PegoCrumpton

[YesNdeed]

To me, this raises an interesting question:
Would you get a Pegoretti, or a Crumpton, painted by Pegoretti?
Thoughts aside, here's your daily Dario.

[bobswire]

If I was able to afford one I'd probably be able to buy both (as well a DK JKS Terraplane) but do to my penchant for being a slacker all my life I have to settle for the photo, thanks.

http://i65.tinypic.com/2iw7iut.jpg

[David Kirk]

Nice.

dave

[Mzilliox]

i may flow against the current here, but I'd much rather Dario build a bike than paint one of my bikes... and if it were that Crumpton, I'd be a bit disappointed it looked like a child's art project.

YMMV, but thats my take on this very singular example.:eek:

[chiasticon]

i may flow against the current here, but I'd much rather Dario build a bike than paint one of my bikes... and if it were that Crumpton, I'd be a bit disappointed it looked like a child's art project.

YMMV, but thats my take on this very singular example.:eek:I'll second that. crumpton's generally look damn classy with minimal paint (there was a pink one across the hall for a while that was incredible).

the idea is cool though. just not a fan of this particular artwork. that's also true for other stuff from Dario, or in fact any artist.

[thirdgenbird]

I would want a steel road bike built by Dario painted by Dario and an aluminum gauzetti cross bike also painted by Dario.

[Mzilliox]

i realize my comments read as a bit harsh so i apologize to whoever owns this bike. Its your bike and that you love it is all that matters, my sense of aesthetics mean nothing. the reality is I'm envious of anyone with a Pego or especially a Crumpton.

best

Matt:)

[eddief]

the entire package, that guy.

[YesNdeed]

...or especially a Crumpton.

I expected some scrutiny, and ^ says a lot to the original question. Thanks for the replies.:beer:

[pdmtong]

Now that there are two Dario paint jobs on non Dario frames in the wild I wonder what motivated him to take the commission. Commission as in job not money. Then again Iirc ciavete is ~$1500

are the doors open? C60 Dario panted? Limited only to handmade friends?

For me I'd prefer Dario paint on Dario steel but really like both the Kirk and crumpton

[Mikej]

No, that pego paint job must weight 2 lbs..

[David Kirk]

Now that there are two Dario paint jobs on non Dario frames in the wild I wonder what motivated him to take the commission. Commission as in job not money. Then again Iirc ciavete is ~$1500

are the doors open? C60 Dario panted? Limited only to handmade friends?

For me I'd prefer Dario paint on Dario steel but really like both the Kirk and crumpton

He told me he just wants to have some fun. I know it's not about the money.

dave

[Mzilliox]

I expected some scrutiny, and ^ says a lot to the original question. Thanks for the replies.:beer:

Cool, and yes, yes it does...:beer:

[93legendti]

To me, this raises an interesting question:
Would you get a Pegoretti, or a Crumpton, painted by Pegoretti?
Thoughts aside, here's your daily Dario.

Love it.

[weisan]

Framebuilding is mostly a solitary endeavor, I think it's great that two or more framebuilders especially the more prominent ones, can collaborate and do something together.

[makoti]

Ultraman just mentioned this project to me, and now here it is! Interesting, to say the least. I personally wouldn't mess with the look of my Crumpton, but having the chance to have a bike painted Pegoretti would be tempting. Unique!

[Fishbike]

Crumpton painted by Dario? Hell yeah. (But I really want a Duende in ciavate: "Fish. Bright colors"

[Climb01742]

I see it as an expression of mutual respect. Cool that.

Also, framebuilding is a way Dario expresses his creativity. His paint is another. His love of music is another. There's more creativity, more ideas bubbling in him than his frames alone can express. Cool he searches for other outlets. Talking to him, one thing you're very aware of his mind is lively, racing, curious, bouncing around. Other outlets aren't surprising.

[ultraman6970]

Wow and I thought I was going to see pictures of this one like the next year hehe :)

Looks sick! :)

Mr Crumpton needs to talk with Mr Pegoretti and probably come with some carbon pegorettis ?

Way to go steve !!! :D

[reggiebaseball]

He told me he just wants to have some fun. I know it's not about the money.

dave

Ironically, though I am the worlds biggest Dario fan, own at least 4 of his frames, including a ciavete,

I would like to cast my opinion that providing ciavete paint jobs for Crumpton, Kirk or Crisp actually serves to diminish the exclusivity and value of such paint on his own bikes, IMO.

