Bar end shifters - still relevant?

[kevinvc]

I understand the advantages of bar end shifters for folks doing tours in remote places. Fewer breakable pieces and the ability to friction shift make sense if riding in the middle of nowhere. There's also the price consideration.

But I just can't think of any other situations / reasons where they would be better than brifters for a drop bar setup. Shifting them takes your hands off the brakes or hoods and they just don't seem as conveniently placed to me. They are such a small niche product that, from my non-expert vantage point, I wouldn't be surprised if they become harder and harder to find or going away altogether (outside of the used market). I'm not hating on them and I get that people have personal preferences for what they like for a variety of reasons. That's what I'm trying to ask. If you love your bar end shifters, could you please explain why?

[carpediemracing]

Time trial bikes?

Also, there are some mass start racers that still use them. I'm sure part of it has to do with the cost. I used to use a bar end shifter, just on the right side, but use Ergo levers now.

[bfd]

One area that is probably not relevant to you is that people like to use bar-end shifters with upright bars. Think Rivendell or what they're evolving into:

http://www.bikecult.com/works/bikesframes/rivendell-hillborneV1rs.JPG

http://www.rivbike.com/v/vspfiles/photos/build-12-2.jpg

http://www.rivbike.com/v/vspfiles/photos/f-hillborne-blue-5.jpg

[gmcampy]

My Fargo 29r with drop bars uses them and I love them. Local shop builds adventure bikes and almost exclusively uses them. www.gravelandgrind.com :D

[bicycletricycle]

I admire them for their durability and in my case for their frictioness.

I simple solution for a simple problem is preferable to me.

Also, shimano indexed thumb shifters have a great snap. most brifters have a mushier feel

[choke]

They're great if you want to convert an older MTB to drop bars.

[Bob Ross]

But I just can't think of any other situations / reasons where they would be better than brifters for a drop bar setup.

I hate friction shifting as much as -- nay, no doubt more than -- the next guy, but I still completely get this reason for having either bar-end or downtube friction shifters on a drop-bar road bike:

Winter riding while wearing thick gloves or mittens.
Brifters suck when wearing thick gloves or mittens.

[AngryScientist]

For my Black Mountain, I elected to go with downtube friction shifters. I like them a lot. Friction shifters basically let you use whatever RD and FD you want, and whatever rear sprocket set you like. campy spacing, sram, shimano, whatever! dead simple, dead reliable.

I know we're talking about bar ends, but the concept is similar. Initially I wondered if I would hate the downtube shifters, but after riding the bike for a few weeks, it's just second nature to reach down and shift, no big deal.

If i were racing the bike, or routinely riding in fast paced, tightly packed group rides, integrated shifters are definitely better for that scenario, but for casual, more endurance based riding, there's not much advantage, i think.

[Jad]

I had bar end shifters on my first 'cross bike (bought it used that way). One of the arguments is their durability for crashes/falls, when brifters might otherwise get mangled. I can't imagine racing with them now, but they were good training for learning to anticipate shifting!

[bobswire]

I use them for my errand/commute bike because I can use any rear wheel (campy or shimano) and 6-10 speed cassette/freewheel I want with them though I only use Suntour ratcheting not Indexed and they last forever and a day. They are as relevant today as the time they were first made IMO. Oh and by the way they are very intuitive, I seldom if ever miss a shift and you can go up or down the gears quicker than you can with brifters.
My go to bike runs the newer Campagnolo shifters but barcons still have their place. Anytime I see a good deal on them or Simplex down tube I'll buy them if I don't already have an extra set in my bin.

http://i65.tinypic.com/28ulqw2.jpg
http://i60.tinypic.com/993yvn.jpg
Also I have them on this build for bike I just built up and I'll be selling locally as a city commutes/all rounder.

http://i64.tinypic.com/ftd4di.jpg

http://i66.tinypic.com/ff34ih.jpg

[jasonification]

I've also heard it's great on travel bikes (ones that are coupled), but am not sure as to why. Anyone have further insight into this?

