OT: Happier than Happy

[firerescuefin]

Heard a sports radio talk show host talk about the above subject some time ago on his show. His basic premise was that many people in life get to a position where they are genuinely happy with their situation, but overreach, trying to be happier, and take a step back....often a significant step back. The segment really resonated with me, and I filed it away in my memory.

I was offered a position yesterday that I never thought I would be offered in my career. In fact, I wrote it off a few years ago, not because I did not believe I'd be good at it (I think I'd kill it), nor because I was not qualified, but because I believed that the position was designed for someone who was willing to play the political game to get there and stay there, and that seemed disingenuous, distasteful, and just not my style. Once I made that decision (years ago), it actually was quite freeing, and my peers (over time) realized that I was purely focused on my job and being a teammate, not vying for the next promotion. The fire chief position opened and I was asked to apply. I did not. A board was held for the position and both internal and external candidates were brought in and vetted. In fact, an external candidate that I recommended made it to the final set of interviews.

A week ago, a very senior manager/official asked me to grab a cup of coffee. I was actually a little alarmed that I was contacted, because he is not in my normal orbit of professional folks. After a long conversation about life, kids, etc. , we segwayed to the workplace and my organization. It was not an interview, but he asked honest questions, and I gave honest answers. The meeting came to an end, and I went on with my life.

3 days ago, we crossed paths at an event, and he asked if I had a minute. He told me he enjoyed our conversation, and asked me if I wanted the job...just like that. I was a touch speechless, and told him I'm not used to getting asked to take a position that I did not apply for. He laughed and gave me through the weekend to think it over. He called me last night and reiterated that he thought I was "the guy". I asked him quite a myriad of ultra honest/direct questions and he did not bat an eye in answering them all directly and honestly. I was actually kind of hoping he would try to skirt around them, and make my decision to turn the job down very easy.

At the end of the day, this opportunity is not going to present itself again. But, I am genuinely happy in my life. My current position allows me to leave work and essentially forget about it. There is no reason to believe that as long as I continue to perform in my current role (and I've been a high performer) that I couldn't continue in the role for as long as I'd like. In my new position I'd have good folks working for me, and there is tons of room for improvement within the organization. Setting the tone for both performance as well as taking care of people/ creating a healthy work environment/culture is very appealing to me.....but with 3 young boys, I really enjoy the simplicity of my current life and schedule. I work to live. Once I take this position, there is no going back....ever. Just the way it is.

Back to my original premise, trying to be happier than happy. Feel like I'm there and I don't want to take a step forward to take a bigger one back. At the same time, I know my motives (professionally)....and do believe that I'd be a perfect fit for the job, and that there would be genuine fulfillment in that.

Thoughts.....experiences?

[AngryScientist]

At the end of the day, this opportunity is not going to present itself again.

Don't be so certain about that! you're young, you never know what's going to come down the road.

more thoughts to follow, but thats the bit that jumped out at me right away.

[soulspinner]

Heard a sports radio talk show host talk about the above subject some time ago on his show. His basic premise was that many people in life get to a position where they are genuinely happy with their situation, but overreach, trying to be happier, and take a step back....often a significant step back. The segment really resonated with me, and I filed it away in my memory.

I was offered a position yesterday that I never thought I would be offered in my career. In fact, I wrote it off a few years ago, not because I did not believe I'd be good at it (I think I'd kill it), nor because I was not qualified, but because I believed that the position was designed for someone who was willing to play the political game to get there and stay there, and that seemed disingenuous, distasteful, and just not my style. Once I made that decision (years ago), it actually was quite freeing, and my peers (over time) realized that I was purely focused on my job and being a teammate, not vying for the next promotion. The fire chief position opened and I was asked to apply. I did not. A board was held for the position and both internal and external candidates were brought in and vetted. In fact, an external candidate that I recommended made it to the final set of interviews.

A week days ago, a very senior manager/official asked me to grab a cup of coffee. I was actually a little alarmed that I was contacted, because he is not in my normal orbit of professional folks. After a long conversation about life, kids, etc. , we segwayed to the workplace and my organization. It was not an interview, but he asked honest questions, and I gave honest answers. The meeting came to an end, and I went on with my life.

3 days ago, we crossed paths at an event, and he asked if I had a minute. He told me he enjoyed our conversation, and asked me if I wanted the job...just like that. I was a touch speechless, and told him I'm not used to getting asked to take a position that I did not apply for. He laughed and gave me through the weekend to think it over. He called me last night and reiterated that he thought I was "the guy". I asked him quite a myriad of ultra honest/direct questions and he did not bat an eye in answering them all directly and honestly. I was actually kind of hoping he would try to skirt around them, and make my decision to turn the job down very easy.

At the end of the day, this opportunity is not going to present itself again. But, I am genuinely happy in my life. My current position allows me to leave work and essentially forget about it. There is no reason to believe that as long as I continue to perform in my current role (and I've been a high performer) that I could continue in the role for as long as I'd like. In my new position I'd have good folks working for me, and there is tons of room for improvement within the organization. Setting the tone for both performance as well as taking care of people/ creating a healthy work environment/culture is very appealing to me.....but with 3 young boys, I really enjoy the simplicity of my current life and schedule. I work to live. Once I take this position, there is no going back....ever. Just the way it is.