Part of what makes my ciavete Peg special and valuable to me, is now being sold to others as an aftermarket item and used to decorate non-Peg bikes. I dont like it.

[shinomaster]

It looks like he put down blobs of paint and blew at them with a straw, which is so cool.

[weisan]

Part of what makes my ciavete Peg special and valuable to me, is now being sold to others as an aftermarket item and used to decorate non-Peg bikes. I dont like it.

reggie pal, I can understand where you are coming from...except that I don't think Dario actively peddled his ware and "sold" to the highest bidder. From what I have read, it was mutual friends who reached out to him and asked very very nicely....before he agreed.

[eBAUMANN]

the more bikes painted by dario the better IMO.
that frame looks awesome.
:beer:

[reggiebaseball]

reggie pal, I can understand where you are coming from...except that I don't think Dario actively peddled his ware and "sold" to the highest bidder. From what I have read, it was mutual friends who reached out to him and asked very very nicely....before he agreed.

Understood,
This is not a ding on Dario
I dont think he is trying to profit from it,
He is not being greedy or anything else,

nonetheless the effect is that it diminishes the exclusivity of his primary brand, which I think is not the right move.

This is a little different than painting pumps, because I don't see those on the road. When I see a ciavete on the road I think "wow a Pegoretti, awesome"

Or when I ride my ciavete, I know what those lustful looks from dudes on Evos, Colnagos and Pinarellos is all about - they are thinking "wow a Pegoretti, awesome"

Now, in reality, if there are six non-pegs floating around the world with Peg ciavete paint, does that really "diminish the brand" in a serious way, no not really.

[pdmtong]

Ironically, though I am the worlds biggest Dario fan, own at least 4 of his frames, including a ciavete,

I would like to cast my opinion that providing ciavete paint jobs for Crumpton, Kirk or Crisp actually serves to diminish the exclusivity and value of such paint on his own bikes, IMO.

Part of what makes my ciavete Peg special and valuable to me, is now being sold to others as an aftermarket item and used to decorate non-Peg bikes. I dont like it.

Understood,
This is not a ding on Dario
I dont think he is trying to profit from it,
He is not being greedy or anything else,

nonetheless the effect is that it diminishes the exclusivity of his primary brand, which I think is not the right move.

This is a little different than painting pumps, because I don't see those on the road. When I see a ciavete on the road I think "wow a Pegoretti, awesome"

Or when I ride my ciavete, I know what those lustful looks from dudes on Evos, Colnagos and Pinarellos is all about - they are thinking "wow a Pegoretti, awesome"

Now, in reality, if there are six non-pegs floating around the world with Peg ciavete paint, does that really "diminish the brand" in a serious way, no not really.

Nicely put. As much as I like the paint OF the Kirk and the Crumpton, I am not sure I like the paint ON the Kirk or Crumpton, at least in the sense if this became a more common aesthetic option for non-Dario frames.

One-offs are cool. The mutual builder respect-friends aspect I get and appreciate. Have fun why not.

BTW, it also took me awhile to accept ciavete on models other than responsorium...

[firerescuefin]

One offs don't diminish his brand...cmon now. There is not a single person in the world looking at that Crumpton or Kirk and not getting Peg because of it. If he were putting them out by the hundreds I get it....A handful...not buying it.

[FlashUNC]

Dario can paint as many bikes as he likes.

If Dario wants to make fewer (or zero) bikes and just paint for a living, totally his choice. God knows he could probably make a nice business out of just the paint stuff.

The Kirk was gorgeous in person. I'd imagine this Crumpton has a similar effect.

[gemship]

Dario can paint as many bikes as he likes.

If Dario wants to make fewer (or zero) bikes and just paint for a living, totally his choice. God knows he could probably make a nice business out of just the paint stuff.

The Kirk was gorgeous in person. I'd imagine this Crumpton has a similar effect.

I would have to agree. Realistically Dario I imagine is at a point in his career where he really can not only push the envelope but have fun with it. I think his brand/art on bikes is niche regarding the paint jobs alone and it certainly could be a neat little gig that would only make him more recognized, and only more so god forbid his passing.

