Ingestion of Carbohydrate Sports Drinks

[Splash]

Hello All.

Keen to read your opinons on carbohydrate sports drink ingestion.......

The following paragraphs are extracted from the web source below.

"One study compared two such beverages. Ingestion of glucose + fructose resulted in high rates of carbohydrate burning and fluid availability than a glucose only beverage, when subjects cycled in the heat. A follow-up study looked at the effects of varying drinks on performance. Ingestion of a glucose + fructose drink led to an 8-percent improvements in cycling time trial performance when compared to the ingestion of glucose alone. You might also want to consider that the sodium in sports drinks also helps pull the fluid through the small intestine when compared to water alone."

"Having multiple carbohydrates can increase carbohydrate absorption to 1.3 g/kg body weight per hour versus just 1 g/kg per hour with glucose alone. Drink on a schedule and start drinking early on during your training ride. Once you become dehydrated gastric emptying will slow down."

http://velonews.competitor.com/2009/12/training-center/nutrition/coaches-panel-which-is-better-warm-or-cold-water_101908#s5qimZTh0zJGzrBQ.99

Questions:

1) Those who use carbohydrate sports drinks (with glucose and fructose and sodium) instead of plain water, do u notice and improvement in performance and stay hydrated longer?

2) What brands of carbohydrate sports drinks do u use?

3) Should these drinks be consumed before riding commences?

4) Is there a minimum riding time / duration time before you should start to ingest these sports drinks?



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[bikinchris]

Every stomach is different. I saw the Cytomax is still selling their sports carb drink. I will puke within minutes of swallowing that stuff. Gatorade type drinks shut my stomach down and I will cramp up in a few minutes. Personally, I ride best on a Shaklee product called Performance. I actually have to stop for a bathroom break if I drink lots of it and I ride very well on it. I have fewer cramps on long rides (over 80 miles) and I am more able to maintain a high level output. But you might be just the opposite with your personal digestive system.

Most of them suggest you start hydrating as the riding starts, some a few minutes before.

If you are doing shorter rides, there isn't as much benefit. You should have enough water and glycogen in your system to do well for rides of less than a few hours.

[CDM]

you might have other issues

[leftyfreak]

Keen to read your opinons on carbohydrate sports drink ingestion.......


I ingest my sports drink through my mouth. :banana:

(And I usually drink Skratch for rides longer than an hour.)

Try different things, and find out what works for you.

[MattTuck]

In general, if someone is trying to sell you something, I am slightly more skeptical of whether you really need it.

That said, what is your ultimate goal? If you want to perform or train at your maximum potential, having the carbohydrates could be beneficial, as compared to not having sufficient calories to complete your high intensity workouts.

On the other hand, the cutting edge stuff seems to be around limiting carb intake so you train your body to oxidize fat during activity.

[Splash]

Thanks Matt

Oxidising fat during activity sounds cool.

Does this imply to use fat for energy burn and not infest the carbohydrate sports drinks?


Splash

[rnhood]

Fructose is metabolized by the liver therefore offers another pathway for carbs. So yes, it is best to drink something with both glucose (or other simple sugar) and fructose. Drinking before the ride is good, and during the ride is good.

[berserk87]

I've never been convinced by sports drinks, based on my own experience. I have tried numerous types over the years and could never tell any difference in performance versus plain water (despite what Gatorade marketing says). This is not only for cycling, but for football and track back in the day.

I do eat on rides if they are longer than 3 or 4 hours - bananas, simple fruit/nut bars, and an occasional gel. I am not trying to sound contrary for the sake of it, but I just have not personally seen benefit from sports drinks and sports energy bars versus regular water and normal household food items.

I don't even carry a water bottle for a 40K TT anymore. Ours are so early in the morning that it's generally not too hot, and I can last without water for a few minutes under an hour. I just started this 2 years ago and I can't say that it's been detrimental - I had a PR this for my 40k time.

[MattTuck]

Thanks Matt

Oxidising fat during activity sounds cool.

Does this imply to use fat for energy burn and not infest the carbohydrate sports drinks?


Splash

Splash, it is all about marginal gains.

If you can train your body to burn fat instead of carbs, you can (in theory) have access to more energy since your fat stores are bigger than your carb stores.

You can try to train your body by going out for a 4 hour ride on an empty stomach, and consume no carbs during your ride.

Don't drink infested carbohydrate sports drinks. sounds like it could cause stomach upset.

[MattTuck]

Splash, I was joking about the 4 hour ride with no food.

Here is more information on the fat oxidation.

http://www.joefrielsblog.com/2011/01/becoming-a-better-fat-burner.html

[Splash]

thanks Matt

just curious - how do the pro riders burn fat instead of carbs when their body fat is so low to start off with (before the ride)?


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[bikinchris]

you might have other issues

Possibly, but I tried different drinks with very different results and the only difference I can see is the concentration of different kind of carbs.

On the first long ride I did with Shaklee Performance was a very hot century ride in Shreveport, LA. Every stop was sponsored by them and they had iced Performance drink in full strength. I actually had to stop during the ride and use the port-o-let. Never had to do that before. No cramps even in what passes for hills here in Louisiana. Never had such a great century ride. We finished with 98 miles on the computers, so we rode around the area until we hit 100. Not going to do that if I was struggling to finish.

