Giant to sell direct to consumer

[djg21]

Giant apparently is following Trek's lead and selling online direct to consumers, with consumers to take delivery at retail shop.

http://www.bicycleretailer.com/north-america/2016/02/11/giant-usa-sell-direct-consumers-online-august#.Vr37QfA8KrV

I'm still not sure how this bodes for brick-and-mortar shops. It may be a boon to those shops that cannot afford to maintain significant inventory. Many sell out of catalogs now. And the margins offered to shops are solid. On the other hand, it does minimize the ability of knowledgable shop people to have input into the consumer's purchasing decision.

This is the new model.

[rePhil]

Who's next, which biggie are left (Behind)?

[oldpotatoe]

Giant apparently is following Trek's lead and selling online direct to consumers, with consumers to take delivery at retail shop.

http://www.bicycleretailer.com/north-america/2016/02/11/giant-usa-sell-direct-consumers-online-august#.Vr37QfA8KrV

I'm still not sure how this bodes for brick-and-mortar shops. It may be a boon to those shops that cannot afford to maintain significant inventory. Many sell out of catalogs now. And the margins offered to shops are solid. On the other hand, it does minimize the ability of knowledgable shop people to have input into the consumer's purchasing decision.

This is the new model.

Nope..the customer goes into shop to get all the info and maybe some half-assed fit..then they go home and order..then delivered to the shop they choose(different from the visited one). So, the shop spends the $ to give info, then another shop gets the rather paltry margin..Kinda like mail order cowboys who try on shoes, then buy online.

I think with some exceptions, the 'big bike store' is kinda passe. More are becoming fancier Walmarts, with $269 bikes to beginners but for the $1500-$3000+ buyer, when shops can't stock size runs of these...online sales.

And like automotive model..service is key. Boulder, like 6 car dealers, 30+ car repair places...

[Ed-B]

In my opinion, this is the top of the downhill ride for the Local Bike Shop as we know it. The next option in online catalogs may be shipment direct to the consumer. Bikes Direct is successfully operating under that the model. If bike companies can get the initial assembly close to an operational state of tune then many if not most people could probably get a bike out of the box and on the road.

Walmart...

A few years ago Walmart offered some higher end road bikes - the Corsa series. There were three bikes, a full carbon 6600 Ultegra model, an aluminum/carbon 105 model, and an all aluminum bike with a lower Shimano group. All were purportedly made in Italy, and they were reasonably priced but not cheap. I think the carbon/Ultegra bike was about $1800

Prospective buyers ordered them from the Walmart web page and they were delivered to a Walmart store where they were given a final assembly and check. The online forums were ridiculing the bikes, the company - the whole idea of a higher end bike from Walmart. But think about it: most bikes today come from Taiwan and China, and who knows how to do business in China better than Walmart? Get a couple of bike savvy guys at corporate to spec some bikes, contract them out to Asia Inc., put them up on the web page, and you're in the bike business.

A few of these Corsas turned up on ebay from a reputable seller who appears to have been buying up freight salvage, overstock, and other items that were otherwise first quality. They were cheap; I bought both the carbon/Ultegra and the aluminum-carbon/105 bikes at $650 and $500, respectively. The components were worth at least that much, so I figured there was nothing to lose.

When I got them it was clear that they were very good quality Asian bikes, they were packed well, and the factory assembly (probably where the Italians got involved) was amazingly good right out of the box. I mean, these bikes were just about ready to ride! A few tweaks to the brakes and derailleurs and that was it. They were meant to be finished by the average Walmart bike assembler, so they had to be good_to_go. It was a real eye opener for me.

With Trek and now Giant offering direct to consumer sales it won't be long before others get into that business model. It validates the model, and anybody can do it. And then, who knows, the Asians themselves might offer more bikes directly to the consumer.

It's like Pandora's box.

[biker72]

Specialized is next. Maybe middle of summer.
So far so good with Trek. Where I work there have been only 4 online sales since inception. Apparently most customers want to come to a store to buy.

[ftf]

Nope..the customer goes into shop to get all the info and maybe some half-assed fit..then they go home and order..then delivered to the shop they choose(different from the visited one). So, the shop spends the $ to give info, then another shop gets the rather paltry margin..Kinda like mail order cowboys who try on shoes, then buy online.

I think with some exceptions, the 'big bike store' is kinda passe. More are becoming fancier Walmarts, with $269 bikes to beginners but for the $1500-$3000+ buyer, when shops can't stock size runs of these...online sales.

And like automotive model..service is key. Boulder, like 6 car dealers, 30+ car repair places...


