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Dazza
02-11-2016, 03:30 PM
The story of this new Llewellyn frame model with no name (yet) begins a few years ago.

After many years of making lugless and lugged bikes I had by 2006 switched by design and desire to just lugged frame only production.
I like being creative and designing, seeking solutions to making things, which results in a new part or a new frame model. However I soon get restless and after the last major lug project with Dario Pegoretti which was the Cadenzia lugs set for XL or DOO over size tubes with a level top tube I needed to push on.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/llewellyncustombicycles/albums/72157650498412866
Towards the end of 2012 I put together the “Voyageur” project which was my flavour on an integrated Randonneur bike, with stainless bespoke racks, clip on bags (straps are errrr) bringing together all the ideas and features I considered useful and with functionality that had accumulated. That was a big project and the most involved bike project I have undertaken due to the complexity and numerous jig and fixture construction. A good Randonneur bike is many levels more complex than a racing bike. The result was most pleasing for me and for the clients who have paid me their hard earned dollars for this Llewellyn model.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/llewellyncustombicycles/albums/72157634807572631
Meanwhile I do some small casting bike frame design projects but my mind is thinking of the next project and as Nick Cave says

“Most people wait for the muse to turn up. That’s terribly unreliable. I have to sit down and pursue the muse by attempting to work”

An idea of going back to a lugless frame and construction was forming in my mind for some time.
I like lugs, they work superbly, functional and to my and others eyes they have a pleasing aesthetic.
So if I do a lugless frame set, what could it offer that my current model range does not offer or do.
This went circulating around my cranium for some time. Big tubes, funky shapes just for the sake of fashion grates on me somewhat. During spells when I had a slow intermittent cut job on the lathe I would ponder and sketch.
I concluded that the path I would take is big tubes, very big for steel and also some other features and details that compliment the frame set. I am not a believer that stiffer is faster, less power absorbed from the pedal pressure on its way to twisting the rear hub. If it was so, we could easily make frames as stiff as a block of granite.
However some clients desire or have a strong fetish for STIFF. The ideas sat on a side shelf in my cranium, not at the front but visible and within reach and I would kick it every now and then.
Then late 2015 comes a phone call from Dr Brian McLean. Brian and I have known each other for 30 years and worked together on numerous projects while he worked at the Australian Institute of Sport as a cycling bio-mechanist and I as a team mechanic. I was a bit different than the other mechanics as I interacted a lot with the biomechanics and the physiology lab staff. I worked with Brian considerably during my work stints as a national team mechanic while I lived and worked in Germany and Italy. These days Brian now does a lot work with the New Zealand national team as well as private fit ups of clients, including many of clients.
Brian rings me one day and says, “I want to talk to you about a new project for myself, when can I come over for a chat?”
We arrange a time and we chat while sipping a couple cups of Yorkshire tea.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1679/24337556463_d9f645958f_b.jpg

Stay tuned for part 2

Dazza
02-11-2016, 03:51 PM
Brian, says , “I like steel, I want a new bike, I am looking at a new aesthetic and super stiff, because I want to give it a go and see what it is like." (Brian has a Llewellyn Crescendo from 10 years ago)

Dazza (that’s me) “I have been pondering this for the last 12 months and I have some draft ideas in my mind.”

Brian, “How about the new Columbus HSS tube set.”
Now I honestly had to check up on the HSS tube set, I have seen many tube shapes from MS to MAX, to Mega and first used them from the Columbus range circa 1991. So this was a few new shapes. A couple were interesting.

Dazza “OK it is a new range of top and down shaped tubes.”

Much chatting, must pondering by me and we settled on the following Columbus tubes to try out on a prototype frame set

1. 1.5” tapered HT . Not light but accommodates the 1.5” Columbus Grammy Carbon fork.
2. Down tube in the HX shape which is formed from a .6/.45/.6mm wall 44mm diameter tube. That is a big tube for a material that is as stiff as steel.

