Rim decisions need opinons

[bob59]

Building up a new set of wheels. King R45's, 20/24, Sapim CX-Ray, rims??

Currently have old style Pacenti SL 23's. Happy with them unless I have to change a tire. It is a PITA. Tried different tires, different techniques, different people still PITA. Supposedly the new ones are easier. My shop has recommend against Pacenti due to quality issues. Multiple pulled spokes, cracks at the welds etc. I trust their opinion. Recommend H+ or HED.

Running 28-30mm tires. H+ is 23mm, SL23 24.5, HED 23MM

H+ $80, HED $130. Are the HED's $50 better. Think they are all made in China.

Should I consider HED+ at 25mm?

[ColonelJLloyd]

Have you looked at the Velocity Quill? 21.1mm inside and made in the U.S.

[spartanKid]

Have you looked at the Velocity Quill? 21.1mm inside and made in the U.S.

Or Velocity a23s

[ColonelJLloyd]

Or Velocity a23s

They're great and I'm riding them now. But, if I were building up a 700c rim brake set now it would be with the Quills.

[Fivethumbs]

I still like open pros

[YesNdeed]

My shop has recommend against Pacenti due to quality issues. Multiple pulled spokes, cracks at the welds etc.

+1. Noticed this late Saturday, day before race day (of course). Built by a trusted, professional wheel builder. Sent place of purchase a warranty inquiry email over the weekend, haven't heard back. Sent Pacenti a message tonight. Wish me luck.

[cinema]

wow is that the new style? scary, i have those rims.

[cachagua]

Should I consider HED+ at 25mm?

All I can tell you about those is I found them WAY easier to mount tires on than either TB-14s or "regular" Belgiums. As easy as Open Pros.

They look like a good investment to me.

[CiclistiCliff]

HED are worth it.

A23 are terrible.

[ColonelJLloyd]

A23 are terrible.

Just want to leave it at that or care to expound?

[CiclistiCliff]

Just want to leave it at that or care to expound?

Machining for brake surface is terrible. They're soft. They don't like high tension even within spec, the paint is terrible. The seams are junk.

Hold an Archetype next to any velocity product and you'll see and feel the difference. Then grab a Hed rim. Why lace cheap rims to fancy hubs? I simply don't understand how/why Velocity has such a following? Is it because shop employees get such good deals they push that product?

This is coming from a shop guy. Spend the extra dollars and get HEDs. They lace up and tension beautifully. They're laterally stiff and finish quality is fantastic. Archetypes are fantastic but not as wide as HEDs. Not tubeless compatible.

Any reason why DT Swiss hoops aren't being considered?

[CiclistiCliff]

Also, OP what type of riding are you doing and how much do you weigh?

20/24 with 28-30mm? If this is for gravel/dirt type riding I'd suggest higher spoke count. 24/28 or 28/32 but yeah.

Good luck

[oldpotatoe]

Building up a new set of wheels. King R45's, 20/24, Sapim CX-Ray, rims??

Currently have old style Pacenti SL 23's. Happy with them unless I have to change a tire. It is a PITA. Tried different tires, different techniques, different people still PITA. Supposedly the new ones are easier. My shop has recommend against Pacenti due to quality issues. Multiple pulled spokes, cracks at the welds etc. I trust their opinion. Recommend H+ or HED.

Running 28-30mm tires. H+ is 23mm, SL23 24.5, HED 23MM

H+ $80, HED $130. Are the HED's $50 better. Think they are all made in China.

Should I consider HED+ at 25mm?

HED rims are nice, and I build with them but as you mention, I don't think $50 better..I'd go H+Son, then HED..and if you are a lightweight, maybe 20/24-, maybe CX-Ray..but lots of $ for these spokes. I think a mix of Sapim Race, rear drive side, and Lasers everywhere else would be a better choice(since you mention $). And say 24/28, or 28/32?..depends on you. Remember, 4 spokes weigh about an ounce and more spokes= reliable wheel.

[oldpotatoe]

HED are worth it.

A23 are terrible.

First gen A23, right after they moved production to FLA had QC problems. Lately, as in last 6-7 months, I have built MANY A23 along with a lot of other Velocity rims and have had no issues at all. This is coming from a 'shop guy' as well.

