Unlimited Private Messages?

[weisan]

First off, please know that this is coming from someone who is a late adopter to cellphone, text messages, and social media...

so in the age of unlimited minutes and unlimited text messages, am I the only one who find myself keep having to prune and trim my PM messages in the inbox and outbox in order to meet the 200 limit?

Will pushing it to 500 even make a difference?

Or should I tell myself the same thing that I told my older kids who complain about their parental-restricted cellphone use:

"Get over it!" :banana:

[Ronsonic]

You just want everyone to think you're popular so they'll like you. :cool:


I'm guessing our beloved Paceline is operating on an older model of the intertubes where inconceivably vast data storage hadn't yet been invented by the world's intelligence agencies.

[batman1425]

For some reason - I read your post as Unlimited Private Massages... :beer:

[Keith A]

Weisan pal -- We discussed this at length recently and decided to stick with 200 for now. I still have an action to determine how this would affect our database. It's not just one account that would jump from 200 to 500 (or more), but it's nearly 18K member accounts that would receive this same increase -- and I don't know yet how this would impact our database size and/or performance.

[JAGI410]

200 is a ridiculous amount to keep. Clean your stuff out!

[Keith A]

BTW, you can download your PMs as XML, CSV or regular text. There is an option at the bottom of your PM list which will allow you to either download all your PM's or just the ones selected.

[wallymann]

200 is a ridiculous amount to keep. Clean your stuff out!

completely agree! why anyone needs to keep PMs more than 1 month old is beyond me.

it takes like 3 clicks to delete all your PMs > 1 month aged.

if the information exchange is important enough to keep for posterity, then use your personal email!!!

[Tickdoc]

I would love more storage. I'm not the one to ask though.

I've got over a hundred thousand in my msn inbox:help:

Most are just junk, but I love the fact that if I emailed you 10 yrs ago, I can see that email.

It used to come in handy when I bought and sold watches, and just kinda snowballed from there.

So yeah, I could use some more space.:)

[seanile]

Make it a purchasable option, pay for the capacity increase like dropbox.

[kramnnim]

I just keep the email notifications...

[thwart]

BTW, you can download your PMs as XML, CSV or regular text. There is an option at the bottom of your PM list which will allow you to either download all your PM's or just the ones selected.

This. Whenever I get the 90% warning I just download ones I want to keep to my HD and then delete from the Forum.

[weisan]

It's my bad.

[makoti]

It's my bad.

Then I'm bad, too. I like to keep my messages, to refer to later. I only keep some of them, but it seems I'm always at 93%...

[tuscanyswe]

Then I'm bad, too. I like to keep my messages, to refer to later. I only keep some of them, but it seems I'm always at 93%...

+1

Id be happy to pay for an upgraded pm box.
And not just another 50 pms please, enough so i can just keep em there.

[Cicli]

Who lives in the past?
Dump them.

[Keith A]

I will look into the database impact and let you guys know what I find. If I do anything, it will most be to double the current storage for those accounts that meet the minimum for posting in the classified section (30 days and 30 posts).

[vqdriver]

Remember when it was 100?
We asked, and then it went to 200 fairly soon after the paceline was born from the Serotta forum. It wasn't the end of the world and it really helped those who like to keep their messages, myself included.

Give us an option to buy storage and I'm down for that.

[Keith A]

Remember when it was 100?
We asked, and then it went to 200 fairly soon after the paceline was born from the Serotta forum. It wasn't the end of the world and it really helped those who like to keep their messages, myself included.

Give us an option to buy storage and I'm down for that.The pay for storage is certainly an option, I just need to check into how to handle this with vBulletin. I know there is this feature, just haven't used it before.

[bcroslin]

I was fairly new to forum messages when I joined up here and kept running out of room every few weeks until I realized my sent messages were being archived. Probably a no-brainer for others but it didn't even occur to me so I now regularly dump the sent folder and have no issues.

