OT: Cars that you wish you didn't have...

[batman1425]

Slight variation of the other thread rolling, what's the biggest POS that you had the unfortunate privilege of owning?

[JasonF]

1. 2005 911: lemoned
2. 2012 Range Rover (they always say your first RR will be your last). Here's the last time I saw the POS in its natural habitat: on the back of a flatbed.

Should've stuck with Hondas

[stackie]

2. 2012 Range Rover (they always say your first RR will be your last). Here's the last time I saw the POS in its natural habitat: on the back of a flatbed.


I love it... Natural habitat. Thanks for the laugh!

Jon

[batman1425]

Range Rover - never known for their reliability - but every Brit I've ever met sings their praises like they are the key to automotive salvation. Don't get it.

[likebikes]

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=174630 ;)

[dave thompson]

My biggest POS? I bought a brand new E-Type Jaguar in late 63. I sold it in late 64 with 3000 miles on the clock. The best looking car ever built, an absolute babe magnet (I was young, single and living in Hawaii) but it literally spent more than half its life in the shop fixing a myriad of warranty issues.

[Elefantino]

1977 Ford Granada.

Thought an adult car would make me, a college sophomore, look cool. Unfortunately the quality control in Dearborn at the time was about three fingers shy of a fist and it spent more time idle.

I sold it to my grandmother. Nice guy.

http://www.americangranada.com/owners/gregs_77_granada-2.jpg

[Tickdoc]

1. 2005 911: lemoned
2. 2012 Range Rover (they always say your first RR will be your last). Here's the last time I saw the POS in its natural habitat: on the back of a flatbed.

Should've stuck with Hondas

Been there, done that. Mine was a 2008 lr3.

Off warranty items:

front windshield- $1300.00
Air shock- $ 850.00
Transfer case- $ 6500.00

I was warned, but it sucked me in anyway.

Fool me once, shame on me.

[AngryScientist]

Transfer case- $ 6500.00


ouch.

i dont think i would ever pay that much out of pocket for a car repair. that is insane.

[cinema]

we have a '13 LR4 that is our daily driver. it does 2k miles a month without a hiccup. are we headed for a world of pain?

[ltwtsculler91]

we have a '13 LR4 that is our daily driver. it does 2k miles a month without a hiccup. are we headed for a world of pain?

I put 155k on a Land Rover Discovery with no major issues other than head gaskets at around 90k which was a known issue with that motor.

Rovers tend to hold up if you follow the maintenance by the book and don't let little issues become big ones

[JasonF]

I put 155k on a Land Rover Discovery with no major issues other than head gaskets at around 90k which was a known issue with that motor.

Rovers tend to hold up if you follow the maintenance by the book and don't let little issues become big ones

Ironically, I had a RR Sport Supercharged that went 40k trouble free miles. Dopey me traded it in for its big brother and then all hell broke loose.

[dancinkozmo]

1988 vw fox...horn used to go off whenever i made a right turn...was pissing off pedestrians so i ended up having to pull the relay so i had no horn
clutch cable broke, wiper motor broke, exhaust rusted out, brake rotors warped, 2 starter motors ...all in in two yrs of ownership.
my first and last vw product

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/1277/3961/3191980002_large.jpg

[Tickdoc]

we have a '13 LR4 that is our daily driver. it does 2k miles a month without a hiccup. are we headed for a world of pain?

It's a great car... Big but not too big, easy to see out of, comfy. It would be a great long trip car except for the gas mileage.

Just don't keep it without a warranty.

[Tickdoc]

ouch.

i dont think i would ever pay that much out of pocket for a car repair. that is insane.

I didn't. I found a used one off eBay for $600.00 and paid my cousin to install it, then promptly sold it :-P

[christian]

I had a W124-chassis E500. The Porsche-Mercedes combo. It wasn't a lemon, but you couldn't drive past a Mercedes dealership without spending $1000. Was lovely on the highway, but when I sold it (for a profit!) and bought an Odyssey and stopped thinking about road cars altogether, it was the best day of my life.

I'm a no-enthusiast-car guy now and love it that way. Or as I said to my wife, for my mid-life crisis, I got a $400,000 rally car. Thank god someone else paid for it.

[Dirtdiggler]

Love this saying : Range Rover will get you there, but a Land Cruiser will bring you back.
Cars : lets see 2007 MB C230 Sport, beauty of a car, but transmission ''plate" went out, known issue and traded it in before that happened, also it would lunge at stops (computer reflash), pulley squeaked, just stupid stuff, you figured MB would have sorted these out. Oh and the CPS (crankshaft position sensor).
04 Audi A4, see a pattern here... German cars.. never again.

[JasonF]

I had a W124-chassis E500. The Porsche-Mercedes combo. It wasn't a lemon, but you couldn't drive past a Mercedes dealership without spending $1000. Was lovely on the highway, but when I sold it (for a profit!) and bought an Odyssey and stopped thinking about road cars altogether, it was the best day of my life..