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[alexstar]

I like to have bar ends on my tourer/commuter. As previously stated, they are 100% reliable and that appeals to me. I don't want to be stuck in the middle of nowhere with a broken shifter.

[MerckxMad]

For my Black Mountain, I elected to go with downtube friction shifters. I like them a lot. Friction shifters basically let you use whatever RD and FD you want, and whatever rear sprocket set you like. campy spacing, sram, shimano, whatever! dead simple, dead reliable.

I know we're talking about bar ends, but the concept is similar. Initially I wondered if I would hate the downtube shifters, but after riding the bike for a few weeks, it's just second nature to reach down and shift, no big deal.

If i were racing the bike, or routinely riding in fast paced, tightly packed group rides, integrated shifters are definitely better for that scenario, but for casual, more endurance based riding, there's not much advantage, i think.

^^^ This/ DTs and bar-end shifters free you from using one of the Big Three. Friction shifters let you mix and match drive train components for performance or style in real world riding applications. Plus, they are dead simple to maintain.

[AJosiahK]

I would say so

Depends on alot of things but mainly rider preference.

I know a woman and gent who are pretty accomplished riders, mt washinton, dirty kanza competitors etc. They both have bar ends on several of their modern bikes

Depends on the build and rider for sure

I used to rock them on a Fargo, but I felt like on mixed terrain they were more an inconvenience.

[dsillito]

I hate friction shifting as much as -- nay, no doubt more than -- the next guy, but I still completely get this reason for having either bar-end or downtube friction shifters on a drop-bar road bike:

Winter riding while wearing thick gloves or mittens.
Brifters suck when wearing thick gloves or mittens.

Agreed. As do trigger-type shifters on a flat bar bike. The grease inside gets so thick in the cold that they stop working below around -20C (in my experience) anyway, regardless of the difficulty with the mittens. I switched to some old 7 speed gripshifters I got for $5, and have been very happy with them. I do get a bit concerned with all the plastic in them though, being brittle in the cold. No issues so far.

[dsillito]

For my Black Mountain, I elected to go with downtube friction shifters. I like them a lot. Friction shifters basically let you use whatever RD and FD you want, and whatever rear sprocket set you like. campy spacing, sram, shimano, whatever! dead simple, dead reliable.

I know we're talking about bar ends, but the concept is similar. Initially I wondered if I would hate the downtube shifters, but after riding the bike for a few weeks, it's just second nature to reach down and shift, no big deal.

If i were racing the bike, or routinely riding in fast paced, tightly packed group rides, integrated shifters are definitely better for that scenario, but for casual, more endurance based riding, there's not much advantage, i think.

I have bikes with down tube and integrated shifters (can't we kill the word "brifters"?), and depending on which I ride more, often find myself taking my hand off the ergoshifter to reach down to the ghost levers to shift. Brushed my finger off the tire once. Not too smart. :D Funny that I never find myself trying to push on the standard brake levers to shift. Probably because they feel so different, and my fingers aren resting on the shift paddles.

[Bradford]

It's not only that they are less likely to break on a tour, they also perform much better under a touring load. I've seen touring buddies fiddling for an entire tour trying to get brifters to work correctly under load. My touring bike is mostly a commuter these days and I still prefer bar ends.

I've had at least one bike with bar end shifters since the early 90's and they are the most natural things in the world. I think they are more natural and intuitive than my brifters and they are significantly more reliable. When I shift on one of my other bikes, I need to think about it, but when I shift with bar ends, all I need to do is think shift and it happens. It is much more natural to wiggle a pinky in the drops than find the shift levers behind the brakes.

I run my tandem with both brifters and a bar end, but the bar end is on friction and hooked up to my drum brake so I can use it as a drag brake on big hills.

As long as people use bikes in practical applications, there will be a need for bar ends.