[Keith A]

I was fairly new to forum messages when I joined up here and kept running out of room every few weeks until I realized my sent messages were being archived. Probably a no-brainer for others but it didn't even occur to me so I now regularly dump the sent folder and have no issues.Good point...thanks for the reminder.

[fuzzalow]

Not a fan of private messaging and do not recognize the need for increased storage per account.

I say this because I do not wish to burden the forum with tech related issues and tech overhead for communications that are easily taken off-Vbulletin into any e-mail of your choice. That's only as far as the tech side goes because I recognize storage and bandwidth is cheap but the overhead in CPU cycles with an increasing membership may not be so simple.

On the social chemistry side of things, I dislike PMs for the simple reason that anything I have to say to any forum member I can say openly because I do not fear being accountable for my own actions. And so should everyone else. Mutual respect even in differences of opinion.

BTW and FWIW, I've received PMs from the fan-boi crowd that they would never have the guts to post openly. Damn cowards.

Frankly, I view the persistent calls for a 'like' button in the same light. It fosters group-think and IMO encourages people not to evaluate content on its merits but rather the vacuousness in following a crowd or a few leaders. A forum not far away does this, look who racks up the most numbers...

See, I always find a way to give you the long answer. :rolleyes:

[weisan]

See, I always find a way to give you the long answer. :rolleyes:

I appreciate your long, thoughtful response, fuzz pal.

[dustyrider]

Folks that communicate outside of threads aren't cowards. People who want to keep their private messages on the forum aren't living in the past. Humans like options. At least that's what we're told when someone brings up a dislike for discs or cost of the latest silca.

Why can't forum members have the option to pay for and use more private message storage? Seems like a great way to generate revenue if it doesn't cost more than it generates.

[simonov]

Not a fan of private messaging and do not recognize the need for increased storage per account.

I say this because I do not wish to burden the forum with tech related issues and tech overhead for communications that are easily taken off-Vbulletin into any e-mail of your choice. That's only as far as the tech side goes because I recognize storage and bandwidth is cheap but the overhead in CPU cycles with an increasing membership may not be so simple.

On the social chemistry side of things, I dislike PMs for the simple reason that anything I have to say to any forum member I can say openly because I do not fear being accountable for my own actions. And so should everyone else. Mutual respect even in differences of opinion.

BTW and FWIW, I've received PMs from the fan-boi crowd that they would never have the guts to post openly. Damn cowards.

Frankly, I view the persistent calls for a 'like' button in the same light. It fosters group-think and IMO encourages people not to evaluate content on its merits but rather the vacuousness in following a crowd or a few leaders. A forum not far away does this, look who racks up the most numbers...

See, I always find a way to give you the long answer. :rolleyes:

In the spirit of open communication and differences of opinion, I couldn't disagree more. PMs allow discourse between forum members who don't wish to communicate in a more personal email account on topics that would be utterly boring for the rest of the forum, such as classifieds/for sale questions, and in situations where public discourse would continue to fuel a fire but a PM will allow for some discretion. PMs aren't about accountability of action. And as a side note, it's hard to take seriously your assertion of mutual respect for differing opinions when you call people cowards or "fan-bois" for contacting you out of the public eye. Lastly, just because you don't think the Paceline shouldn't have PMs doesn't mean the forum shouldn't. Clearly many people find them valuable.

Oh, and on the topic of likes, I find them to be a very effective way of indicating agreement or appreciation without cluttering threads with post after post of "great!", "want!" or "[x] Like." I'm not quite sure how they create groupthink.

As for the issue with how many PMs to allow, it's possible to have VBulletin (at least some versions) send emails when a PM comes in. For anyone interested in archiving their messages, this is a good way to do so without putting a burden on the Admins to make and manage more space.

[fuzzalow]

I appreciate your long, thoughtful response, fuzz pal.

Thanks weisan-pal. I am glad you did not take exception to my reply.

