Pro's & 'Their' Equipment

[Jgrooms]

How about a little AM rant?

You'd never see a group of mere mortals stack their bikes up like this.

From MB's Strava feed:

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/03/16/c2feda31004600173568925137a5ab14.jpg




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tlittlefield]

To them it is just a "tool" to get their work done...

[sandyrs]

(a) how is this a rant?
(b) I will lean my bike against just about anything, anywhere if it stays upright because it is a durable piece of sporting equipment, not an in-progress souffle that will collapse at the slightest disturbance :)

[Gummee]

To them it is just a "tool" to get their work done...

...that they got for free...

BIG difference between paying for something with your own hard-earned $$ and getting something for free.

M

[MattTuck]

They're professionals, don't try that at home. :)

When they crash, no one says, "was the bike damaged?"...

[velomonkey]

When they crash, no one says, "was the bike damaged?"...

Unless you rode for the 02, 03 postal team and they were selling everyone's bike to fund the drug program :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:

[oldpotatoe]

How about a little AM rant?

You'd never see a group of mere mortals stack their bikes up like this.

From MB's Strava feed:

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/03/16/c2feda31004600173568925137a5ab14.jpg




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They don't pay for it, have a legion of wrenches to take care of it with an 18 wheeler full of spares. Tool, not trophy.

[chiasticon]

one juicy nugget from David Millar's book, when discussing how he treated his bike: "never buy a pro's old bike, especially his training bike."

[tiretrax]

It's really the front left one that's poorly stacked - and perhaps he put it at that angle to make sure they others wouldn't blow over because it was windy? Could one have been removed and the person who left was too lazy to restack that last one? Last one in had to go really, really badly and didn't take time to stack his bike well?

I think most pros take better care of their bikes than Millar.

[firerescuefin]

(a) how is this a rant?
(b) I will lean my bike against just about anything, anywhere if it stays upright because it is a durable piece of sporting equipment, not an in-progress souffle that will collapse at the slightest disturbance :)

This...I am not bothered by that pic in the least...bunch of bikes leaning against each other. Not a guitarist smashing his guitar on stage.

[chiasticon]

I think most pros take better care of their bikes than Millar.psssshttt... as if...

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs6/4304276_o.gif

[pinoymamba]

a messy bike pile makes it bit harder for thieves...

but pros aren't too attached to their bikes.
http://i.imgur.com/xzeXJRu.gif

i wonder how many pros have personal bikes?

[livingminimal]

i wonder how many pros have personal bikes?



almost every pro contract includes an at-home "training" bike.

Typically they're a mid-level, correctly branded frame.
Alloy wheels
Ultegra/Chorus/Force level.

higher-end pros get higher end bikes, and often train on last seasons race bike that isn't sold.

They get to keep that bike as part of their contract and train on it in the off-season at home. When they arrive at camps, they ride their race-machines.

[Rebel_Biker]

one juicy nugget from David Millar's book, when discussing how he treated his bike: "never buy a pro's old bike, especially his training bike."

I agree with that. I purchased a serotta CDA from the Sierra Nevada team. It was a great frame and fork. Came with campy record and mavic wheels. Every part on it was toast. Every bolt was torqued well beyond specs. The bars and seat post were so over torqued that they were ruined. Forget about the BB and crank arms, these had square taper.

At least it was a great deal and the frame and fork were great.

[Ronsonic]

one juicy nugget from David Millar's book, when discussing how he treated his bike: "never buy a pro's old bike, especially his training bike."

I did. But it was a US pro who had to do his own upkeep. It was beat to death. Beat. To. Death.

I got 10 guilt-free years of beating it myself before it retired with a headtube crack.

[Peter P.]

...that they got for free...
BIG difference between paying for something with your own hard-earned $$ and getting something for free.
M

Exactly.

[fuzzalow]

If you think that earning a racing bike working in a line of work that is brutal, remorseless and cruel is getting a bike for free, well that's one way of looking at it.

It is just a bike. Especially in the pro ranks where there is absolutely nothing worth cherishing from Pina F8s to anything else all the way down the line - all carbon fiber mass manufacture as easily tossed aside as it was originally popped out of the mold.

[AngryScientist]

i would suspect that most pros see their bikes in a similar fashion as lots of us office types see our laptop computers. essential for the job, but really just a piece of hardware. we need them to work right every day, and rely on them to do our job well - but just a tool. a piece of equipment to get the job done, not something sexy or dear.

