Gravel bike groups

[daker13]

Thinking about jumping on the train and building up a bike for the dirt... There are some good deals on group sets at the moment, and I was wondering, all things being equal, which of the following would be better: 105, Athena, or (maybe) Ultegra for a gravel bike (of either Campy or shimano).

I ran some searches and saw all kinds of variations. Might substitute cantis for tire clearance, but otherwise I'd want to stick with the group. $ is an issue, in which case 105 is the clear winner, but I'd pay a bit more if there's reason. And I run Campy on my road bike and love it.

Not sure about about the general mud-worthiness of the various groupsets. Again, I did some searches and it looks like people use all of them in the muck, so I thought gather some wisdom.

[unterhausen]

All City used to specify their Macho Macho Man disc with 105 for the most part. Looked good to me. Around here, gravel means climbing and descending, so being able to swing smaller gears makes a lot of sense. And if your gravel involves a lot of actual gravel, you will probably want bigger tires, in which case discs make sense. I was pretty happy with 30 mm tires except for washing out on deep gravel, which wasn't any fun.

YMMV, particularly if your road conditions are significantly different than ours. I see people generalizing a lot based on smooth dirt roads, and I'm pretty sure those people would suffer a lot of flats in Central Pennsylvania. I always wished these people would learn on their own rides, instead of early in the spring on our no-drop group rides that feature a lot of hungry bugs.

[joosttx]

I would suggest 105 or Ultegra. I like ultegra 6800 because the hoods are more ergonomic than the 105 or use to be. Be sure to get a long deraileur cage RD and a 11x32 cassette. I actually now run a 11x36 sram 1190 cassette with an ultegra gs Rd. its work very well.

I rode for a while a 6800 drive train with a 105 crank. It worked very well. And I did a 110 mile race that was so muddy I walked with 99% of the other racers for about 2 miles because the roads were slop. My components held up. A lot of guys destroyed their RD.

[PaMtbRider]

If your a Campy guy go for an Athena group. Athena has a long cage rear derailleur and works great with a Shimano 11-32 11 speed cassette. If you order individual parts from Ribble you can upgrade the shifters to Chorus if you want ultra shift instead of power shift. The money you save on an ultegra cassette over a Campy cassette will go a long way toward the shifter upgrade.

[sandyrs]

I would suggest 105 or Ultegra. I like ultegra 6800 because the hoods are more ergonomic than the 105 or use to be. Be sure to get a long deraileur cage RD and a 11x32 cassette. I actually now run a 11x36 sram 1190 cassette with an ultegra gs Rd. its work very well.

I rode for a while a 6800 drive train with a 105 crank. It worked very well. And I did a 110 mile race that was so muddy I walked with 99% of the other racers for about 2 miles because the roads were slop. My compenents held up. A lot of guys destroyed their RD.

I think the hoods this generation are the same shape. I really like 105 5800; probably the best value group out there. Ultegra's lighter and looks better on some bikes but having ridden both for thousands of miles I was hard-pressed to detect a real difference in performance.

[Hilltopperny]

I prefer the 105 triple for my gravel/adventure bike. I live in central ny where the roads are mixed at times and gravel roads typically have plenty of climbing and descents. I do run long reach brakes for more tire clearance. I would go campy if money wasn't an issue but 105 or ultegra are certainly capable.

[pdmtong]

I would suggest 105 or Ultegra. I like ultegra 6800 because the hoods are more ergonomic than the 105 or use to be. Be sure to get a long deraileur cage RD and a 11x32 cassette. I actually now run a 11x36 sram 1190 cassette with an ultegra gs Rd. its work very well.

I rode for a while a 6800 drive train with a 105 crank. It worked very well. And I did a 110 mile race that was so muddy I walked with 99% of the other racers for about 2 miles because the roads were slop. My components held up. A lot of guys destroyed their RD.

^ Listen to H

Unless the 'gravel" is a flat fire road, I have no idea why anyone would choose a campagnolo road group and it's limited gearing options for "gravel"

For pure road mechanical - yea, I am a campy guy. but for anything else (real dirt)(discs)(fat tires) it's not going to be campy.

[spinarelli]

I think some people choose a side and stick with it even if it goes against common sense. Also, you only have to buy one set of tools.