That model E500 always intrigued me. Pricing is very strong for them these days.

[kitsnob]

we have a '13 LR4 that is our daily driver. it does 2k miles a month without a hiccup. are we headed for a world of pain?

In the biz, on the German side.
IF you have an extended warranty or service contract then NO worries HOWEVER, IF you own it, you should have some sort of coverage. You wouldn't go without health insurance would you? An extended warranty or service contract is like health insurance for your automobile.
RR are hard to find an insurance company that will write a policy due to their past history (I spent 2.5 years working for a West Side Rover dealer in So Cal) - not a pretty sight if YOUR paying for it!
Once Ford got involved the quality increased but they still had/have their issues. Beautiful cars to look at and nice to drive - very comfortable BUT ...
Remember, Lucas Electrics? There is a reason they called him the "Prince of Darkness" and British cars don't leak oil - they simply inhibit rust!

Remember ... LEASE German/British/Italian & BUY Japanese

[christian]

That model E500 always intrigued me. Pricing is very strong for them these days.Yeah, I timed the depreciation trough on that one. Bought for $11,500, sold for $16,500. Mine is probably worth $20 now, but I'm glad to be rid of it. Great car though.

http://www.christianedstrom.com/e500/DSC_0685_small.JPG

[makoti]

I will not subject anyone to a picture. A Monza. We had a Monza. The one made famous by the Tubes. What a load of junk.

[AngryScientist]

i consider myself fortunate to say i've never actually owned a bad car. they've all had their quirks, but all been solid cars over the years.

i do rent cars for work pretty often, and that's another story all together.

in my experienced opinion, Chrysler and Chevrolet should fire every single person who has anything to do with their mid range sedans right now. has anyone ever driven a chevy malibu, or a chrystler 200? what absolute pieces of garbage. every piece of them feels like poorly appointed plastic junk.

dont even get me started on this trainwreck feature:

http://media.caranddriver.com/images/14q1/581756/2015-chrysler-200-shift-knob-photo-584221-s-1280x782.jpg

[tuscanyswe]

I had a W124-chassis E500. The Porsche-Mercedes combo. It wasn't a lemon, but you couldn't drive past a Mercedes dealership without spending $1000. Was lovely on the highway, but when I sold it (for a profit!) and bought an Odyssey and stopped thinking about road cars altogether, it was the best day of my life.

I'm a no-enthusiast-car guy now and love it that way. Or as I said to my wife, for my mid-life crisis, I got a $400,000 rally car. Thank god someone else paid for it.


I like those mercs. Nice looking cars.
Is 400k a realistic number for a top rally car? How long before one has changed the entire car :)?

[jchasse]

1. 2005 911: lemoned


I've been sporadically thinking about wading back into the 911 pool. Care to share any of the story with yours?

[ceolwulf]

You guys are making me think the '97 Infiniti Q45 I bought on eBay sight unseen for $5k was a sound fiscal decision. (Spoilers: it wasn't)

Edit to add picture. This was a real love hate relationship.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160331/13ebc990c794f69bf8e4bf2b652518f7.jpg

[christian]

I like those mercs. Nice looking cars.
Is 400k a realistic number for a top rally car? How long before one has changed the entire car :)?

As far as I know, the stock Subaru Impreza pieces on our rally car are limited to the windshield wiper motor. Or some such. Literally.

[tuscanyswe]

Haha yeah thats pretty amazing.

[William]

It ran great when it was running. Burned through a number of water pumps in this thing. One of the only times we sprung for an extended warranty...that paid for itself in spent water pumps. To be fair, we drove it across country with no issues but man did it love to eat them juicy water pumps the first year or two. It still got through a lot but was not sad to see it go.







William

[cinema]

In the biz, on the German side.
IF you have an extended warranty or service contract then NO worries HOWEVER, IF you own it, you should have some sort of coverage. You wouldn't go without health insurance would you? An extended warranty or service contract is like health insurance for your automobile.
RR are hard to find an insurance company that will write a policy due to their past history (I spent 2.5 years working for a West Side Rover dealer in So Cal) - not a pretty sight if YOUR paying for it!
Once Ford got involved the quality increased but they still had/have their issues. Beautiful cars to look at and nice to drive - very comfortable BUT ...
Remember, Lucas Electrics? There is a reason they called him the "Prince of Darkness" and British cars don't leak oil - they simply inhibit rust!

Remember ... LEASE German/British/Italian & BUY Japanese

yes totally, the lady liked the car. would not have been my first choice. it's a great road trip car for when we drive up the coast. my daily is '07 prius bought and paid for. the lr4 seemed like, finally a reasonable rover because ford got involved if i recall correctly. it is a ford motor almost 100% sure but i've read maybe jaguar. and that year it was a v8, they have gone to v6 now.

[jlyon]

I lusted after the Z28 for months before I finally got one. The 1st to fourth skip shift feature was annoying but the car was very fast and smoked the mustangs at the autocross. But it just took about 15 months before it really started to fall apart.