I did not wish for anyone to misinterprete my negative response as of somehow to impugn your intentions in asking it. Your motives and intentions for the well being of this forum are beyond reproach.

[Satellite]

+1 for double PM storage.

[FlashUNC]

Just clean your inboxes out people. It ain't hard.

[Satellite]

Just clean your inboxes out people. It ain't hard.

It ain't that hard to raise the limit either.

[Keith A]

It ain't that hard to raise the limit either.True, but I'd like to see how much space we are currently using and I'm having a problem getting that data.

[Peter B]

I generally use PMs for initial contact and concise follow-up when buying/selling on the classifieds. Convenient and appropriate in my view. Complex or extensive dialog goes to email or telephone. I just add my comments to the top of the ongoing exchange and appreciate when the other party does too. Benefits are two-fold; it keeps the entire discussion in context and I can clear all sent/received messages but the last for archives. Takes minimal effort and I haven't had trouble with running out of space.

[oldpotatoe]

It ain't that hard to raise the limit either.

But it costs somebody something, doesn't it?

I say just empty the things. We get a really nice prompt when they are 90% full. IMHO-of course.

[AngryScientist]

It ain't that hard to raise the limit either.

that's a rather rude comment, don't you think Satellite?

Folks - let's remember what an amazing resource we have here in this forum, and it's all free at the moment. Also remember that anything that has to be "done" here is accomplished through volunteer hours, and mainly Keith doing the technical lifting.

Just a gentle reminder, it's not like we have a paid IT department here.



http://www.shop.campbellssot.com/images/1393712276140352703859.jpeg

[Satellite]

that's a rather rude comment, don't you think Satellite?

This comment was directed at FlashUNC. No disrespect intended towards Keith A. I understand Keith A. Doing his due diligence and risk vs reward analysis.

I keep my PMs cleaned out I go in periodically and delete all but the last recieved and sent PM by doing that it saves all the correspondence between the parties. However Iam now at the 90% even by doing that method. Perhaps if it was setup with KB/MB space limitation instead of an absolute number of PMs.

Whatever path is decided I will follow be because this is a free service, but I feel like we are all stake holders and my vote is for more PM storage. I was a member of the Serotta forum and I remember when we were limited to 100 PMs sent/recieved total that was even worse.

I like the fact that the General Discussion threads stay forever because there is so much knowledge. Do we need to keep so much Classified data? I understand keeping 1-5 years or so but it seems like so much space could be freed up there and given to the PM storage where most of us take the particulars of a classified sale offline private between the seller/buyer.

Just my thoughts again no disrespect to Keith.

Satellite

[FlashUNC]

The counter argument: This isn't Gmail.

I don't see why we should sacrifice Keith's potential sanity -- assuming any is left -- or public threads, regardless of their subforum, for private correspondence.

There's already avenues to conduct those private conversations, and there are several options for downloading and storing your PMs in perpetuity.

Killing threads for private chatter? Madness.

[Climb01742]

Perhaps 99% of us enjoy the Paceline without having to lift a finger or pay a cent. Kind of a sweet deal, yes? Is cleaning out some portion of our PM in/outboxes too much to ask given how free our ride is?

[rugbysecondrow]

I just keep the email notifications...

exactly.

[tuscanyswe]

Perhaps 99% of us enjoy the Paceline without having to lift a finger or pay a cent. Kind of a sweet deal, yes? Is cleaning out some portion of our PM in/outboxes too much to ask given how free our ride is?

No its not.

But why can't we buy extra storage if its beneficial for the site and the community? Providing that actually is a possibility.

[rugbysecondrow]

No its not.

But why can't we buy extra storage if its beneficial for the site and the community? Providing that actually is a possibility.

Threads: 178,930, Posts: 1,925,336, Members: 17,616

Almost 18,000 members. Who wants to volunteer to manage each individuals paid PM account?

Honestly, it is 200 PMs...that is a lot. I can't think of why you would need more than 200, unless you were really flipping a lot of gear. If that is the case, set it so you get an email notification with the PM message as well, viola.