Back to my original premise, trying to be happier than happy. Feel like I'm there and I don't want to take a step forward to take a bigger one back. At the same time, I know my motives (professionally)....and do believe that I'd be a perfect fit for the job, and that there would be genuine fulfillment in that.

Thoughts.....experiences?

Two. One is the guy that offered you the job is golden. Second, whether you take this job or not remember you earned this by being you. Chapeau.:hello:

[eddief]

You said you are happy and you work to live. You mentioned a bunch of stuff about work life balance and it sounds like you have that perfect right now. I wonder the degree to which your current work fulfills your intrinsic values quotient. Working to live can make for some very long hours to get to your outside life. Sounds like you are really good at what you do (what do you do for work?). If you are good at it and have the right 'tude, then there will always be another job out in the world for you. I'd say wait until you are ready for a change and then go get it. Sounds like now is not your time.

[stephenmarklay]

For me its a mostly a question of ego. Don’t get me wrong I have been in the same position not a question of happiness. Being the Manager of people has an alure all its own. Having people look to you to make the decisions etc is an ego trip that many people thrive on. I don’t think it is a bad thing and I don’t want to try and cast it as negative. I have done it and I am naturally am like that.

Having said that, I sell real estate for a living and my wife is a mortgage lender. We both make and have the potential to make a fantastic living while spending a lot of time with the kids and other activities. I spent a couple of years recently as GM at a powersports dealership and while I learned a lot and did some good my overall life was not what it is today.

[christian]

The fact they approached you unbidden speaks to their insight about your particular contributions to the workplace and a vision about what your workplace needs in a leader. And you have already identified significant opportunities for improvement and think you'd be good at the job.

You are a high performer, so job offers and promotions will always come along. But opportunities that combine the two attributes above are probably pretty rare. Good luck in your decision and hats off.

And, btw, I will admit I don't put much stock in the "overreaching for happiness" bit. People who have more than the necessities mostly make their own weather. Life is a series of choices and you try to make the best ones with the information you have at the time. And then you decide to be happy with the outcomes. Or not.

[makoti]

This sounds fantastic! No matter what you decide, congratulations on the offer.
Now, my worthless opinion...you say you think you'd be great in the job & you want it. You also say that you didn't want to do all the ass kissing needed to get it. You didn't. And still it's there for the taking. Sounds like you got there the right way for your peace of mind and someone else really thinks you're the right person.
You're happy now. Who's to say that this move would leave you just as happy? Not MORE happy, just as happy.
Look at the effect it will have on your life, your family, yourself. Will it take from all that or add to them? You'll have your answer.
I think that quote is saying "don't think having more will make you happier". You clearly don't. So, I wouldn't worry about that.

[oldpotatoe]

Remember, it's lonely at the top..:)

And when I was sitting in the 'big chair', your schedule is not yours any longer. Always 'on duty'...

[jr59]

I have zero good advise for you my friend. I know you will do what is best for you and yours. To say that I am happy for you would be a understatement.

Let us all know what ever you decide.


P.S. good advise on here on both sides!

[Cornfed]

As the saying goes, better "Oh, well" than "What if".

Jobs are never permanent. Try it and see how it goes.

Whatever you decide, you should feel good that he wants to hire you for you.

[Ti Designs]

I often think about the next step in my coaching business, and it involves leasing a retail space and having business hours, to say nothing of the responsibilities and expenses. I'll admit, it's a step I'm going to have to take, but right now I get paid to ride with people - it's a damn good gig if you can get it! But wait, it gets better (sounding like a Ginsu commercial now), I'm creating riding partners, and if I do my job right, they'll take me on their cycling vacations. Life is good...

meanwhile, back at the shop... There's a constant battle in the bike shop, everyone knows everything about the bike industry, and everyone wants to take over every department and every decision. I just want to work with clients on fitting and riding - that's what I do, but at some point I have to defend what I do from the people who would change it.

[Climb01742]

One reason to take, or not take the job, would be the answer to this question:

If you took the job, could you, by how you did the job, make things better for others and possibly create lasting change? And does that appeal to you?

In my experience, jobs have two sides: what the job is like for me, and what the job allows me to do/impact for others.

Being focused on the former is in no way bad or lesser. In many ways it's simpler and does often permit you to form clearer, stronger boundaries between work and life. The latter is almost always harder, more frustrating during the process, but can be, in the end, very rewarding.

Again, no value judgement between the two. Just different. Which appeals more?

[1centaur]

Feel free to take another few days. They want you, they will wait.

Do you still believe you would need to do distasteful political things to stay in the new position? Those were the only words in your OP that suggest a block to continued happiness.

How important is change/growth in the happiness you have experienced thus far in life? Some people are very happy never changing, some really need change to stay interested and therefore happy. Know yourself.

Bottom line: would you be happy in the new job? Accept it would be a different kind of happy, but it does not need to be happier, it can just be a different version of the same level of happy. If you assume for the sake of self argument you will be equally happy day to day, project your true self forward to retirement and look back. Happier to contemplate having done what you are doing or happier to think you did what you are being offered?