[unterhausen]

I've piled my bike up like that, as long as you sort out the pile carefully, it's no problem. It's not like they are going to shift and cause damage because they have been put there fairly carefully.

[coffeecake]

i would suspect that most pros see their bikes in a similar fashion as lots of us office types see our laptop computers. essential for the job, but really just a piece of hardware. we need them to work right every day, and rely on them to do our job well - but just a tool. a piece of equipment to get the job done, not something sexy or dear.

Great point -- that's how I see it. I treat my machine rather poorly whereas I'm extra careful with the laptop I purchased and upgraded for personal use.

[MattTuck]

I think I see a new sponsorship opportunity.... :banana:

Kickstands!

[Dead Man]

So do pros ever get in trouble for throwing their $10k+ bikes during races? Seems like its generally the "stars" that do it, and that feels like its only because they know theyre stars and can get away with it.

Who counts the beans in a pro team? Maybe the team manager has no stake and the sponsors that write the checks are too far removed? No way.. Seems like someone in there has to manage a budget and will be pissed when a $3k group, $3k wheels and/or $5k frame get crunched for no better reason than someone got a flat or their der is out of adjustment.

[sandyrs]

So do pros ever get in trouble for throwing their $10k+ bikes during races? Seems like its generally the "stars" that do it, and that feels like its only because they know theyre stars and can get away with it.

Who counts the beans in a pro team? Maybe the team manager has no stake and the sponsors that write the checks are too far removed? No way.. Seems like someone in there has to manage a budget and will be pissed when a $3k group, $3k wheels and/or $5k frame get crunched for no better reason than someone got a flat or their der is out of adjustment.

I know this isn't the point but the cost to the sponsors is far, far below the retail prices you're quoting.

[Rebel_Biker]

So do pros ever get in trouble for throwing their $10k+ bikes during races? Seems like its generally the "stars" that do it, and that feels like its only because they know theyre stars and can get away with it.

Who counts the beans in a pro team? Maybe the team manager has no stake and the sponsors that write the checks are too far removed? No way.. Seems like someone in there has to manage a budget and will be pissed when a $3k group, $3k wheels and/or $5k frame get crunched for no better reason than someone got a flat or their der is out of adjustment.


Remember something about the "true cost" of that frame. It is not $5k. The pro teams get the frame for free from the sponsor. The sponsor is the company who makes the frame. The companies cost at the margin is no where near $5k. That $5k has a bunch of profit and sunk costs, like the cost of the molds, R&D, marketing, and G&A. The only costs to the sponsor are the direct costs, materials and labor, some overhead and shipping.

Labor is super cheap, so the bulk of the cost is the carbon and shipping. Carbon is not cheap but my guess is that the carbon cost per frame is in the $300 - $500 range, but I could easily be off on that.

[benb]

Labor is super cheap, so the bulk of the cost is the carbon and shipping. Carbon is not cheap but my guess is that the carbon cost per frame is in the $300 - $500 range, but I could easily be off on that.

I guess you'd have to know something about Sales volumes.. I would be real curious how big the market actually is for high end bikes.

[frank_h]

So do pros ever get in trouble for throwing their $10k+ bikes during races? Seems like its generally the "stars" that do it, and that feels like its only because they know theyre stars and can get away with it.

Who counts the beans in a pro team? Maybe the team manager has no stake and the sponsors that write the checks are too far removed? No way.. Seems like someone in there has to manage a budget and will be pissed when a $3k group, $3k wheels and/or $5k frame get crunched for no better reason than someone got a flat or their der is out of adjustment.

I think it's maybe more of a publicity thing. Remember the first Sagan throw? If I recall correctly, he had to make a big public apology to make it very clear he was not angry with the caliber of his Cdale ride.

[ANAO]

Riding with Carter Jones this past winter, I asked him how he liked his bike. He was then (as now) riding the Giant TCR. I also asked if he got to choose between the TCR or the Propel.

He shrugged his shoulders riding alongside me and kinda just went, "it's a bike. You pedal it and it goes. I got this one because I'm skinny. If I could sprint, I would have a propel."

Snapped this just before I got dropped.