I also have to say at one time I could relate to the comments of Mozilla regarding these paintjobs as the work of kids but not now. As I get older I learn to appreciate the skill involved as well as creativity in making an abstract piece of work out of this particular medium, a bike frame.

[rePhil]

Maybe he did.

Check out 1:20

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAArriZaRbs



It looks like he put down blobs of paint and blew at them with a straw, which is so cool.

[93legendti]

Dario paint on a Target bike would diminish his brand. Dario paint on a Kirk, Kellogg, Crumpton or Strong, etc? No way. Win-win.

[Avvocato]

Nope, prefer a built-by-Dario than painted-by-Dario

[livingminimal]

With all due respect to that amazing bike Dave Kirk and Dario put together, the only way I would want a David Kirk is with his usual painting involved, and the only way I would want a Dario paint job, is on one of his frames.

[eBAUMANN]

Maybe he did.

Check out 1:20

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAArriZaRbs

pretty common/cool technique used by a number of painters over the years, including dario and john slawta (landshark). its a good look IMO.

[weisan]

OK maybe we are getting a bit ahead of ourselves. Maybe the framebuilders involved have already taken those sentiments into account. Maybe that's why we don't see that happening as often as we would and only recently...

So I wonder...would we have as strong an objection if two musicians collaborate to create something unique and yet unmistakably have their fingerprints on it?

I know it's not exactly apples to apples.
But personally, I just thought it's so cool to combine and exchange talents and specialties, kinda like Wu Dang swordplay and Shao Lin fist :D

Maybe I will feel differently when I do own a Peg or a Kirk...one day maybe.

[makoti]

OK maybe we are getting a bit ahead of ourselves. Maybe the framebuilders involved have already taken those sentiments into account. Maybe that's why we don't see that happening as often as we would and only recently...

So I wonder...would we have as strong an objection if two musicians collaborate to create something unique and yet unmistakably have their fingerprints on it?

I know it's not exactly apples to apples.
But personally, I just thought it's so cool to combine and exchange talents and specialties, kinda like Wu Dang swordplay and Shao Lin fist :D

Maybe I will feel differently when I do own a Peg or a Kirk...one day maybe.

A good analogy, actually. The only difference I see is that no one "owns" the music except for the musicians (and that idiot who bought the Wu Tang Clan album). Builders sell what they make to us and it is ours. So seeing someone else with a part of what we paid for can bring this stuff out. If they did this as a show bike & only sold it later, that would likely not bother anyone.

[jchasse]

it diminishes the exclusivity of his primary brand, which I think is not the right move.


Please read this as being written largely tongue in cheek.

This may be a signal that this and the other great bike forums, are essentially tiny cultural black holes threatening to collapse in on themselves. *kidding!*

Dario has constructed and painted how many bikes? And now that he's painted, what, TWO other frames, he's diluting his brand!?

If anything, it gets people - or better yet cyclists, who have never paid much attention to Pegoretti, but follow custom American or custom carbon builders to say "wow, that's cool and totally different than the other *insert frame builder name here* bikes I've seen. Who's this Peg character?"

voila - your Peg brand was supported, not diluted.

Plus, these collaborations are possibly the coolest thing in the biz, particularly when they are between the best builders in the world.

atmo

[jchasse]

With all due respect to that amazing bike Dave Kirk and Dario put together, the only way I would want a David Kirk is with his usual painting involved, and the only way I would want a Dario paint job, is on one of his frames.

nothin' wrong with that.

[cadence90]

It looks like he put down blobs of paint and blew at them with a straw, which is so cool.
There is a video of him painting (paintings, not frames, in this case...the video might be on the GITA site or else it's on YouTube) and he's pretty much doing exactly that; pooling paint and then carefully controlling an airbrush nozzle or small compressor. It's very interesting.

I think collaboration is great, opens up the world, and can be very good for creative development on all sides, whether it's builder/tube manufacturer; builder/component manufacturer; or builder-painter/builder; etc.

As many have already said, these one-offs are fine. Dario is not going to paint the frame of someone he doesn't really know or respect, so I think the "exclusivity" is actually raised for both parties (though I really doubt that that is the aim at all).

Edit: I just saw that rePhil already posted the video, above. Thanks rePhil.