The reality is that the days of having to get it from a salesperson or not get it are nearing to an end. It used to be that when you wanted something, anything really you had to deal with a salesperson, they might be nice, or they might be a total looser, no way to tell until you are already there having to deal with the person. The pushy looser salespeople are the reason that online sales are booming, people simply don't want to deal with it anymore, and they are finding out they no longer have to. Price is also part of it, things are cheaper online, for various reasons. So it's a win win for me, as far as I can tell, it's cheaper and I don't have to deal with some asshole, who perhaps is going to rip me off.

As for bike fit, that's what geometry tables are for, I wonder how many people are getting their first bike and buy a 3k one? I don't know.

[livingminimal]

This is how Canyon is going to enter the North American market.

When that happens, its really, truly on. I predict they will become the 4th player in the "big 4" and shake it all up.

[apple]

This is fantastic news for consumers. It may not make ye olde tyme bike riders happy as they get nostalgic about the "way things used to be" and talk about brands of yesteryear like Serotta, but really traditional bike shops add little value. I find that most of my purchases from them are because I feel sorry for them and so buy my tubes (but never tires!) or something from them to shop local rather than Amazon.

There are a few really amazing, small shops though. But by and large, shops have little to no value for the consumer.

[peanutgallery]

There are a lot of morons out there who also happen to be consumers. Wonder how that will shade some of these transactions?

[chiasticon]

i don't get how this is an issue. don't most bike shops make the majority of their money on service anyway, since their margins on sales are razor thin? that won't go away. Chuck's Bike O'Rama might just need a smaller shop. means a couple teenagers who don't know dick about bikes but are trying to fit you on a $10k one will have to find jobs at Burger King, sure. but Chuck will pay less in rent and the only people worth a damn in the shop - the wrenches - will still be around to help customers when they over-torque and crack the carbon seatpost on the brand new bike they bought online.

[ceolwulf]

So in my rural area there is very little selection of bikes and nothing high end at all. There is a Giant dealer, which is just a small general sporting goods shop and they usually have a dozen or so low end Giants on hand. If I wanted a nice TCR they could order it for me but they'd never stock such a thing. So how is this new system effectively any different?

[biker72]

So in my rural area there is very little selection of bikes and nothing high end at all. There is a Giant dealer, which is just a small general sporting goods shop and they usually have a dozen or so low end Giants on hand. If I wanted a nice TCR they could order it for me but they'd never stock such a thing. So how is this new system effectively any different?

Trek/Giant get a bigger cut of the margin.
More headaches for the dealer.
Same price to the customer.

[AngryScientist]

this is the direction literally everything is going.

i'm hearing lots of commercials for online home mortgages where you dont have to talk to a bank or a banker to get a mortgage.

the new generation of consumers is very online centric, and are savvy online shoppers. we're quickly approaching the point where you dont have to buy anything in a store anymore. televisions, electronics of every type, clothes, shoes - it's all easy to order from your living room and have delivered pronto.

even the business model of fresh direct and other supermarket delivery services is increasing in popularity.

as oldP said, i think good shops will stay around and operate around the service model, but if you've got a big company that sells a widget, whatever it is, and you're not selling that widget directly to the consumer online - in 2016: you're already dying on the vine.

[ceolwulf]

Trek/Giant get a bigger cut of the margin.
More headaches for the dealer.
Same price to the customer.

Wonder if this is why the biggest shop in Winnipeg seems to have dropped Giant. It was about a third of their stock before. Looks like they've replaced them with Felts.

[Ken Robb]

I sympathize with dealers for the major brands. There are so many models in so many sizes that stocking a full inventory is very expensive. Then these brands have annual changes to most if not all models even if the changes are only "Bold New Graphics" so the dealers have to reduce prices to clear out obsolete inventory for little or no profit. I guess the dealers have to make up for this through service/repairs and the sale of clothing and accessories----if they can.:eek:

[Waldo]

An owner of a successful LBS told me recently that he has gotten rid of all the sexy carbon brands -- over the years, he has carried Pinarello, Bianchi, Time, Cervelo, and some others I don't remember. He said there's significant pressure from manufacturers to maintain and turn over inventory, to clear out current year's model to make room for next year's latest/greatest and so on, making for extremely stressful in only marginally profitable existence. He now carries steel and a bit of aluminum from brands whose models remain consistently high quality, but don't change, so there is no pressure from the manufacturers -- nor from customers clamoring for latest and greatest. He still makes good money from selling steel as well as service and fits.