This the HT end of the Down tube

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1443/24337962823_aeecb270fd_b.jpg

This the BB end of the down tube

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1457/24871502391_7bb799eb20_b.jpg

3. External butted 32.7mm seat tube that will fit 31.6 seat post and allow for a braze on front derailleur mount. I have recently been involved with the correct redesign of a suitable braze on mount to established tolerances so this new part all works in well.
4. Top tube. We pondered on the AW shape from a 31.7 tube, but a fully round tube is better for torsion and I suggested 35mm round. We settled on .65/.45 35mm round single butted, yes single butted.
5. MAX chainstays. A lot of chainstay with these
6. 18mm (.45mm) diameter seat stays. I have these from a special production run Columbus have done.
7. Columbus 1.5” Grammy fork.

Other features decided on was internal rear brake cable through the top tube.
But I will never do internal gear wires. Dead straight cable runs is the only way for ensuring the minimum amount of lost motion in the cables for crisp gear changing. Di2 set up is easy if desired, however Brian is going to use the 9000 series DuraAce mechanical which I consider the best working mechanical groupset ever known to mankind, but the aesthetics of the grey etc, well I am bored with the contemporary fashion of grey on cars, bikes and every new apartment, town house or home currently being built in Australia.

I will not use a clip for the top of the seat tube binder, it is cheap and faster for production but I believe quality bespoke frames deserve better than that. In the past I machined M6 bosses from raw material and brazed them on, this is the simplest and cheapest solution but this time it needed to be a step up from that. Better function and aesthetics and facilitate construction of the frame.
I sat down at the key board and worked up a 3D CAD model of the M5 braze on boss. The boss has frame builder friendly features such as location pin and braze entry hole which will be removed when the key hole slot is cut. Two of these M5 bosses will be used together to give a secure but gentle fastening of the carbon seat post.
Pictures of the 3D boss and how they will look on the frame in a draft 3D assembly.


https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1713/24938510406_5a685a3cef_b.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1624/24337960113_1cea35f2c4_b.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1624/24337960113_1cea35f2c4_b.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1451/24871499891_5036ac0cc9_b.jpg

Stay tuned for part 3

Dazza
02-11-2016, 04:20 PM
Seat post masts were discounted due to the availability of the correct seat tube to fit the criteria and also it achieves little but for an aesthetic and creates many other problems.

The big task ahead was tooling up to make these frames. Many new jig fittings and tube holding blocks to mitre the tubes is required and the big one was the HX shaped DT and the cone shaped head tube mitre.
I figured on a cone shape abrasive set up that needed to fit my existing tool and machine set up.
Many sketches and head scratching, many CAD drawings.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1531/24422099432_fc304a8b65_b.jpg

Then to the Red Room workshop to make a pile of swarf.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1498/23961795780_0ddb6a940e_b.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1660/24448045871_189bdf802a_b.jpg

Made up a fixture to machine the wheel bite facets for much better accuracy on the prototype’s chosen dropouts that fit the MAX chainstay’s bigger tips.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1584/24234842680_824a6cb512_b.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1613/24162628869_3840a450ce_b.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1517/24234844440_9f7bb8b235_b.jpg

New alignment tools for the inspection table. I actually chased .005mm tolerances for kicks and giggles and I did win.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1492/24257319965_9bab7a9457_b.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1557/24231210416_c320287b8d_b.jpg

The processes of the new tools took 5 – 6 weeks of long days and into the evenings but all worked out as intended. Meanwhile the Rapid Proto types arrived for the new seat binder boss

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1616/24384363335_7fd93e01a7_b.jpg

A few tweaks on the drawings and the green go button was pressed to get the tool made to shoot the wax for this lost wax casting part. When production commences I will like all my other castings make these available for other frame builders to obtain and use via my UK and European agent Framebuilding Bicycles. Tubing, Parts, and Tools (http://www.framebuilding.com/)

and in the US via Llewellyn Frame Parts :: Nova Cycles Supply Inc. (http://www.cycle-frames.com/bicycle-frame-tubing/Llewellyn-Frame-Parts/)

The samples bosses in stainless steel and normal steel are being made as I type.

Dazza
02-11-2016, 05:09 PM
Onto the prototype creation.
Brian supplied me his position data and we confirmed the frame design to fit under him.