[dzxc]

I don't see anything wrong with wanting to make a community better, even if that community is free to join/participate in. I'm dismayed by the attacks I'm seeing on people under the guise of "shouldn't you be happy with what you have, its free, you're lucky to even get what you're given!" Apparently someone pointing out (rightly, I might add) that from a technical perspective raising the limit is easy is "rude"? That seems odd...

I'm not going to make judgments on what others do with their PMs or whether they "need" more space. If they say they do or it would make their lives easier, I'll take their word for it and give them kudos for trying to make the forum a better place.

[Climb01742]

No its not.

But why can't we buy extra storage if its beneficial for the site and the community? Providing that actually is a possibility.

How is it_really_beneficial? By making the site more complex (thus probably less stable technically), requiring more admin (asking volunteers to give even more of_their_time), and taking a further step toward making a community into a business?

But hey, different folks can see this issue different ways.

[rugbysecondrow]

I don't see anything wrong with wanting to make a community better, even if that community is free to join/participate in. I'm dismayed by the attacks I'm seeing on people under the guise of "shouldn't you be happy with what you have, its free, you're lucky to even get what you're given!" Apparently someone pointing out (rightly, I might add) that from a technical perspective raising the limit is easy is "rude"? That seems odd...

I'm not going to make judgments on what others do with their PMs or whether they "need" more space. If they say they do or it would make their lives easier, I'll take their word for it and give them kudos for trying to make the forum a better place.

This is a discussion my man, no attacks are being made.

This is the contradiction, making life easier for me is not the same as making the community better. One has nothing to do with the other.

Regardless of what number the PM is capped at (lets say 500), the problem isn't the quantity of PMs, it is individual management of PMs. Eventually, the same individuals struggling with 200 are going to struggle with 500. Just like those who struggled with 100 messages probably now struggle with 200 messages.

The gist, there are 2+ ways already proposed which will help the individual manage their own messages and store records. Why should we not rely on already present methods but instead put the onus on the volunteer facilitators of the forum to solve this problem for us?

[tuscanyswe]

Threads: 178,930, Posts: 1,925,336, Members: 17,616

Almost 18,000 members. Who wants to volunteer to manage each individuals paid PM account?

Honestly, it is 200 PMs...that is a lot. I can't think of why you would need more than 200, unless you were really flipping a lot of gear. If that is the case, set it so you get an email notification with the PM message as well, viola.

Exactly so its 18000 members. I don't know how much work it is to increase capacity for a member or to make it automatic upon received cash or something similar but its something that is done once for each member or if automatic even better.

Lets say we all paid 20$? thats 18000 x 20 = 360000$
My gut feeling says that should be enough to cover the expense.
So everyone don't want this, thats fine but i imagine the formula would be beneficial even if a lot less participants.

Would i mind if Keith A got paid for doing it? Not one bit its even better that way. If he can't or don't want to thats another story but thats not what we are discussing as far as i have understood.

Not wanting more pms for the sake that oneself does not need it or can't c the upside to it for others who do want an increased amount seem selfish imo providing it can be done and be beneficial for all involved.

Would be like me saying i don't want shimano in the classifieds :D (okay maybe not but you get my drift)

[makoti]

Threads: 178,930, Posts: 1,925,336, Members: 17,616

Almost 18,000 members. Who wants to volunteer to manage each individuals paid PM account?

Very good & clear point. Would I be willing to pay to get more space for PM's? Sure. Would I be willing to expect someone to give up more of their time tracking my payments, due dates, etc (not to mention having my CC info sitting in yet ANOTHER server) so I can keep a few more messages? No, I don't think so. I'm at 94% right now. I'll just delete some stuff again

[Climb01742]

Perhaps a fair next step would be to have Keith look into this and see what the real cost/benefit analysis is. Right now, we're (myself included) dealing mostly in conjecture.