[bcroslin]

An owner of a successful LBS told me recently that he has gotten rid of all the sexy carbon brands -- over the years, he has carried Pinarello, Bianchi, Time, Cervelo, and some others I don't remember. He said there's significant pressure from manufacturers to maintain and turn over inventory, to clear out current year's model to make room for next year's latest/greatest and so on, making for extremely stressful in only marginally profitable existence. He now carries steel and a bit of aluminum from brands whose models remain consistently high quality, but don't change, so there is no pressure from the manufacturers -- nor from customers clamoring for latest and greatest. He still makes good money from selling steel as well as service and fits.

Buddies of mine are opening a LBS with this exact same type of biz model. Service is first and foremost the priority and selling bikes will be second. Creating an atmosphere where anyone can bring a bike into the shop, even if purchased online, and feel welcome is part of their business plan.

Here's a question: will online customers be encouraged to visit a Giant concept store to pick up their purchase? Giant just got their ass handed to them in court here in the Tampa Bay area because of back channel shenanigans they pulled to start a concept store. There's several other Giant dealers here in town and I know of at least one that has had it with them. I would imagine this news won't make him any happier.

[bluesea]

Giant could very well be saving a core of their dealers--losing sales due to inability to carry a healthy variety of models.

[ceolwulf]

An owner of a successful LBS told me recently that he has gotten rid of all the sexy carbon brands -- over the years, he has carried Pinarello, Bianchi, Time, Cervelo, and some others I don't remember. He said there's significant pressure from manufacturers to maintain and turn over inventory, to clear out current year's model to make room for next year's latest/greatest and so on, making for extremely stressful in only marginally profitable existence. He now carries steel and a bit of aluminum from brands whose models remain consistently high quality, but don't change, so there is no pressure from the manufacturers -- nor from customers clamoring for latest and greatest. He still makes good money from selling steel as well as service and fits.

I like this model but surely it could only work in the very largest market centres. Since such a large majority of serious riders want modern carbon.

[livingminimal]

Buddies of mine are opening a LBS with this exact same type of biz model. Service is first and foremost the priority and selling bikes will be second. Creating an atmosphere where anyone can bring a bike into the shop, even if purchased online, and feel welcome is part of their business plan.


These moves will likely put the Performance's of the world out of business (thankfully). I think it sucks when anyone loses their job but that place is the absolute worst of the worst in terms of bike shops. Salesmen that are not cyclists. Awesome. Mechanics that have no idea how to work with internal routing. Awesome.

The service-priority model is a long time in coming. There has been a sizeable grey market, second hand market, deep discount market in cycling for a long time. Smart, savvy shops will market themselves as a club-house style place. Coffee, beer, TV of races while you wait for EXCELLENT bike repair service...wait...this sounds like Jiffy Lube...by golly...

[bcroslin]

These moves will likely put the Performance's of the world out of business (thankfully). I think it sucks when anyone loses their job but that place is the absolute worst of the worst in terms of bike shops. Salesmen that are not cyclists. Awesome. Mechanics that have no idea how to work with internal routing. Awesome.

The service-priority model is a long time in coming. There has been a sizeable grey market, second hand market, deep discount market in cycling for a long time. Smart, savvy shops will market themselves as a club-house style place. Coffee, beer, TV of races while you wait for EXCELLENT bike repair service...wait...this sounds like Jiffy Lube...by golly...

There will be a full espresso bar onsite as well. They definitely want to cultivate the club house vibe but they're looking for a sustainable way of doing it other than having smelly cyclists hanging around.

[alembical]

I had never shopped at Performance Bike before. I was really glad that they stocked the bike I wanted to buy so I could test ride it, see it in person and check out 2 different sizes. The sales people did not know the basics of the bike, but I was okay with that. I got a bike from them for a grand less than I could have ordered for from my lbs. I got a Ridley with an Ultegra build kit, hydro brakes (805s), dt wheels for under $2500 with a $500 store credit. It would have cost me $2,000 to order the frame alone from my lbs. My lbs does all the service and gets all my business after this sale. Seems like a win - win to me.

[livingminimal]

There will be a full espresso bar onsite as well. They definitely want to cultivate the club house vibe but they're looking for a sustainable way of doing it other than having smelly cyclists hanging around.

The thing they cant do is start "bro-ing" out tons of deals on service. They need to back up their service with good attitudes and endless knowledge. Make it a service worth paying for. Otherwise, you end up working on your buddy's buddy's buddy's bike for free all the time.