Then to the workbench

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1534/24598122069_f0edd0e869_b.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1482/24872424891_eebc1403d7_b.jpg


Forming up and cutting tubes, taking notes and sorting out details in the workshop is under way and so far it is all smooth but slow as I find little things to adjust and the process order is sorted.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1489/24872402691_475a243c01_b.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1617/24872405531_9d69fec6cd_b.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1534/24847746752_430cb053c8_b.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1642/24670236300_ca7b87e2d0_b.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1529/24872411701_2ece97e980_b.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1580/24338881903_ec6a8a20dd_b.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1706/24939431006_86e2cecb4e_b.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1580/24338881903_ec6a8a20dd_b.jpg

Dazza
02-11-2016, 05:10 PM
It is the time of the year the little girls and fellas are hatching.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1641/24937095586_61139e5c21_b.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1489/24872402691_475a243c01_b.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1502/24336548393_b7d45c8be7_b.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1487/24336547263_cbb5c808b3_b.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1672/24963397355_1d2cd49002_b.jpg

That is where I am up today, more next week.

Mzilliox
02-11-2016, 05:13 PM
really cool to see the process, thanks for sharing! :beer:

Dazza
02-11-2016, 05:32 PM
really cool to see the process, thanks for sharing! :beer:

As we say here
no worries mate

Dazza
02-11-2016, 05:35 PM
Besides no name for this new model yet

perhaps

Colossus ??

no graphics either

but first the metal work then I ponder the rest

Any ideas out there ?

mwynne
02-11-2016, 06:03 PM
Many fine details! I love the seat binder boss, and MAX chainstays always make me swoon.

rwsaunders
02-11-2016, 06:12 PM
Llewellyn Filetto.

8aaron8
02-11-2016, 11:00 PM
Now I more fully understand the story behind your Flickr page, thanks for sharing!

dubrat
02-12-2016, 01:18 AM
Llewellyn LiscioFiletto

Dazza
02-12-2016, 01:54 AM
Llewellyn LiscioFiletto


weisan
02-12-2016, 06:29 AM
dazza pal, I don't have any name suggestion for you but this is so cool!

I know you been using italian...how' bout using something Aussie this time around.

Dazza
02-12-2016, 03:00 PM
dazza pal, I don't have any name suggestion for you but this is so cool!

I know you been using italian...how' bout using something Aussie this time around.

Italian?

Custodian is a D'Arenberg wine
Crescendo is a music term
Cadenzia is a D'Arenberg wine and a music term
Manorina is a Bell Bird
Voyageur is a French Word
This model is ???????????????
Uluru ? Sounds good but that is a sacred place so I will leave that one
I am lost for a name but it will come

dave thompson
02-12-2016, 03:24 PM
It's stiff? You could call it a Woodie. (American slang term for a stiffie) :eek:

tv_vt
02-12-2016, 04:54 PM
F me, that makes me want to get a lugless steel frame. Love those double seatpost binders.

Someone asked why custom frames cost more, and why you should bother.

Here's your answer. Craftmanship, originality, beauty, built for you and your ideas and wants, ...

rileystylee
02-12-2016, 05:06 PM
Great read this!:beer:

How about the "Llewellyn Cranium"

weisan
02-12-2016, 07:40 PM
Italian?

Custodian is a D'Arenberg wine
Crescendo is a music term
Cadenzia is a D'Arenberg wine and a music term
Manorina is a Bell Bird
Voyageur is a French Word
This model is ???????????????
Uluru ? Sounds good but that is a sacred place so I will leave that one
I am lost for a name but it will come

This tells you everything you need to know about this transplated Texas Asian pumpkin. :D

roguedog
02-13-2016, 09:31 AM
Wow. How have I missed this thread?

So awesome to watch this process and the hatching of something new.

I'll think of names but I think it has yet to reveal itself. Once it's been ridden a few it's name may come to you. Though my only thought was to name after the little hatchling from your pic as it was there at the moment this bike was first coming together.

More. More. Bravo. (Huh. Maybe that be a cool name)

Also, nice to see you back and posting more again.

Dazza
02-13-2016, 01:48 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_water_dragon

Wow. How have I missed this thread?

So awesome to watch this process and the hatching of something new.