HED-'worth', at Retail-$150..cost is $99 to me..nice rims but...after building all mentioned and then waiting for any issues..just not sure they are $50-$75 per rim better, IMHO-

DT440, best rims I have built but not 'wide'-kinda mid wide'.

[ergott]

I think rims like the DT 440 that are "mid" wide are often overlooked. I happen to really like that rim, have a set for my Ottrott. The Ottrott has limited clearance in the rear triangle so wider rims were out of the running.

Still, my 23mm Schwalbe One tubeless measure 25mm. The ride is great. If you like a more classic look, bonus. The quality is excellent.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[Lovetoclimb]

I have a wheelset I built using Record Hubs and H Plus Son Archetype rims in 32 3x fr and rr and it has been fantastic. I have only built a handfull of wheelsets and ridden them all myself, with this set having seen the most abuse by far. It is fitted with 28mm Specialized Roubaix tires which measure 30mm and is used on a travel bike which I also ride on mixed surface roads at home. A few dents from travel, almost certainly uneven spoke tension by now, and some flex when I'm out of the saddle climbing in the lowest gear (27t). But mounting tires, overall ride quality, return on investment, every box is ticked for those rims. I believe spokes were Sapim.

I have other wheelsets, one with Hed Belgiums on CK hubs that was built by a local wheelbuilder and they are noticeably more stiff (28 2x fr and rr) and as such are on my other road bike which is the go fast bike.

So my recommendation is go for the H Plus Son unless the money is no big deal then go for the Belgiums. If you think you will want tubeless capability in the future go for the Belgium+ option.

FWIW I plan on having my next wheelset, which will be later this year for an "adventure/bikepacking/the current trends" bike on Velocity Blunt rims, so I am not a Velocity hater, just limited in my experience with them.

[weisan]

>>Currently have old style Pacenti SL 23's. Happy with them unless I have to change a tire. It is a PITA.

Bob pal, I was in the same boat. Made a switch to the newer version and that problem essentially went away.

The master builders in the house have already chimed in, so my opinion count way less than them. I would go with H+ Son Archetype if I am in your situation. I built one up for my adventure bike and it's holding up the abuse very well, zero issue.

[FreeFour]

HED Belgium Plus all the way if you've got the clearance.

Not only do they build up well, but they're also finished considerably better than the A23 and H+Son. Tubeless compatibility is nice to have too.

[berserk87]

First gen A23, right after they moved production to FLA had QC problems. Lately, as in last 6-7 months, I have built MANY A23 along with a lot of other Velocity rims and have had no issues at all. This is coming from a 'shop guy' as well.

HED-'worth', at Retail-$150..cost is $99 to me..nice rims but...after building all mentioned and then waiting for any issues..just not sure they are $50-$75 per rim better, IMHO-

DT440, best rims I have built but not 'wide'-kinda mid wide'.

Oldpotatoe just built me a set of DT440's around my existing King R45 hubs and they are the bomb-diggity. I chose the DT440 rim based on his opinion of them and have been happy with the selection.

I can't thank him enough. I rode them this weekend over the crappiest roads that west-central Indiana can offer and I have not managed to break them. I am normally the black death of wheels and these are solid.

Currently running Veloflex Masters 25c on them at 80 to 90psi and the ride is smooth. I am not an adherent to super wide rims but the DT's are a nice compromise, and easy to mount tires on.

[oldpotatoe]

Oldpotatoe just built me a set of DT440's around my existing King R45 hubs and they are the bomb-diggity. I chose the DT440 rim based on his opinion of them and have been happy with the selection.

I can't thank him enough. I rode them this weekend over the crappiest roads that west-central Indiana can offer and I have not managed to break them. I am normally the black death of wheels and these are solid.

Currently running Veloflex Masters 25c on them at 80 to 90psi and the ride is smooth. I am not an adherent to super wide rims but the DT's are a nice compromise, and easy to mount tires on.

Yikes, 'Black Death'....thanks for the pitch, DT440 are really great rims.

[Black Dog]

+1. Noticed this late Saturday, day before race day (of course). Built by a trusted, professional wheel builder. Sent place of purchase a warranty inquiry email over the weekend, haven't heard back. Sent Pacenti a message tonight. Wish me luck.

