OT - Windows 10 and mini computers

[HenryA]

I am considering buying a PC running Windows of some variety. For some of my work I have to have one and the ancient machine in the spare bedroom is just barely able to do the job anymore.

Ive spent decades with Apple machines (since the beginning) but sometimes the only thing that will do is Windows. I'm thinking of one of the mini style "kit" machines to hook up to an existing desktop/monitor when I need it. Then I think I'd like to just leave it set up all the time and use it for other work - just because.

What I'm considering are the NUC boxes and similar. http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/nuc/overview.html Please tell me about those devices and Windows 10 and whether I'm likely to get along with them. Or, tell me about other options you think might be better for a long time Mac guy.

[ptourkin]

I have a NUC attached to my 55" Panasonic TV to run stuff we view online, mostly HBO and Eurosport via a VPN. It puts itself to sleep when not in use and I believe it's a very low electrical draw, also because it is running off a Samsung SSD which isn't doing anything until asked.

I'm running Windows 8 and have refused the Win 10 upgrade because it is running fine as is and I don't do much with it except for stream off the web. An Ubuntu based distro like Mint would run even faster and I'd do it except that Eurosport uses Silverlight and it's easier to just run that from Windows.

Check eBay against Amazon for deals on a NUC. I did much better on the bay.

[paredown]

I've been messing around with the poor man's NUC--a couple of AOpen Digital Engines. Picked them up used on eBay--they come with HDMI out, which is nice.

These are Core 2 Duo machines, so a couple of generations out of date, but work fine for streaming. Both are fanless as well which is nice.

I've got one running Windows 10 demo, and use it to stream Netflix and other stuff directly to the flat screen. The nice thing about the HDMI out is that it carries the audio as well, so it is a single cable connection.

I think I paid around $100 ea-. It pains me to say it, but XP and old hardware is a waste of time--buy in new, or the Core 2s/Windows 7 are cheap and will do what you want.

[benb]

It sounds like you're not going to use it for streaming and instead just want something to try out Windows 10 on.

If you were going to use it for streaming there isn't much point unless there is something else going on like pirating content that really only works with windows.

You can do streaming so much more easily/securely/with less hassle with any one of the dedicated streaming devices these days. Amazon TV Stick, Chromecast, Apple TV, any of the others, etc.. (All very inexpensive these days too.)

Win 10 is hard to get excited about. I had been strictly Mac at home from 2004-2012 when I rebuilt a linux box and installed Windows on it to save money for a photo editing machine. (I was using Windows all along at work.)

Windows 10 is just more Windows.. nothing really exciting, horrible, or great about it. It has most of the same annoyances vs Mac OS that it's always had. Almost all the touch stuff and new features are meaningless if you get a NUC or any other type of standard desktop and hook it up to a standard monitor with a keyboard and mouse. You're not really going to use it any different then Windows 7 on that type of machine. Most of the new tablet/touch style apps are very "Meh" on windows and they are really mediocre on a non touch device. It's also very blah compared to OS X since the UI is completely inconsistent, to a ridiculous degree if you're used to a mac. It's real strength is playing high end games, which has pretty much always been one of it's huge strengths. And that's probably irrelevant on a NUC.

Funny as I was running Mac for years at home and using Windows at Work.. pretty much since 2012 when I built my windows machine at home I've never used Windows again at work... for what I do it's become the standard thing to use Macs unless you are specifically building software for Windows that only runs on windows. (Which I've never done professionally.)

[CunegoFan]

I have a NUC with a fifth generationprocessor and right now I am waiting to purchase a Skylake NUC. I have not pulled the trigger because they have teething problems that appear to be both hardware and firmware. Intel has slipped in a hardware change (different capacitors) to improve memory compatibility. New versions of the BIOS keeps getting released to fix issues people are experiencing. Still those problems persist.

There is a thread on Intel's NUC forums titled something like "Does anyone have a Skylake NUC that works". It is filled with posts by people with a range of problems with their NUCs. The NUC blog also has a ton of comments by those experiencing problems. I don't want to deal with RMAing a new machine.

Perhaps because Intel has put so much effort into the Skull Canyon NUCs, those won't have the same issues.

Aside from that, NUCs are awesome. Mine has performed like a champ for general computing. If you are not a gamer or do not require super intensive computation, I don't see why anyone should have a traditional, hulking desktop. The gap to high end graphics cards is rapidly declining. Every iteration Intel improves its iGPUs. The Skylake stuff, especially the I7, should perform at the level of a mid priced dGPU and be suitable for a lot of games, just not the cutting edge ones. The option for eGPUs is just taking off. This small form factor stuff is the future, if we are not already there. Full sized towers are like looking at brick sized cell phones from the 80s.

I am a Linux guy but these days many of the Linux distros are about as heavyweight as Windows so I don't see why Windows 10 would be any problem. You can drop 32 gigs of RAM into the Skylake NUCs and the processors have better cooling than the even tighter space found in a laptop. That might be the quick test right there: If a laptop would work for what you want to do then so will a NUC.

[benb]

Every iteration Intel improves its iGPUs. The Skylake stuff, especially the I7, should perform at the level of a mid priced dGPU and be suitable for a lot of games, just not the cutting edge ones. The option for eGPUs is just taking off. This small form factor stuff is the future, if we are not already there. Full sized towers are like looking at brick sized cell phones from the 80s.