I traded it on a nice Toyota Avalon (as a 28 year old I must have been the youngest Avalon owner in the world) and was much happier.

[pjm]

It ran great when it was running. Burned through a number of water pumps in this thing. One of the only times we sprung for an extended warranty...that paid for itself in spent water pumps. To be fair, we drove it across country with no issues but man did it love to eat them juicy water pumps the first year or two. It still got through a lot but was not sad to see it go.







William
I did like the look of the Intrepid when it first came out. Cab forward!

[GregL]

Had this beauty back in the mid-80's. College transportation that lasted for a year post-graduation while I saved $$ for a new car. When the cost to get it to pass inspection surpassed the value of the car, I donated it to a Job Corps center.

- Greg

[buldogge]

Right now?

1) 2011 VW Jetta Tdi Sportwagen.

:help:

-Mark in St. Louis

I could stand to sell my no longer used '92 BMW 325is SCCA ITS car as well...but I like that car.

[Bob Ross]

what's the biggest POS that you had the unfortunate privilege of owning?

In 1987 when I was 26 years old my great aunt died and the estate bequeathed to me her 1984 Ford Tempo with less than 16,000 miles on it.

Free car, how bad could it be, right?

Well...the only "Tempo" this Ford could do was Lento
It was as if it had a built-in governor locked down at 54mph.
Also, the radio didn't work.

In fairness, the 2nd-hand 1974 Toyota Celica that I bought for $400 ~5 years earlier was probably a bigger hunk of schidt. But the disparity between that Ford's outward appearance and actual performance was so great that it always registered as the most disappointing crappy car I ever owned. When some drunk kids ran a red light and t-boned me, totalling the Ford, I almost gave a prayer of thanks.








Actually, now that I think about it, the 1963 Chevy Greenbriar that I bought for $150 in 1983 was a much bigger POS. But the stories about driving to gigs in that van were infinitely more epic, so it holds a fonder place in my memories.

[oldpotatoe]

Overheated from day one. Fix It Again Tony indeed!

[kitsnob]

Overheated from day one. Fix It Again Tony indeed!

FORD - Found On Road Dead
Fix Or Repair Daily
First On Race Day

BMW - Bring More Wrenches
Buy My Wife
Backwards - Wish (it was a) Mercedes Benz

SATURN - Same American Trash Under Revised Name

[JasonF]

I've been sporadically thinking about wading back into the 911 pool. Care to share any of the story with yours?

Sure. The dash would light up like a Christmas tree with all the warning lights, and then a final ominous message to "return to workshop." The car would then go into limp mode (only 1 bank of cylinders). Happened at least 6 times and neither the local dealer nor the regional techs could figure it out.

The final insult was when I got a call from my mom that dad just had a stroke and was nearing the end of a long and grueling battle with lung cancer. I had to rush back to CT (2.5 hours away) to say my goodbyes and the 'friggin car completely had the same problem, days after the regional tech promised that it had been fixed. I called the dealership FREAKING OUT and to their credit, the service manager was completely awesome. They didn't have a loaner available so he grabbed a new Cayenne they were planning to sell, handed me the keys, and said keep it for as long as needed.

Since the service manager was so reasonable, I warned him and the regional tech that I intended to invoke my rights under NJ's lemon laws. They asked to buy it back so it wouldn't be titled as a lemon and gave me a little cash for my troubles. So it wasn't technically lemoned but I urge anyone, as kitsnob said earlier, never to own a German car outside warranty.

I owned a couple air-cooled 911's that were generally reliable and a new Cayman S that was so-so. If you're thinking about a water-cooled 911, research each generation and make sure you don't end up with IMS or rear main seal issues. I always thought that was limited to 996 911's (99-04) but know someone with a 997 with recurring rear main seal issues.

[Dead Man]

um.. every car I've ever owned, and own currently

EDIT - your car is nicer than mine, but I am faster than you on bike. :P

[CNY rider]

I'm pretty pissed off about our Sienna minivan right now.
Both power slider rear doors have snapped their cables. So now they are manual doors.
$1600 a piece to repair.
Our van is a 2010.
Toyota has a service bulletin out for 2006-2009 or so, stating the dealer will repair/replace as this is a known issue with these vehicles.
But not 2010 despite the fact that no changes were made to the door system until the 2011 model year.
I have contacted them in writing. They ignore and deny with the best I've ever seen.
I'm never buying another Toyota so long as I live.

[kitsnob]

If you're thinking about a water-cooled 911, research each generation and make sure you don't end up with IMS or rear main seal issues. I always thought that was limited to 996 911's (99-04) but know someone with a 997 with recurring rear main seal issues.

I have a joke around the shop and with my techs that the rear main seal on every MB leaks the day it leaves the factory!

