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[Gummee]

a. can be
b. typically
c. yes, but if you use a fork-mounted hanger, its better
d. yes, see above

Personally: mini-vs Cheap Tektros, or the nicer TRP 8.4s.

HTH

M

[alexsteinker]

I Run Paul brakes. Neo up front and touring in the rear. Also have an enve fork. Canti brakes are NOT hard to set up and who ever first started that rumor is no friend of mine.
My CX bike is lives many lives as a roadie, cx, gravel, xc, all kinds of roads. The brakes are awesome. If you can run a fork mounted cable hanger then go for it. If not eBay can source some slim headset spacer hangers.
I love these brakes. I use Kool stop pads (Salmon) on mine but there definitely are better pad options out there.

[ptourkin]

I have the same Paul combo on my Psychlo-X. I haven't had any major problems with shudder. I stuck with the Cool Stops for a while but have Shimano pads on now and it's still fine. Dialing cantis isn't that hard, or if it is, a good wrench can do it in 5 minutes. The only time this can be an issue in my experience is when swapping wheels of different widths - when I put my Major Tom tubies on, I need to adjust from the Ultegra tubeless, for example. Not so much of a problem as a reason to learn how to adjust cantis.

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[mktng]

I run Paul Touring f and r on mine. On Moots Cx fork.
- installed road pad holder
Fork mounted hanger.
Adjustments are easy.
Braking is fine, and there are no issues with shuddering.
Braking is strong too.


Only braking issues i've had recently had nothing to do with the brakes themselves...
The coated cables from shimano slip under heavy braking on my moon units :P

[oldpotatoe]

Find yerself some of these..use a fork mount hanger..black or silver.

[thirdgenbird]

A) it more work than a v brake or caliper, but it's not that bad. You install them once, you use them far more.
B) yes. Braking power is noticeably less. For me, it isn't inadequate. The improved modulation is worth it. (On my bike)
C) enve forks are supposed to be the best thing going for canti shudder (no perso onl experience)
D) yes, use a crown mounted stop, this eliminates shudder. Shudder is the fork flexing between the cable stop and brake pivots. Using a crown mounted stop reduces the "lever" and also isolates the force to the strongest part of the fork.

I LOVE my Campag canti brakes. They admittedly are finicky to put on. It's not hard or complicated, it would just pay to have a third hand to hold the straddle cable. Once you get them initially installed with everything snug, adjustments are easy and the braking feel is worth it.

As word of warning, Campag canti brakes are NLA. last I saw, planet bike had a few black sets for a fair price. It took me a while to find a silver set.

As a side note, I am far from anti v brake. They absolutely have their place.

[DRZRM]

There is a reason why so many people switched from cantis to mini-v brakes. If I'm commuting on a bike in traffic I want the most effective brakes I can get, and I think the v-brakes stop much better than any canti I've ever had. I switched out TRP carbons on one CX frame (Zanconato) and Paul cantis on the other (IF Ti Planet-X) and I can set up a canti petty well. I switched the IF to the TRP 8.4 and the Zanc to the Paul mini V brakes. There were a few issues getting the Pauls set up (wide rims narrow posts), but once I got it, they both work excellently with Campagnolo Record levers. Very happy with both.

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[thirdgenbird]

I perfer the cartridge pads and adjustments on the Campag over the Paul brakes. Paul brakes with cartridge psd holders and an aftermarket barrel adjuster is probably a sweet setup but considerably more money than Campag. (Is you didn't already own them)

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[chiasticon]

I'd say stick with the Paul option. do a search of CX bikes over on the Radavist and you'll see a ton of people use that combo or the Paul Racer in the front (like this awesome mudfoot (http://theradavist.com/2015/05/jasons-mudfoot-cross-with-campagnolo-11/#1)). more power up front, more mud clearance in the rear. plus they look great.

admittedly though, I have no experience with those particular brakes. I'm a huge fan of the Avid Shorty Ultimates; race them in CX and ride them on the road eight months of the year. no complaints. I would, however, also recommend that you use the fork mount holder. you won't *always* have fork shudder with cantis, but you can be d*amn sure you won't with a fork mount holder.