^ Listen to H

Unless the 'gravel" is a flat fire road, I have no idea why anyone would choose a campagnolo road group and it's limited gearing options for "gravel"

For pure road mechanical - yea, I am a campy guy. but for anything else (real dirt)(discs)(fat tires) it's not going to be campy.

[pdmtong]

I think some people choose a side and stick with it even if it goes against common sense. Also, you only have to buy one set of tools.

well said. it's the same kind of thinking that leads to people buying sidi dominators because they use sidi genius 5 on the road.

[GregL]

I suggest 105 5800 in silver finish. It is reputedly durable, (relatively) inexpensive, and the silver finish will continue to look good even after rock chips take their toll. I have 105 5600 on my gravel bike. It has held up so well that even though it would be nice to upgrade, I just can't justify a change.

- Greg

[Duende]

I think some people choose a side and stick with it even if it goes against common sense. Also, you only have to buy one set of tools.

You are so right. And unfortunately I'm one of those folks!:eek:

Just don't like the Shimano shifters. The ergonomics and the shifting motion just do not agree with my hands.

But mechanically speaking Shimano is great, I've got nothing against it. (although I would say campy road brakes are much better)

I'm hoping someone comes out with a smaller chainring set for the 4 arm 2015 campy cranks!

Here's the outer...

http://specialites-ta.com/x145-chainring.html

just need a smaller inner now...

[RonW87]

Unless you're set on 11 speed, consider veloce. I'm not sure why there are criticisms of campy above. Run a 34/29 and you're good for just about anything.

[PaMtbRider]

^ Listen to H

Unless the 'gravel" is a flat fire road, I have no idea why anyone would choose a campagnolo road group and it's limited gearing options for "gravel"

For pure road mechanical - yea, I am a campy guy. but for anything else (real dirt)(discs)(fat tires) it's not going to be campy.

My campagnolo gravel bike has 46/36 11-32 gearing. I have a 34 inner chain ring that I've never used but got it as an option. If 34 / 32 gearing isn't low enough for a gravel road you might as well get off and walk.

[joosttx]

My campagnolo gravel bike has 46/36 11-32 gearing. I have a 34 inner chain ring that I've never used but got it as an option. If 34 / 32 gearing isn't low enough for a gravel road you might as well get off and walk.

The issue I would have with this setup is the you dont have enough gears for the road. My gravel bike is also a paved road bike. So I try and get the widest gearing option available without getting too crazy. This for me means 50/34 compact with a 11/36 in back currently. I have done a mid compact 52/36 with a 11/32 and 50/34 with 11/28 or 11/32. With all configurations i had plenty of gearing to jam it road riding. If you dont road ride with your bike then your gearing configuration is awesome. In full disclosure my other bike, a C60 road bike has campy on it. Also some of the gravel roads in my area are more light mountain bike trails.

[Clancy]

I built my Gunnar Hyper X with SRAM force, and Avid BB-7 brakes. I currently have a X9 rear derailleur with a 12-36 on the back. I was using it for some crazy climbs.

I also ride it with a 11-28 cassette and a Force rear derailleur. Easy to swap back and forth.

That's why I went with SRAM, can use either road or Mtb rear derailleur with road shifters.

I have been thinking about converting to SRAM 1x set up and hydro brakes, but then I ride it and it works just perfect. If I rode my gravel bike 4-5 times a week like my road bike, then maybe I'd put that much money into it. But for the occasional go bomb gravel roads ride, my current set-up works great, bulletproof, inexpensive, and I have a lot of gearing choices.

[Clancy]

But, to answer your original question, I'd buy the 105 over the Ultegra and use the money I save to put into the wheelset. Buying the best wheelset that runs a wide rim, is stout, will take a beating, and be as light as possible - that's where I'd put my money. But what wheelset....that's another question.

[pdmtong]

The issue I would have with this setup is the you dont have enough gears for the road. My gravel bike is also a paved road bike. So I try and get the widest gearing option available without getting too crazy. This for me means 50/34 compact with a 11/36 in back currently. I have done a mid compact 52/36 with a 11/32 and 50/34 with 11/28 or 11/32. With all configurations i had plenty of gearing to jam it road riding. If you dont road ride with your bike then your gearing configuration is awesome. In full disclosure my other bike, a C60 road bike has campy on it. Also some of the gravel roads in my area are more light mountain bike trails.

truth this.
chicken dinner!