[kitsnob]

I'm pretty pissed off about our Sienna minivan right now.
Both power slider rear doors have snapped their cables. So now they are manual doors.
$1600 a piece to repair.
Our van is a 2010.
Toyota has a service bulletin out for 2006-2009 or so, stating the dealer will repair/replace as this is a known issue with these vehicles.
But not 2010 despite the fact that no changes were made to the door system until the 2011 model year.
I have contacted them in writing. They ignore and deny with the best I've ever seen.
I'm never buying another Toyota so long as I live.

A little inside industry tip/question ...
Have you shown "loyalty" to your local dealer? That is, do you regularly service there, "buy" the recommendations, given good survey/feedback scores, and generally let the dealer routinely service the car? OR have you shown "loyalty" to Toyota? Multiple Toyo/Lexus products over the years? Does the car have under 100K?
If so, you might nicely ask the service manager for some "Goodwill Assistance" - They might go 50/50 or offer a % of the repair. If it's out of warranty they probably won't cover it 100% but they might make it easier to swallow ... Just an idea ....

[Cat3roadracer]

Right now?

1) 2011 VW Jetta Tdi Sportwagen.

:help:

-Mark in St. Louis

I could stand to sell my no longer used '92 BMW 325is SCCA ITS car as well...but I like that car.


Knew that was coming.

[CaptStash]

I bought a used Ford F250 for cheap and got what I paid for. It is the only vehicle that I have owned for less than a year. I unloaded the F250 with a worn out engine and bought my Silverado. Never looked back. Four vehicles in 38 years of car ownership. including one crappy truck. Not so bad.

CaptStash....

1974 Mercury Capri 1978-1987
1985 Merkur XrfTi 1985-2002
1989 Frod F-250 2002-2003
2003 Silverado 1500 2003 to now (89,000 miles - still smells new!)

[rounder]

Renault Dauphine (beep beep, BEEP BEEP).

It was not my car (it was my father's) when I was learning to drive. First time out on a date, the engine wiring caught fire while stopped at a red light. The thing had a place where you could put a crank in to manually start the motor, in case the starter did not work.

[Birddog]

Renault Dauphine (beep beep, BEEP BEEP).

It was not my car (it was my father's) when I was learning to drive. First time out on a date, the engine wiring caught fire while stopped at a red light. The thing had a place where you could put a crank in to manually start the motor, in case the starter did not work.

IIRC, they also liked to rollover and play dead.
And if that wasn't good enough, Renault saw fit to introduce "Le Car" to the North American market.

[Birddog]

'85 Jeep Cherokee with the 2.8 V6. Worst engine ever. Rebuilt it twice as the intake manifold would fail and "milkshake" the engine. After the third time I scrapped it out. It was a hybrid in that it was made with some AMC, GM, Peugeot and I think Mopar parts. The Tail light assy had both Metric and SAE fasteners, what a POS!

[YesNdeed]

1988 vw fox...horn used to go off whenever i made a right turn...was pissing off pedestrians so i ended up having to pull the relay so i had no horn
clutch cable broke, wiper motor broke, exhaust rusted out, brake rotors warped, 2 starter motors ...all in in two yrs of ownership.
my first and last vw product

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_images/1/1277/3961/3191980002_large.jpg

The horn bit is a pretty hilarious VW story. I had a 92' Fox. Bought it from my at the time roommate that had absolutely no luck with it, getting repairs all the time. He signed it over to me for the cost a new ignition, about $250, if I recall. I drove it for two years without a problem. That was my second of 3 VW's, now I'm now on my second Audi. I firmly believe that VWs choose their owners, not the other way around.

[Gummee]

Even my bad cars had things about em I loved. The TR7 spent more time in the barn/garage than on the road.

The Midget had a crap electrical system, but ran like a top.

The Volvo 142 was slower'n molassas in Jan, but was the best car I've ever driven in the snow. That thing was built like a tank: not one, but THREE hoops around the driveshaft 'just in case.'

I inherited my ex's Sentra. Ran like a top, didn't need repairs, coulda been cool IF it had the SE-R engine and a manual, but it didn't. Small 4 and a slushbox = ugh.

M

[Chris]

My wife's current Infiniti JX35. I went against my ethos of never owning a first year new modem or model change. At 80,000 miles the struts and springs had to be replaced! Who knows what else is around the corner.

[fiamme red]

Overheated from day one. Fix It Again Tony indeed!http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?p=1402448#post1402448

:)

[Ken Robb]

1. 2005 911: lemoned
2. 2012 Range Rover (they always say your first RR will be your last). Here's the last time I saw the POS in its natural habitat: on the back of a flatbed.

Should've stuck with Hondas

Why is a Harley like a German Shepard? They leak all over everything and spend most of their time riding in the back of a truck. Ba-Da-Boom-Boom!

[YesNdeed]

1985 MB 190D 2.2 (non turbo) runaway diesel. That was the only real lemon I ever bought. At 232K, it didn't necessarily have a lot of miles, but wasn't properly maintained. I didn't have the time or resources to work on it, so I took a bath and got rid of it. Bought 190E 2.6 (gas), drove it for years and loved it. New England Winters sure were fun in that rear drive straight six.