I would, though, raise a question: if we were going to ask our admin team to give more of their time and effort to implement a site change, would this be top of the list? Are there other tweaks that might create a better user experience for more users? Just a question.

[fuzzalow]

There are unintended consequences for policy changes made into any social environment. And that is how I view this topic. To simply view this as a desire for more convenience in private chatter is a shortsighted and self serving goal. It is not about "you". It is about the maintenance and support in a community which is a far more tenuous and fragile commodity.

1) The value and attraction of this forum is built on the quality of its membership and the quality of the public discussions that occur within its space. The creation of a support structure that supports greater PM chatter is, by definition, antithetical to the broader goals and intentions of a robust, civil and open forum. You got something interesting to say? Well then let's us all in on it!

2) Retention of a greater number of PM for classified ad chatter recording is a poor reason and an excuse. This forum exists for the chemistry of its membership and the quality of its content. This forum does not exist as a posting board for buy-sell activity - that resource is a byproduct from the quality of its membership.
Virtually every sale encompasses unique circumstances that effect the items price - all that old pricing data is useless. Face it, anybody screwing around with endless back 'n forth PMs about an item rarely buys squat - they are just wasting time kicking tires or hoping to somehow negotiate the price down to free. Need pricing data? Try e-bay.

3) Keeping stuff "above board" helps keep out the riff-raff. As this forum grows there will always be an element of stupidity that is attracted to something good and is part of every crowd. Some of this crowd may delight in mayhem. Offering that kind of member a robust PM back-channel inside the forum itself is not constructive. This kind of member cannot exist out in the open and should not be permitted to exist underground.

[Gsinill]

Email notification vs. PM, maybe that explains why I'd prefer to keep more PMs as well.

http://s23.postimg.org/bf5k3drxn/PM_vs_email.png

BTW, the PMs also include the sender/recipient which I photoshopped out for privacy reasons.

@Keith: Would it be possible to change the email notification setup to include PM specific details as described here: http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/forum/vbulletin-legacy-versions-products/legacy-vbulletin-versions/vbulletin-3-7-questions-problems-and-troubleshooting/279257-include-topic-in-pm-email-notification-subject?

As someone that has been bitchin' about the 200 PM limit for quite some time, I would be totally fine with the email notification if it told me the sender/recipient and subject of the PM instead of the generic email header now.

Side note: I find it interesting that there is such a heated debate about what everybody's preference should be "ATYO".
You like it one way, I like it the other...:beer:

[tuscanyswe]

There are unintended consequences for policy changes made into any social environment. And that is how I view this topic. To simply view this as a desire for more convenience in private chatter is a shortsighted and self serving goal. It is not about "you". It is about the maintenance and support in a community which is a far more tenuous and fragile commodity.

1) The value and attraction of this forum is built on the quality of its membership and the quality of the public discussions that occur within its space. The creation of a support structure that supports greater PM chatter is, by definition, antithetical to the broader goals and intentions of a robust, civil and open forum. You got something interesting to say? Well then let's us all in on it!

2) Retention of a greater number of PM for classified ad chatter recording is a poor reason and an excuse. This forum exists for the chemistry of its membership and the quality of its content. This forum does not exist as a posting board for buy-sell activity - that resource is a byproduct from the quality of its membership.
Virtually every sale encompasses unique circumstances that effect the items price - all that old pricing data is useless. Face it, anybody screwing around with endless back 'n forth PMs about an item rarely buys squat - they are just wasting time kicking tires or hoping to somehow negotiate the price down to free. Need pricing data? Try e-bay.

3) Keeping stuff "above board" helps keep out the riff-raff. As this forum grows there will always be an element of stupidity that is attracted to something good and is part of every crowd. Some of this crowd may delight in mayhem. Offering that kind of member a robust PM back-channel inside the forum itself is not constructive. This kind of member cannot exist out in the open and should not be permitted to exist underground.