[FlashUNC]

Yet even if Dario woke up tomorrow and decided to paint Target bikes, or license his name to a series of bikes sold in Target in the "Dario-style" that is entirely his prerogative.

Dario, as an artist or framebuilder, owes us nothing.

[Louis]

Yet even if Dario woke up tomorrow and decided to paint Target bikes, or license his name to a series of bikes sold in Target in the "Dario-style" that is entirely his prerogative.

Dario, as an artist or framebuilder, owes us nothing.

Perhaps, but you can be sure that there would be plenty of complaints if he suddenly flooded the market with thousands of Wal Mart frames with his paint on them.

[teleguy57]

Yet even if Dario woke up tomorrow and decided to paint Target bikes, or license his name to a series of bikes sold in Target in the "Dario-style" that is entirely his prerogative.

Dario, as an artist or framebuilder, owes us nothing.

Or his Pegoragative :)

[weisan]

You know what...I think I had been too nice...Dario had been building bikes for---eevver! since he apprenticed under his father-in-law Luigino. His bikes have carried riders like Indurain, Pantani, SuperMario, just to name a few to victories...he has survived cancer. He is a tour de force in the framebuilding world in whichever way you look.

Dario can do what-ever **** he wants.

[Polyglot]

The Crumpton frame being discussed is mine. I saw the finished frame (bike) today. I am super happy with the result as are both Nick Crumpton and Dario Pegoretti.

Perhaps a bit of history is in order. Dario and Nick are both friends of mine. I believe I might have even been the one that introduced the one to the other. They both have great respect for one another's work.

The frame came to be following a discussion with Nick about vintage bikes from the 40's. The frame "order" was placed in early 2014 but was delayed for a while and the frame was only completed in the fall of 2015. Between 2014 and 2015, I had perhaps too much time to think over the paint scheme that I wanted for the frame and one day during a conversation with Dario, I mentioned what type of color scheme I was considering. Upon hearing my suggestion, he said that he thought I could do better. Upon hearing this, I jokingly said, "do you want to paint it for me?". To my surprise he immediately responded: "For one of Nick's frame, for you? Sure!" My first thought was pure gratitude, then it turned to terror that Nick might not agree. I then asked Nick and his response was: "I'd love to see what Dario could do with one of my frames." The scene was therefore set a little over a year ago.

My instructions to Dario were: do whatever you want as long as it is happy and sunny. I think that he has achieved what I requested. I'll post some photos of the complete bike, with matching painted stem, next week when I get home from Italy. I can assure you that money was never the driving force in getting this frame built and painted.

All three of us are completely pleased with the final result.

[Climb01742]

The Crumpton frame being discussed is mine. I saw the finished frame (bike) today. I am super happy with the result as are both Nick Crumpton and Dario Pegoretti.

Perhaps a bit of history is in order. Dario and Nick are both friends of mine. I believe I might have even been the one that introduced the one to the other. They both have great respect for one another's work.

The frame came to be following a discussion with Nick about vintage bikes from the 40's. The frame "order" was placed in early 2014 but was delayed for a while and the frame was only completed in the fall of 2015. Between 2014 and 2015, I had perhaps too much time to think over the paint scheme that I wanted for the frame and one day during a conversation with Dario, I mentioned what type of color scheme I was considering. Upon hearing my suggestion, he said that he thought I could do better. Upon hearing this, I jokingly said, "do you want to paint it for me?". To my surprise he immediately responded: "For one of Nick's frame, for you? Sure!" My first thought was pure gratitude, then it turned to terror that Nick might not agree. I then asked Nick and his response was: "I'd love to see what Dario could do with one of my frames." The scene was therefore set a little over a year ago.

My instructions to Dario were: do whatever you want as long as it is happy and sunny. I think that he has achieved what I requested. I'll post some photos of the complete bike, with matching painted stem, next week when I get home from Italy. I can assure you that money was never the driving force in getting this frame built and painted.

All three of us are completely pleased with the final result.

Very cool story! The final sentence of your post is the most important. The three of you are the opinions that matter most. Maybe the second most important sentence of your post is where you ask Dario for paint that was 'happy and sunny'. :)Depending on the base color, the final vibe can be quite far ranging. White base colors seem to have a great batting average for positive vibes. Enjoy!!