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xla1/t31.0-8/12362710_1001040846635102_1148243497758836958_o.jp g

[m_sasso]

Where are you people coming from with "Pro's get free bikes"? It is there job and a part of their re-numeration, most likely don't own the bikes they ride and the bikes are owned by the team unless specified in their contract. By riding a sponsoring manufactures bike they add value to that brand name, their athletic performance is no different than individuals who possess inventory as intellectual capital — law firms, accounting firms, marketing firms, and consultancies of all kinds.

[pdmtong]

you wanna see a bike pile? get on the early afternoon ferry from Tiburon back to SF with all the tourists. Two piles, each about 75' deep.

[gaucho753]

http://i.imgur.com/xzeXJRu.gif


It would be fun to do that to my company laptop every time an application crashed...but I wouldn't have a job very long.

[Idris Icabod]

Carbon is not cheap but my guess is that the carbon cost per frame is in the $300 - $500 range, but I could easily be off on that.

I met a guy over Christmas who makes and sells carbon fiber to the mining industry and kits to reinforce basement walls (although I was heavily into a pub crawl at this point) and based on what he told me the cost of $300 seems very generous. Of course there may be different kinds based on applications to frames and mines.

Years ago the guys at Dean told me the cost of the raw tubes in their bikes, I won't repeat it, but it isn't so much.

[pinoymamba]

I met a guy over Christmas who makes and sells carbon fiber to the mining industry and kits to reinforce basement walls (although I was heavily into a pub crawl at this point) and based on what he told me the cost of $300 seems very generous. Of course there may be different kinds based on applications to frames and mines.

Years ago the guys at Dean told me the cost of the raw tubes in their bikes, I won't repeat it, but it isn't so much.

i'd figure the material itself isn't that costly but the rnd/mold/process/name and all that stuff is what consumers are paying for.

and by personal bikes i mean are there any pros who actually appreciate bikes other then riding them like drones. Maybe Fab has a Pegoretti w/ campagnolo he rides secretly...

[Idris Icabod]

and by personal bikes i mean are there any pros who actually appreciate bikes other then riding them like drones. Maybe Fab has a Pegoretti w/ campagnolo he rides secretly...

I'm sure you are correct, these guys where bike geeks before they were pros. I can't find the article but I read Eric Zabel is a real bike geek and has an affinity to Colnago. Cavendish also goes on about his obsession with components in his autobiography.

[Mark McM]

I met a guy over Christmas who makes and sells carbon fiber to the mining industry and kits to reinforce basement walls (although I was heavily into a pub crawl at this point) and based on what he told me the cost of $300 seems very generous. Of course there may be different kinds based on applications to frames and mines.

Years ago the guys at Dean told me the cost of the raw tubes in their bikes, I won't repeat it, but it isn't so much.

Titanium tubes are more expensive that steel or aluminum tubes, but the difference in raw material cost isn't nearly as much as the difference between the finished costs of a titanium frame vs. a steel or aluminum frame. Most of the cost difference is that titanium is harder to work with, so there is more cost in time and equipment.

Likewise, the raw materials for carbon fiber may be low, but the amount of hand labor to produce a finished frame can be quite high. That's why most carbon fiber manufacturing has been move to parts of the world where hand labor is less expensive.

[fignon's barber]

Labor is super cheap, so the bulk of the cost is the carbon and shipping. Carbon is not cheap but my guess is that the carbon cost per frame is in the $300 - $500 range, but I could easily be off on that.

In 2011 after a career in a different industry, I thought about a change of direction and explored this bike industry. I had done well and thought about the whole "do something you love" thing. I went over to Europe and met with a couple bike companies and got into the numbers to better understand what I was possibly getting into.
To summarize, unit price on a carbon frameset (frame and fork) ran roughly 225 euros on average , with slight variances based on model, less R&D. A key practice for bike companies is to upsell the customer to the "high modulus" or more "advanced carbon layup" version, which often raises the MSRP $1k or more. The mfg unit price for these higher end models are only a few dollars more.
I never got into the bike business, my evaluation was that it was a game of very high marketing costs, with very high initial costs. Their is a reason why the "big 4" dominate (trek,cdale,spec,giant). In the end, the numbers weren't right.
This is why I'm so fond of the growing trend of the artisan framebuider.