A trusted builder can still over tension a wheel, especially with low spoke counts. Was that pull through on the rear drive side? Pacenti does publish the maximum tension for this very reason. The new version has a deeper spoke bed to help prevent thus type of failure from over tensioning or in general. Non the less, they will stand behind their product. Not saying it was a builder issue.

[soulspinner]

First gen A23, right after they moved production to FLA had QC problems. Lately, as in last 6-7 months, I have built MANY A23 along with a lot of other Velocity rims and have had no issues at all. This is coming from a 'shop guy' as well.

HED-'worth', at Retail-$150..cost is $99 to me..nice rims but...after building all mentioned and then waiting for any issues..just not sure they are $50-$75 per rim better, IMHO-

DT440, best rims I have built but not 'wide'-kinda mid wide'.

Seems like the Dt 440 and 25mm tires would be a nice combo...

[Bostic]

My first generation Pacenti SL 23 had the same problem as the picture above. A replacement rim was promptly sent to the builder but I went with the newer version for front and back instead. The front unfortunately has the loose what's it called where it gets welded so there is a distinct rattle when you bounce the tire. After reading up, looks like I could put some expanding foam in there, loctite or super glue. The newer version of the rims are still pretty unpleasant to mount tires on and I've tried both Conti 700x28 4 Season and Gatorskins. I put two steel core tire levers in the saddle bag now.

If the Hed + are that easy to mount tires on, that might be worth the price to me.

[YesNdeed]

My first generation Pacenti SL 23 had the same problem as the picture above. A replacement rim was promptly sent...

The front unfortunately has the loose what's it called where it gets welded so there is a distinct rattle...

Rims are still pretty unpleasant to mount tires on

Good to know. I have the version 2, which I assume are still the "new" ones. I have replacement spokes on the ready, so I hope it works out. I am, however, reading rim recommendations carefully.

I had the rattling too. Easy fix with regular super glue of the non viscous type.

Yup. Two Pedro's levers and exorbitant expletive shouting does the trick.

[jtbadge]

The new SL23s were awesome on paper, but I have seen more problems with my friends' sets than I am willing to risk. Pacenti has definitely been taking care of them, though.

I have had nothing but great rides on my Archetypes. Stay true and ride solid, even for a rider at 215# that is not gentle. Looking into another set with the grey/hard ano finish laced to some White T11s for my new Lemond.

[oldpotatoe]

The new SL23s were awesome on paper, but I have seen more problems with my friends' sets than I am willing to risk. Pacenti has definitely been taking care of them, though.

I have had nothing but great rides on my Archetypes. Stay true and ride solid, even for a rider at 215# that is not gentle. Looking into another set with the grey/hard ano finish laced to some White T11s for my new Lemond.

You buy the hubs and send them to me, I'll supply the rims and build them for you. PM or email if interested.

Pchisholm172@gmail.com

[ptourkin]

Has anyone actually obtained a Velocity Quill rim? Friend is looking to build up a Landshark with silver components and LBS hasn't been able to get some to build.

[bob59]

Thanks for all the inputs. I got a flat out on the road with my Pacenti's and was unable to remove the tire for repair. Flagged down several others and nobody was able to get the tire off the rim. Luckily I had cell coverage and Uber came to the rescue. Sort of PO'ed. Had heard the new rim's were better. Then my shop described what other's have posted. Pulled spokes and the more annoying lose metal in the rim. Hopefully Pacenti is aware of the problems and has a solution. I called 3-4 weeks ago and Kurt was in Taiwan and the person answering the phone had "no comment" until Kurt returned. I would be willing to try them again but not sure the bugs are worked out. Even if you do get a replacement who pays for the labor for the rebuild. Looks like H+ is going to get my money on this set of wheels.

Thanks again for all the input!!

[Ralph]

Does no one make nice rims anymore with ERD's in the low 580's? All these tubeless ready rims with ERD's in the high 590's make changing flats very difficult for us guys still running tubes. Just looking at the DT rims, all the ERD's are like 599 or 595, etc. I refuse to buy new rims that make changing difficult.

I had a flat this AM on my NON tubeless ready Campy Zonda's. Put tire back on with my fingers.

[oldpotatoe]

Has anyone actually obtained a Velocity Quill rim? Friend is looking to build up a Landshark with silver components and LBS hasn't been able to get some to build.