[Ken Robb]

My wife's current Infiniti JX35. I went against my ethos of never owning a first year new modem or model change. At 80,000 miles the struts and springs had to be replaced! Who knows what else is around the corner.

80,000 miles is pretty long service for struts.

[Ken Robb]

1985 MB 190D 2.2 (non turbo) runaway diesel. That was the only real lemon I ever bought. At 232K, it didn't necessarily have a lot of miles, but wasn't properly maintained. I didn't have the time or resources to work on it, so I took a bath and got rid of it. Bought 190E 2.6 (gas), drove it for years and loved it. New England Winters sure were fun in that rear drive straight six.

You expected a car with 232,000 miles to be dependable??????????

[Ken Robb]

FORD - Found On Road Dead
Fix Or Repair Daily
First On Race Day

BMW - Bring More Wrenches
Buy My Wife
Backwards - Wish (it was a) Mercedes Benz

SATURN - Same American Trash Under Revised Name

In some neighborhoods BMW= Break My Window.:rolleyes:

[YesNdeed]

You expected a car with 232,000 miles to be dependable??????????

Sounds nuts, I know. These 80's MB diesels are known for their incredible mileage. But yes, my expectations were indeed put in check.

[Ken Robb]

I had a W124-chassis E500. The Porsche-Mercedes combo. It wasn't a lemon, but you couldn't drive past a Mercedes dealership without spending $1000. Was lovely on the highway, but when I sold it (for a profit!) and bought an Odyssey and stopped thinking about road cars altogether, it was the best day of my life.

I'm a no-enthusiast-car guy now and love it that way. Or as I said to my wife, for my mid-life crisis, I got a $400,000 rally car. Thank god someone else paid for it.

I was getting bored with my MINI and thinking about "interesting" cars to buy and the E500 was on my list since I'm kinda done with BMWs. Actually, the sensible thing would be to buy another Mazda 3 to match my wife's. It's a wonderful driving car with ZERO problem. 20,000 miles and 3 services totaling $150 +/-. Overall MPG 33 with high 30's on our rare highway trips.

[Ken Robb]

My biggest POS? I bought a brand new E-Type Jaguar in late 63. I sold it in late 64 with 3000 miles on the clock. The best looking car ever built, an absolute babe magnet (I was young, single and living in Hawaii) but it literally spent more than half its life in the shop fixing a myriad of warranty issues.

How in the world could a 20 year-old slacker pay for a new E-Type???

[Ken Robb]

I LEASED a new 1978 Audi 5000 when they first came out in late 1977. Dealers in San Diego wanted full retail if not more. LA Times had an ad to lease one from a dealer in Riverside,CA. and the 36 monthly payments plus the buyout total was the same as if I paid cash on the spot. It seems the Riverside dealer wanted more Porsches to sell but to get them they had to move more Audis and they had a local bank that wanted to move a lot of $$$ in a hurry, hence the sweet lease. 5 miles from the dealer the transmission quit shifting but it cured itself after 15 miles. At 5,000 miles the steering rack leaked fluid. The service manager apologized saying that Audi required them to re-seal the unit and that never solved the problem so I would have to come back again for a new steering rack after the "rebuilt" one leaked. At 17,000 miles the CV joints died. My lease was up when I had 35,000 miles on the car and the CV joints were making noise again. I traded it on a 1981 Toyota Cressida. :beer:

At 1,500 miles I started the Toyota and heard a horrible clanging. The dealer told me to drive it down but I demurred so it was towed in. It seems a hose clamp somehow got sucked through the intake system and lodged under and intake valve where it was pounded into my cylinder head.

I traded that for a 1985 Nissan Maxima Sport Edition. A poor man's BMW. After 2,000 miles and many complaints I got Nissan to warranty a new transmission that didn't grind on a 3-2 downshift. The Nissan was wrecked by a crazy driver in 1986. It was totaled, my woife needed surgery, but my daughter and I were OK. Well a few years later my knee surgeon discovered that my meniscus had been dislodged in the wreck but he was in there for a trim job anyway. :-)

[rounder]

I was getting bored with my MINI and thinking about "interesting" cars to buy and the E500 was on my list since I'm kinda done with BMWs. Actually, the sensible thing would be to buy another Mazda 3 to match my wife's. It's a wonderful driving car with ZERO problem. 20,000 miles and 3 services totaling $150 +/-. Overall MPG 33 with high 30's on our rare highway trips.

How can you be done with BMWs? When I first came here, you were teaching guys how to not put their BMWs into the fence or something like that.

My second A4 had 140,000 miles on it (first one also had 140,000 on it) and ended up buying another because it ran great and liked the way it looked. My wife now drives it. A different car next time just to see what else is out there.

[Bruce K]

Actually, now that the transmission issues are fixed, my wife likes her Chrysler 200 a lot.

Unfortunately, we spent a lot of down time and money on a lawyer trying to Lemon Law it for what turned out to be a poorly manufactured electrical connection for the computer that ran the tranny. It damn near got us killed on our summer road trip when the car shut off on the highway.

