will campy retrofriction shifters shift across a 10 speed cassette?

[pavel]

As I recall I could never get simplex levers to work with anything bigger than a 9 speed. I'm guessing campagnolo wont be any different, but just in case....


Kind of itching to put downtube shifters back on my ebisu but would like to keep it 10 speed. Thoughts?

[ctam]

I haven't tried myself but I bet they would work. You would, however, need to get the newer style shifters where the rear shifter has a larger barrel than the front shifter. I believe these came out in 1991 when 8 speed was introduced???

[oldpotatoe]

As I recall I could never get simplex levers to work with anything bigger than a 9 speed. I'm guessing campagnolo wont be any different, but just in case....


Kind of itching to put downtube shifters back on my ebisu but would like to keep it 10 speed. Thoughts?

Problem is using a rear der that will get across 10 cog height, the RH shifter is aaaaalllll the way aft, parallel to the downtube or further. If you can find a big barrel Record retro friction shifter, that works better but still pretty far aft.

I have a set of big barrel shifters and a NOS CDA rear der waiting for my next MXLeader..but it'll be for 7s freewheel, not 10s.

[pavel]

Bummer, the barrel style was either friction or 7 index as i recall, not retrofriction.


And I missed out on that plate group buy....

[choke]

You can increase the effective size of the barrel by placing a piece of housing liner or layers of shrink wrap over the cable at the shifter end.

[ultraman6970]

You can use a 10 speed shimano down tube shifter.

[oldpotatoe]

Bummer, the barrel style was either friction or 7 index as i recall, not retrofriction.


And I missed out on that plate group buy, bummer....

Big barrel was indeed retrofriction. The index one also has a 'big barrel'.

[oldpotatoe]

You can use a 10 speed shimano down tube shifter.

'will campy retrofriction shifters shift across a 10 speed cassette?'

[ultraman6970]

Just adding an option because the stuff will suck with 10 speed unless you tweak it.

[R3awak3n]

not sure of campy but I know friction and 10 speed cassette work flawlessly. Some say that you should not use friction with more than 8 speed because gears too close but I have found out that it is simply not truth.

[ultraman6970]

Honest, it will work, all depends a lot of who is in the driver seat, some guys cant even shift using indexing so no way they will shift spot on using friction with a 10 speed cassette. That said, the main problem to me as somebody mentioned before is that the old campy friction will make almost a 270 degrees when trying to shift all the way maybe from 6th gear up the 10th largest cog. Somebody mentioned a tweak for this adding cable casing, that work.

The cleanest solution IMO is to find a 10 speed dura ace d/t shifters. I know the dude wants to use the campy shifters tho... between you and me, shimano, suntour and simplex d/t shifters from back in the day were way better than the campagnolo ones.

[pavel]

Big barrel was indeed retrofriction. The index one also has a 'big barrel'.

I'm confused.

So these shifters are the big barrel synchro style - these are the 7 speed indexed. I have tried setting these up as friction only and they did not work to shift 10 cogs.
http://cdn3.bigcommerce.com/s-1rmgckn/products/3719/images/37595/TSR_Watermark_2715__84121.1450921942.1280.1280.JPG


These are the retrofriction shifters I was referring to:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/used-set-Campagnolo-Croce-dAune-retrofriction-downtube-shifters-retro-friction-/381563243651?hash=item58d6f10c83:g:ZVsAAOSwp5JWZdL b



And I think that there was also a super record style version of the retrofriction, is that what you are referring to?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/321770807807?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true

If so I guess I did not realize that those were a larger diameter than normal super record shifters.
Aesthetically, I wanted to use the doppler or synchro style paddles vs super record.


Another idea - could I get synchro 7 or 8 speed downtube shifters and replace the index with a 10 speed bar end index?

[ColonelJLloyd]

I've heard people claim they love Simplex RF shifters on 9 and 10 speed cassettes. I have to believe that's because they just really, really want to. DT shifters weren't designed to have to move 180 degrees to shift through all the rear gears and with most vintage friction shifters that's what you're in for. With a ratcheting shifter that's one thing (and still silly to me), but with a retrofriction shifter you're stressing that spring in such a way that it's just not going to work as intended.

I did use the Simplex RFs on RetroShift brake levers shifting a 7s HG freewheel and it was pretty damn fun.

Also, what is the point of having the retrofriction design on an indexed shifter? Seems to defeat the purpose.

[pavel]

sorry, that wasnt clear.

so 2 trains of thought going here:

1) I want downtube shifters that work with campy 10

2) I want downtube shifters that are retrofriction

those two might not be compatible ideas. So it seems to me like what I'm hearing and reading is that the retrofriction small barrel (or even large barrel) would require more than 180 degrees to shift (which I have experienced and why I ditched the simplex/10 speed attempt long ago.)