I'll ask.

[oldpotatoe]

Does no one make nice rims anymore with ERD's in the low 580's? All these tubeless ready rims with ERD's in the high 590's make changing flats very difficult for us guys still running tubes. Just looking at the DT rims, all the ERD's are like 599 or 595, etc. I refuse to buy new rims that make changing difficult.

I had a flat this AM on my NON tubeless ready Campy Zonda's. Put tire back on with my fingers.

Not the ERD(open pro is 602) but height of sidewalls.

[ptourkin]

I'll ask.

Thank you.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Does no one make nice rims anymore with ERD's in the low 580's? All these tubeless ready rims with ERD's in the high 590's make changing flats very difficult for us guys still running tubes. Just looking at the DT rims, all the ERD's are like 599 or 595, etc. I refuse to buy new rims that make changing difficult.

I had a flat this AM on my NON tubeless ready Campy Zonda's. Put tire back on with my fingers.

What rim strip/tape are you using?

[Fatty]

Does no one make nice rims anymore with ERD's in the low 580's? All these tubeless ready rims with ERD's in the high 590's make changing flats very difficult for us guys still running tubes. Just looking at the DT rims, all the ERD's are like 599 or 595, etc. I refuse to buy new rims that make changing difficult.

I had a flat this AM on my NON tubeless ready Campy Zonda's. Put tire back on with my fingers.

Not sure what ERD has to do with ease of mounting tires. Have my eye on these rims. Waiting on 28/32 to become available.

https://www.dtswiss.com/Components/Rims-Road/RR-511

[guido]

I can put Compass Barlow Pass tires (with tubes) on new style SL23s without tools. They go on really nice...

[Climb01742]

Not the ERD(open pro is 602) but height of sidewalls.

oldpotatoe,

Would mind explaining what makes rims easy or hard to mount tires on? BTW, what does 'ERD' mean? Thx.

[ergott]

ERD is effective rim diameter. It pertains to calculating the length of the spokes.

What makes a tire hard/easy to mount is twofold. One is the overall circumference of the outer edge of the rim. The other is the depth of the center (usually the lowest point) of the tire bed. The overall diameter of the rim usually doesn't vary much. If you have a rim bed that is too shallow you don't have anywhere for the tire to go while you try and pry over the last part of the bead.

[Keith A]

https://leonard.io/edd/static/images/erd.png

[oldpotatoe]

oldpotatoe,

Would mind explaining what makes rims easy or hard to mount tires on? BTW, what does 'ERD' mean? Thx.

Effective Rim Diameter, essentially the diameter, opposite spoke hole to opposite spoke hole for determining spoke length. 700c wheels all have the same head seat diameter, written on side of tire. 622 for 700c. But rims that become tubeless have taller side walls so the tire seats and doesn't blow off. Some rim makers do this better than others.

[Climb01742]

ERD is effective rim diameter. It pertains to calculating the length of the spokes.

What makes a tire hard/easy to mount is twofold. One is the overall circumference of the outer edge of the rim. The other is the depth of the center (usually the lowest point) of the tire bed. The overall diameter of the rim usually doesn't vary much. If you have a rim bed that is too shallow you don't have anywhere for the tire to go while you try and pry over the last part of the bead.

Eric,

Thanks for the reply. In your experience, which of the wider rims are best for ease of mounting tires? Thx.

[ergott]

Eric,

Thanks for the reply. In your experience, which of the wider rims are best for ease of mounting tires? Thx.
Hed (both widths), SL23 version 2, DT 440, Ryde (new rim to US market), Archetype. Those are all rims I have personally installed tires on and never had difficulty.

Key is using tubeless tape even if you use standard tire/tube. It's much thinner than cloth and even easier than Veloplugs.

Other key is taking your time. I Always keep as much of the tire bead I am working on in the middle of the rim bed. As I get closer to finishing at the valve, I go back and keep shifting tire bead into that middle low section. It can shift as I go. I keep shifting that bead all the time until I have about 3-4in of bead left. Then I am able to work the rest over without tools. Worst case, I use the Kool Stop tire bead jack. That's safe for both the tire bead and the rim.