You seem to be under the impression that just because we have a limited pm box there will be less pms? Are you thinking that those who send alot of pms have less to say publicly because they send pms instead? Are you thinking that the riff-raff will not come here because they only have a pm-box limited to 200 pms at the same time? Are they too lazy and convenient to delete the pms? More so than the non riff-raff?

It wouldn't change a thing about the character of this forum if we increased the pm box. Do you believe the community is a lesser place in any way now than before and if so that the reason for that is down to that we now have a 200 limit instead of the old 100 limit on the pm-box?

[FlashUNC]

If you're chatting with someone so often, or so frequently that you need 500 or 1,000 or unlimited PMs, just use Google Hangouts or another communication service.

For the friends I have made on this forum, jeez Louise, we actually communicate by means that are more capable of handling and storing that information if we want to do so. I've lost count of how many times Elefantino has blown me off on a potential bike ride via text message. (Zing!)

I'm not as strident in my position as fuzz, but I definitely lean more in his direction. This is a public forum meant to encourage public discussion.

A private message network of users is neither the main goal, nor should it be.

[fkelly]

1. and most important, whatever Keith decides and @Keith please minimize your workload on this. Thanks for all you do.

2. Personally, I'd be very happy if any private messages were automatically routed to my email. PM'S are so 1990's. Seems like every web site and a lot of other "things" want to have their own private, separate way of communication. Facebook, my phone account (through text messages (which I abhor)) and many others. Nuts! Just send it to my email and I'll see it. Send it anywhere else and who knows ... I've had Facebook messages sit for weeks before I even noticed they were there.

3. I can't speak for Vbulletin, but I ran a web site where the messages were stored in a data base table just like they are in Vbulletin. As admin, if you "dumped" the database or even browsed it online through a database tool you could read what anyone sent to anyone. I never did that of course but it's inherently insecure. Therefore just a stupid way to do business.

Looking up in the right corner of my screen I have 11 private messages, 0 unread. In a few seconds I'll have zero ... thanks for the reminder.

[Satellite]

True, but I'd like to see how much space we are currently using and I'm having a problem getting that data.

Keith A.,

Hate to resurface this old thread but any luck moving forward with the P.M. storage increase?

[josephr]

nvm

[tuscanyswe]

Unlimted Paaaweeeerrr ! Do it :hello:

[AJosiahK]

I don't think we need unlimited, but more than what we have might help.

I keep some of mine for records, and for remembering to reply when I have received something and have started to use it as its usually not right away.

Also for recalling who to thank when Im posting in the classifieds seller/buyer review thread.

I guess we could copy and paste important to us messages elsewhere. Which maybe is less work than the mods lifting the # allowed in our inboxes?

cheers

[Gsinill]

Or, as an alternative, would it be possible to change the email notification setup to include PM specific details as described here: http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/forum...cation-subject?

As someone that has been bitchin' about the 200 PM limit for quite some time, I would be totally fine with the email notification if it told me the sender/recipient and subject of the PM instead of the generic email header now.

[rnhood]

BTW, you can download your PMs as XML, CSV or regular text. There is an option at the bottom of your PM list which will allow you to either download all your PM's or just the ones selected.

Perfect solution, and it couldn't be easier.

[William]

FYI,

This is on our agenda for consideration so stay tuned.







William

[foo_fighter]

Any updates on this?

[p nut]

I’m all for unlimited. I’d be willing to fork up some annual $ dues for that option as well.

[tuscanyswe]

unlimted paaaweeeerrr ! Do it :hello:


+1

[54ny77]

really, how hard is it to just pm someone and say, "here's my email [ ], prefer to communicate that way." or phone. or whatever.

[tuscanyswe]

really, how hard is it to just pm someone and say, "here's my email [ ], prefer to communicate that way." or phone. or whatever.

You cant send a pm with a full box. Duh.. :banana:

[huck*this]

I have a forum tab in my gmail and keep all PM messages in there. A simple search for either the username or topic brings up all PMs. Easy stuff. Unlimited PM box might get messy.