[Ralph]

I like Bar Cons on simple use bikes. Especially on those reverse action Shimano RD's. They shift so nice.

[kevinvc]

Wow, thanks for all the great feedback. I've never used bar end shifters before and didn't really understand their purpose until I started talking to folks about my plans to do some bike touring this summer. It's led to some interesting conversations since most are happy with integrated shifters, but a couple are emphatic about bar ends. What's confusing is that they haven't articulated any of the reasons nearly as well as a lot of you have. They basically just said that they're more reliable and you don't want to get stuck out in the middle of nowhere.

Personally, I've never had any equipment failure on a long ride (flats don't count), so I've never thought about the durability of any of the specific components. I'm planning on making a few changes to my bike before touring, such as adding a steel fork and replacing the rear derailleur with a mtb 9 speed so I can add a better climbing cassette. I don't think I'll worry about swapping the shifters at this point, but it's something to keep in mind when parts start wearing out in the future.

Thanks forum! :beer:

[Ralph]

Just put on new shifter cables, with lots of grease around wear areas. You should be fine. Unless the shifer itself breaks.

[palincss]

I understand the advantages of bar end shifters for folks doing tours in remote places. Fewer breakable pieces and the ability to friction shift make sense if riding in the middle of nowhere. There's also the price consideration.

But I just can't think of any other situations / reasons where they would be better than brifters for a drop bar setup. Shifting them takes your hands off the brakes or hoods and they just don't seem as conveniently placed to me. They are such a small niche product that, from my non-expert vantage point, I wouldn't be surprised if they become harder and harder to find or going away altogether (outside of the used market). I'm not hating on them and I get that people have personal preferences for what they like for a variety of reasons. That's what I'm trying to ask. If you love your bar end shifters, could you please explain why?

There are plenty of situations where bar end shifters are superior and where brifters fail big time. However, they may not be relevant to you. For example: brifters do not work well with triples, and for carrying loads (and that could be touring loads, or just heavier riders) in hilly country, touring triples are better than wide range doubles. Also, brifters greatly limit your choice in derailleurs and chain rings, and AFAIK there are no brifters made that would work with the [24|26] - 36 - [46|48] chain ring combinations I like or with non ramped and pinned rings, and I think it highly unlikely you could get a Shimano brifter to work with the Campagnolo Racing T front derailleurs I like so well.

I don't care for the ergonomics of brifters, either. I've been using bar end shifters for 40 years and the way they work makes perfect sense to me. Pushing one lever to upshift and another lever to downshift simply doesn't. Grabbing a handful of gear and sweeping the lever over five or six sprockets is easy and sensible; pokety pokety pokety poke, the brifter equivalent (yes, I know some will let you do more than one gear at once, but others won't) makes none. I don't even like the feeling of the hoods: so thick you'd think you were gripping the fat part of a Louisville Slugger compared to the Shimano aero brake levers I like.

There is one serious advantage to brifters: they let you shift while standing. That advantage is meaningless to me, it's something I never do, never wanted to do, never will do. To have to incur all the disadvantages and give up everything I enjoy in order to get a benefit I will never use doesn't make any sense to me.

[DfCas]

Bar end and down tube shifters allow you to use any style brake lever. Long or short pull, or hydraulic.

[Rada]

Bar ends will work with mountain bike front derailleurs while STI's will not. As Choke mentioned they make converting mountain bikes/ hybrids to drop bars easy.

[kingpin75s]

As a devout bar end user most all of my thoughts have been well articulated here already. I will only add that I run Dura Ace 9 speed bar end shifters on almost every geared bike that I own, both road, mountain and in-between. Consistency for me adds a lot of value as I change from bike to bike and road to trail.

Cowbells and bar ends for road and Woodchippers (drops primary position) and bar ends for trail. Pinkie Shift! ;)

[jbay]

To add to the pro's other people have listed, I will add that 'bar-con's also let you figure out what gear you're in by feel. This is particularly useful when riding at night and when tandeming.