When removing, I reverse the process of working all the bead into the middle of the tire bed. I use Soma levers that are plastic with a steel core. They are strong, light, and safe for carbon rims. I also only remove one bead when replacing tube. No need to remove whole tire.

The more you insure the bead is in the middle of tire bed the easier a tire is to remove/install.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[EDS]

Does no one make nice rims anymore with ERD's in the low 580's? All these tubeless ready rims with ERD's in the high 590's make changing flats very difficult for us guys still running tubes. Just looking at the DT rims, all the ERD's are like 599 or 595, etc. I refuse to buy new rims that make changing difficult.

I had a flat this AM on my NON tubeless ready Campy Zonda's. Put tire back on with my fingers.

For what it is worth, I can mount tires on my H+Son Archetypes with just my fingers (I do require a tire lever to remove them). I mostly use Schwalbe tires.

[oldpotatoe]

Has anyone actually obtained a Velocity Quill rim? Friend is looking to build up a Landshark with silver components and LBS hasn't been able to get some to build.

Adam at Velocity says indefinite back order, sounds like some problem in production.

[donevwil]

Adam at Velocity says indefinite back order, sounds like some problem in production.

We can hope the rims are going through a more rigorous QA than the first domestic A23s did. Still a bad taste in my mouth from that experience.

[weisan]

Hed (both widths), SL23 version 2, DT 440, Ryde (new rim to US market), Archetype. Those are all rims I have personally installed tires on and never had difficulty.

Key is using tubeless tape even if you use standard tire/tube. It's much thinner than cloth and even easier than Veloplugs.

Other key is taking your time. I Always keep as much of the tire bead I am working on in the middle of the rim bed. As I get closer to finishing at the valve, I go back and keep shifting tire bead into that middle low section. It can shift as I go. I keep shifting that bead all the time until I have about 3-4in of bead left. Then I am able to work the rest over without tools. Worst case, I use the Kool Stop tire bead jack. That's safe for both the tire bead and the rim.

When removing, I reverse the process of working all the bead into the middle of the tire bed. I use Soma levers that are plastic with a steel core. They are strong, light, and safe for carbon rims. I also only remove one bead when replacing tube. No need to remove whole tire.

The more you insure the bead is in the middle of tire bed the easier a tire is to remove/install.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Ever since I employed Ergott pal's recommendation, I have successfully installed tires with bare hands and not needing any tools - Pacenti SL23, Velocity, Archetype, HED...you name it.

[OtayBW]

...As I get closer to finishing at the valve...
I always start at the valve and work my way around. Am I doing something wrong? Do I need to re-subscribe to Bicycling Magazine?

[Black Dog]

I always start at the valve and work my way around. Am I doing something wrong? Do I need to re-subscribe to Bicycling Magazine?

With hard to mount tires doing the valve last makes it easier since the valve is not preventing the tire from sitting in the bottom of the rim well. I was also taught way back to do valve 1st and still do out of habit unless things get tough.

[Tony]

Hed (both widths), SL23 version 2, DT 440, Ryde (new rim to US market), Archetype. Those are all rims I have personally installed tires on and never had difficulty.

Key is using tubeless tape even if you use standard tire/tube. It's much thinner than cloth and even easier than Veloplugs.

Other key is taking your time. I Always keep as much of the tire bead I am working on in the middle of the rim bed. As I get closer to finishing at the valve, I go back and keep shifting tire bead into that middle low section. It can shift as I go. I keep shifting that bead all the time until I have about 3-4in of bead left. Then I am able to work the rest over without tools. Worst case, I use the Kool Stop tire bead jack. That's safe for both the tire bead and the rim.

When removing, I reverse the process of working all the bead into the middle of the tire bed. I use Soma levers that are plastic with a steel core. They are strong, light, and safe for carbon rims. I also only remove one bead when replacing tube. No need to remove whole tire.

The more you insure the bead is in the middle of tire bed the easier a tire is to remove/install.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

I have both, Hed (both widths), and the SL23 version 2. I have installed three different tires on all three using the above methed with no problems.

[ptourkin]

Adam at Velocity says indefinite back order, sounds like some problem in production.

Passing that on, thank you.