I don't like all the electronics and "safety features" (lane minder, parking assist, etc) that she insisted on having but when it runs right (now all the time), as it did on most of our 7500 road trip, it is a decent enough beast.

My PIA/POS car was a Buick Skyhawk. Cousin to the Monza pretty much says it all.

BK

[CNY rider]

A little inside industry tip/question ...
Have you shown "loyalty" to your local dealer? That is, do you regularly service there, "buy" the recommendations, given good survey/feedback scores, and generally let the dealer routinely service the car? OR have you shown "loyalty" to Toyota? Multiple Toyo/Lexus products over the years? Does the car have under 100K?
If so, you might nicely ask the service manager for some "Goodwill Assistance" - They might go 50/50 or offer a % of the repair. If it's out of warranty they probably won't cover it 100% but they might make it easier to swallow ... Just an idea ....

Yeah, not so much.
We use a local mechanic who does an excellent job. He's only 10 minutes away and I can drop my car off then easily ride my bike to work.
Toyota dealer 35 minutes away, far from work.
But I have no beef with the Toyota dealer. They explained the issue to us in a courteous and professional manner and gave us contact info for Toyota HQ. I don't think they owe us anything.
This is a corporate issue.

[christian]

I was getting bored with my MINI and thinking about "interesting" cars to buy and the E500 was on my list since I'm kinda done with BMWs.

Not going to dissuade you.

Pros:

Build quality like hewn out of a solid piece of steel
Gorgeous interior
The fender flares really set off the Bruno Sacco design of the W124. I think it is an incredibly good looking car.
32v flat-crank DOHC V8 sounds pretty darn sweet
It really likes to go fast on the highway
It has a motorized rear windowshade


Cons:

Because the four-speed auto is geared to hit redline at 155mph, it runs high RPM on the highway, which makes gas consumption a bit high. In the city, gas consumption is simply atrocious! (But what the hell, gas is basically free in this country.)
We've apparently learned a lot about window sealing since 1994. It's no Lexus LS400.
Putting a 5.0l V8 in the engine bay of a W124 is a packaging wonder. You will not want to go under the hood yourself.
Consumables are not cheap


My own view is that, if you can live without the fender flares (you, Ken, cannot), the E400 is 90% of the car at 25% of the price.

If I lived in San Diego, there's no way I'd be without a 1996-1998 post-1st facelift but M119-engined SL500. I love, love, love the R129 styling.

[dawgie]

First, let me say that I love my car. It is not a lemon. Nothing has ever gone wrong with it, and it's both economical and fun to drive. However, I am starting to regret that I bought it.

My car is a 2012 VW Golf 2.5, the version with the gasoline engine. Although it is not affected by the VW emission's scandal, I am totally disgusted by VW as a corporation and how they flaunted international environmental laws and lied to their customers. The resale value of my car and probably all VW's has been damaged by the scandal. I probably will never buy another VW. Before the scandal broke, I was already planning to purchase a TDI Sportwagen as soon as my Golf is paid off. I will probably go back to buying Hondas.

[RFC]

1977 Ford Granada.

Thought an adult car would make me, a college sophomore, look cool. Unfortunately the quality control in Dearborn at the time was about three fingers shy of a fist and it spent more time idle.

I sold it to my grandmother. Nice guy.

http://www.americangranada.com/owners/gregs_77_granada-2.jpg

LOL!!! I had a red one of those, "Christine." My parents gave it to me when I was in grad school. Actually, I have to give her credit for toughness. Did a number of 36 hour nonstop cross country drives with her. Late in her life, Christine blew a bunch of hoses from the pollution system while out in the Boonies. The only way to get her out was to find a back woods mechanic who bypassed the pollution controls. Think serious butt crack. Shortly thereafter had a friend sell her at the auto action for $245. Just enough to buy a Sony Betamax, another questionable commodity.

[RFC]

Love this saying : Range Rover will get you there, but a Land Cruiser will bring you back.
Cars : lets see 2007 MB C230 Sport, beauty of a car, but transmission ''plate" went out, known issue and traded it in before that happened, also it would lunge at stops (computer reflash), pulley squeaked, just stupid stuff, you figured MB would have sorted these out. Oh and the CPS (crankshaft position sensor).
04 Audi A4, see a pattern here... German cars.. never again.

My 1988 Land Cruiser was a monster and the best car I've had. About 18 years into her life she sacrificed herself to save a bunch of teenagers who got T-Boned by a driver going 45 mph in Mexico. My son was able to peel out the bodywork and get her back over the border.

[pjm]

LOL!!! I had a red one of those, "Christine." My parents gave it to me when I was in grad school. Actually, I have to give her credit for toughness. Did a number of 36 hour nonstop cross country drives with her. Late in her life, Christine blew a bunch of hoses from the pollution system while out in the Boonies. The only way to get her out was to find a back woods mechanic who bypassed the pollution controls. Think serious butt crack. Shortly thereafter had a friend sell her at the auto action for $245. Just enough to buy a Sony Betamax, another questionable commodity.