And for those looking to combine drop 'bars with a clutched rear derailleur, they have made that possible for several years (using SRAM 'bar con's).


There is one serious advantage to brifters: they let you shift while standing.I actually do that all the time with 'bar-con's too, Steve!

-- John

[mtb_frk]

Great subject. I know very little about bar end shifters, but am interested in putting them on one of my bikes. My current setup is all shimano but want to put a bigger cassette on the bike. I have a SRAM wifli rear der I would like to use, but could I still run my shimano front der. with SRAM bar ends?

[Hindmost]

I have a bike with 1 x 10 and a barend shifter and I enjoy the simplicity.

If you are a component snob, like me, the issue becomes: what brake lever is compatible and aesthetically pleasing. Does one mix brands, or mix vintages?

Although, as has been mentioned, the new hydraulic brakes and such along with some new bike styles are pushing the options or what works well and looks cool.

[YoKev]

Shimanos are nice, but I prefer Suntours

I have run 10 speed cassettes 100% friction with them. Things really do not get any simpler.

[sg8357]

Shimanos are nice, but I prefer Suntours

I have run 10 speed cassettes 100% friction with them. Things really do not get any simpler.

Hot setup, Suntour power ratchet front, Shimano rear.

[MaraudingWalrus]

Also, totally irrelevant to most of us here, but the recumbent market is dominated by bar ends, especially in trikes.

And for reasons I can't explain, a large portion of my customers insist on pronouncing bar end as "ba rend"

[Frankwurst]

I cut my teeth on downtube shifters and barcons. Both friction in those days. I still use downtubes or barcons, both friction and indexed, simply because I like them and they work. I like what I know works and DT and barcons have never let me down. :beer:

[acoffin]

I actually like the ergonomics of integrated and down tube shifters better than bar ends. They both feel more natural to me than reaching back to the end of my handlebar. That being said, I used them on a bike this winter, because as others have pointed out, they are great when wearing winter gloves. And I will be using them on my next build for the same reason, in addition to them being decently suited to off road/commuter use.

Maybe I will get tired of them and rebuild with integrated shifters, but I am going to give the bar ends plenty of time to sway me their way.

[NHAero]

I have Shimano DA 9 speed barcons on my two drop bar road bikes, on the Albatross bars on my Big Dummy, and on Paul's Thumbies on my Klein MTB that I use in the winter. Dead reliable and easy to use.

[guido]

I like the barcons i have on my GR. But I keep putting 6800 brifters on new projects...

[eddief]

for my kind of riding they are in the wrong place on the bars. They absolutely have a place on some bikes, but integrated shifters for most road riding are just a great technological invention. I did 45 miles today and must have brifted those things 500 times. Reaching for barends could have done the shifting just fine, but what for?

[dustyrider]

It all depends on the bike and it's intended use or look. This is the paceline after all.
I've got down tube shifters in index and friction, thumb shifters in index, bar ends in friction soon to be index/friction and a set of brifters. One day I'm sure I'll want thumb shifters in friction. Each has their advantages. Except twist shifters...I've never liked those things for some reason.

[Ken Robb]

Power Ratchet shifters (original Suntour or new Silver from Rivendell) are the only friction shifters I really like because they allow great precision choosing gears due to their light action that can be adjusted so the effort required is the same shifting up or down. I ride in the drops most of the time so barends are usually in contact with my palms for quick shifting. One sweep of the lever lets me shift across the entire cassette in a trice. :D

[Corso]

I have them on my: Bridgestone RB-2 road bike, Santa Cruz Stigmata cross bike, and a “drop bar” Bontrager Race mountain bike.

Why I like them: I’m used to them, and I can mix and match a lot of combinations that all work.

Keeps my hand moving around the bars, vs being on the hoods all the time. Also shift motion consistency when I jump between bikes.

And I’m old.