[livingminimal]

Regular user of HED Belgiums + H-Plus Archetypes...not sure there's a 50/each difference in getting HEDs, then again, $100 is a pittance to pay for an absolutely bomb-proof wheel with a near-flawless record. Probably happy either way, truly might just come down to aesthetics if I had to choose for a new set. I have multiple sets for each, I use the H+ on my disc bikes, really like how they ride...

[guido]

I had a HED Belgium plus dent nastily when I didn't actually feel the impact... It just started bumping annoyingly while braking... (A bit frightening to discover while decending Mount Wachusett...) Couldn't get it to straighten either...

[Kirk Pacenti]

Sorry to see this. Don't recall seeing any emails regarding this rim, but feel free to have your shop contact me directly and we'll get you taken care of ASAP.

kirk@pacenticycledesign.com / 423.531.6136

Cheers,
KP


+1. Noticed this late Saturday, day before race day (of course). Built by a trusted, professional wheel builder. Sent place of purchase a warranty inquiry email over the weekend, haven't heard back. Sent Pacenti a message tonight. Wish me luck.

[fignon's barber]

I've got the Hed Belgium and the Archetypes. Very similar. Braking surface and finish slightly better on the HED, the Archetypes look better on a classic bike. Had the SL23, but the spokes pulled out (like the picture on page one) of the rims after less than 500 miles on a 28 hole rim (160 lb rider).

[MaraudingWalrus]

Belgiums still seem the talk of the town..

Going to do a new build for myself in the next couple weeks.


Any word back on the Quills ? Are they still in hold?

Pacentis still seem to have their problems. Already had the Archetypes, wanting to try something new.

I'd love to go Belgium+, but can't imagine them fitting on the bike (Caad12)

[oldpotatoe]

Belgiums still seem the talk of the town..

Going to do a new build for myself in the next couple weeks.


Any word back on the Quills ? Are they still in hold?

Pacentis still seem to have their problems. Already had the Archetypes, wanting to try something new.

I'd love to go Belgium+, but can't imagine them fitting on the bike (Caad12)

Don't think you are going to see these for a while.

HED are great rims but I just don't understand what makes them 30-40+% 'better' than some others. IMHO.

[echelon_john]

I built up a set of Quills about a month ago. Must have been before they went dry? Built up fine. Not as easy as Belgiums/Archetypes/etc but fine.

Another rim that I really like is the DT R460. Kind of an "A23 Killer." If price is an issue and you don't want to spring for HED, etc, they're a very good alternative.

[Black Dog]

I built up a set of Quills about a month ago. Must have been before they went dry? Built up fine. Not as easy as Belgiums/Archetypes/etc but fine.

Another rim that I really like is the DT R460. Kind of an "A23 Killer." If price is an issue and you don't want to spring for HED, etc, they're a very good alternative.

I have built and put many miles on a set of DT R460's and they have held up very well. Decent quality.

[geordanh]

+1 for Hed Belgiums. Build up amazingly, stay true, easily the best rim I've ever ridden.

Just a note that if you decide to guy the extra wide belgium route (plus, 25mm) you may run into brake power issues with small reach brakes.

[chiasticon]

have a couple sets of Belgiums and love them (actually some tubulars too, which are equally great). also been using the first gen SL23's for a couple years, but mostly with fatter tires for gravel riding and cx practice. they were a little tough to fit, but not crazy, and they've been really great rims overall. then I tried mounting up 25mm Conti Four Seasons the other day. wholly moly! not happening. I tried for a while and even had to resort to using Pedro's levers; I was sweating all over the beast, pulling out every curse I could muster. it would not budge. the bead on the four seasons is quite strong.

I had planned on leaving a different set of tires on my Belgiums for other riding, but instead had to put the four seasons on them. went on in a snap. no tire lever needed. so I'll probably leave the SL23's for the wider tires. eventually I'll set them up tubeless. well...maybe... I mean they were designed for it right? that's why they hold tires so tightly, right? well, I had a friend recently try it with the same gen of SL23's and a set of Schwalbe G-One's; he actually didn't even add sealant but did a test mount. couldn't get them off over the course of an hour. took 'em to a shop and two well-seasoned, lifetime mechanics went through several tire levers getting them off.

anyway...point is both rims are great, but I would definitely give Belgiums the edge.

[Bradford]

...I tried for a while and even had to resort to using Pedro's levers; I was sweating all over the beast, pulling out every curse I could muster. it would not budge.