So as an alternative, I guess I want to try the synchro style shifter with a 10 speed index and wondering if it will work. Anectodal internet evidence suggests either I can swap a 6/7 index inside a synchro to a 10 speed index, and if not, then perhaps I can use the back lever stop plate from a synchro on a 10 speed bar end paddle.

[ctam]

This is what the levers look like - note the larger barrel for the rear shifter.

[smontanaro]

These are the retrofriction shifters I was referring to:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/used-set-Campagnolo-Croce-dAune-retrofriction-downtube-shifters-retro-friction-/381563243651?hash=item58d6f10c83:g:ZVsAAOSwp5JWZdL b

That's for sale by Ron Boi (RRB Cycles), just up the road from me. I wouldn't be surprised if he knows if they'd work. If you buy 'em and they don't work, I could probably be persuaded to take them off your hands. I've been meaning to get a set (I have a couple of the Simplex/Huret retrofriction shifters), and don't have more than seven cogs in back.

[oldpotatoe]

I'm confused.

So these shifters are the big barrel synchro style - these are the 7 speed indexed. I have tried setting these up as friction only and they did not work to shift 10 cogs.
http://cdn3.bigcommerce.com/s-1rmgckn/products/3719/images/37595/TSR_Watermark_2715__84121.1450921942.1280.1280.JPG


These are the retrofriction shifters I was referring to:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/used-set-Campagnolo-Croce-dAune-retrofriction-downtube-shifters-retro-friction-/381563243651?hash=item58d6f10c83:g:ZVsAAOSwp5JWZdL b



And I think that there was also a super record style version of the retrofriction, is that what you are referring to?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/321770807807?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true

If so I guess I did not realize that those were a larger diameter than normal super record shifters.
Aesthetically, I wanted to use the doppler or synchro style paddles vs super record.


Another idea - could I get synchro 7 or 8 speed downtube shifters and replace the index with a 10 speed bar end index?

There are something like 7 or 8 generations of Campagnolo downtube shifters. Syncro 1, Syncro 2(the ones pictured with the big knurled knob), Syncro 3 with 2 springs(8s only essentially and no friction mode) and Syncro 3 with 3 springs that can be 8/9/10s with a shift disc, also no friction mode.

Older SuperRecord type friction, very first generation retro friction shifters that looked like fat SuperRecord. Those pictured ones are very rare and very expensive.(the ones picrtured for $245-a bargain).

First gen Retro friction(pictured on you post) and last generation fat barreled ones when Valentino went to 8s, a 2 bolt, slant parallelogram rear der and thought true racers and enthusiasts would use C Record/friction and cyclo tourists and nurses would use CDA/Chorus/Athena click shifting.

For 10s and friction. I'd say the one to use would be the fat barreled, retro friction shifters, kinda hard to find. For indexing, find a set of 10s barends, get the rear plates(I have a set), and use any rear der for indexed 10s shifting. Or find some 3 spring 9s, get a shift disc for 10s-go ride.

[pavel]

This is what the levers look like - note the larger barrel for the rear shifter.

I dont think I've seen these anywhere, at least i have not seen that distinction until now.


I cant tell from these pictures whether these barrel sizes are different - maybe its the angle or maybe my eyes are just terrible:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Campagnolo-C-Record-Downtube-Friction-Shifters-Braze-On-/182053919391

?

[pavel]

Seeing the 11s Shimano dt thread made me remember this.

So, results:

1) big barrel early 90s retrofriction downtube shifter works perfectly to shift a campy 10 speed cassette. I suspect it would work just as well with 11 given that the freehub body size is the same.

2) a Synchro indexed downtube lever can be modified to shift 10 speed buy simply buying the 10 speed bar-end index wheel (http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Campagnolo-Index-Gear-for-10-Speed-Bar-End-Shifter-/182065124032?hash=item2a63ed52c0:g:nzsAAOSwzvlW81a k)

I'll post some pictures later.

[Ken Robb]

Silver shifters from Rivendell are delights to use and I know they work fine with 9 speeds but I never tried them with 10 or 11 speeds. You could get and answer with a quick phone call to them.

[oldpotatoe]

Seeing the 11s Shimano dt thread made me remember this.

So, results:

1) big barrel early 90s retrofriction downtube shifter works perfectly to shift a campy 10 speed cassette. I suspect it would work just as well with 11 given that the freehub body size is the same.

2) a Synchro indexed downtube lever can be modified to shift 10 speed buy simply buying the 10 speed bar-end index wheel (http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Campagnolo-Index-Gear-for-10-Speed-Bar-End-Shifter-/182065124032?hash=item2a63ed52c0:g:nzsAAOSwzvlW81a k)

I'll post some pictures later.

True but HAS to be a three spring version, not 2 spring. 3 spring version started in 1995..all prior are 2 spring. Black take up spool is also a way to tell 3 spring.

1995