I'll think of names but I think it has yet to reveal itself. Once it's been ridden a few it's name may come to you. Though my only thought was to name after the little hatchling from your pic as it was there at the moment this bike was first coming together.

More. More. Bravo. (Huh. Maybe that be a cool name)

Also, nice to see you back and posting more again.

54ny77
02-13-2016, 06:26 PM
Thanks for posting that, it was a great read. I ALWAYS enjoy seeing your bike frame/build pics, and now the stories add to the fun.

roguedog
02-13-2016, 09:16 PM
Oooh.. he/she is quite handsome (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_water_dragon#/media/File:Water_Dragon_001.jpg)

Intellagam or Lesueurii kinda sounds cool.

Climb01742
02-14-2016, 01:05 PM
Very cool. Thanks for sharing the process.

A few names:


MAXimus


Tubus Maximus (homage to Monty Python character in 'Life of Brian' named 'Biggus Dickus')

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K8_jgiNqUc


Audacious (or a geographical twist on it) Ausdacious

mwynne
02-14-2016, 01:28 PM
Like you said, certainly not Uluru, but what about a non-sensitive name in either Anangu or the/one of the traditional languages where you live/work? (Not knowing exactly where you are, I can't really offer a more specific suggestion)

Burnette
02-14-2016, 05:33 PM
I know Dazza workes on trains from his posts here and elsewhere, so I would use them as inspiration for this new "big' bike.

When it comes to trains, I'm partial to steam locomotives. And when you say big steam trains, that means one train, the ALCO 4000 series "Big Boy".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bjrV2rjeSI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yp6OM_hrTUQ

http://www.nps.gov/stea/planyourvisit/bigboy4012.htm

In Australia, there was the AD2069 train that was a big one too:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AD6029

But, I'm partial to the Big Boy. Now, Big Boy isn't a great name for bike. You could use the number 4000 or use a play on words by turning "Locomotive" into "Loco Motion" (spanish, loco = crazy, crazy motion).
You could just call it the "Train".

I'm going to offer Loco Motion and Loco Motive.

shinomaster
02-14-2016, 05:35 PM
Besides no name for this new model yet

perhaps

Colossus ??

no graphics either

but first the metal work then I ponder the rest

Any ideas out there ?

Good name.. When we were kids my cousin named her huge brahma hen Cotton Candy Colossal. Another friend named her brahma hen "Rambo" . I like Rambo, or Colossus.

FlashUNC
02-16-2016, 06:17 PM
Want to plant the tongue firmly in cheek?

The Noodle.

This bike will be many things, but it won't be that.

Dazza
02-18-2016, 06:42 PM
19th Feb 2016
Preparations of tubes and other tasks are done.
Vent holes and some material removal is completed.
https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1470/25117028435_10183a3e33_b.jpg

The cosmetic detail in the seat tube is drilled and filed.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1606/24486372034_fac1c36e2d_b.jpg

The seat tube to top tube receives the usual elaboration just for kicks. A bit better than just a drilled hole and it does not take long.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1566/25117027915_cbf79e5838_b.jpg

I believe that bottle mount reinforcements are a good thing. Considering the tube wall is only .45mm and also a large tube which flexes as the 800 grams of bottle wobbles about and bottle cage are prone to being clobbered in crashes then the chances of torn or cracked tubes is reduced. I know many will argue that there is no need, but I have seen many frames from other makers have this problem. It takes a bit of extra time to do but it is a detail that I think has merit.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1555/25117023425_e908b6a015_b.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1611/25090697286_390783d148_b.jpg

More vents and material removal , this time the BB shell.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1580/24490186363_90acbd0365_b.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1599/24821401460_fdd5e60d9a_b.jpg

I fabricate the chainstay bridge now so it is ready later. Many cast BB shells come with a small bridge between extended chainstay ports. This bridge is usually about 10mm from the BB shell and is totally useless but for punter perception. It is much better to fit a bridge as far away as possible from the BB shell towards the dropouts to have any real lateral bracing effect. I fabricate my bridges from .5mm wall 18mm diameter tube and then it is cut with a curved relief is which is a bit of tube offcut brazed into place. The relief allows one to fit the bridge considerably further down the chainstays. Actually 351 to 353mm from the rear axle but still facilitate easy wheel removal with 25 or 28mm tyres.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1711/24486345944_ee7449cc23_b.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1511/24749355969_9980151f8d_b.jpg