And try very hard not to mix the pleasure of being wanted with the pleasure of the job. The former has nothing to do with the latter.

[fuzzalow]

Good for you on consideration and opportunity well deserved.

There will always be the presentation of very good positions which are a function in level setting commensurate to your professional skills and character. That part of it is consistent to who you are and is earned. As such, other opportunities are likely to emerge. But the timing will not. And only you can judge the value of that step taken, or not, at this point in your life.

There is no such thing as a perfect job. Any position of note and responsibility will have demands, pitfalls and compromises inherent to jobs possessing note and responsibility. Nothing is truly as it seems and everything will extract a price - you won't really know until you do the job. Not intended as cynicism but as a simple reality check.

I would not weigh my family life as heavily as you do in evaluating a job. Not because I don't value family life but because I believe I will find a way to have both after working the job. Quality time over quantity time and time can always be found if you press hard enough. Most people running at half speed flatter themselves at how busy they think they are but IMO the people that understand time value don't fuss, they just do. In order for this to work, this attitude of "time professionalism" must be an approach and a skillset developed and shared by both yourself and your spouse.

I don't know how old you are but IMO you gotta take risks when you are young. I don't believe in the overreach and half step back, and certainly not at an early stage of anyone's career who possesses any talent of note. Laughable. Advice dispersed on on radio show is targeted at the masses - which is a big chunk left of the curve and not applicable to you.

[pbarry]

Geoff, big props for being offered the opportunity! :hello:

I'm sure you have already, but talk to your wife and discuss the impact the new position will have on your time and availability at home.

You are at an ideal age to take this on, and the financial benefits could go a long way to provide additional security for your family and your retirement.

You want this, right? It's OK to want more personal fulfillment. Take that brass ring and run with it. :beer:

[OtayBW]

I say good on you as well, but I have NO ADVICE FOR YOU. It's one of those things where the level of subtlety and detail is beyond any of us here to appreciate.

However, I can appreciate what your thinking must be like as I had a similar experience last year when I changed jobs under similar circumstances. I took the job, but I now deal with the trade-offs - both positive and negative.

I guess just be glad to have the opportunity. I'd say in the end, weigh the facts, and then put them away for a while and see what percolates to the top. That tends to be the decision that you will live with easiest over time...or, as Joseph Campbell would say: 'Follow your Bliss".

GL. :hello:

[Tickdoc]

good on you! You are just that damn good, and that means a lot, regardless of which choice you make. Sounds like a win win either way.

Which one offers more riding opportunities:D

[FlashUNC]

A job you think you'd be good at, a step up the food chain, and senior mgmt that believes you're the one for the job even after interviewing a lot of other folks, to the point that they're seeking you out.

If you're still young, now's the time to take those chances. And this doesn't necessarily seem like a chance, but a natural evolution in your career. You're not changing industries, or changing organizations or any of that. You can figure out the home stuff. If your superiors know that about you -- which I'm sure they do if you're headed out for the kiddos Little League games or whatever -- then them offering the position to you is an affirmation of your choices rather than a criticism.

Ye Gods man, that's the dream.

[eddief]

and if negotiation is an option, upfront right now is the time to do it. Maybe if you are clear about WHAT YOU WANT, then maybe if it is meant to be, it is meant to be based on equal terms...not just theirs. They might love you even more if they know you know how to have this type of conversation.

[Elefantino]

Depends on many things, such as age, $ needs, etc. No thoughts to add there.

AFA experiences, I have to say that once I gave up reaching for the brass ring I finally caught it. Just not in the way I'd always imagined.

[Ray]

First off, congratulations. At the very least this is a huge confirmation of your value to the organization and it's VERY nice to know others think so highly of you. But I like your instinct and questioning.

I was faced with a pretty similar situation a couple of times in my career. I'd advanced as far as I could short of jumping from doing the work to managing others who did it. I was managing others in a number of respects anyway - I was a project manager who oversaw teams of people working on a project and coordinated all of the various activities, but I was also DOING the project and got to make all of the tough calls in consultation with my teams. I was still IN IT at the granular level that I wouldn't have been had I moved up. I'd have only been viewing it from 30,000 feet where in the positions I had I got to view it from 30,000 AND still have my fingers in the soil. I also had responsibility for overseeing everything that a variety of others did within a certain geographic area, so I essentially managed that area and coordinated everything that happened within it. So I was a manager but I was also still a worker.

Two times in two different organizations, I'd reached this point and was asked to consider moving up into management, where I'd have been overseeing people like me, but not actually doing the work. I don't have ANY idea if I'd have been good at that type of managing or not, but I knew it didn't seem appealing to me. The money wasn't that much better, the hours might have actually been a bit easier, but I really dug what I was doing, I was damn good at it, I had a work/life balance I was happy with, and I was kind of operating at a peak level for what I did. Both times I decided not to mess with what was working. I figured if it came up again, I'd consider it again. It came up twice and I decided against it both times. There's always a little bit of wondering what would have happened if I'd done it, but I've never regretted my decision(s).