[thirdgenbird]

Yes, but if the Campa are so good straight out, rather than doing that Paul conversion I can simply sell both the Avid SD-ULT and Paul N-R/T combo, no?

Problem is, I have a kind of blind Campa affinity...but I'd rather brake clearly.

The campag brakes are fairly current. I think they disappeared from the catalog in 2015. They are tektro made, basically a unique arm with all of the hardware from TRPs carbon brakes.

The Pauls are very popular and the two brakes would probably be near identical if converted.

I use the tektro cable stop. I like it.

[DRZRM]

I actually like that Mudfoot setup a lot. Leave the canti in the rear, where they will work well enough to slow you down, and put one Paul minimoto up front where it needs no brake hanger, no need to raise your bars, and while those things are not cheap, buying just one brake for front end stopping (where you need the power of a mini-v) lowers your cost.

That said, I don't actually know much about the Campy flat bar units. Are those Avids MTB v-brakes? How much cable do the Chorus flat bar levers pull? Can they pull more than a road lever? As much as a MTB V-brake lever? If comparable to a v-brake lever, than I'd totally run the MTB v-brakes and be done with it. They modulate much better than mini-v brakes pulled by road levers and they are super easy to set up. If cable pull on the Chorus levers is the same as a Campy road lever, than I'd go back to the above statement. Single Paul minimoto up front, sell everything else. It may be a pain to set up, but once you do, it is pretty much set and forget. Use road cartridge pads and you are good to go.

What's your overall setup?

This is what I can't figure out without buying and using (which I will not do) all 3 types. So many different opinions; is it really that subjective? It's worse than the caliper/disc road debate...but at least I know that I don't drink the disc tea....

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[thirdgenbird]

I prefer the road pad holders on the campy brakes. These let you swig the brake past the frame/fork eliminating the need to deflate a wide tire when installing a wheel.

The campy brakes also come with a barrel adjuster on the straddle cable but Pauls do not.

You could put road pad holders and a barrel adjuster on your current Paul brakes and have the same thing.

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk177/thirdgenbird/arc-x/35541C71-B063-42DD-B323-CBE68DC28DB0_zpsoflrgr5v.jpg

Note the barrel adjuster on the drive side. A Paul doesn't come with this. The campy brakes also release from both arms, not just one. This also makes it easier to get a wheel with a wide tire into the frame without deflating.

I prefer the springs on the Paul brakes. If you could combine all of these things, it would be the perfect brake.

[tuscanyswe]

The cheap tektro´s are actually really nice cantis imo.

I remember having a slight issue with clearance of the brake arm when running tektro mini-vs on the same moots fork so that could be an issue with other manuf as well if you are going with the moots cx fork that is.

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[thirdgenbird]

The Campagnolo flat bar levers are for caliper/canti/mini v brakes and are not compatible with full size v brakes.

Campagnolo sold their flat bar levers as compatible with their road calipers or some mini v brakes that I believe we're rebranded tektro mini v brakes. As in the other thread, people keep saying the mini v is a recent thing but it's not.

I think these were around 10 years ago. Tektro 15+
http://forum.cyclinguk.org/userpix/1498_veloce_linear_pull_1.jpg

No, I don't see it. Do you mean the black adjuster on the NDS?

Yes

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[thirdgenbird]

That's the cable stop I have and like it so far.


Don't be too quick to sell the Pauls you can swap the pads and add the adjuster and funtionally have the same thing. The Pauls have better workmanship but the campy is well, campy. You could also probably sell the Paul brakes for more than the cost of the Campagnolo stoppers.

I only pictured them for reference. I doubt you would ever find a set anyway :)

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[thirdgenbird]

Do you have recommendations for those parts?

I think tektro/TRP and several others sell the pad holders.

There is actually a recent thread about the adjuster:
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=184862

I would check in with angry.

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[thirdgenbird]

I don't have enough experiance with the Pauls to say they are equal, but I would assume it's close.

I think Gomango said he prefers the Campag brakes to the Pauls and he has bike with each. Price is what sold me on the Campag brakes. They are/were a great value in comparison to Paul.

The hunter adjuster works with both by the way:
http://huntercycles.bigcartel.com/product/hunter-nugz
Paul shares hardware with both styles.