It takes more time to do things like this, but I am not trying to drum down the labour/time costs in each frame set. The frame set must have the details and methods I desire, the price has to reflect this. I could do less detail and thus a lower $ price would follow but I believe a quality bespoke frame set should set the bar level high. Let the metal work and ride quality speak, rather than graphics coupled with over whelming marketing dross. A sole builder has to do it all, emails, marketing, paper work, sweep the floor, clean the machines, fix worn out bearings in the bench sander, and speak to their clients and make the product and pack for despatch and fix and sort the long overdue updates on the website. The time and resources it takes to create a new frame set is exactly the same for a production of 10 frame sets or 100 -200 each year. Many tasks of the frame making gig take the same amount of time and resources for the sole proprietor as it takes the big corporations with the factory. That makes it difficult for a timely breakeven point and back into profit, coupled with the real need to make a living wage. I could write some marketing spiel and pretend it is all just pure gloss, however, stuff all that nonsense, I will admit it is tiring and wearing after many decades, and maybe I aim too high for my own good and some things are let slide such as blogs, forum and website updates, glossy bike pictures for the forums, because there is the next order to complete for a patiently waiting customer and then the phone rings and I am nursing a sore twisted ankle ………………... Making bicycle frames is my chosen path of professional expression. It is not my hobby! I want to knock off and do other things. However when I go belly up when my mortal term is done, I would like to think that the onlookers will speak about my good work rather than look at the shortcuts. I want to be a craftsman.

Dazza
02-18-2016, 06:43 PM
A new correctly dimensioned front derailleur boss is on the market now organised by a frame material supplier in Europe. Those with grey hairs will recognise it is very similar in appearance to the Suntour boss from the late 1980’s. I tuned up a bar of steel to use as a former to open the fit a wee bit from 31.8mm to 32.7mm for the Columbus external butted seat tubes I am using.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1536/24486360844_64df679ebd_b.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1627/24490178703_a8e0185ee1_b.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1603
/24821389220_2ef3d7be7a_b.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1476/25090687396_3919049215_b.jpg

Off course for me it is stainless steel so the derailleur mount bolt does not mar the paint. Neat and tidy is what I desire, but it must work properly.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1596/25090686896_ac3450f06e_b.jpg

Another complication is how I do the internal rear brake cable routing. I see many builders drilling holes and poking a brass tube through and just brazing it and a wee bit of filing to finish it off. Again I have seen many other builder’s frames fail using this method. One such problem I saw last year was an almost new imported frame that had a tube fail from the quick fit tube braze over. The tube piercing creates a huge weak spot and stress riser thus I will only do internal brake routing in top tubes with an external steel reinforcement brazed over the assembly. Otherwise it is fraught with peril.
I machine the parts out of stainless steel, annealed brass tube connection, stainless steel cover reinforcement plate is shaped and filed to fit snuggly into place and all is silver brazed.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1720/25023738951_6075483cb5_b.jpg

The cable casing terminates at each end, much better for Campy single pivot brakes as there is no cable casing creep to pull the calliper over. Also no rattles!

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1472/24749343319_4ac3871dea_b.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1718/25023734751_0ddc8085a2_b.jpg

Later I will give it the full polish treatment.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1468/24486347324_36f343a1aa_b.jpg

I rig everything up and plot the curves and entry points to ensure all is graceful and works well.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1486/24998808352_e1e4bc3b65_b.jpg

I prepare the rear bridge, the curved design matches the shape of the frame. I braze a stainless washer on the brake mount face, just for neatness of paint and I mill/skim the mount surface to ensure all is square. I break the edges and sand it all over to ensure a good paint finish due to the cast surface.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1594/24490161123_51ce9049e1_b.jpg

As I type a package of the special silver braze rod I used 10-15 years ago for filleting has arrived. 1 kg of this 55% silver content rod costs $1700 aud!
That is all for this week, I had many interruptions and I am a few weeks behind where considering the Bristol show is approaching.

weisan
02-18-2016, 07:37 PM
Dazza pal, I am actually more intrigued by your hand/fingers... :D