Did you try Ergott's technique? I've had SL23's for 18 months. When I first mounted some Contis on them, I had the same experience you described. Last week, using Ergott's technique and a tire jack, I was able to pop a couple of tires on and off easily. I'm sure that doesn't work for every tire, but the difference for GP4000s (both I and IIs) was night and day.

[chiasticon]

Did you try Ergott's technique?I did and it still did not work. HOWEVER, I am using Velox rim tape! :eek:

maybe I should try Stan's tape?

[Pastashop]

The worst combo in my experience used to be Michelin tires on Campagnolo rims with Velox rim tape. Are they still bad?.. Nowadays, Pana Gravel Kings (28) on Open Pro and Bob's yer uncle! (My next build might well involve rims from Compass... Most likely in 650b, but don't tell anyone!)

[MaraudingWalrus]

Don't think you are going to see these for a while.

HED are great rims but I just don't understand what makes them 30-40+% 'better' than some others. IMHO.



Yep. Got an email back from Velocity late yesterday. Doesn't sound like those will be around again for quite a while.

[PaMtbRider]

I've built 3 sets of wheels with HED belgiums. You can usually get them for around $100 a rim. I don't have a lot of build experience so I can't compare how they are to build compared to other rims, but the finished wheels look and work great.

I helped a friend build wheels with V1 and then V2 Pacenti rims. V2 is a definite improvement but still not as easy to mount a tire or as nicely finished as the HEDs.

My wife's Kirk has Joe Young built wheels with Velocity A23 rims. Easy enough to mount tires but can sometimes be a pain to get the bead to seat.

It might be a small premium for the HED rims, but when considering the overall cost of wheels / bikes, it's worth it to me.

[Kirk Pacenti]

I did and it still did not work. HOWEVER, I am using Velox rim tape! :eek:

maybe I should try Stan's tape?

Velox is too thick and grippy, it will make mounting tires on any tubeless compatible rim (and some non-tubeless rims) extremely difficult, if not impossible.

The use of tubeless tape (any brand) will completely alleviate the issue.

[12snap]

Velox is too thick and grippy, it will make mounting tires on any tubeless compatible rim (an some non-tubeless) rims extremely difficult, if not impossible.

The use of tubeless tape (any brand) will completely alleviate the issue.

Agreed. I have the old style SL23 rims with tubeless tape and have no problems mounting tires. I do follow Ergott's method of making sure the bead is as far down in the center channel as possible. I also seat the bead at the valve stem last. Once I switched to that technique I was able to install Rubino Pro 3s and Schwalbe ZX tires only using my fingers.

[betahprod]

Or Velocity a23s

I second A23's. The rim is built completely as one piece, so it's difficult to get it to exact true-ness while building but you can get it within 1mm. Tubeless compatible and one strong rim. I use them for cross and they are wide profile! Best bang for the buck.

[madcow]

For those that love the Hed quality but not the + price I'd recommend the Easton R90SL. It comes from the same factory as the Hed and is the same stellar quality but about 20% less expensive. Dimensionally it falls between the Belgium and the Plus with an inner width of 19.5. It's a touch deeper than the Hed, a little lighter than the Hed and every bit as good in quality. It also has decals which are easy to remove for those that like such things.

[buldogge]

Hmm...Interesting rim option...but...looks like R90s cost more than HED C2...little less than HED Plus.

-Mark in St. Louis

For those that love the Hed quality but not the + price I'd recommend the Easton R90SL. It comes from the same factory as the Hed and is the same stellar quality but about 20% less expensive. Dimensionally it falls between the Belgium and the Plus with an inner width of 19.5. It's a touch deeper than the Hed, a little lighter than the Hed and every bit as good in quality. It also has decals which are easy to remove for those that like such things.

[Fivethumbs]

I stopped using Velox and switched to Ritchey snap-on rim tape. It makes mounting tires much easier, especially on the old anodized Campy Omega rims.

[oldpotatoe]

Hmm...Interesting rim option...but...looks like R90s cost more than HED C2...little less than HED Plus.

-Mark in St. Louis

Seems like HED is in the same boat as other bike stuff when it comes to pricing. I can get HED rims for about $75-$99..about the same as 'retail' on the interweb..