[David Kirk]

The Crumpton frame being discussed is mine. I saw the finished frame (bike) today. I am super happy with the result as are both Nick Crumpton and Dario Pegoretti.

Perhaps a bit of history is in order. Dario and Nick are both friends of mine. I believe I might have even been the one that introduced the one to the other. They both have great respect for one another's work.

The frame came to be following a discussion with Nick about vintage bikes from the 40's. The frame "order" was placed in early 2014 but was delayed for a while and the frame was only completed in the fall of 2015. Between 2014 and 2015, I had perhaps too much time to think over the paint scheme that I wanted for the frame and one day during a conversation with Dario, I mentioned what type of color scheme I was considering. Upon hearing my suggestion, he said that he thought I could do better. Upon hearing this, I jokingly said, "do you want to paint it for me?". To my surprise he immediately responded: "For one of Nick's frame, for you? Sure!" My first thought was pure gratitude, then it turned to terror that Nick might not agree. I then asked Nick and his response was: "I'd love to see what Dario could do with one of my frames." The scene was therefore set a little over a year ago.

My instructions to Dario were: do whatever you want as long as it is happy and sunny. I think that he has achieved what I requested. I'll post some photos of the complete bike, with matching painted stem, next week when I get home from Italy. I can assure you that money was never the driving force in getting this frame built and painted.

All three of us are completely pleased with the final result.

Nice ride - enjoy the work of two master craftsmen and artists.

dave

[Matthew]

I think that frame is awesome. And so cool it belongs to one of the members here. Great story behind how it came about. Thanks for sharing and enjoy that one of a kind beauty. Matt

[jlwdm]

Great story about how this all came about. No one badgering some one to do something - just three friends coming up with a special bike that they are all pleased with.

Makes a lot of the earlier negative posts look really foolish.

Congratulations.

Jeff

[Polyglot]

He told me he just wants to have some fun. I know it's not about the money.

dave

It certainly wasn't about the money, but for anybody visiting Dario, you are guaranteed to get a big smile and thanks if you bring a few pounds of trail mix.

;)

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

Nope, prefer a built-by-Dario than painted-by-Dario

This.

[jlwdm]

This.

Seems like a pretty inappropriate at this point.

Jeff

[happycampyer]

Seems like a pretty inappropriate at this point.

JeffNo, wait until round himself posts (although he hasn't here in some time).

As I mentioned ath, the frame reminds me of the V.S.O.P. quintet—masters getting together for a very special onetime performance.

[rounder]

I love my bikes but, by Pegoretti standards, they are all pretty much boring.

I saw a Pegoretti bike in a local shop about a year ago. The thing stood out. To me, whether he builds his own frames or paints somebody else's frames, is ok with me. I would be happy to have a bike either built or painted by Dario.

[Polyglot]

Here is built up bike. I figured that if I was going with carbon framed bike, I might as well also go with a carbon framed car too.

[54ny77]

Now THAT is a cool story.

A keeper frame/bike for life.

Enjoy!


The Crumpton frame being discussed is mine. I saw the finished frame (bike) today. I am super happy with the result as are both Nick Crumpton and Dario Pegoretti.

Perhaps a bit of history is in order. Dario and Nick are both friends of mine. I believe I might have even been the one that introduced the one to the other. They both have great respect for one another's work.

The frame came to be following a discussion with Nick about vintage bikes from the 40's. The frame "order" was placed in early 2014 but was delayed for a while and the frame was only completed in the fall of 2015. Between 2014 and 2015, I had perhaps too much time to think over the paint scheme that I wanted for the frame and one day during a conversation with Dario, I mentioned what type of color scheme I was considering. Upon hearing my suggestion, he said that he thought I could do better. Upon hearing this, I jokingly said, "do you want to paint it for me?". To my surprise he immediately responded: "For one of Nick's frame, for you? Sure!" My first thought was pure gratitude, then it turned to terror that Nick might not agree. I then asked Nick and his response was: "I'd love to see what Dario could do with one of my frames." The scene was therefore set a little over a year ago.

My instructions to Dario were: do whatever you want as long as it is happy and sunny. I think that he has achieved what I requested. I'll post some photos of the complete bike, with matching painted stem, next week when I get home from Italy. I can assure you that money was never the driving force in getting this frame built and painted.