[BrianVarick]

I think the role of a bike shop is definitely changing. One of the most successful shops in my area doesn't even sell new bikes, they sell used bikes. They have built a community of riders that use them for maintenance and little things. Personally, I don't get enough value from a bike shop that I am willing to spend more on a bike. I am sure there are people that would still rather go into a shop and rely on the information given though.

[josephr]

The thing they cant do is start "bro-ing" out tons of deals on service. They need to back up their service with good attitudes and endless knowledge. Make it a service worth paying for. Otherwise, you end up working on your buddy's buddy's buddy's bike for free all the time.

I do a fair amount of my own wrenching, but occasionally I need help and its really nice that my wrench likes to work on my odd-ball projects....I used to be that dude that expected my work to be comp'd, but being a member here has helped me mature --- now I insist on paying for my pet projects when he helps me out.

The Trek/Giant corporate stores don't bother me so much as we're fairly small market here. Still, I can't really see the difference b/t that and a Specialized dealer who's pretty much locked into the program.

[oldpotatoe]

This is fantastic news for consumers. It may not make ye olde tyme bike riders happy as they get nostalgic about the "way things used to be" and talk about brands of yesteryear like Serotta, but really traditional bike shops add little value. I find that most of my purchases from them are because I feel sorry for them and so buy my tubes (but never tires!) or something from them to shop local rather than Amazon.

There are a few really amazing, small shops though. But by and large, shops have little to no value for the consumer.

2 areas of bike retail doing very well. Boutique(like AboveCategory) and service(like Vecchio's)... The standard Bike Village, their days are numbered, IMHO.

OBTW-Jim still does well with Waterford/Gunnar/Moots..frames then bikes built there. No bikes or wheels outta boxes.

[bcroslin]

The thing they cant do is start "bro-ing" out tons of deals on service. They need to back up their service with good attitudes and endless knowledge. Make it a service worth paying for. Otherwise, you end up working on your buddy's buddy's buddy's bike for free all the time.

they both have years of LBS experience so they understand that really well. the only bro that gets a deal is me. :hello:

[Dustin]

Trek/Giant get a bigger cut of the margin.

More headaches for the dealer.

Same price to the customer.


Exactly!

So far, seems like this hybrid model really only helps Trek/Giant.

It's not truly potentially disruptive the way Canyon is, where the consumer stands to get a quality bike at a significant savings (and with a significant decrease in service after purchase).

[jlwdm]

This is fantastic news for consumers. It may not make ye olde tyme bike riders happy as they get nostalgic about the "way things used to be" and talk about brands of yesteryear like Serotta, but really traditional bike shops add little value. I find that most of my purchases from them are because I feel sorry for them and so buy my tubes (but never tires!) or something from them to shop local rather than Amazon.

There are a few really amazing, small shops though. But by and large, shops have little to no value for the consumer.

I disagree with you.

I know a lot of traditional bike shops that add great value. I would not be as interested in cycling if it was not for some great people at great shops.

But I guess based on most of your first sentence you were just trying to get a reaction anyway.

Jeff

[jlwdm]

I think there are lots of businesses who can survive with great knowledge and service.

I am into audio/video (from time to time) as well as bikes. I bought a new house in 2014 with a media room. I talked to a local audio store about checking out the surround sound system to make sure everything was working at its best. I was told I was too far across town and they did not know any installers that would go to my house. It was about 30 miles, but I expected to pay charges for time.

So I contacted an audio/video company that came out and checked out the system. One sub was not working but they thought it sounded good. I thought it sounded terrible.

To get things done right I called my audio guys in AZ as I have complete faith in them. I ordered equipment from them and they flew to TX for two days and everything is perfect with my media room and my home office audio system.

It can be frustrating with bike shops and audio stores and so forth but you just have to find the right people. Fortunately I see a lot of great bike shops in the different states I frequent.

Jeff

[KWalker]

The LBS has been dead for years people are just starting to take notice.

Why would they still survive in the internet age?

Rarely do they have any knowledge you can't obtain online. Many repairs are really easy for even the slightly knowledgeable cyclist. Lets call these tier 1 repairs- replace the chain, clean the bike, change a flat, basic installs.

Tier 2 might be slightly more challenging stuff- cabling the bike, truing a wheel, etc.

Tier 3 requires specialized tools or experience- wheel builds, repacking/pressing in bearings, trimming steerers, bleeding brakes.

Of the different types of riders I know (mainly competitive road/mtb or guys that put in lots of miles even if they don't race) all can perform tier 1 and 90% tier 2. Tier 3 stuff costs money so most avoid it unless they have to, or buy the tools and do it solo/have their team shop do it.