[bfd]

There are plenty of situations where bar end shifters are superior and where brifters fail big time. However, they may not be relevant to you. For example: brifters do not work well with triples, and for carrying loads (and that could be touring loads, or just heavier riders) in hilly country, touring triples are better than wide range doubles. Also, brifters greatly limit your choice in derailleurs and chain rings, and AFAIK there are no brifters made that would work with the [24|26] - 36 - [46|48] chain ring combinations I like or with non ramped and pinned rings, and I think it highly unlikely you could get a Shimano brifter to work with the Campagnolo Racing T front derailleurs I like so well.

I don't care for the ergonomics of brifters, either. I've been using bar end shifters for 40 years and the way they work makes perfect sense to me. Pushing one lever to upshift and another lever to downshift simply doesn't. Grabbing a handful of gear and sweeping the lever over five or six sprockets is easy and sensible; pokety pokety pokety poke, the brifter equivalent (yes, I know some will let you do more than one gear at once, but others won't) makes none. I don't even like the feeling of the hoods: so thick you'd think you were gripping the fat part of a Louisville Slugger compared to the Shimano aero brake levers I like.

There is one serious advantage to brifters: they let you shift while standing. That advantage is meaningless to me, it's something I never do, never wanted to do, never will do. To have to incur all the disadvantages and give up everything I enjoy in order to get a benefit I will never use doesn't make any sense to me.

I don't know what you mean by "brifter," but almost all Campagnolo ergo levers are triple compatible and should have no problem shifting any of the chainring combinations you mentioned.

I will agree that if you don't like the ergonomics or feel, it may not work for you. But that's subjective and personal to you.

So I recommend you give them a try and if it doesn't work for you, don't automatically think it's wrong for everyone else. Good Luck!

[palincss]

I actually do that all the time with 'bar-con's too, Steve!

-- John

That doesn't surprise me, but it's a tough act for lesser mortals to follow...

[redir]

I use them in friction mode on my TT bike and prefer it that way. My touring bike has DT shifters but I used to use bar ends for those as well. Way back in the day I used to race cyclocross with a single ring up front and a barcon for the rear 8-speed mech and it really worked quite well. There is an advantage to being able to dump the whole cassette in a hurry which you can do with a friction barcon. I suppose one could argue you can make a lighter bike with barcons and regular brake levers rather that Ergo or STI.

[palincss]

I will agree that if you don't like the ergonomics or feel, it may not work for you. But that's subjective and personal to you.

So I recommend you give them a try and if it doesn't work for you, don't automatically think it's wrong for everyone else.

I never said they were wrong for anyone else, except of course if they wanted to do those things (e.g., using non ramped/non pinned rings, triples, rings of sizes other than those combinations blessed by Shimano, mixing and matching between shifter and derailleur brands, using Shimano MTB front derailleurs with road shifters, etc.) that they don't do well. I was responding to the OP's question.

I realize for every bike I see on a club ride set up with bar end shifters there will be 20 or 30 with "integrated shift / brake levers" (isn't brifter a whole lot simpler?) and most of those riders seem to love them. But that doesn't mean there isn't an answer to a question like "Why on earth would anyone want to use those other things?".

[carpediemracing]

Tip for those using bar end shifters. Cut down the bars. I used bar ends for many years, about 8 or 9 years, before I went to Ergo in 1992 or so.

I hated moving my hand back to reach the shifter so I cut down the bar so that at the furtherest back point on the drops that I'd put my hand I'd have the end of the shifter under my hand. I never used the very end of the drops because no reason to do so, can't reach brakes, too close to me, etc. No advantage in comfort or whatever.