I am a Linux guy but these days many of the Linux distros are about as heavyweight as Windows so I don't see why Windows 10 would be any problem. You can drop 32 gigs of RAM into the Skylake NUCs and the processors have better cooling than the even tighter space found in a laptop. That might be the quick test right there: If a laptop would work for what you want to do then so will a NUC.

One super cool thing, and it can't be overstated, is Intel has a team of in-house engineers that work on the Linux drivers for their integrated graphics solutions, and the Open Source the driver source code.. it means the linux experience is pretty much best with the Intel graphics chips. It's a big deal IMO.

Linux is still incredibly lightweight compared to windows though! The disk footprint is a HUGE difference in particular. Say Ubuntu, you can click "install everything" and it will be 1/4 the disk footprint of bare windows with no applications installed. And "install everything" on linux is a ton of stuff. MS has improved this with Win 10 for sure though, it's much smaller than it used to be since they're shipping it on tablets.

[HenryA]

No gaming or streaming.

From time to time I have to view and listen to proprietary video and audio captures. There are multiple "standards" and all come with their own player. But there are no extreme requirements on the OS, processor or memory. At least not by current-day standards. I'm using an ancient Core2 Vpro with Vista now. It came to me almost free many years ago. Its incredibly slow. Slow enough that I'm about convinced to spend a little money and enter the modern ages.

The players only run on Windows - what versions I am not sure. I was thinking 10 might be nice with whatever improvements have been made to the UI and general friendliness. All that assumes the players I have to use would run on any version of Windows. Should I stick with an older version of Windows? Which one?

I'm thinking that if I'm buying a new box and a new OS, I should investigate it a bit and maybe buy something plenty good enough. I want a nice modern toaster. It'll mostly be used that way - as an appliance.

[CunegoFan]

One super cool thing, and it can't be overstated, is Intel has a team of in-house engineers that work on the Linux drivers for their integrated graphics solutions, and the Open Source the driver source code.. it means the linux experience is pretty much best with the Intel graphics chips. It's a big deal IMO.

Linux is still incredibly lightweight compared to windows though! The disk footprint is a HUGE difference in particular. Say Ubuntu, you can click "install everything" and it will be 1/4 the disk footprint of bare windows with no applications installed. And "install everything" on linux is a ton of stuff. MS has improved this with Win 10 for sure though, it's much smaller than it used to be since they're shipping it on tablets.

True and nice about the Intel drivers.

I don't see that the disk footprint is relevant today. Storage space is cheap, even for SSDs. A good Samsung SSD costs less than a dollar per gigabyte. RAM is also dirt cheap. A lot of effort has been put into Linux to give a more modern experience to the less techy user. The desktop environments have the same graphical eye candy as Windows and OS X, so I don't see them as being much lighter in weight. Of course, if you want to, you can easily replace the desktop environment and/or window manager to get something leaner or use a distro built for limited resource, an option you don't have with Windows; but that should not be required for any decently specced machine today, even a NUC.

[HillDancer]

I have a ZOTAC P1320 (https://www.zotac.com/us/product/mini_pcs/pi320) Pico running Windows 10. The unit is very small, fanless, boots in about 4 seconds, and has micro SD/SDHC/SDXC card slot for extra storage. Graphics performance is OK. I've had it for almost 2 years, so it's old tech, but not a butt-dragging slow experience like mechanical hard drive with older graphics.

An advantage for Windows 10 is touchscreen support. I had it on 7 and Ubuntu, but not as feature rich as 10. I dig 10 with classic view, and love using a large touchscreen.

[ceolwulf]

A Boot Camp partition and Parallels does fine for me for my Windows needs.

[CunegoFan]

Intel posted an update to its blog about probems with the Skylake NUCs:


Intel continues to actively investigate the “WHEA UNCORRECTABLE ERROR” issue reported by end users on the Intel® NUC Kit NUC6i3SYH, NUC Kit NUC6i3SYK, NUC Kit NUC6i5SYH, and NUC KitNUC6i5SYK products.

Intel has an internal task force diligently working to resolve this issue as soon as possible and deliver a robust solution for affected users. Intel does not currently have a workaround for this issue.

Intel confirms the issue currently being investigated is not corrected by any current BIOS, limiting C-states, updating the operating system software, or replacing peripheral components.

Intel appreciates the patience exhibited by affected users while we work to resolve this difficult issue. Users who see this error repeatedly on this product are encouraged to contact Intel Customer Support for assistance.

Intel will provide another update by Friday April 15th, or sooner if relevant information becomes available.

[oldpotatoe]

I am considering buying a PC running Windows of some variety. For some of my work I have to have one and the ancient machine in the spare bedroom is just barely able to do the job anymore.

Ive spent decades with Apple machines (since the beginning) but sometimes the only thing that will do is Windows. I'm thinking of one of the mini style "kit" machines to hook up to an existing desktop/monitor when I need it. Then I think I'd like to just leave it set up all the time and use it for other work - just because.

What I'm considering are the NUC boxes and similar. http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/nuc/overview.html Please tell me about those devices and Windows 10 and whether I'm likely to get along with them. Or, tell me about other options you think might be better for a long time Mac guy.

I read the gig about the intel thing and I'm not smart enough to now but have you looked at this?

Macmini

http://www.macofalltrades.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=MM-20-E09A&utm_source=googleshopping&utm_medium=cpc_feed&utm_campaign=comparison_shopping_feeds&gclid=CMKSk7PFgcwCFYSAaQod5NwBpQ