Another add-on to that is a good personal example I recently experienced. I needed carbon brake pads. My LBS had Enve pads for $45 a set. This is more than standard retail, $15 more than Amazon. Moreover, my wheel manufacturer recommends SS Black Prince.

I walk in, notice Enves, ask if I can order the SS pads. After trying to lecture me about how the Enves are so much better. But, I want to honor my warranty, so the employee goes on a tangent about horrible the wheel company is, a bunch of nonsense. He's also 100lbs overweight, doesn't ride, and has no demonstrable knowledgeable about how the pads perform regardless.

I left with no pads, went home, and go 4 Black Prince shipped via Amazon Prime for $40. No hassle, no b/s, no waiting. What was I paying that premium for? $15 isn't going to make or break that shop even if I buy 100 sets.

That's the kind of experience a lot of people get when dealing with limited warranty that often isn't priced very well. I understand why this could be as I worked in a shop briefly and realized the margins are pretty low and working through distributors limits options and pricing, but at the end of the day the consumer isn't going to sympathize about supply chain costs and issues.

That extends often to bike fits, bike purchases, etc. The shop remains open to serve customers for tier 1 repairs, their once every 5 years bike purchase (usually not a high margin or high cost bike) and the random person that cannot perform tier 2 or tier 3 repairs or installs. Only so many places can do that if they're not riding some hipster/social media wave or putting a lot of money into staying relevant with those that are making frequent and/or high dollar purchases which requires severe bro discounts, ability to get exclusive items fast, and let's be honest- lots of locals who have simply decided that the shop is THE place to go.

[sg8357]

Giant is still in business ?, who knew.

In my area Lynskey & Waterford are common, last ride 3 Lynskey, 2 Waterford
my Kvale, 1 Trek, one Saeco era Cannondale.

1 in 4 at best, do their own T1 work.

Online sales will be great once Bezos figures out robot customers.
Uber drivers can't afford nice bikes.

[Dustin]

I think there are lots of businesses who can survive with great knowledge and service.



I am into audio/video (from time to time) as well as bikes. I bought a new house in 2014 with a media room. I talked to a local audio store about checking out the surround sound system to make sure everything was working at its best. I was told I was too far across town and they did not know any installers that would go to my house. It was about 30 miles, but I expected to pay charges for time.



So I contacted an audio/video company that came out and checked out the system. One sub was not working but they thought it sounded good. I thought it sounded terrible.



To get things done right I called my audio guys in AZ as I have complete faith in them. I ordered equipment from them and they flew to TX for two days and everything is perfect with my media room and my home office audio system.



It can be frustrating with bike shops and audio stores and so forth but you just have to find the right people. Fortunately I see a lot of great bike shops in the different states I frequent.



Jeff


I'll keep this in mind next time I need to fly in my favorite pro mechanic!

[dustyrider]

This is how Canyon is going to enter the North American market.

When that happens, its really, truly on. I predict they will become the 4th player in the "big 4" and shake it all up.

You may want to do a little more poking around. In the mtb world canyon ain't exactly a shinning example of strong after purchase customer service...

For everyone else. The LBS isn't going anywhere unless they dont have a strong service dept. with short turn over and/or have ignorant ancillary goods purchasers...

[bloody sunday]

These moves will likely put the Performance's of the world out of business (thankfully). I think it sucks when anyone loses their job but that place is the absolute worst of the worst in terms of bike shops. Salesmen that are not cyclists. Awesome. Mechanics that have no idea how to work with internal routing. Awesome.

The service-priority model is a long time in coming. There has been a sizeable grey market, second hand market, deep discount market in cycling for a long time. Smart, savvy shops will market themselves as a club-house style place. Coffee, beer, TV of races while you wait for EXCELLENT bike repair service...wait...this sounds like Jiffy Lube...by golly...


I actually like performance. It's nice place to buy cheap consumables and I know for sure the employees ride.

There's also a Trek Superstore near my office and I love going in there as well. I really hope the LBS doesn't go away - especially when I can't wait for a part to ship

The second part you're describing sounds a lot like a rapha club...

[oldpotatoe]

Giant is still in business ?, who knew.

In my area Lynskey & Waterford are common, last ride 3 Lynskey, 2 Waterford
my Kvale, 1 Trek, one Saeco era Cannondale.

1 in 4 at best, do their own T1 work.

Online sales will be great once Bezos figures out robot customers.
Uber drivers can't afford nice bikes.

2011 but the percentages are essentially the same for 2015.