I never dropped my hand off the bar because it was "too short", and in fact I continue to cut down my bars to the same spot even with Ergo levers.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_TbmplkIYLx8/R7tKRhISzKI/AAAAAAAAAaI/mWXwvvRJdoE/s800/100_2936.JPG

My bars were short enough that when I finally went to Ergo I had to leave the bar end "base" in place because otherwise the bar was too short. When I replaced the bars I cut them at the right place for "no bar end". You can see the bar end base in this picture. I tried it without the base but the bar was about 1 cm too short.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_TbmplkIYLx8/S-scIxcTr0I/AAAAAAAACzk/xXhVzK3t-jo/s800/IMG_0050.jpg

With the Ergo bars (left hand):
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_TbmplkIYLx8/R7tKhxISzLI/AAAAAAAAAaQ/uY0rDkMM910/s800/100_2938.JPG

[oldpotatoe]

Shifters, Campag, are too deep/long and would force me into a shorty stem so when it came to EPS on Merckx, barends were perfect along with CRecord brake levers.

For right below, 'brifters'...only because Sheldon(Please RIP) coined the term..otherwise I think it's dum as well.

[Wakatel_Luum]

Jeez i hate that word "brifters"...

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[Peter P.]

Tip for those using bar end shifters. Cut down the bars. I used bar ends for many years, about 8 or 9 years, before I went to Ergo in 1992 or so.


This is exactly what I do. I cut the bars an equivalent of the length of the bar end. I just have to make sure the expander wedge of the bar end shifter won't bottom out inside the handlebars after I make the cut.

Aesthetically, it looks better and like you said, you don't use the extended portion of the drop anyway. It makes for a quicker reach to the shifter as well.

[Ray]

I have two road bikes, one with brifters and one with barcons. As Steve mentioned, the ONLY advantage I've ever felt with brifters is they make it easier to shift while out of the saddle. I've shifted barcons while out of the saddle, but only when I'm in the drops, and I'm mostly on the hoods out of the saddle and having to reach back for them then requires me to get back in the saddle. That is something I do when I have the brifter bike and I like that advantage, but it seems that when I'm on the barcon bike, I never miss being able to easily do that.

So, yeah, another positive vote for barcons - not barcons exclusively, but surely as a good option...

-Ray

[chiasticon]

I still completely get this reason for having either bar-end or downtube friction shifters on a drop-bar road bike:

Winter riding while wearing thick gloves or mittens.
Brifters suck when wearing thick gloves or mittens.bar ends may be better in this situation, I don't know, but this is one of the reasons I cite for liking the shifting of sram vs shimano: when you're wearing big heavy lobster gloves (or your hands are starting to freeze, or you're cross-eyed in a cross race, etc), it's far easier to hit that big doubletap button on sram than it is to distinguish between two tiny levers on shimano. and even if you do find the right lever, you might still hit the other one because your gloves are so damn thick.

personally, I've never used bar end shifters. I find it interesting to think that people could race cross on them though. seems it would be hard to take your hands off the brakes to shift, over bumpy terrain. or you just have to brake a lot less and keep your hands in the drops, I guess.

one of the semi-local dudes and former pro, Gunnar Shogren, still routinely kicks ass in cross races using bar-end shifters. here's a Velonews photo of him using them at the 2013 masters worlds, racing his way to bronze. I can confirm that he's still using them though.

http://cdn.velonews.competitor.com/files/2012/01/20120114-608I7428.jpg

[palincss]

I find it interesting to think that people could race cross on them though. seems it would be hard to take your hands off the brakes to shift, over bumpy terrain. or you just have to brake a lot less and keep your hands in the drops, I guess.


But you find it unremarkable that so much bike racing history was accomplished using down tube shifters, which not require you to take your hands off the brakes to shift, they require you to take your hand off the bar completely to shift. How ever did they do it. :)

[bobswire]

Shifters, Campag, are too deep/long and would force me into a shorty stem so when it came to EPS on Merckx, barends were perfect along with CRecord brake levers.

For right below, 'brifters'...only because Sheldon(Please RIP) coined the term..otherwise I think it's dum as well.

Back then brifter(even though I still use the term today and Sheldon was my Guru) was used in place of Shimano STI (shimano total integration) or Campy Ergos (ergopower 1992).