[bismo37]

I have Athena 11 (50/34 X 12-29t) on my gravel bike with Paul Racer brakeset giving me more tire clearance. Athena held up very well in the wet and muddy PNW.

However, I'm switching out my rear gearing to have a Shimano cassette with 32t cog. The 34 X 29t works well on most dirt/gravel but on steeper pitches or longer offroad climbs, I think a bailout gear may help keep me moving rather than killing my legs to keep momentum. (Glad to read above that a 32t plays nice with an Athena RD!)

So...agreeing with the above posters: I'd go for the lower cost of the 105 group (which works every bit as well as Athena and has wider gearing options). Save the extra cash for a better wheelset.

Also consider brake lever pull on Shimano vs Athena. Not sure if there is a big difference, but I used to used Ultegra shifters with the Paul Racers and never noticed a braking prob. With the Athena levers, I feel I have to take a bigger handful of brake lever to slow down. This may be a bigger issue of you are going with disc brakesets.

[oldpotatoe]

^ Listen to H

Unless the 'gravel" is a flat fire road, I have no idea why anyone would choose a campagnolo road group and it's limited gearing options for "gravel"

For pure road mechanical - yea, I am a campy guy. but for anything else (real dirt)(discs)(fat tires) it's not going to be campy.

I have an idea..

I ride a lot of dirt/gravel roads around the republic and like MTBs, gearing is a personal choice. I think a compact(34t) and a 29 or 30t is great for around here. I have a 50-36/12-27 and seldom find myself in a 36/27. Not sure of of automatically saying one needs a 32/34/36t rear cog, IMHO.

Besides, as has been mentioned, long cage Veloce or Athena rear der and one of those big cogsets..

[shovelhd]

I have Ultegra 6870 Di2, 34/46, 11-32.

[PaMtbRider]

The issue I would have with this setup is the you dont have enough gears for the road.

Agreed. A 46 x 11 is a little short for a road bike. But that has nothing to do with picking shimano over campy for gravel gearing. Use a compact 50/34 crankset. If a 34/32 isn't low enough gearing I doubt you are spinning out a 50/11. If you are building a monster cross/gravel bike to ride on mountain bike trails I can see the need for wider gearing than campy would accommodate.

BTW, I am not a campy snob or shimano hater. I have Ultegra 6800 on one of my bikes and like it. My wife has 6800, 6800 Di2, and 9000 on her bikes. For the comment "I have no idea why anyone would choose campy..." you are exaggerating your preferences or are obtuse. I'm just glad we all agree that SRAM sucks :D

[Clancy]

Agreed. A 46 x 11 is a little short for a road bike. But that has nothing to do with picking shimano over campy for gravel gearing. Use a compact 50/34 crankset. If a 34/32 isn't low enough gearing I doubt you are spinning out a 50/11. If you are building a monster cross/gravel bike to ride on mountain bike trails I can see the need for wider gearing than campy would accommodate.

BTW, I am not a campy snob or shimano hater. I have Ultegra 6800 on one of my bikes and like it. My wife has 6800, 6800 Di2, and 9000 on her bikes. For the comment "I have no idea why anyone would choose campy..." you are exaggerating your preferences or are obtuse. I'm just glad we all agree that SRAM sucks :D

No, no, no. Some of you poorly informed guys agree amongst your poorly informed selves that SRAM sucks.

Me, I like it just fine!

[oldpotatoe]

Agreed. A 46 x 11 is a little short for a road bike. But that has nothing to do with picking shimano over campy for gravel gearing. Use a compact 50/34 crankset. If a 34/32 isn't low enough gearing I doubt you are spinning out a 50/11. If you are building a monster cross/gravel bike to ride on mountain bike trails I can see the need for wider gearing than campy would accommodate.

BTW, I am not a campy snob or shimano hater. I have Ultegra 6800 on one of my bikes and like it. My wife has 6800, 6800 Di2, and 9000 on her bikes. For the comment "I have no idea why anyone would choose campy..." you are exaggerating your preferences or are obtuse. I'm just glad we all agree that SRAM sucks :D

Had the pleasure to reconnect with 4 pros(tri-guys but genuine pros) and a pro cyclist, recently retired..and interestingly, they all are/were sponsored by sram, now all sponsored by shimano and they all had the same opinion of cram stuff...

yes, yes, I am trolling but that article really frosted me. tried to send an email to sram but it seems they don't exist..guess a email box isn't big enough..