Very adept and skillful indeed.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1594/24490161123_51ce9049e1_b.jpg

Dazza
02-19-2016, 03:07 PM
Colossus is still in front at this stage.
It has been 10 years since I was fillet brazing frames, so when my preferred special brew of silver rods for fillet brazing (Astro 165) arrived I made up a test/practice joint to re-acquaint myself with the technique. I did the full suck in method on half the joint and the outside only fill.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1644/25108014786_792027ea81_b.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1508/24838714940_430464f03e_b.jpg



https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1569/24503669694_e066e9cf0e_b.jpg

Dazza
02-19-2016, 03:14 PM
Colossus is still in front at this stage.
It has been 10 years since I was fillet brazing frames, so when my preferred special brew of silver rods for fillet brazing (Astro 165) arrived I made up a test/practice joint to re-acquaint myself with the technique. I did the full suck in method on half the joint and the outside only fill.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1644/25108014786_792027ea81_b.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1508/24838714940_430464f03e_b.jpg

I was a wee rusty and I also quickly finished off the joint to get used to the file and sand co-ordination.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1569/24503669694_e066e9cf0e_b.jpg

mike mcdermid
02-20-2016, 03:18 AM
The story of this new Llewellyn frame model with no name (yet) begins a few years ago.

After many years of making lugless and lugged bikes I had by 2006 switched by design and desire to just lugged frame only production.
I like being creative and designing, seeking solutions to making things, which results in a new part or a new frame model. However I soon get restless and after the last major lug project with Dario Pegoretti which was the Cadenzia lugs set for XL or DOO over size tubes with a level top tube I needed to push on.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/llewellyncustombicycles/albums/72157650498412866
Towards the end of 2012 I put together the “Voyageur” project which was my flavour on an integrated Randonneur bike, with stainless bespoke racks, clip on bags (straps are errrr) bringing together all the ideas and features I considered useful and with functionality that had accumulated. That was a big project and the most involved bike project I have undertaken due to the complexity and numerous jig and fixture construction. A good Randonneur bike is many levels more complex than a racing bike. The result was most pleasing for me and for the clients who have paid me their hard earned dollars for this Llewellyn model.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/llewellyncustombicycles/albums/72157634807572631
Meanwhile I do some small casting bike frame design projects but my mind is thinking of the next project and as Nick Cave says

“Most people wait for the muse to turn up. That’s terribly unreliable. I have to sit down and pursue the muse by attempting to work”

An idea of going back to a lugless frame and construction was forming in my mind for some time.
I like lugs, they work superbly, functional and to my and others eyes they have a pleasing aesthetic.
So if I do a lugless frame set, what could it offer that my current model range does not offer or do.
This went circulating around my cranium for some time. Big tubes, funky shapes just for the sake of fashion grates on me somewhat. During spells when I had a slow intermittent cut job on the lathe I would ponder and sketch.
I concluded that the path I would take is big tubes, very big for steel and also some other features and details that compliment the frame set. I am not a believer that stiffer is faster, less power absorbed from the pedal pressure on its way to twisting the rear hub. If it was so, we could easily make frames as stiff as a block of granite.
However some clients desire or have a strong fetish for STIFF. The ideas sat on a side shelf in my cranium, not at the front but visible and within reach and I would kick it every now and then.
Then late 2015 comes a phone call from Dr Brian McLean. Brian and I have known each other for 30 years and worked together on numerous projects while he worked at the Australian Institute of Sport as a cycling bio-mechanist and I as a team mechanic. I was a bit different than the other mechanics as I interacted a lot with the biomechanics and the physiology lab staff. I worked with Brian considerably during my work stints as a national team mechanic while I lived and worked in Germany and Italy. These days Brian now does a lot work with the New Zealand national team as well as private fit ups of clients, including many of clients.
Brian rings me one day and says, “I want to talk to you about a new project for myself, when can I come over for a chat?”
We arrange a time and we chat while sipping a couple cups of Yorkshire tea.