[GParkes]

I frequent two LBS'. One that is very close to me rarely charges me for things that they should. Owner refuses, so I put $20 in their Thursday night pizza jug, or in their Tour de Cure fund raising jug as the owner has family members with diabetes.

The other shop is further away, but higher end and a little more specific on services. Known the owner 20 years. I send as many people as I can to him, and when he charges me, he charges me below market. Call it "X", I pay him "X + $10.00" in cash so he can do what he chooses.

I'd rather have life long friends to ride with than save a few bucks here and there. I do 90% of my own work, including braze frames, so I don't need a shop, I choose a shop for the personal aspect.

[bobswire]

I frequent two LBS'. One that is very close to me rarely charges me for things that they should. Owner refuses, so I put $20 in their Thursday night pizza jug, or in their Tour de Cure fund raising jug as the owner has family members with diabetes.

The other shop is further away, but higher end and a little more specific on services. Known the owner 20 years. I send as many people as I can to him, and when he charges me, he charges me below market. Call it "X", I pay him "X + $10.00" in cash so he can do what he chooses.

I'd rather have life long friends to ride with than save a few bucks here and there. I do 90% of my own work, including braze frames, so I don't need a shop, I choose a shop for the personal aspect.

I had the same relationship with two shops. One of them I started doing business with in the mid 1980's, The Bike Nook. Bought my first real race bike from Len back then. Sadly both shops are long gone but not from lack of business,both couldn't afford the rise in their respective leases after they ran out here in San Francisco.

[Ken Robb]

I had the same relationship with two shops. One of them I started doing business with in the mid 1980's, The Bike Nook. Bought my first real race bike from Len back then. Sadly both shops are long gone but not from lack of business,both couldn't afford the rise in their respective leases after they ran out here in San Francisco.

When I came to La Jolla in 1970 there were two "variety" stores selling thread, ribbon and similar sundries but they soon closed when their rents were raised. Soon afterward the last auto dealer moved, the linen store closed along with two nice men's stores and a hardware store. I kept watching hopeful new business owners open/close when they realized that even though LJ is a wealthy enclave local folks won't pay stupid-high prices to enable a business owner to pay stupid-high rent. There are now quite a few empty storefronts in the heart of our shopping district awaiting more suckers. Some landlords who have owned their buildings for a long time can probably afford to reduce their rents but those who bought recently at prices based on rent schedules that are proving unrealistic probably can't so there may be some foreclosures soon.

[54ny77]

Len closed up shop? When? That's a bummer.

He built me a set of wheels that lasted a good 15+ years through all manner of riding east & west coast. And they were still going strong when I sold the bike that they were mounted to.

I had the same relationship with two shops. One of them I started doing business with in the mid 1980's, The Bike Nook. Bought my first real race bike from Len back then. Sadly both shops are long gone but not from lack of business,both couldn't afford the rise in their respective leases after they ran out here in San Francisco.

[buddybikes]

Are they going to put whole lineup direct buy? Average Joe/Jane who is above Walmart goes in and buys a comfort/hybrid/mtn bike for 350 to 800. they expect to leave the store touching and feeling the bike. Shop sells the extras for 4x marketup (water bottle, bag, etc). How will this turn online?

What happens if customer orders direct and it doesn't fit? Bring it to the shop that put it together?

Bikes aren't like Ipads...

There is still room for shops if they do it smart. For example - "professional" fit - pay x amount, however if you buy in shop that is deducted from your purchase.

[false_Aest]

What happens if customer orders direct and it doesn't fit? Bring it to the shop that put it together?


This is where the "Devil is in the details." Some of the online programs put that ···· on the dealer. At least one doesn't.

What I'd really like to see is online sales feeding the dealers. In other words, the consumer can make the online impulse purchase and that gets fed to the closest dealer (or consumer can choose if there's several) for assembly and pick-up. There may be a fee linked to those sales for the dealer but that'd be to maintain the system not for the bike co to make $$. If there are returns the lbs and bike co. split responsibility since they're in a symbiotic relationship.

If the goal is conversions (turning clicks into $$) then this would probably rock. If the goal is to just make the bike co. $$, probably not the way to go.

[fuzzalow]

To get things done right I called my audio guys in AZ as I have complete faith in them. I ordered equipment from them and they flew to TX for two days and everything is perfect with my media room and my home office audio system.

It can be frustrating with bike shops and audio stores and so forth but you just have to find the right people. Fortunately I see a lot of great bike shops in the different states I frequent.

What you describe here is exceptional service bordering on the insane. Great that you get or have no issue being invoiced for this kind of service. But it is irrelevant to the topic matter at hand. But it does make for interesting conversation so it's something else to hear about what was done for you.