I'm retired now and look back fondly on my career, but the further it fades into the background, the less important it seems. I worked to live, not vice versa, and I've lived well. I'm satisfied that I was a competent and conscientious professional who did my work well and provided a good service for my clients and my employers. But now I think about my family a lot, and my old career barely at all.

Which is not to say you shouldn't take this opportunity - just that you should follow your gut and if it tells you to stay put, don't worry that there's something wrong with not taking "the next step". Obviously, if that step feel right in your gut, go for it - but don't feel like it's the only option because moving forward always seems like the obvious next step. It's gotta work for you. Maybe it'll come along again when your kids are grown and work/life balance is a little easier and you'd have a different answer. Maybe it won't. Just trust your gut - it's usually right...

Good luck,

-Ray

[54ny77]

Ask for a custom bike as signing bonus.

[MattTuck]

Geoff, congrats man.

I don't mean to read between the lines, but it sounds like you have some OTHER reservations about this position and are looking to us to try to dissuade you from it. Is there something that is making you nervous about this position aside from the encroachment on your work/life balance?

I heard from someone that I really respect once, to always say 'yes' when asked about new opportunities. He had a very interesting and exciting career. On the other hand, that is not what all people are looking for out of life.

In your case, if you are truly not sure of the right thing to do, maybe you take the job as the 'interim' boss. Publicly, you can say you're there to hold down the fort until a permanent replacement is found. Behind the scenes, you can be testing whether it is something you really want to be doing long term. If it is, after 6 months, you take the 'interim' off your title and move forward. If it isn't for you, you talk to the folks in charge and let them know why it's not working.

[sloar]

Big question, are you going to miss being on the floor with the guys? And are you going to miss being on the trucks? I'm a shift Captain and thats the farthest I want to go. I was asked to be the AC and turned it down, I don't belong behind a desk, and I enjoy 24 hour shifts and the days off. But if its something you really want to do, go for it and good luck.

[SoCalSteve]

I'm 57 years old and recently retired after 35 years in the same industry. In those 35 years, I have done pretty much everything from pure labor jobs to be in charge of an entire department ( big responsibility) and lots of jobs in between.

Every job has its upsides and downsides. Being able to leave a job and not have to think about it is great, but if you have the drive to move up in your organization then management is where it's at.

At the end of the day, you have to decide what's most important to you. I think you know. You just needed confirmation. I never had children, but from working with many people who have, they say some of the biggest regrets they have had in life is not being present enough for their children. That they took a back seat to their careers.

PM me if you'd like to further this discussion ( with someone with a bit of life-work experience ).

Again, I think in your own mind you have already decided. Good luck.

[Ed-B]

Opportunities like this always stimulate my creative thought process. Based on what you've written, it's seems that you're thinking about what changes you'd try to make, and how you'd improve the organization. You're experience gives you a good understanding of how things work, and what could be better. This is your chance to put these ideas into practice.

If you decline this position there will be someone else found to fill it. That person may not have your depth of understanding. Which is not to say that they won't bring their own experience, ideas, and methodologies. But it won't be your plan unless the new chief relies on you for critical input. And who knows who it will be or how it will go.

It could be very frustrating working under a new chief when you know you'd be good in that position yourself.

Not an easy decision, but growth opportunities should be challenging.

Best of luck, whatever you decide.

[rain dogs]

Congrats!

Maybe I'm too simple, but if it were me I'd know these two things:

1. If I don't take the job (Fire Chief, right?) I know I will still be very, very happy.

2. The new position will have it's own unique demands that I am not currently doing. THOSE are the demands I am being asked to be challenged by and motivated to learn, teach, master and not what I am currently very good at. So, if I'm not hungry for those unique challenges - not all the shared roles I am currently happy with - but the new ones, leading, managing whatever it may be - then I will be much less happy.

I don't know if the 10,000 hours thing is accurate or not, but I know it takes a lot of time, effort and determination to master our daily tasks - if you're not damn passionate about those tasks, those become tiring, and what you push away from vs pull toward.

So, are you hungry to be THIS role. Full gas? You want to be in that position? Only you know that. You didn't apply did you?

(BTW, I wouldn't subscribe the above thinking if said individual didn't express a strong sense of happiness in his current position now and going forward.)

I can tell you that personally one of the biggest struggles of my life is finding out that amongst the many, many many roles I have being a small business owner is that I am not good at all of them, some I don't care, but what really is hard, is not being good at the smaller roles that I really wish I was good at - they are ones I thought I would naturally be good at. That's very hard for me. But ultimately, I'm just not that passionate about them, and maybe that's why.

[lzuk]

You will regret not taking the position. You can always go back to your former position.

[weisan]

It's damn hard to be a true leader especially at that level. Past accomplishments do not guarantee future success. You will be tested every day. Happiness is not the right metric but suffering with your people is. Are you willing to do that?

I would purge all the "nice" thoughts and take a very sober attitude before I make the final decision.

[firerescuefin]

First off...wanted to thank everyone for their responses. Lots of wisdom in there...and a few really resonated (both on the plus and minus side). I am in between kids sports games but will weigh back in here later.