Still have a Betamax, practically new in the box. Weighs about 30 lbs. I wonder if its worth anything?

[Fatty]

First, let me say that I love my car. It is not a lemon. Nothing has ever gone wrong with it, and it's both economical and fun to drive. However, I am starting to regret that I bought it.

My car is a 2012 VW Golf 2.5, the version with the gasoline engine. Although it is not affected by the VW emission's scandal, I am totally disgusted by VW as a corporation and how they flaunted international environmental laws and lied to their customers. The resale value of my car and probably all VW's has been damaged by the scandal. I probably will never buy another VW. Before the scandal broke, I was already planning to purchase a TDI Sportwagen as soon as my Golf is paid off. I will probably go back to buying Hondas.

Scandal is nothing new for VW.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2008/jan/10/transport.volkswagen

[saab2000]

in my experienced opinion, Chrysler and Chevrolet should fire every single person who has anything to do with their mid range sedans right now. has anyone ever driven a chevy malibu, or a chrystler 200? what absolute pieces of garbage. every piece of them feels like poorly appointed plastic junk.



I haven't driven the Chrysler 200, but I did drive the predecessor and yes, it was extremely undesirable. The one I drove was soft and had a steering precision that made a Camry look dialed in and tight. In other words, it was awful.

That said, I never found anything wrong with the Malibu as an appliance. And I don't mean that in a bad way. Mid-range cars are appliances and like a refrigerator or microwave oven or air conditioner, we just want them to work as advertised and be reliable.

When I lived in Michigan I rented quite a number of cars and none really stands out good or bad but two I remember were the Chrysler (bad) and the previous generation Ford Fusion (good, much better than I was expecting it would be). I also rented a Malibu or two and never had reason to complain, though I would admit that the interior seemed less spacious than it ought to have given the size of the car.

But honestly, what is it about these that you find so awful? If it's the interior materials, that's a hard one to criticize. Some stuff seems 'premium' but causes no end of trouble.

My VW GTI has what is referred to as 'premium' materials. The headliner is delaminating and sagging. The radio buttons suck and stick when pressed. It's annoying as heck and has been since I bought the car. It's not a defect. It's a 'feature'.

A buddy of mine loves to tout the premium materials in his cars but he's bringing them in all the time and complaining about how the dealers don't share his level of obsession. And he's had plenty of trouble with premium brands. He's currently gushing about his new VW Touareg and talked about how when he looked at the Acura MDX it just felt like a Honda, as if that were an insult. Hondas are nice cars.

He's a funny guy because he gushes about his premium automobiles and rides Ultegra. We all know there's nothing wrong with Ultegra but it doesn't have the finish that he seems to crave with his cars. I am the opposite. I ride D/A and Record because I like the details and my cars just need to work. That said, I kind of want a Honda Pilot.

I don't see the issue with the US cars anymore. There was a day when they were junk but I don't see that anymore and haven't for quite a few years. I'd happily own a Chevy or Ford and would at least look at a Chrysler but probably would still avoid that brand.

[kitsnob]

Not going to dissuade you.

Pros:

Build quality like hewn out of a solid piece of steel
Gorgeous interior
The fender flares really set off the Bruno Sacco design of the W124. I think it is an incredibly good looking car.
32v flat-crank DOHC V8 sounds pretty darn sweet
It really likes to go fast on the highway
It has a motorized rear windowshade


Cons:

Because the four-speed auto is geared to hit redline at 155mph, it runs high RPM on the highway, which makes gas consumption a bit high. In the city, gas consumption is simply atrocious! (But what the hell, gas is basically free in this country.)
We've apparently learned a lot about window sealing since 1994. It's no Lexus LS400.
Putting a 5.0l V8 in the engine bay of a W124 is a packaging wonder. You will not want to go under the hood yourself.
Consumables are not cheap


My own view is that, if you can live without the fender flares (you, Ken, cannot), the E400 is 90% of the car at 25% of the price.

If I lived in San Diego, there's no way I'd be without a 1996-1998 post-1st facelift but M119-engined SL500. I love, love, love the R129 styling.

BOTH are what I call the $1,000 car.
Bring it over my driveway and the MINIMUM cost to leave is about a grand!!

[Ken Robb]

Why I am "pretty much through with BMWs": My first was a 1985 535i and it was SO much better than any other sedan for my needs/desires there was no question it was WORTH ot to me. My 1992 325i was better in every way. My 1998 M3 was faster and a bit better than my slightly modified 325i. My 2004 330i ZHP (Performance Package) was supposed to be the sedan just like the M3 coupe (no M3 sedan at the time) except for only 235HP. It felt like it had 200HP and I was always disappointed by its lack of low end torque. My 1998 M3 was rated at 240HP but it felt much more powerful than my ZHP. Of course it did show 221 HP at the rear wheels when totally stock so either I got a really good one or BMW was sandbagging on the rating.