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Stay tuned for part 2

Yorkshire tea in straya....how quaint

soulspinner
02-20-2016, 09:14 AM
Your attention to detail with regard to internal routing is a perfect example of why I revere your work. A steel bike that will function perfectly for life. Gorgeous as well. Love all that polishing (hard work)!

weightshift
02-29-2016, 02:59 PM
I just wanted to say that I am greatly enjoying this thread, and thanks for the evolving story behind the process.

dave thompson
02-29-2016, 03:31 PM
Threads like this makes us appreciate the skill, talent, experience and passion of a talented builder.

Black Dog
02-29-2016, 07:41 PM
Great work. Truely.

How about Macro for the name.

Dazza
03-02-2016, 03:43 PM
thanks to every one for the nice compliments
updates to follow soon.

Dazza
03-03-2016, 05:19 PM
3 March 2016
Then it was time to cook the frame set up. Clean all joints, now this takes more time than many would care to think it does. Check all the fits with a fresh eye and file touch here and there is required. Load the tubes into the jig all fluxed up. Tack and then remove to the inspection table. I don’t take many pictures of brazing and such like (however in other albums there are plenty) because I keep on task and concentrate. A false move, a wee mistake can be fatal to good alignment or even destroy the materials, either of which is a depressing thought. When one puts a lot of detail content into a frame set it can mean many days of work going belly up if a mistake is made, a wee bit less tragic for builders of frames with less labour content but none the less, for any builder a stuff up is a big heart ache and many days of $ earning and materials can be lost. Oh, yeah, I have been there too often!
The braze up went as expected, large thin tubes that exceed the 30 to 1 ration of diameter to wall by a long way distort a fair bit. Now I in all genuine frankness, my maximum tolerance for HT to ST tolerance is a total of .30mm from one end of the HT alignment rod to the other end. That is .30mm (.012”) over a span of 400mm. (15 ½”) Not many builder’s speak of tolerances, because they don’t have any or don’t care. From HT to Dropout face is also .30mm.

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One cannot do any cold setting of a main frame triangle with such large thin tubes, the frame will crumple before it yields. Meaning, grunt it back into alignment. However I had anticipated this and I have machined the head set alignment inserts with .15mm eccentricity. I fit them and rotate them inside the head tube till the fork axis (alignment rod) is inside the tolerance. I aimed at .10mm., then brazed them in permanently and the end result was .15mm. Happy chappie am I ! After I brazed the main triangle I did some fillet finishing work because it easier and safer to do before the stays are added.

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More jigs had to be made to fit around the big tubes. This takes a day here and day there, first to think it out and then make the thingies! Simple lathe and mill work. One such item is this jiggy to do the DT braze on bosses.

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This little boss was the first part I designed by 3D CAD ten years ago. This Llewellyn part is used by many builders around the world since then. Naturally for me it is cast in stainless steel to avoid corrosion from battery acid perspiration.

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Dazza
03-03-2016, 05:40 PM
Another half day was making the unusual size clamp for the seat tube which is used to hold the frame while the key hole slot is cut with a slitting saw in the little mill.

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Bridges are brazed in and all is checked with a 28mm tyre.

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Dazza
03-03-2016, 05:56 PM
A parcel of the first samples of the M5 seat binder boss arrived this week from LongShen in Taiwan.
Shirley and Allan have been in the business of making castings for frame builders for many years and I visited them in 2005 and have a good working relationship with them for over 10 years.

The Llewellyn team make a cuppa and study the new parts


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The location holes are drilled for the pins on the bosses

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Makes location simple and accurate.

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Cook them up and bingo

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Back to some details. I am not a fan of those clear adhesive patches used to try and prevent cable casings rubbing the paint off. Most owners never change these pads until they notice that the casing has rubbed through the plastic patch and chaffed the paint, then it is too late. Might as well leave them off

Or

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Dazza
03-03-2016, 06:09 PM
The fork is not to be forgotten. I am using the Columbus Grammy 1.5” fork to start with. The fork's crown race seat needs some tidy up and I will be chatting to Columbus about this.