[notsew]

I'll share my recent experience, its a bit different, but revolved around making time for family.

Like you, I work in municipal government. For the last three years I worked for a large city in a subsection of the Mayor's Office. I loved my job and was really good at it, but I lived two hours away. I spent 4 hours a day commuting, for a variety of reasons, moving closer wasn't on the table. My director told me on multiple occasions that I was on track to move up quickly.

Last fall a job opened where I live. It involved less power, less responsibility, less opportunity for advancement and less money. But I have a 2 year old son and with the commute, there were a lot of days where I didn't get to see him at all. It was no big deal when he was a baby, but it was getting harder. After a lot of thought I took the job nearer to home. I've had many regrets over the last few months. Its hard not to be defined by what you do and assess your value by what you are paid.

I'm pretty sure I would make the same decision again. Its great to see my kid everyday and ride my bike to work. But I'm also pretty sure the decision radically changed the trajectory of my career and that bums me out when I dwell on it too much (and think about my pension pay out). On the other hand, I've got like 25 more years before they let me retire, so other opportunities are sure to arise. I don't know where you are in your career, but for me, this seems like the time to spend time with my family.

In my previous career, I once had a guy trying to convince me to take a job. He'd been a CEO of some pretty big companies and had purchased a small boat charter/repair company as a retirement project (I was a boat mechanic with a masters degree trying to find work in my field and he wanted me to stay a mechanic for him). He told me that he had spent his career chasing the brass ring. His son, influenced by the fact that his father was never around, worked in middle management, turned down promotions and coached his kid's softball team. The ex-CEO felt his son was doing it better. He said no one ever regrets not spending more time at work; they regret not seeing their kids grow up. I moved on from being a mechanic, but I think about that a lot. He saw the whole picture and felt he'd let his kids down.

Anyways, this has turned out to mostly just be cathartic for me. So thanks. You need to do whats best for you and I hope this is helpful in some way. I really think I could go either way in your situation. Cheers.

[akelman]

For what it's worth, Geoff, I hope you're taking some time to savor the hard-earned good news. Not that that has anything whatsoever to do with whether you should take the job, about which I have thoughts, but none worth sharing.

I will say this, though: you're precisely the sort of person I've always enjoyed working for. You're honest, even when honesty isn't expedient. You have integrity and core values. You care about other people. You're pluralistic in the best sense of the word. And you've overcome some difficult circumstances to get where you are.

Does that mean you need to move into this kind of management position? Nope. But it does mean that I bet you'll succeed if you do.

[nm87710]

Good Luck

[paredown]

I'm a newb here (and don't know the OP or any of you guys personally) but I do have a couple of thoughts--one positive, one negative.

The negative--and this is based on my sister's experience when she passed up a promotion and rued the day--what if the alternative to you in the chief's job is (in a word) an idiot, and makes your current role much less pleasant?

The positive--based on the decision to leave a comfortable situation as a couple when my wife was offered a real stretch opportunity in her career to move overseas--don't be afraid to give up the good for the potentially great.

It really is the 'garden of the forking paths' and we simply don't know where a current decision leads us, but I think (on balance) challenge and growth is a good thing. And as others have said, you could try it, an step back (I assume) if it is not to your liking.

[shovelhd]

I've been in your situation five times in my career, and took the offer three times. The other two were situations where it would not work out best for the family. That said, two weeks ago I was employed, this week I am not. The point being, things change. Things happen that that are out of your control. This situation is in your control. Only you know what's best for you and your family, but if this is something you aspire to be, trying it out could pay dividends in the future.

If you think you are a good fit and will do well in this position, I'd encourage you to try it. Work/life balance never stays the same, it's always changing, so it doesn't make sense to make it a show stopper until you understand what it's really going to mean. If you try it and it's not what you imagined, you can work out an exit strategy after giving it your all. I disagree with you that once you're in, you're in. Many people step down from supervisory positions to become individual contributors. Good management allows this to happen.

Good luck whatever you decide, and congrats on becoming the chosen one.

[SlackMan]

...Back to my original premise, trying to be happier than happy. Feel like I'm there and I don't want to take a step forward to take a bigger one back. At the same time, I know my motives (professionally)....and do believe that I'd be a perfect fit for the job, and that there would be genuine fulfillment in that.



I think the bolded section above is key. You'd not be taking the job for money or prestige or whatever, but for genuine fulfillment. That's also probably what would make you very good at it, and your superior recognizes that. As long as the personal sacrifices that come with the additional responsibility do not cause hardship for you or the family, it sounds like a 'go' to me. OTOH, no amount of fulfillment on the job would ever make me sacrifice family, so if that's the tradeoff, then for me it would be an easy 'no.'

[charliedid]

That's a great thing and I'm sure a great feeling to be recognized for your work and abilities. Seems that you win either way but I have to ask... In your line of work, how often will this sort of opportunity come around if you don't take it now?

Just a thought.