Now there are so many cars that drive well and have all the performance we can use on the street I don't see a reason for ME to pay BMW prices and put up with run-flat tires and questionable re-sale values as more people become aware of how expensive they will be to repair/maintain once out of warranty.

As to the 500E I would probably get a kick out of driving one occasionally but I really wouldn't want to own one as my daily driver for all the reasons Christian listed. OTOH a limited production car like that may very well offset high maintenance costs through appreciation/collectable value..

[texbike]

I love, love, love the R129 styling.

Same here! They're very under-appreciated right now, but I honestly believe they will go down as one of Mercedes finest designs - ever. I'd love to find a manual trans 300, but they're a bit tough to scare up these days. However, a clean, silver/tan '97-'98 500 with monoblocks on it would be pretty sweet.

As for junk cars, I've had a number of them. Some by choice like the '69 Dodge Coronet 2 door that was purchased for $250. It had a 318 and an automatic, plenty of rust, and a passenger door that wouldn't quite shut or lock properly. It would swing open as you went around a corner. However, a bungee cord helped provide some amount of safety. It was our hoopty cruiser for a couple of months. We would spray paint it up before heading out for a night on the town. It was a known junker and accepted for what it was.

The two cars that were junkers and totally unacceptable as such were both BMWs: an e39 M5 and an e90 330i.

Both had a ridiculous number of issues and cost a fortune to maintain/repair them. It makes absolutely no sense for a modern car to have as many issues as the two of them had. We've had several Japanese cars over the years and not a single one of them has had an issue outside of expected wear and maintenance items. If the Japanese can do it, why can't the Germans?

Texbike

[Bob Ross]

We've had several Japanese cars over the years and not a single one of them has had an issue outside of expected wear and maintenance items. If the Japanese can do it, why can't the Germans?

I've long held the opinion -- and this is based on a crap-ton of reading Consumer Reports over many decades, as well as the occasional Car & Driver overview and a few other auto test/review/recommend type rags -- that unless you have an extremely specialized use for a car (racing, towing, transporting farm animals, off-roading, etc.) there's no practical nor defensible reason to ever buy anything other than a Honda or a Toyota.

[Rpoole8537]

Junk:
73 Vega GT- engine blew at 60k
84 BMW 325 - stayed in shop far too often
91 Ford Explorer - paint fell off and picked up a vibration at 60k that Ford would/could not fix.

Since 1997 - four Toyotas, all very reliable. I do wish my 97 4Runner had the Recaro bucket seats that were in the 84 BMW! I'd keep it for another 20 years.

[R3awak3n]

another vote for a Land Rover. 2005 Discovery. It was my wifes car before we met and before we got married and we still have it.

It has not been a bad car but I hate it. Drives like a tank, consumes way too much gas (not as much of a problem now but when gas was $4 it sucked) and when something brakes it costs an arm and a leg. Did I mention it drives like crap?

[ajhapps]

1986 Pontiac Grand Am (in 1996)

The car had about 85 hp when running fully tuned, but dropped down to about 40 hp with a blown head gasket. It also had peeling paint, the liner on the ceiling fell off, and the gas gauge was broken, so I had to put $5 of gas in every 3rd day to make sure I didn't run out (gas was cheaper then, and I was a broke high school kid).

That car was just junk. It cost more in repairs than I'd paid for it after about 3 months of ownership.

[martl]

The two cars that were junkers and totally unacceptable as such were both BMWs: an e39 M5 and an e90 330i.

Both had a ridiculous number of issues and cost a fortune to maintain/repair them. It makes absolutely no sense for a modern car to have as many issues as the two of them had. We've had several Japanese cars over the years and not a single one of them has had an issue outside of expected wear and maintenance items. If the Japanese can do it, why can't the Germans?

Texbike
The Japanese (most of them) aim at customers who want a reliable drive without much glamour (or performance). (mostly - i'm sure a Nissan Skyline is not much cheaper to run than a Porsche. Impreza STIs also cost a bit).
German engineers *could* do that, too (Skoda cars have a splendid reliability and are engineered by VW), but their market position is different. And as long as people in coutries with a 70mls speed limit spend extra money for the horsepower and the gadgets, who says they are wrong...

I myself live happily with my 16 year old Subaru Fozzie Turbo i bought for peanuts on the phone (rang up a mechanic to ask what to check for, he said "if it has a full sevice history and no rust - nothing, just buy it). It got sufficient performance and can even raise some eyebrows on the german Autobahn as no one expects a dented shoebox like this to dash away like a sqirrel on acid, it has a couple of airbags, brilliant brakes, one of the best crash test results ever, and just runs when i need it.

My colleague has an E270 and paid for a front brake job what i paid for full clutch replacement/new timing chain-job which requires half of the car to be torn apart, but what do i know :) All i know is that my buddy working as engineer at BMW bought a Mini Cooper S convertible for his annual bonus payment...


In the car market, a lot of people buy what they *want* instead of what they *need* :)