All three of us are completely pleased with the final result.

[Polyglot]

The steer tube will be cut back a bit once I have dialed in the perfect stem height.

[ultraman6970]

This is just RAD!!!! Gotta have to get me a crumpton one day :/

[tv_vt]

Fun! Polyglot, you're a lucky guy to have those two as friends.

So... how's the ride?

And, clue me in here - what is the car?

[Waldo]

I've owned five Pegorettis and have been underwhelmed by four of them (two Marcelos, a Duende, and a Luigino -- yes. I own none of them now.) An early 1990s orange no-model-name with an aero down tube was the only one I regret letting go. So, I would go with a Pego-painted Crumpton.

[sandyrs]

Polyglot I like your taste in handlebars.

[Climb01742]

And, clue me in here - what is the car?

BMW electric.

[akelman]

Would you consider parting it out?

[ultraman6970]

Doubt steve will do it but if you like to have a derosa planet instead, let me know :P

[Polyglot]

Fun! Polyglot, you're a lucky guy to have those two as friends.

So... how's the ride?

And, clue me in here - what is the car?

I'd like to think that you earn friends. I know that Nick and Dario have earned my friendship. Hopefully I have earned theirs too.

The bike rides very nicely. I will admit that I needed a few rides to get the bars in an acceptable position and may require a little more dialing in. I initially set them at the same height and reach as my favorite bikes but the ramps on the levers are different from the other bikes and after riding 40 cm C/C bars for a lifetime I decided to try out some 42 cm C/C bars, this meant that the reach and drop changed by a few centimeters, so I have been playing around with saddle positioning and bar lever placement. Being a big fan of vintage bikes I was hoping to be able to say that I wasn't noticeably faster on the new bike but the truth is that it is faster on all the loops where I have comparative times.

I've owned five Pegorettis and have been underwhelmed by four of them (two Marcelos, a Duende, and a Luigino -- yes. I own none of them now.) An early 1990s orange no-model-name with an aero down tube was the only one I regret letting go. So, I would go with a Pego-painted Crumpton.

Wow! With so many different brands to purchase from, how could anybody buy 4 different bikes from one builder that they didn't like?

Polyglot I like your taste in handlebars.

The leather was stitched by another friend: https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=bopz

Would you consider parting it out?

Nothin from this bike is for sale

[Blown Reek]

I initially set them at the same height and reach as my favorite bikes but the ramps on the levers are different from the other bikes and after riding 40 cm C/C bars for a lifetime I decided to try out some 42 cm C/C bars, this meant that the reach and drop changed by a few centimeters

The difference in reach and drop between 40cm and 42cm bars within the same manufacturer is not in centimeters. Maybe millimeters, depending on the manufacturer. So you're millimeters off, potentially. Unless you went with a standard vs compact bar, that is.

[akelman]

Nothin from this bike is for sale

'Twas but a joke, my friend.

[Polyglot]

The difference in reach and drop between 40cm and 42cm bars within the same manufacturer is not in centimeters. Maybe millimeters, depending on the manufacturer. So you're millimeters off, potentially. Unless you went with a standard vs compact bar, that is.

You have not considered all the elements that have changed. The 2 cm width difference in the bars may indeed make only about half a centimeter difference in body height, but they are 2 cm wider and do result in what corresponds to a longer longer stem. Beyond this, the ramps on new brifters are a bit longer than on old brifters and quite a bit longer than old pre-ergo brake levers which I frequently ride. Combine the two and the ultimate location of the points of contact for the hands is moved forward (by more than 1 cm) and more widespread (the width is increased by 2 cm) with a resultant drop in the body and change in the center of gravity.

[Blown Reek]

Gotcha. Princess and the Pea.

[fuzzalow]

I've owned five Pegorettis and have been underwhelmed by four of them (two Marcelos, a Duende, and a Luigino -- yes. I own none of them now.) An early 1990s orange no-model-name with an aero down tube was the only one I regret letting go. So, I would go with a Pego-painted Crumpton.

Easy to screw up a good bike with a bad fit.

With a hit rate of only 1 outta 5, that might confirm the problem isn't with the bike but in your approach. But I applaud the seduction in continuing to buy them.