[pdmtong]

hmmm. better over beers since so many nuances...
- let's poke at the notion that since you are a high performer you will always get opportunities. perhaps, but you work for the fire district, not a 5,000+ employee tech firm. you might get an opportunity, but it may involve moving. there is only one chief in your district. The guy with the key let you cut the line. you may be invisible to whoever follows the key holder. you are right to presume this is a one time offer. plus, that guy is now your confidant/mentor...he is not going to let you fail. they are asking you since they believe you can breathe some fresh air into a stale room and that your potential upside is far greater than the obvious ability of the alternatives
-what if the guy who does take the chief job is a POS and now your life is worse? or you feel you could do better? that would bother me a lot having left the offer on the table.
- presumably, you get a raise. how will that accelerate your savings/401k, change your liefstyle. the job might be worth 5-10 years earlier exit. wouldn't your pension be based on the higher gross income, meaning greater retirement annuity as well?
- the things you may not like about the job are the things you may have seen predecessors succumb to. how much of the job can you make your own, do it your way? so what the former guy worked 80 hours a week - he might not have been a good time manager or wanted to be away from his family.
- I get that moving to a desk job isnt for everyone. you would become them, and no longer us. current teammates were not asked to be chief because they do not have the skills or perspectives to work at that level. so they might not be able to appreciate the challenges in that role. so you gave five pounds. you aren't putting your life on the line every time either. you will have the chief job a lot longer that you will be a first responder. you can be a 60yo chief, I don''t think you can be a 60yo fireman
- if there is a budget cut, how are layoffs determined? being chief moves you off the target.
- in my observation, chiefs either move to other chief jobs with larger districts or it becomes a until-retirement job. so yea, this is a big deal. it's like tech VPs...once you make it there, now you spend the rest of your life taking bigger paying laterals.
- the idea of a current happy life is somewhat false, since neither you nor your family remain in place as time goes by. kids change you change the whole dynamic changes. you are given an opty to affect the future dynamic, instead of react to it.
- the idea of a "trial period" is false. everyone is all in, period. put another way, why should you be given decision making power in a trial period? that notion doesn't play out if you pull the thread all the way. and if no decision making power, now you are just a place holder caught in-between.
- I believe you can manage the family issues you are concerned about. that is part of any job change.

I see way more upside in accepting the offer than downside even though the offer came earlier in the arc of your career than you preferred or would plan.

[slidey]

Congrats, Geoff!

As for advice, I seem to have read the exact same sentiment between the lines of your post, as MattTuck did, and he's expressed it in a much better way than I could, so I won't.

What you describe as reasons for hesitation, would be the very reasons that would attract me to an opportunity, so yeah, its a head scratcher for me. However, I'll add that I'm juxtaposing your reasons into the confines of my own sedentary career world of tech, which is very different from your career of actually saving/serving people/communities, so maybe there's something about the same reasons, which interact with the domain of expertise to produce polar opposite instincts.

Finally, another measurement I use to give me guidance is by reversing roles. Which person would you be able to live with better - the one who says yay/nay?

Good luck, either ways.

[dsillito]

I haven't read through all the other responses, so this may be repetitive.

Seems to me, if he came to you, he thinks you are best for the position, and that gives you some leverage.

I'd be up front and honest. Tell him your concerns about work life balance, and that those issues are giving you pause. Maybe there is some flexibility possible in the job that others just haven't wanted to explore. See if a trial period can be arranged. Commit for a year or two, and then say you want the option to re-negotiate, and return to your previous job, if the new one is a poor fit.

Keep in mind, I've "honested" myself out of a job before, ha ha. Wouldn't change my decision though. I'd rather maintain my integrity by being honest than let it slip just for a job.

Good luck.

[93legendti]

hmmm. better over beers since so many nuances...
- let's poke at the notion that since you are a high performer you will always get opportunities. perhaps, but you work for the fire district, not a 5,000+ employee tech firm. you might get an opportunity, but it may involve moving. there is only one chief in your district. The guy with the key let you cut the line. you may be invisible to whoever follows the key holder. you are right to presume this is a one time offer. plus, that guy is now your confidant/mentor...he is not going to let you fail.
-what if the guy who does take the chief job is a jerk, and now your life is worse? or you know you could do batter? that would bother me a lot knowing that having left the offer on the table.
- presumably, you get a raise. how will that accelerate your savings/401k change your liefstyle. could you retire earlier? the job might be worth 5-10 years earlier exit. wouldn't your pension be based on the higher gross income, meaning greater retirement annuity as well?
- the things you may not like about the job are the things you may have seen predecessors succumb to. how much of the job can you make your own, do it your way? so what the former guy worked 80 hours a week - he might not have been a good time manager or wanted to be away from his family.
- I get that moving to a desk job isnt for everyone. you would become them, and no longer us. current teammates were not asked to be chief because they do not have the skills or perspectives to work at that level. so they might not be able to appreciate the challenges in that role.
- if there is a budget cut, how are layoffs determined? being chief moves you off the target.
- in my observation, chiefs either move to other chief jobs with larger districts or it becomes a until-retirement job. so yea, this is a big deal. it's like tech VPs...ocne you make it there, now you spend the rest of your life taking bigger paying laterals.
- I believe you can manage the family issues you are concerned about. that is part of any job change.