We also did a two week ride in Michigan riding around the northern half of Lake Michigan. Did great every day with my own mix (measured for my size water bottles packed in little snack sized bags to mix out on the road), except the last day, when I ran out near the end. With 5 miles to go, I was in agony. My wife asked if we should stop and rest. I told her if I got off that (tandem) bike I wasn't going to get back on. Every part of my body ached with no power. I bonked and went into dehydration drinking plain water and eating snacks.
So, YMMV.

[Mikej]

I feel that any article about any product or service is a paid ad. I also cannot stomach sports drinks when I have taken myself down to the wire. Water for me can even cause problems if I drink more than a few gulps during mtb racing on super hot humid days.

[ripvanrando]

I only use sports drinks or eat on rides longer than say 100 miles and my preference is EFS Pro or my homebrew as follows:

2 scoops Malto-Dextrin (about 100 Calories per scoop)
1 scoop Highly branched Cyclic Dextrose with minerals
1/2 scoop D-Ribose
Small pinch of sea salt
5-10 grams BCAA (occasionally)
Flavoring options: none, pure vanilla drop, lemon, or spike with a bit of the commercial energy drinks.

Fructose causes GI distress for me.

http://firstendurance.com/nutrition/efspro.html

[Splash]

Thanks rando

Interesting home brew

How long have you used this formula for?

Great link as well.

Splash

[MattTuck]

thanks Matt

just curious - how do the pro riders burn fat instead of carbs when their body fat is so low to start off with (before the ride)?


Splash

Don't quote me on the exact numbers, but I believe your body only has enough glycogen for about 2 hours of moderate exercise. Even someone with low body fat percentage has more than that amount of energy stored in fat.

[John H.]

You are neglecting many factors relative to fat burning.
1.) As intensity rises, fat burning goes down. So you need to ride in the zones that allow for the most fat burning- this is LOW intensity.
2.) You can train this to an extent- but what you are doing is raising your power and efficiency at the fat burning level- not like you can teach your body to prefer fat at high intensities.
3.) It takes carbs to burn fat. This either comes from calories that you eat, or glycogen.

Splash, it is all about marginal gains.

If you can train your body to burn fat instead of carbs, you can (in theory) have access to more energy since your fat stores are bigger than your carb stores.

You can try to train your body by going out for a 4 hour ride on an empty stomach, and consume no carbs during your ride.

Don't drink infested carbohydrate sports drinks. sounds like it could cause stomach upset.

[Splash]

Thanks John

What levels are defined to burn fat?

Why and how do carbs burn fat?


This link below talks about the different zones to burn fat, Zones 2, 3, 4, 5 are all mentioned...

http://cyclingtips.com/2009/09/maximize-your-ability-to-burn-fat-as-fuel/

Not sure which is the primary zone to burn fat?


Splash

[Splash]

I only use sports drinks or eat on rides longer than say 100 miles and my preference is EFS Pro or my homebrew as follows:

2 scoops Malto-Dextrin (about 100 Calories per scoop)
1 scoop Highly branched Cyclic Dextrose with minerals
1/2 scoop D-Ribose
Small pinch of sea salt
5-10 grams BCAA (occasionally)
Flavoring options: none, pure vanilla drop, lemon, or spike with a bit of the commercial energy drinks.

Fructose causes GI distress for me.

http://firstendurance.com/nutrition/efspro.html

Hi again.

I notice that neither your homemade brew or EFS Pro have glucose or fructose. I acknowledge that you have issues with fructose, but how are your options effective without glucose or fructose?

Is it recommended to always have sports drinks with glucose and fructose?


Splash

[John H.]

You will burn the most fat in the zone 2 and zone 3 level.

Type I (slowtwitch) muscle fibers use glucose and fat as their fuel source.
Type IIa (fast twitch but trainable to be fast or slow) use glucose and glycogen for fuel.
Type IIb (fast twitch) muscle fibers use glycogen for fuel.

Zone 2 uses primarily type I muscle (slowtwitch) that is fueled the glucose and fat.
Zone 3 starts to use some IIa fibers- so less fat use.
Zone 4 brings in some IIb fibers- so even less fat.
Zone 4 uses pretty musch all glycogen

Glucose comes from the food we eat- so you can replenish this by eating during a ride.
It is not possible to replenish glycogen during a ride- when it is gone, it is gone.
Thanks John

What levels are defined to burn fat?

Why and how do carbs burn fat?


This link below talks about the different zones to burn fat, Zones 2, 3, 4, 5 are all mentioned...

http://cyclingtips.com/2009/09/maximize-your-ability-to-burn-fat-as-fuel/

Not sure which is the primary zone to burn fat?


Splash

[Splash]

WOW - Great post!

Thanks John.

How do i best determine my primary muscle fibre group in my body?


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[John H.]

We all have all 3 muscle fiber types.
Outside of a muscle biopsy you can somewhat gauge it by what you are good at.
Good sprinters tend to have more Type II muscle fibers.
Do you sprint well- cycling or running?
Good vertical jump?
I was always slow as molasses and poor vertical jump- I have surmised that I am about as slowtwitch as you can be.

WOW - Great post!

Thanks John.

How do i best determine my primary muscle fibre group in my body?


Splash

[Splash]

i think i am more slow twitch, but would be handy to have that confirmed medically.

Is it always good to stock up on glycogen before an intensive ride?

Recommended sources of good glycogen and how much would i need per body?



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[John H.]

If you use training peaks they have some metrics where you can see profiles that shed light on natural abilities.
Other than that you might see if a local university has a lab that does this type of testing.

i think i am more slow twitch, but would be handy to have that confirmed medically.

Splash