I'm an audio geek but not into media room/home theatre. I'd be interested in knowing what was done and what issues they had to address in a home room environment. Standing waves, phase cancellation, reverb, room resonances - even if they exist in some form are not killers in a home setup. Yours is neither Carnegie Hall or a bad room to hear/do mixes in that you gotta fix because it'll kill you professionally if you don't. But if you're into this enough to to fly guys across the state then I gotta ask about it.

As far as selling direct, sure it'll work but IMO this only creates vertical brand silos which have limited influence/damage to a LBS that effectively covers a wider swath of bicycling & cycling interests and products. Still a tough slog for any independent LBS no matter how you cut it.

[djg21]

This is where the "Devil is in the details." Some of the online programs put that ���� on the dealer. At least one doesn't.

What I'd really like to see is online sales feeding the dealers. In other words, the consumer can make the online impulse purchase and that gets fed to the closest dealer.

This seems to be close to the way it supposedly is going to work. What it can do is free the shop from having to expend money up front to carry a large inventory of higher-priced bikes. Sure some customers initially will want to touch a bike before purchase, but expectations will change as the business model changes and "online" purchasing becomes the norm. It seems that the manufacturers and their regional sales reps also will have to ante up to do demo days and otherwise make bikes available for test rides at bike shops. This seems like it could be a great development for shops and bicycle enthusiasts.

It isn't the low-end consumer bikes that will be an issue, as those are relatively inexpensive and at least a few can be kept in inventory.

[jlwdm]

What you describe here is exceptional service bordering on the insane. Great that you get or have no issue being invoiced for this kind of service. But it is irrelevant to the topic matter at hand. But it does make for interesting conversation so it's something else to hear about what was done for you.

I'm an audio geek but not into media room/home theatre. I'd be interested in knowing what was done and what issues they had to address in a home room environment. Standing waves, phase cancellation, reverb, room resonances - even if they exist in some form are not killers in a home setup. Yours is neither Carnegie Hall or a bad room to hear/do mixes in that you gotta fix because it'll kill you professionally if you don't. But if you're into this enough to to fly guys across the state then I gotta ask about it.

As far as selling direct, sure it'll work but IMO this only creates vertical brand silos which have limited influence/damage to a LBS that effectively covers a wider swath of bicycling & cycling interests and products. Still a tough slog for any independent LBS no matter how you cut it.

Actually it was related to the subject at hand. I had just posted about how many bike shops there are with great service and that I support. It is much more than just the price of a an item at a shop v the internet.

The audio/video service was just another example of good service v bad service in another very personal business. It is not all price. Service can be much more important.

The main thing I was doing was getting rid of all of the DefTech speakers and the existing components including projector and screen. I also added a couple of pair of ceiling speakers for Dolby Atmos. I went with Dynaudio speakers (Excite x38 and Excite x14) that are not really expensive and a couple of REL subs. Changed from a no name 102' screen to a Stewart Studiotek screen.

Years ago I read all of the audio magazines until I ran into this guy in AZ. I have total faith in him so I don't follow a lot of audio/video anymore. He has a great ear and can set up the media room without using meters.

I rarely use the media room as I am almost always at my computer in my home office listening to my audio system or watching the 50" plasma.

I would guess most members of this forum refer buyers to local bike shops with good service. It is very much the same with Audio. I still refer some bike and audio business to places in AZ even though I have been gone for over 7 years. Less than two years ago I had a contact with someone on Ebay from CA who I referred to my audio friend and that has resulted in close to $200,000 in business in that time.

Well run bike shops can make it as there are still lots of people that appreciate good service and will pay for it.

Jeff

[fuzzalow]

Hey jlwdm thanks for the reply. I understand chasing the nth degree in things that we are lucky enough to be able to create obsessions for.

Like you, I mainly listen to a computer-based system for music and watch movies on no system at all through a Roku box. Most of my main stereo gear is still in storage but I brought the Electrocompaniet DAC with me so that I could route FLAC files through it from my Linux workstation/server. FLAC to DAC to Schiit Mjolnir2 out to Genelec powered monitors or a pair of Senn HD600 headphones. Such is the nearfield/headphone existence for apartment life.

Service is key but I'll hedge that most of it is proximity based and rare is the consumer ability or the billing capacity of a vendor allow anyone to travel to service a client. Sure, there's so much money in this great country of ours that it can and does happen - but it is not the norm and any bike shop that might make this any component of their business model I'd wager would find non-contributory margin in that revenue stream.