I see way more upside in accepting the offer than downside.

There is some very good advice here.

I work for myself.

But what I know about working for big and small firms as well as lessons my Father (who changed jobs 11 times in his 1rst two years and ended up back at the first firm at double the salary) taught me, is this:

Work is for supporting my family and my hobbies.
Since it is business, loyalties rarely run both ways in a fair, equal and equitable manner.
Reasonable opportunities should be exploited.
There are no bad decisions, just ones you don't properly follow thru on.

Regardless of what you do in your working career, being a FC adds a skill set that can make you more valuable in a variety of professions.

[slidey]

I've heard two people now mention the concept of trialing the new job, and seeing how it goes, with an out if it doesn't work out. Let me just say that per my opinion, it is "the worst" thing a potential employee could do/say/hint at. I literally can't think of another thing that would be more damaging (assuming common sense prevails, etc).

If it were me holding out the offer, I'd rescind it at the very next instant if someone came up with such a notion.

The way I see it, when I've zeroed in on a potential talent, and made an offer, its in good faith, and its an investment by me where I'm willing to pool in 100% to create an environment to set up the potential talent for success. I'm going all-in, and I expect nothing less than a 100% commitment from the other end. Note, I said, 100% commitment, not 100% results. I have no time/patience/interest in investing an iota of my resources in someone who is going to give anything less than a 100%. The very notion of negotiating a possible 'out', before ever being 'in', just rubs me the wrong way.

[fuzzalow]

^ I agree with what slidey said above about "trial run" at a new job. Every time it was mentioned it it was like a neuralgic twitch put to words as advice.

Jeez fellas, make a decision and have the stones to see it through and deal with the consequences if you can't, don't want to, or fail. There is a lot about life that doesn't have a safetynet or somebody to pat your bottom and dust you off when you fail. Sure, it's nice to catch a break sometimes. And I'd rather be lucky than good anyday. But my goodness me, live your life taking your best shot and not looking for an out for yourself before you've even gotten an in.

I haven't ranted in a while. That felt better.:o

[texbike]

Geoff,

Congrats on having this role offered to you! Honestly, it sounds like the FC position is something that you would really like to do (if it didn't entail the BS politics or the huge impact on your family/personal life). Given the circumstances, you may be in a position to set the terms that you would be willing to accept the role under. Perhaps it would be a good time to sit down with your contact and let him know your primary concerns about the impact of the role on your family and personal time. More than likely he would respect your position and make concessions to address your needs. If you really want the role, this could be a good opportunity to step into it on your own terms.

Whichever direction you choose, good luck with it! You're good people! :D

Mike

[shovelhd]

I've heard two people now mention the concept of trialing the new job, and seeing how it goes, with an out if it doesn't work out. Let me just say that per my opinion, it is "the worst" thing a potential employee could do/say/hint at. I literally can't think of another thing that would be more damaging (assuming common sense prevails, etc).

If it were me holding out the offer, I'd rescind it at the very next instant if someone came up with such a notion.

The way I see it, when I've zeroed in on a potential talent, and made an offer, its in good faith, and its an investment by me where I'm willing to pool in 100% to create an environment to set up the potential talent for success. I'm going all-in, and I expect nothing less than a 100% commitment from the other end. Note, I said, 100% commitment, not 100% results. I have no time/patience/interest in investing an iota of my resources in someone who is going to give anything less than a 100%. The very notion of negotiating a possible 'out', before ever being 'in', just rubs me the wrong way.

I think it's a pretty big stretch from advising someone that the situation doesn't have to be permanent to not being 100% committed to making it work. Those are two completely different things.

[thwart]

Congrats on the offer, Geoff.

Your post makes it clear that you're happy where you are now. Can't even think of how many folks over the years who've told me they loved their work... until they moved into a position that involved less of what they really loved to do and more of managing people and the politics of their position.

I'd have a good long conversation about this with your spouse and close friends.

Good luck with your decision.

[slidey]

I think it's a pretty big stretch from advising someone that the situation doesn't have to be permanent to not being 100% committed to making it work. Those are two completely different things.

I couldn't disagree more.

[spiderman]

Either you will
Go through this door
Or you will not go through.

If you go through
There is always the risk
Of remembering your name.

Things look at you doubly
And you must look back
And let them happen.

If you go through
It is possible
To live worthily
To maintain your attitudes
To hold your position
To die bravely

But much will blind you,
Much will evade you,
At what cost who knows?

The door itself
Makes no promises.
It is only a door.

--Adrienne Rich

[AngryScientist]

Do your friends and family call you Geoff?

do not discredit how your life will change if everyone now calls you "Chief".