[AngryScientist]

good thread.

my PSX moots only has a front brake on it, as it's a fixie.

i'm currently running a shimano cx-70 on the front fork. works fantastically. it's a steel fork, and a heavy one at that. brake shudder is non existent, and stopping power is good enough to lock up the front wheel, no problem.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-zfGBtb2auxc/VTRU3dqKQ3I/AAAAAAAACAw/7F4p2Jt1g9Q/s1200/P1080466.JPG

[gomango]

I don't have enough experiance with the Pauls to say they are equal, but I would assume it's close.

I think Gomango said he prefers the Campag brakes to the Pauls and he has bike with each. Price is what sold me on the Campag brakes. They are/were a great value in comparison to Paul.

The hunter adjuster works with both by the way:
http://huntercycles.bigcartel.com/product/hunter-nugz
Paul shares hardware with both styles.

I still have the Campy cantis on the Merckx.

Nice brakes.

I have a little over 3,000 miles on them and they are going strong.

As for the Pauls, I use those as well. Neo Retro and touring mix. Have a set on my Croll and another set waiting in the wings for my Weigle that I have my heart set on.

FWIW The value deal is the Tektro 720 set. Add Kool Stops and they rock for $50 or so. My riding sidekick has them on his IF and they really do a great job for an el-cheapo price.

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[thirdgenbird]

You could be happy with the Pauls as is but selling them for Campag may still be cheaper. I got mine new for about $80 shipped.

[pdmtong]

IMHO cantis modulate well, can be prone to shudder, have excellent clearance for mud and tires, are simple, but take care in set up.

they do not stop anywhere near as well as v-brakes. you want wheel lock-up power? get a v-brake.

the v-brakes are more on/off (but not completely binary). My TRPs have a lot of lever pull to engage them, which means the shift paddle overlaps the bar when fully applied. this can be weird at best, or disconcerting at worse.

for what i want, a canti is not the choice. v-brake all the way.

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[mistermo]

PX here too. With Paul cantis. They work fine on an Alpha Q CX20 fork. I've used mini Vs and, while they work, I found them to be too grabby. They seemed either all on, or all off.

Ive found that the fork makes the biggest difference in braking quality. On a different bike, I had a Reynolds CX fork that shuddered way too much. I swapped brakes, messed with different locations of the cable hanger, nothing made it work. Finally, I replaced the Reynolds fork with a steel fork and the braking (with Pauls) became perfect. Later, I replaced the steel fork with an Enve and the Enve was fine too. The Alpha Q on the PX works great as well.

LIke others have said, a fork mounted hanger helps lots, but you can't do this on an ENVE.

PS. They make silver (pewter really) Avid Ultimate cantis.

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[thirdgenbird]

bird, can one put any road pad holder (Campa, KoolStop, etc.) on the Campa CX or the Paul combo, or do the pad holders have to be a specific type/model?

You need the longer "canti style" hardware but the pads are the same:
https://www.trpbrakes.com/category.php?productid=1088&catid=187

http://gevenalle.com/product/brakescross/

[chiasticon]

FWIW The value deal is the Tektro 720 set. Add Kool Stops and they rock for $50 or so. My riding sidekick has them on his IF and they really do a great job for an el-cheapo price.yep. got a pair of these on a cx bike and planned to swap 'em for shorty ultimates but then found out they work just fine. they only sacrifice a few grams to the shorty ultimates but are 1/3 of the price (or less). plenty of stopping power too, as I mostly have ridden that cx bike on singletrack and have never been wanting for brake power. the only gripe is that if you have multiple wheel widths, it's a pain to re-adjust the width/stance.

OP: you're really over-thinking this. you have them both, so just try them both. if one will require you to cut the cable shorter than the other, then only try that one if you don't like the other first.

[thwart]

OP: you're really over-thinking this. you have them both, so just try them both. if one will require you to cut the cable shorter than the other, then only try that one if you don't like the other first.

This.

See my Moots PSX in the production gallery... Reynolds CX fork with Campy cantis... works very well.

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[thirdgenbird]

Black or silver?

Get that tektro cable stop and we will have matching setups.

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[mktng]

Thanks for the heads up on hunter nugz. Totally ordering a pair. !

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