That question... Rim ERD and rim transfers

[Robbos]

I know that this question irks some purists, and for good reason, but I'm a frugal dude trying to make cool bike projects that don't break my already broken bank.
So, I have a pair of DT 1450 Mon Chasseral wheels and surprise (not really) the rear rim is Kaput. The rims are ERD 599, and what I'd ideally like to do is swap them out for Velocty A23s, ERD 601. Am I playing with fire? Is there such as thing as longer nipples that can compensate a little? I always understood that longer nipples did not actually have longer threads.
Thoughts?

[mwynne]

Also interested... Got a set of worn out Stans 340s (King hubs are still good to go), curious if I have any ERD wiggle room, since I'd like a different rim when rebuilding...

[Gsinill]

Your spokes will be 1mm too short if you switch from 599 to 601.
This said, are the spoke tips in the current rim sitting flush with the nipple head, are they sticking out, recessed?

[oldpotatoe]

Your spokes will be 1mm too short if you switch from 599 to 601.
This said, are the spoke tips in the current rim sitting flush with the nipple head, are they sticking out, recessed?

Spoke calc shows about 1.5mm longer spokes for 602 vs 599 so like above, end of spokes at end of nipple? If so I'd say sure do it and use 14mm nipples.,

[Robbos]

Not sure, I'll have to check tonight. Knowing DT build quality, I'm sure they're flush. So 1mm too short, that isn't so short as to be a problem, no?

[batman1425]

Any chance you have nipple washers on the DT build? They add 1.4mm to effective ERD. Removing them would put your right on the money for the A23 with out them.

[batman1425]

According to the interwebs (http://wheelbuilder.jmoore.me/rim/print)- these rims "should" have the same ERD as the alpha 340 - but this is something you'll want to verify by hand with your specific rims and the transplants.

Hed Ardennes
Hed Belgium
HED C2 Belgian
hed c2 campy
HED C2 Tubular
Light-Bicycle 29r XC
Matrix ISO 3
NOTUBES ZTR ALPHA 340
Remerx Master Disc RDX 7320 622X18
some rim, batavus blockbuster, double wall, silver, 36h
Stan's Alpha 400
Sun Venus (medium deep aero)
Alexrims G2000
Rigida X-PLORER 622

[mwynne]

According to the interwebs[...]

My next question was if there was a decent ERD database out there. Awesome.

[batman1425]

Pro tip - copy paste to excel, unmerge the merged cells in the right columns, then sort by ERD. Makes it a lot easier to sift through.

[mwynne]

Saving that for future use... And now planning new wheels, whoops!

[thwart]

While waiting for a wheel builder pro:

I've done a couple of successful Mavic Open Pro (ERD 605) to Velocity A23 (ERD 601) rim swaps, but of course that's the opposite problem, avoiding the spoke extending out too far beyond the nipple into the rim bed...

[crashnburn]

Spoke calc shows about 1.5mm longer spokes for 602 vs 599 so like above, end of spokes at end of nipple? If so I'd say sure do it and use 14mm nipples.,

This. And coming from OP himself.

I did a similar transfer last week on a 27.5 rim.
The newer hub flange diameter I had was a tad smaller so I used 14mm nipples and they were good to go.

[oldpotatoe]

Not sure, I'll have to check tonight. Knowing DT build quality, I'm sure they're flush. So 1mm too short, that isn't so short as to be a problem, no?

No it's not. I'd do it. Spokes are +/- 1mm anyway and rim diameters vary some also.

[oldpotatoe]

While waiting for a wheel builder pro:

I've done a couple of successful Mavic Open Pro (ERD 605) to Velocity A23 (ERD 601) rim swaps, but of course that's the opposite problem, avoiding the spoke extending out too far beyond the nipple into the rim bed...

Measured ERD of OpenPro is 602, using Wheelsmith rods.

[thwart]

Measured ERD of OpenPro is 602, using Wheelsmith rods.

Always better to measure than go by an online calculator, I guess. 'Edd' tends to be a pretty good source though, IME.

No wonder the re-rim project went so well!

[oldpotatoe]

Always better to measure than go by an online calculator, I guess. 'Edd' tends to be a pretty good source though, IME.

No wonder the re-rim project went so well!

Yup. DT says R440 599, actually 596..I measure all rims before building.

[Robbos]

Wow, thanks a bunch. Good solid advice here. Think I'll take the plunge, especially since I can do the offset A23 in the rear AND they come in white to match the rest of the Dt 1450 set up!

[oldpotatoe]

Wow, thanks a bunch. Good solid advice here. Think I'll take the plunge, especially since I can do the offset A23 in the rear AND they come in white to match the rest of the Dt 1450 set up!

Latest gen. Velocity rims made in the US MUCH better than the early ones. They seem to have gotten their QC in order. A23 nice rims.

[Robbos]

Latest gen. Velocity rims made in the US MUCH better than the early ones. They seem to have gotten their QC in order. A23 nice rims.

Hopefully the Canadian vendor does not have any of the left over stock from that bad era, heard lots of complaints about the quality issues. Wonder if there is any coding on the rim that tells me the manufacture date? Probably not.
On another note, realized that all of the spokes, including the driveside, are DT Revolutions. Even at 28 spokes, and with a OC rim, probably worth swapping the drivesides to Competitions to support my 185 pounds.

[oldpotatoe]

Hopefully the Canadian vendor does not have any of the left over stock from that bad era, heard lots of complaints about the quality issues. Wonder if there is any coding on the rim that tells me the manufacture date? Probably not.
On another note, realized that all of the spokes, including the driveside, are DT Revolutions. Even at 28 spokes, and with a OC rim, probably worth swapping the drivesides to Competitions to support my 185 pounds.

I would never build even a 32h wheel for you with Revs all around. I know some do but...I wouldn't. Hardly any weight savings and this spokes just don't support the rim well enough, IMHO. I'd use brass nipples too for the same reasons. They do nothing to add to the wheel's performance or longevity, are softer, again, IMHO.

I'd also lace 3 cross in the rear. And Yes, DT Comps or Sapim Race drive side.

[Robbos]

I would never build even a 32h wheel for you with Revs all around. I know some do but...I wouldn't. Hardly any weight savings and this spokes just don't support the rim well enough, IMHO. I'd use brass nipples too for the same reasons. They do nothing to add to the wheel's performance or longevity, are softer, again, IMHO.

I'd also lace 3 cross in the rear. And Yes, DT Comps or Sapim Race drive side.

Thats what I was thinking, same thing for the nipples: 14mm Sapim brass.