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I am working on ideas for a new fork crown using MAX fork blades for a steel fork option, which I really think would be super. However that is a fair way down the path before it might or could eventuate. There is not a crown available and I am yet to study for a suitable steerer. If the fork is not designed correctly then it will be very heavy due to the big steerer tube and the size of the crown to wrap around the steerer. I would need $6,000 usd to develop the new crown then make the casting tools and bring to production a suitable crown. (which would I would sell to other builders to recoup the costs) I don’t have the resources this year to do this. Sigh! Meanwhile I sketch the ideas .............

Dazza
03-03-2016, 06:24 PM
So all is brazed up and then the final finish work is done.

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The new front derailleur braze that I did some critical dimension work for a chap in Europe is super. I give it the polish, no paint marring. I like all to be neat and tidy for many years of riding.

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More finish work, slow and careful. Takes a lot more time and effort to do this compared to TIG.
Good TIG work requires a lot of skill, but the reason it works well is it is fast and zero finish work. I like fillets for structural reasons and also for the aesthetic, which is well admired.

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Dazza
03-03-2016, 06:28 PM
All the metal work is done.

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Stay tuned for pics of the painted frame, but that is some weeks away.
Then the full assembly of the bike with DuraAce 9000 and off with this bike to the Bristol Bespoke show.
Oh and yes I am taking orders for this frame to answer the questions put to me of late, but only a limited number each year. About ten each year, I have 5 spots left for this year. Some seem keen and this frame is yet to roll down the road!






Colossus can transform his body tissue into an organic, steel-like substance

Colossus was the world's first electronic, digital, programmable computer
Colossus worked using vacuum tubes. At Bletchley Park mathematician Max Newman had a problem

ColossusThe Colossus of Rhodes was one of the Seven Wonders

Peter B
03-03-2016, 10:38 PM
<snip>

[QUOTE=Dazza;1929411]All the metal work is done.

Oh and yes I am taking orders for this frame to answer the questions put to me of late, but only a limited number each year. About ten each year, I have 5 spots left for this year. Some seem keen and this frame is yet to roll down the road![/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]


Looks like time for me to get back in the queue.

I'll be sending an email Dazza.

soulspinner
03-04-2016, 08:13 AM
:hello::hello::hello:

Dazza
04-03-2016, 02:27 AM
come and say G'day

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soulspinner
04-03-2016, 06:16 AM
come and say G'day

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Teaser shots are great !

Keith A
04-03-2016, 07:36 PM
Now let's see some more :)

Dazza
04-08-2016, 06:43 AM
Now let's see some more :)

Dr Brian McLean is experimenting with deeper position so a zero set back seat post is fitted. The seat is fitted 10mm higher than will be ridden, this is to keep it all looking smooth as the bike is on display to avoid scratches. We are off on the big bird tonight, so I will out of contact for a few weeks.

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and with deeper rims

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Keith A
04-08-2016, 07:23 AM
Thanks Dazza...that's a great looking bike. Congrats on the fine work.

soulspinner
04-08-2016, 08:07 AM
When I win 65 mill tonite in lotto I want a bike from Dazza and a bike from Dave Kirk...

tumbler
04-08-2016, 03:32 PM
Very, very nice work.

hainy
04-22-2016, 06:14 PM
I am investigating my next custom steel and while I love lugs I do like the look of these larger tubes. I suppose as it will be a 60th birthday present I am not looking for an overly stiff frame that will rattle the fillings. Is it possible to build a bike like this and still be a comfortable ride.

Cheers

Hainy

Dazza
04-24-2016, 01:40 AM
I am investigating my next custom steel and while I love lugs I do like the look of these larger tubes. I suppose as it will be a 60th birthday present I am not looking for an overly stiff frame that will rattle the fillings. Is it possible to build a bike like this and still be a comfortable ride.

Cheers

Hainy

Just back from the Bristol Bespoke show early this morning and had the 5 hour death like jet lag sleep. I find this a difficult question to answer as what is a comfortable ride and how is it measured? If one uses more material, it will be stiffer, if one increases the size of the tubes, it will be stiffer. It is a mistake to follow a contemporary aesthetic pattern and lose the needs and or function of the bike, unless the aesthetic need is the first necessary need. We need to chat more about you and the riding your bike will be intended for.

hainy
04-27-2016, 06:16 AM
Thanks Dazza,

I think you have answered my question. This wouldn't be a frame for me.

Cheers

Hainy