[AngryScientist]

i use friction downtube shifters and a mi-cage RD. the world is my oyster. i can run basically any gearing i want out back. works great for my needs.

[Lionel]

In full disclosure my other bike, a C60 road bike has campy on it.

Thank god.

[joosttx]

Thank god.

Etap is moments away.

[sandyrs]

If a 34/32 isn't low enough gearing I doubt you are spinning out a 50/11. If you are building a monster cross/gravel bike to ride on mountain bike trails I can see the need for wider gearing than campy would accommodate.


Sure, one might want a 34/36 because they're a weak rider, but just as likely is that they want the 34/36 for extremely steep terrain, and are plenty strong enough to push a 50/11 on descents and in pacelines frequently enough to want one.

[unterhausen]

I have never been able to stand on our gravel roads here, so lower gearing is somewhat required for me. Right now my gravel bike has a mtb double on it that has a 28 42 chainrings. And I run an 11 32 cassette. With that chain ring, I could probably go tighter on the rear, but sometimes I do long rides featuring gravel, and the 28/32 has definitely been in play. I have ridden compact 34 chainring with a 32 on the rear, but there are definitely times when it is a struggle. I'm not afraid to walk a really steep hill, but we have some long steep hills and I find walking to be more difficult. If I wanted to go compact, my SRAM rear derailleur will take a 36, and that would probably be good enough.

[Lovetoclimb]

105 (5800) shifters, derailleurs
Ultegra (6800) crank, cassette, and chain

Depending on terrain you plan on using, I would get a 36/46 crankset, consider swapping the 36t for a 34t chainring, and pair that with an 11-32 cassette and GS long cage rear der.

Of course with that new Tanpan from LindaretsxWolftooth you could now use a SRAM or Shimano MTB cassette and XT (M7000) rear der. and have crazy low gearing

[Duende]

I have never been able to stand on our gravel roads here, so lower gearing is somewhat required for me. Right now my gravel bike has a mtb double on it that has a 28 42 chainrings. And I run an 11 32 cassette. With that chain ring, I could probably go tighter on the rear, but sometimes I do long rides featuring gravel, and the 28/32 has definitely been in play. I have ridden compact 34 chainring with a 32 on the rear, but there are definitely times when it is a struggle. I'm not afraid to walk a really steep hill, but we have some long steep hills and I find walking to be more difficult. If I wanted to go compact, my SRAM rear derailleur will take a 36, and that would probably be good enough.

Sounds like the Eroica ride here! Dirt was so loose on steep climbs you had to get out of the saddle, but have your weight on the rear wheel. Tiring and tricky.

[joosttx]

This is a cool thread as it shows that there is no defined gearing for a gravel bike.

[mistermo]

I've used Campy 10s with 46-34 with a SRAM 11-32 cassette and no issues. Lennard Zinn told me I could.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2008/03/bikes-and-tech/can-you-run-campy-shifters-with-a-sram-drivetrain-sure-why-not_73404

[AngryScientist]

This is a cool thread as it shows that there is no defined gearing for a gravel bike.

:beer:

[Pastashop]

Gear freaks rejoice:

http://d4nuk0dd6nrma.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Fig4.jpg

[GRAVELBIKE]

I run SRAM 1x11 on my gravel/commuter rig. Cassette is SRAM's 10-42t, but I'm considering switching to a SunRace 11-40 unit. For chainrings, I've used everything from 38-44t (always N/W), but currently have an absoluteBLACK oval 40t ring in service. Brakes are SRAM road hydraulic discs and I favor 700x40 tires.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1649/24854755724_cd8bfae496_n.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/DSk7X7)

Disclaimer: I did not pay for any of the above parts/components.

[Ronsonic]

I'm in Florida and our climbing is dictated by the poise angle of sand. The grades are either short and steep or long and gradual. False flat is the natural state of the terrain.

Even though I ride trails a lot I'm a bit boggled by the gear combinations I'm reading about here. Another world. As for Campy, why not. It's reliable, ergonomically friendly and works beautifully on or off road. It doesn't lend itself to pie plate size cogs in the back, but a lot of people don't need that. If I did, then there are some very functional Shimergo options I'd look into.