 3-4-5 days to go is fair. You'll get your car properly checked out, you can get Simonize if you want, etc.

Good luck.

[oldpotatoe]

Your box is full... PM me,,

USAA truecar etc are just lead generators for dealerships. They charge dealers to list on their sites and to have access to their customers. They dont leverage anything against a dealer.

All these prices are available to the general public and ultimately just may make it a shorter road to get to where you would have gotten anyway. Also internet contact will make it easier to figure out which dealers are dinosaurs and which actually do business in a modern fashion.

Hondas are relatively easy compared to other brands that often have sales objectives and crazy dealer money on them. Stability of used prices and the small delta between new and used reflect this.

for the odyssey you are looking at just find the invoice price on line. from that you have about 4% dealer money. Subtract that. Currently Honda is giving dealers a 1250 cash incentive so subtract that. You should be able to get it for a couple hundred about that total depending on what the dealer has in stock.

Also with that you can get 0.9% financing for 24-60. It does not require forgoing the cash incentive.

Odysseys are fairly plentiful at the moment but come end of may/june supply tightens up as miinivan season rolls in and demand goes thru the roof before summer vacations. Prices tend to go up during that time.

Let me know if I can help. I have a Honda dealership but would be cost effective for you to ship one from florida. I do however have a couple strong relationships with TX dealers so I can help make things smooth for you.

Its a great van. LMK if you need more info

For Campyorbust..THIS is why I stay and frequent this forum. The depth of knowledge, experience and the various fields the group here is in is just phenomenal.

[soulspinner]

un very cool to help.For Campyorbust..THIS is why I stay and frequent this forum. The depth of knowledge, experience and the various fields the group here is in is just phenomenal.

Yup. There are certain things I would ask here before I use the net for this reason. Ryun very cool you helping a bike pal...:beer:

[LJohnny]

Wow, Ryun and Carpediemracing: this is absolutely great info.
We got a sienna back in 2011 and the buying experience reflects a lot of what you are explaining.

I too started looking for a used van, but the prices for newish (within last 3-4 yrs) were not low enough to warrant going with a used car, so we shifted to searching for a new one. At that time Honda and Toyota's vans were pretty on par I believe. Currently I think Honda has the edge correct?

Op, good luck with the process. Along the years we have purchased 4 cars, 3 of those new and so far, car purchases are dreaded and the least preferred activity 😃


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[carpediemracing]

I too started looking for a used van, but the prices for newish (within last 3-4 yrs) were not low enough to warrant going with a used car, so we shifted to searching for a new one. At that time Honda and Toyota's vans were pretty on par I believe. Currently I think Honda has the edge correct?

I think for non-weather, meaning folks not subscribing to AWD, the Honda wins.

For weather folks, even those that on paper understand snow tires, AWD makes the Sienna the only choice out there.

My brother is on his 2nd Sienna. He likes the Honda better but there's some risk management factor that pulls him to the (AWD) Sienna. I've had many talks with him about snow tires etc. Still, I understand. AWD gets you moving, and moving quickly, in snow. FWD with snows may turn and stop, but there are times you just need to go. His driveway (the house where we all grew up) probably hits 10-12%, maybe more. It's one of those "freewheel tightening" grades in the old days, where you put it in your bottom gear and you can feel the freewheel tighten up just a touch for the first couple downstrokes.

[soulspinner]

Sold Toyotas many moons ago but to me Honda won with vacuum in the back. Itll get used!

[jlyon]

So current models should get much cheaper in the next few months.

Also from what I have seen the new one is much better looking and will be available with Honda Sensing (cool option you should read about it). So personally I would wait for that one.

FYI redesigned Toyota Sienna will be out at the end of this year.

So you just need to decide what you want and when.

[SlackMan]

A friend is a retired auto salesman. He says never go into a dealership to haggle, just use internet pricing.

^^^This. I've used it the last several times when I bought a car. Once a salesman gets you in the dealership, he can start wasting bunches of your time haggling and bargaining because he has nowhere to go anyway (he's at work). I research a good price from the resources the OP mentioned, and then start calling around. Without fail, every single one wants me to come in. I explain firmly that I am very busy, and that I'm not even thinking about coming into the dealership until I have a price I am happy with. I also call dealers in nearby cities, explain that I am from out of town, and that I am certainly not making the trip before I know a price. That works well too.

...and to the OP, it's probably older than you want, but we have a Honda Odyssey with ~79,000 miles on the clock that we plan to sell as soon as my wife finds what she wants as a replacement. It's been completely trouble free.

[pjm]

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2015-honda-odyssey-elite-vs-2015-kia-sedona-sxl-2015-toyota-sienna-limited-comparison-test

[oldpotatoe]

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2015-honda-odyssey-elite-vs-2015-kia-sedona-sxl-2015-toyota-sienna-limited-comparison-test

My son and daughter in law are going to look at either Toyota or Honda..geeeezzz, they aren't cheap, are they? I had no idea they were $40k++..