I agree and support independent LBSs that provide good service, which when anyone discovers good service is extremely difficult to find, is more than happy to pay for it. The industry doesn't help itself by having a lotta ding-heads running bike shops but it is a free enterprise country, so what can you do?

Obligatory shout out to Conrad's NYC Tudor Place for being among the finest LBSs in NYC and my LBS for over 30 years. I always joke that the reason I have been wearing Assos for over 30 years is because way-back-when SW was good at convincing me to buy clothes I couldn't afford!

[djg21]

Hey jlwdm thanks for the reply. I understand chasing the nth degree in things that we are lucky enough to be able to create obsessions for.

Like you, I mainly listen to a computer-based system for music and watch movies on no system at all through a Roku box. Most of my main stereo gear is still in storage but I brought the Electrocompaniet DAC with me so that I could route FLAC files through it from my Linux workstation/server. FLAC to DAC to Schiit Mjolnir2 out to Genelec powered monitors or a pair of Senn HD600 headphones. Such is the nearfield/headphone existence for apartment life.

Service is key but I'll hedge that most of it is proximity based and rare is the consumer ability or the billing capacity of a vendor allow anyone to travel to service a client. Sure, there's so much money in this great country of ours that it can and does happen - but it is not the norm and any bike shop that might make this any component of their business model I'd wager would find non-contributory margin in that revenue stream.

I agree and support independent LBSs that provide good service, which when anyone discovers good service is extremely difficult to find, is more than happy to pay for it. The industry doesn't help itself by having a lotta ding-heads running bike shops but it is a free enterprise country, so what can you do?

Obligatory shout out to Conrad's NYC Tudor Place for being among the finest LBSs in NYC and my LBS for over 30 years. I always joke that the reason I have been wearing Assos for over 30 years is because way-back-when SW was good at convincing me to buy clothes I couldn't afford!

I briefly lived across the street from Conrad's in the early 90s. It was a nice shop.

[fuzzalow]

I briefly lived across the street from Conrad's in the early 90s. It was a nice shop.

Yeah by the early 90's Conrad's would have long completed their second move to Tudor City Place which is where they've been to this day. I don't remember if Conrad was still alive at the point they made their last move but everybody else seen in the shop is pretty much then as now. Excepting the daughters that, of course, have gone on with their own lives.

Conrad was always very kind to me, especially as during the early days from the shop on 47th off Third, I was young, didn't have much money and had a rapt romance for Italian bikes. And in those days, Conrad's was the only place in the city that had top-line Italian bikes. I had heard of the old Kopps in Princeton NJ as a place for Cinellis but that part of NJ for a NYer was foreign territory. To this day I still have 3 Cinelli SuperCorsas.

P.S. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention. The street that runs in front of Conrad's was used as the exterior set for scenes from the DePalma film "Scarface" with Pacino. The scenes where the assassin is lying in wait and tailing the car to blow up the informant to the drug cartel. All streets around the UN.

[e-RICHIE]

I had heard of the old Kopps in Princeton NJ as a place for Cinellis but that part of NJ for a NYer was foreign territory.
Kopp's (when still on John Street) and Conrad's couldn't have been more different from each other. But I loved them both and also owe my presence in the sport and trade to Fred Kuhn. If I hadn't already a liaison with Lenny and Howie at Toga I would have liked to trade with Conrad's. I was also very fond of Sarah who I always thought of as a tante. Businesses like these are gone and we're all the poorer for it.

[djg21]

Yeah by the early 90's Conrad's would have long completed their second move to Tudor City Place which is where they've been to this day. I don't remember if Conrad was still alive at the point they made their last move but everybody else seen in the shop is pretty much then as now. Excepting the daughters that, of course, have gone on with their own lives.

Conrad was always very kind to me, especially as during the early days from the shop on 47th off Third, I was young, didn't have much money and had a rapt romance for Italian bikes. And in those days, Conrad's was the only place in the city that had top-line Italian bikes. I had heard of the old Kopps in Princeton NJ as a place for Cinellis but that part of NJ for a NYer was foreign territory. To this day I still have 3 Cinelli SuperCorsas.

P.S. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention. The street that runs in front of Conrad's was used as the exterior set for scenes from the DePalma film "Scarface" with Pacino. The scenes where the assassin is lying in wait and tailing the car to blow up the informant to the drug cartel. All streets around the UN.

I lived in Tudor City briefly when I first moved to NYC in the summer of 89. I remember driving to the apartment I had rented from a friend (and had never seen) and being psyched to find a bikeshop there. I stayed for a year then made my way to the UWS.