[thirdgenbird]

i'd figure the material itself isn't that costly but the rnd/mold/process/name and all that stuff is what consumers are paying for.

and by personal bikes i mean are there any pros who actually appreciate bikes other then riding them like drones. Maybe Fab has a Pegoretti w/ campagnolo he rides secretly...

Wiggins is a total bike geek. He has a big collection of old and new, some of it with historical value. My personal favorite, apparently he has on of Jan Ullrich's frames with a Campagnolo 80th group on it.

[dpk501]

Wiggins is a total bike geek. He has a big collection of old and new, some of it with historical value. My personal favorite, apparently he has on of Jan Ullrich's frames with a Campagnolo 80th group on it.

Juan Antonio Flecha seems to be an aesthetic guy too with his two passoni's he shows on his IG account.

[oldpotatoe]

Wiggins is a total bike geek. He has a big collection of old and new, some of it with historical value. My personal favorite, apparently he has on of Jan Ullrich's frames with a Campagnolo 80th group on it.

Good on him!!!

[peanutgallery]

Back when I worked in shops in a big metro area, worked on many a fair to middling pro's bike. Generally speaking it was a hard legs soft mind situation, focused on riding/training and not aesthetics. It wasn't uncommon to encounter some pretty dire mechanical issues as a result.
Those things were roached, would never buy one

Buddy of mine bought one of the cancer carpetbagger's training bikes at the ride for the roses. What a festering hunk of crap. Mis matched dura-ace and other junk from the freebie bin. Unridable, and worthless at the moment

My most interesting customers were pro in other sports that rode for training. Scott Russell (the chief, Mr Daytona, world super bike champ) would randomly show up with a bike in a box sticking out of a viper that someone gave him. Promotion of some sort or another. He had wide eyed newbie thing going and was extremely pumped about bikes. Super nice guy

[velomonkey]

Wiggins is a total bike geek. He has a big collection of old and new, some of it with historical value. My personal favorite, apparently he has on of Jan Ullrich's frames with a Campagnolo 80th group on it.

Search is easy enough to do, but they asked Wiggo his favorite bike ever and he didn't miss a breath and said "colnago C40" - the man knows his stuff.

[fuzzalow]

Search is easy enough to do, but they asked Wiggo his favorite bike ever and he didn't miss a breath and said "colnago C40" - the man knows his stuff.

Thumbs up and kudos to Wiggo for knowing his stuff.

I agree that the best era for carbon fiber was basically found in the second wave of that materials emergence into the sport. Because those 2nd-Gen bikes, like the C-40, rode like steel bikes but built using the newer, lighter CF material. And IMO those 2nd-Gen CF bikes were the best of them all.

It was after the first wave innovations in just the novelty of carbon fiber being used for bikes which were embodied in bikes like the TVT and the Alan. And in coming before the bikes that followed which I coin as the the third wave which then entered the era of the stiffness wars as driven by the marketing from big-box-bike manufacturers like Trek with their infamously wooden riding CF early versions. And this meaningless marketing angle in stiffness has been the driving force ever since.

But those stiff bikes don't ride as nice. A C-40, as like also the first version of the DeRosa King - I owned them both and were fabulous riding bikes that rode like Italian steel racebikes not made of steel. Superlative rides. Just ask Wiggo who likely knows this to be true also.

I'll admit that I have no desire for any carbon fiber bike save one - a Parlee Z1 that could be made in a slightly less stiff carbon fiber tube composite in seeking to replicate the ride quality of the Colnago C-40. Twin tube seatstays on the Z1 like the C-40 to boot. Now that to me is the next bike I get after fulfilling my Dario requirement of which I am currently without.

[livingminimal]

Now that to me is the next bike I get after fulfilling my Dario requirement of which I am currently without.

I'd hurry.

[velomonkey]

a Parlee Z1 that could be made in a slightly less stiff carbon fiber tube composite in seeking to replicate the ride quality of the Colnago C-40. Twin tube seatstays on the Z1 like the C-40 to boot. Now that to me is the next bike I get after fulfilling my Dario requirement of which I am currently without.

The greatest sin the carbon fiber world has perpetrated on the bike world is the slow death of the twin seat stay.

[Climb01742]

The greatest sin the carbon fiber world has perpetrated on the bike world is the slow death of the twin seat stay.

That, or a blind fixation on stiffness and lowest possible weight.