Just inserting some comedy. :hello:

[jimcav]

you guys adhere to NFPA? All I can say is when you go from one of the team to run the team, things change. Depending on the politics and the bureaucracy it can be frustrating. 2 years ago i went with a leadership position to try to further my career vs go back on an operational tour, it has been a slog to "improve" things. I have, but being military can't stay, we rotate, so lasting change is hard (i.e. whatever i did will be undone or changed in the months to come). If you have somehow got job security in the position, and enjoy whatever battles are needed to run it how you want (again not sure what systems you have to follow, who you answer to), but just be aware that managing, disciplining, and removing firefighters who you used to be more "in the field" with is very different i bet. I do a lot of osha and medical standards stuff, and the FF in the federal system have lots of issues as guys get older and develop conditions/injuries/disability and honestly they often don't meet NFPA but stay in the game anyway which puts others at risk. Our guys are 99% wildfires on base, in 5 years we had one structure fire, but those issues and the other personal EEO type of stuff can be a huge headache if your job encompasses those things
wish you luck--choice is great, but choices also can be hard

[firerescuefin]

Long story short (and it has been a long one with more ups and downs/circuitous BS than I could have ever anticipated).

I took the position today. Should be announced sometime this week.

Excited...little leery of what I've got myself into...but excited nonetheless.

[fuzzalow]

Good for you. Don't look back. Put your guts into it and you will not fail. There is always more that you are capable of because you believe in yourself. Best of luck.

[Tickdoc]

Congrats to you!

[FlashUNC]

Well done.

[ofcounsel]

Congratulations. As Fuzz says, don't look back!

[shovelhd]

You're going to do great things.

[soulspinner]

All the best on your new position. They got the right guy.

[AngryScientist]

hail to the chief!

:beer::beer:

[DRZRM]

Congratulations Chief!!

[weisan]

Godspeed, my friend.

Privilege and responsibility.

[slidey]

Congrats on embarking on a new journey! All the very best to you on it.

[firerescuefin]

Probably last update for awhile....

Love the job. Most days, I'm pretty spent (mentally) at the end of the day...but in a very good way/ professional equivalent of having a beer after a good hard ride.

Our firefighters are required to do a Physical Agility Test/Assessment (PAT) once a year. I am the first Chief Officer in memory (and we have guys that have been here 30 years) to do it....and my time puts me in the top 5% of the department. I remember being a young FF and working for a guy that did pretty much the same...and thinking I wanted to be him "when I grow up"....That checks a box that I'll continue to check as long as I can. I'm still in contact with that Chief...and reached out to him to let him know, that his actions left an impression that stuck with me/set the bar.

[soulspinner]

Probably last update for awhile....

Love the job. Most days, I'm pretty spent (mentally) at the end of the day...but in a very good way/ professional equivalent of having a beer after a good hard ride.

Our firefighters are required to do a Physical Agility Assessment (PAT) once a year. I am the first Chief Officer in memory (and we have guys that have been here 30 years) to do it....and my time puts me in the top 5% of the department. I remember being a young FF and working for a guy that did pretty much the same...and thinking I wanted to be him "when I grow up"....That checks a box that I'll continue to check as long as I can. I'm still in contact with the Chief...and reached out to him to let him know that left an impression that stuck with me/set the bar.

Cool. You set the example for others as it has been for you.

[lzuk]

Leading by example builds respect from your peers. Congrats!

[fuzzalow]

I'm adding a link to a recent NYTimes OpEd that talks specifically about time management and particularly about the myth in the scarcity of time for how people run their lives.

The Busy Person’s Lies (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/15/opinion/sunday/the-busy-persons-lies.html?_r=0)

In summary, the author debunks the myth as to how busy people think they are and that time can be found to do what one wishes, needs and prioritizes to do. She backs up her claim by charting every hour of everyday to analyze and substantiate her hypothesis. Yes, there is time to do things.

I agree with the author and I have said so numerous times, including in this thread. I would go one step further than the author in that being busy is bragged about across many in society as a form of narcissism - as though elevating time demands as a symbol and affirmation of importance while also stroking one's self in the self-pity of heroic martyrdom - "what will they do without me?". I saw lots of this out in the burbs: the fuss was a sideshow unto itself.

The folks that really want to do stuff don't mess around. Stop complainin', that's a waste of time! Just do it.

I have every reason to believe OP firerescuefin is doing well. Keep it goin' and I trust your own expectations have risen accordingly.

[makoti]

I'm adding a link to a recent NYTimes OpEd that talks specifically about time management and particularly about the myth in the scarcity of time for how people run their lives.

The Busy Person’s Lies (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/15/opinion/sunday/the-busy-persons-lies.html?_r=0)

In summary, the author debunks the myth as to how busy people think they are and that time can be found to do what one wishes, needs and prioritizes to do. She backs up her claim by charting every hour of everyday to analyze and substantiate her hypothesis. Yes, there is time to do things.

I agree with the author and I have said so numerous times, including in this thread. I would go one step further than the author in that being busy is bragged about across many in society as a form of narcissism - as though elevating time demands as a symbol and affirmation of importance while also stroking one's self in the self-pity of heroic martyrdom - "what will they do without me?". I saw lots of this out in the burbs: the fuss was a sideshow unto itself.

The folks that really want to do stuff don't mess around. Stop complainin', that's a waste of time! Just do it.

I have every reason to believe OP firerescuefin is doing well. Keep it goin' and I trust your own expectations have risen accordingly.

Very interesting read. Thanks. I'm sure I'd find out just how much time I waste if I tried it.